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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Post by biggydx on Oct 2, 2018 16:16:53 GMT
For example, if you have a Templar companion in the game who is morally good, while you stand diametrically opposed to them on the morality scale, should they be given the opportunity to leave your party if you do morally disreputable things? To me, that type of system provides better immersion and role playing opportunities. Your companions shouldn't always just go along with you for the sake of doing so. They've got their own predefined morals and ethics to consider, and your actions should affect how they wish to interact with you.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 2, 2018 18:29:56 GMT
I'd be happy if they left because they didn't agree with something I did. For example, back in DA2 it surprised me that no one refused to work with Hawke if they handed Fenris back to his old master.
Alistair refused to stay with you if you spared Loghain and I thought that was fair enough. Dorian will actually walk out if your approval is low enough and you end up punching him. This results in a different conversation in Trespasser than if he stayed with the Inquisitor throughout the main game.
I respect characters more for sticking to their principles even if I don't agree with them rather than following you regardless, although it was easier to understand their determination to stick it out against Corypheus no matter how much they personally despised the Inquisitor. On the whole though, other than the Alistair example, I tend to play morally upright characters so that Templar would be pretty safe with me.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 2, 2018 19:32:07 GMT
I want companions to be their own person. If the choices I make are unacceptable to them, they're free to leave. I'm free to think they're being a self-absorbed myopic ass for leaving. [edit] I suppose I should be clear that I think there is a difference between liking the mechanic from a player standpoint and respecting the NPC character for their choice. I don't at all respect Alistair for his choice in DAO, but I like that the devs allowed it to happen.
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thats1evildude
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Post by thats1evildude on Oct 2, 2018 19:35:23 GMT
If the cause of the disagreement is sufficient, I have no problem with it. Companions shouldn't quit if I drank their orange juice.
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Finvola
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Kittybass
Posts: 561 Likes: 1,891
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Finvola on Oct 2, 2018 19:46:51 GMT
Wynne leaves your party in DAO if you defile the ashes.
I'd be fine with it. I still remember that save when Wynne left. I wanted to unlock the Reaver ability and knew she would leave as a result of my actions.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 2, 2018 20:14:53 GMT
As general rule I preferred the friendship/rivalry approach but if a choice crosses a fundamental redline for a companion I have no problem with them quitting.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 2, 2018 20:23:33 GMT
While I generally like some malleability in Companions (otherwise, what's the point of divergent character development from Companion Quests?), they ultimately should have their own personal limits of they will or will not except. I can see some exceptions, if they have been made more Idealistic and Diplomatic versus more Cynical and Pragmatic, but for the most part I want them to oppose me if my choices run counter to their deepest beliefs. Hell, I miss the days of Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect 2 when Companions could fight each other, as well as the PC, if they couldn't get along. Isn't experiencing the consequences of our choices the whole point of role playing games?
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 2, 2018 20:34:02 GMT
No problem. If I'm regularly doing heinous things then I don't expect your average "good" person to tolerate it, unless they've got some other compelling reason to be there (duty, secret spy stuff, family). And even then everybody has a line they won't cross.
Fact is, your whole party should've turned on you for selling Fenris back into slavery, with the exception of Anders and maaaybe your sibling. The fact that Wynne and Leliana can help you slaughter a whole camp of Dalish elves, and sit back and let you bargain with slavers in exchange for blood magic, is more than little twisted.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Oct 2, 2018 20:47:03 GMT
Looks like I'm on the other side here. I think it's incredibly stupid that Oghren, Sera and whoever else will just up and leave because they don't like you. It's the end of the world and I made you mad? Oooh diddums. GET OVER IT. That's always how I've felt. I much prefer them to stay out of duty, but hate you. Give me an argument. Give me snark. Let them mutter under their breath as banter and make an alternative cutscene (like Cass being drunk in the tavern). I think that's much better than just leaving and not being in the game anymore.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,672 Likes: 6,654
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Post by Gileadan on Oct 2, 2018 20:56:01 GMT
It should depend on the character in question.
If a companion is a total yes/wo/man, they should be following you around no matter what you do. They might fret and quake and whimper in protest, but they should not leave.
A more principled character should, if you violate their principles enough, confront you about it and if you keep doing it, eventually leave.
A really vicious character should threaten you to quit that shit and if you keep ignoring that warning, try to murder you in your sleep.
However, big caveat: it also greatly depends on what's at stake in the overall storyline. If it's something along the lines of "the world will end if we don't work together", then pretty much no character should leave unless they really don't care about their continued existence.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 2, 2018 20:58:25 GMT
Looks like I'm on the other side here. I think it's incredibly stupid that Oghren, Sera and whoever else will just up and leave because they don't like you. It's the end of the world and I made you mad? Oooh diddums. GET OVER IT. That's always how I've felt. I much prefer them to stay out of duty, but hate you. Give me an argument. Give me snark. Let them mutter under their breath as banter and make an alternative cutscene (like Cass being drunk in the tavern). I think that's much better than just leaving and not being in the game anymore. Oh come on, history is loaded with soldiers who deserted, mutinied or defected because they honestly believed their leader(s) to incompetent and/or just as bad, if not worse than the opposition. Given some of the characters I've played, they would have been right .
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luketrevelyan
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,391 Likes: 4,558
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Post by luketrevelyan on Oct 2, 2018 21:07:29 GMT
I like when companions express their feelings, disagree with my actions, or even leave if they feel necessary. It makes them feel much more realistic than when they just praise your every action. Those have been some of my favorite moments in BioWare games. Sometimes it is even a wake up call - did I really want to do that?
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Oct 2, 2018 21:11:03 GMT
Looks like I'm on the other side here. I think it's incredibly stupid that Oghren, Sera and whoever else will just up and leave because they don't like you. It's the end of the world and I made you mad? Oooh diddums. GET OVER IT. That's always how I've felt. I much prefer them to stay out of duty, but hate you. Give me an argument. Give me snark. Let them mutter under their breath as banter and make an alternative cutscene (like Cass being drunk in the tavern). I think that's much better than just leaving and not being in the game anymore. Oh come on, history is loaded with soldiers who deserted, mutinied or defected because they honestly believed their leader(s) to incompetent and/or just as bad, if not worse than the opposition. Given some of the characters I've played, they would have been right . True, and in the desecration of the Urn that's a valid option for Wynne and Leliana. As for the rest, I love some snark and the rivalry in DA2 was fun to watch. I'd rather have more content than just have them leave. Also, most of these guys have been picked by the protag as companions because they're brave and fearless. Oghren swears to die by your side then has a hissy fit and leaves? Really? I thought better of him than that. Rivalry Oghren would've been amazing.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 2, 2018 21:27:03 GMT
Looks like I'm on the other side here. I think it's incredibly stupid that Oghren, Sera and whoever else will just up and leave because they don't like you. It's the end of the world and I made you mad? Oooh diddums. GET OVER IT. That's always how I've felt. I much prefer them to stay out of duty, but hate you. Give me an argument. Give me snark. Let them mutter under their breath as banter and make an alternative cutscene (like Cass being drunk in the tavern). I think that's much better than just leaving and not being in the game anymore. To me, it's more about the idea of "sure, we're saving the world, but what kind of world will be left [as a result of these choices]?" Granted, it's a bit less clear in some situations, because you can lose approval for seemingly small things. But characters like Sera and Dorian that have clear views on morality? Yes, I can see them leaving for those reasons. "I can't in good conscience follow such a person." But them continuing to follow, they're giving tacit approval of those actions.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Oct 2, 2018 21:31:58 GMT
Looks like I'm on the other side here. I think it's incredibly stupid that Oghren, Sera and whoever else will just up and leave because they don't like you. It's the end of the world and I made you mad? Oooh diddums. GET OVER IT. That's always how I've felt. I much prefer them to stay out of duty, but hate you. Give me an argument. Give me snark. Let them mutter under their breath as banter and make an alternative cutscene (like Cass being drunk in the tavern). I think that's much better than just leaving and not being in the game anymore. To me, it's more about the idea of "sure, we're saving the world, but what kind of world will be left [as a result of these choices]?" Granted, it's a bit less clear in some situations, because you can lose approval for seemingly small things. But characters like Sera and Dorian that have clear views on morality? Yes, I can see them leaving for those reasons. "I can't in good conscience follow such a person." But them continuing to follow, they're giving tacit approval of those actions. I get that, but doesn't it feel a little lacking? Stay a while longer and tell me why you're mad, try and prove your point or change my mind. Show disapproval in a quest or have a cutscene before you go.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 2, 2018 21:51:41 GMT
To me, it's more about the idea of "sure, we're saving the world, but what kind of world will be left [as a result of these choices]?" Granted, it's a bit less clear in some situations, because you can lose approval for seemingly small things. But characters like Sera and Dorian that have clear views on morality? Yes, I can see them leaving for those reasons. "I can't in good conscience follow such a person." But them continuing to follow, they're giving tacit approval of those actions. I get that, but doesn't it feel a little lacking? Stay a while longer and tell me why you're mad, try and prove your point or change my mind. Show disapproval in a quest or have a cutscene before you go. Maybe they don't always have the budget and resources for said cutscenes?
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Post by themikefest on Oct 2, 2018 21:53:13 GMT
I don't have a problem with a companion leaving. If they don't like the way I do things, ****'em. Next playthrough I won't waste my time recruiting them.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Oct 2, 2018 22:00:42 GMT
I get that, but doesn't it feel a little lacking? Stay a while longer and tell me why you're mad, try and prove your point or change my mind. Show disapproval in a quest or have a cutscene before you go. Maybe they don't always have the budget and resources for said cutscenes? They had the budget for way too many zones, too many companions, and 200 hours of gameplay. Now with DAO that would be a good point, but there are so many chatty scenes in it I'm sure they could've added another, or at least some banter. I just found Oghren's leaving to be out of character and poorly executed.
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Post by isaidlunch on Oct 2, 2018 22:02:44 GMT
The only companion where I felt like it went too far was with Anders. Helping mages is literally all he cares about, yet you can spend the whole game sending them back to the Gallows, making them tranquil, or murdering them. You can even dob him in to Cullen while he watches and he barely reacts!
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melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,942 Likes: 24,285
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Post by melbella on Oct 3, 2018 0:53:04 GMT
I don't have an issue with companions leaving if I do something so offensive they can't take being around me anymore so long as I get the same option. If a companion does something I find crosses the line, I want the option to kick them out. We can do this with Anders (Act 2 quest) and Sera (any time, actually). Morrigan too, in DAO, though we can boot her at any point by picking the right dialogue.
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xerrai
N3
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Post by xerrai on Oct 3, 2018 3:06:25 GMT
I mostly liked how they handled companions in DAI. With the exception of Solas, Varric and Cassandra (and Vivienne if recruited) who are there for thier own personal feelings of responsibility, most other companions have the potential to leave you if you go too far in earning thier disapproval. But I like how that disapproval can be mitigated if the player goes through the trouble of either talking to them or completing certain side quests. Gives a nice sense of reward for that effort I put in. There were some characters who were set in thier mindset and beliefs, and those who had thier beliefs change or alter overtime due to personal crisis.
Still though, it could be improved upon: How about allowing use to kick companions out? As of right now only Sera had that option, and they could even have consequences for it for certain companions. For example, if I kicked out Vivienne the Inquisition could have suffered a massive influence reduction, war table operations, or additional difficulties durring certain main quests.
And even though I approve of allowing the player to mitigate disapproval for some companions, there should be some rare options that instantly make a companion want to leave you regardless of the approval you had with that companion previously.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 3, 2018 4:47:54 GMT
I would like it to alter the relationship between the characters, but to see a character outright go. No, I rather not that happen because then we will have another Mass Effect 3 "Liara Situation" where all the important dialogue is dumped onto one character because they will always be there. I cannot see BioWare recording important dialogue multiple times and written into multiple different characters for a what if scenario because then it hamstrings the other characters and content. It happened as well with Mass Effect 3 where the majority of returning characters are just short minor insignificant cameos because they might be alive or not and have to have an alternate character fill those roles as well.
There is only so much time they can make a game and having all kinds of what if scenarios will make a game shorter and after people complaining that Dragon Age: Inquisition's critical path was "only" 20 hours proves that there are enough people out there that want length over important choices.
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coldsteelblue
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: coldsteelblue
Posts: 680 Likes: 1,011
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by coldsteelblue on Oct 3, 2018 11:18:20 GMT
Yeah I like the idea of characters leaving if your disapproval gets too low, makes them feel more fleshed out & with a mind of their own.
Just my opinion.
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melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,942 Likes: 24,285
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Post by melbella on Oct 3, 2018 12:15:06 GMT
No, I rather not that happen because then we will have another Mass Effect 3 "Liara Situation" where all the important dialogue is dumped onto one character because they will always be there.
We already had 3 companions and 3 advisors in DAI we couldn't get rid of/not recruit, so I don't think this will be an issue in another DA game. Everyone else was optional to recruit but, once you did, for the most part you were stuck with them until the end. This also goes along with another thread somewhere, to be able to break up with someone at any point. You shouldn't be stuck in a relationship, of any sort, you don't want. If the companions have the option to leave, I want the option to kick them out.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,904 Likes: 8,935
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 3, 2018 12:33:37 GMT
No, I rather not that happen because then we will have another Mass Effect 3 "Liara Situation" where all the important dialogue is dumped onto one character because they will always be there.
We already had 3 companions and 3 advisors in DAI we couldn't get rid of/not recruit, so I don't think this will be an issue in another DA game. Everyone else was optional to recruit but, once you did, for the most part you were stuck with them until the end. This also goes along with another thread somewhere, to be able to break up with someone at any point. You shouldn't be stuck in a relationship, of any sort, you don't want. If the companions have the option to leave, I want the option to kick them out.
I don't remember Inquisition well enough to remember how all the conversations went, but I don't remember a lot of important dialogue being given to us from our companions it was mostly from our advisers so to me its still the same thing the conversations with our companions most of the time was trivial.
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