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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 8, 2018 22:37:25 GMT
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Post by simit on Nov 8, 2018 23:39:43 GMT
Casual/hardcore nothing to do with it tbh, they introduced systems in base D2 which were boring an took away systems ftom d1 that kept ppl playing, gave out exotics like candy an well all the rest thats been covered.
Never bothered me because simply put i played D1 from launch till D2 launch individually buying every dlc that came out then when i seen D2 launch with same crappy pay structure i went fuck it am waiting, an thats what i did, i waited for the 3rd an only dlc that would be of any worth to get released then instead of paying over £100 i just paid £50 an as a filthy casual im enjoying myself immensely.
D2 problems weren't casual or hardcore related, it was just boring ass loot with zero incentives to do anything from my understanding of it all, Forsaken fixed alot of that with adding random perk rolls, quest chains for exotics etc an the reason ppl aint going back has all been documented from the cash shop to the xp,BUT, yes always one, giving the base game away free first on psn an now battle.net has brought in alot of ppl who are praising it, wether or not they shell out £40 for tye expac a different story.
If they go the mtx route again in D3 it will kill it, it's that simple an they should know that by the reaction to it in D2.
As for Anthem? I think there experience in SWTOR an MEMP will serve them well, with swtor they should've learned that ppl consume content faster than you can fart so i expect end game to be plentiful at launch, whether or not they put content in the game that requires thought, VC an tactics remains to be seen but MEMP had a good mixture for your casual like me an your more hardcore so i expect difficulty regardless of whats been shown, its just the question of in what form that difficulty takes remains for me.
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Post by akots on Nov 9, 2018 1:29:15 GMT
... Is this a challenge that BioWare faces with Anthem and if so, what should they do about it? IMHO, it is such a minor concern at this point for them that, to be honest, nobody cares. First and foremost, the game should run and should not crash. If that's accomplished, everything else is going to be fine. They have 3 months before the launch and there is still no actual detailed info about anything, just usual bits and pieces, Andromeda style.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 9, 2018 3:36:34 GMT
A good game is a good game, it cannot be balanced for both player types. Many years I have seen with World of Warcraft is that "Blizzard caters to casuals" or "Blizzard only cares about the hardcore players" for no matter what the company will do people will always think they are the forgotten ones.
So as long as BioWare can release a game that is good and doesn't have a lot of problems at launch I think they are fine, but they do have to have something going for people to do regularly when people are done the story. I think they have learned that with the MP portions of their recent games for with ME3MP having the event weekends and also the progress bar when you reach max level if you promote your class starting with Dragon Age: Inquisition they have things that allow players to feel they are continuing to improve over time. That is why there are still people playing the different Diablo games or games like Starcraft PvP because they feel like they are progressing some how. Then have a schedule for new major content drops. That keeps everyone interested to a degree.
To me I think for BioWare its a bigger concern to try and balance single player and group player content, for there are people that are going to want to do the entire story campaign without a group and not want to feel that they have to grind to over gear that content.
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Post by dirtrider00 on Nov 9, 2018 19:17:27 GMT
I've been playing Destiny for the last 4+ years and from what I've seen and heard I don't think Anthem is going to have the problems that Destiny has had.
Destiny is very playable solo and has matchmaking for all but the endgame content. Thats where it kind of falls apart. All pve content is based on 1 to 3 players and has matchmaking except the 3 man Nightfall. Destinys endgame is based on a 6 man team and requires alot of communication and time invested while learning the mechanics and such for all of the raid layers.
Another problem is Bungies leveling is rng based and after 4 years they are still making changes from dlc to dlc. Honestly still don't know if they actually have any kind of plan for Destiny's progression or if they just keep changing things for whatever side is moaning the most at any given time.
Another one of its main problems, at least for me, is they like to link the pve and pvp parts of the game together. While D2 is better than D1 at separating any nerfs made on individual items or player abilities in pvp, they still effect pve.
I could go on about Destiny but I'm not seeing any major problems with Anthem that could separate its player base into groups of elitist vs. solo/caual or pve vs. pvp. Granted, as of now, Anthem won't release with pvp and hopefully does well enough that they won't feel pressured to add it at a later date.
As long as Anthem has a way the solo players can run the endgame content through matchmaking but still let clans/friends run content together and can keep the actual leveling non-rng based, I think Anthem as a whole should be good.
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Post by spacev3gan on Nov 10, 2018 0:17:36 GMT
I don't know exactly where one draws the line between Hardcore and Casual, but as far as previous Bioware Multiplayer games went, they all had a bias towards the hardcore ones, with a heavy emphasis on RNG (which is directly tied to loot boxes, a big thing on all Bioware Multiplayer games). They were games in which, at 200 or so hours played, you were a filthy casual, with a poor man's inventory and largely unable to play at the highest difficulty levels.
In Destiny 2, a player who has clocked 200 hours can play next to or against a player who has 2,000 hours with no problem whatsoever. Maybe he will not perform at the very same level on endgame PVE activities (though he can, depending on his understanding of the game's mechanics), but he will definitely carry his own weight. In ME3MP and DAIMP, a 200 hours player is someone who is largely stuck on Silver difficulty. In MEAMP, maybe Gold, but that is about it. The crowds who really enjoyed these games are those who invested 500 hours, 800 hours, 2,000 hours and so on. I've never seen anyone saying like "I played 45 hours of Mass Effect Andromeda Multiplayer and had a great time, even managed to get my Ultra Rare Human Kineticist!".
So yeah, given Bioware's history, I don't think Anthem will be very different. There may be some endgame content to play for those who play 8-10 hours a week, but the bulk of the endgame will likely be more biased towards the ones who play 25+ hours a week.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 10, 2018 16:34:38 GMT
Hardcore vs. casual is the wrong dichotomy. If there's going to be a balance problem, it's going to be Power Fantasy vs. Fun with Friends. True, hardcore tend to be driven by Power Fantasy, and the more friends you have, the more casuals you'll likely play with, but that doesn't rule out casuals who are in it for the Power Fantasy, or hardcore players that like to mix it up with noob friends.
For example, it would be easy to set things up in such a way that the best Power Fantasy is to go it alone, or with experience/skill-based matchmaking where it's optimal if everyone has the same skill level. If even being a few levels behind in experience/skill/gear significantly impacts the Power Fantasy, you can kiss Fun with Friends behind.
On the other hand, if you balance things out so that even a level 1 noob can have fun with a level 30 legendary veteran, it would be easy to do that with caps and constraints that compromise the Power Fantasy. Want to go after than Ancient Titan? Whoops, not this session, you got a level 1 noob your squad. Or, go ahead and go after the Ancient Titan, but the level 1 noob will suddenly do 20x more damage with his Common gear, for some reason.
It's going to be tough to get this balance right and I don't expect it to be even close to right at release. It will take a few months to dial everything in.
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Post by bacon4breakfast on Nov 13, 2018 5:28:54 GMT
what the fuck is anthem?
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 13, 2018 15:54:08 GMT
So yeah, given Bioware's history, I don't think Anthem will be very different. There may be some endgame content to play for those who play 8-10 hours a week, but the bulk of the endgame will likely be more biased towards the ones who play 25+ hours a week. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be true. I generally dislike multiplayer because social life prevents me from sinking hours upon hours into a game anymore. So if anthem turns out Multi only AND requiring a heavy upkeep, I'll drop out pretty fast...
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Post by ahglock on Nov 13, 2018 23:32:38 GMT
So yeah, given Bioware's history, I don't think Anthem will be very different. There may be some endgame content to play for those who play 8-10 hours a week, but the bulk of the endgame will likely be more biased towards the ones who play 25+ hours a week. I really hope this doesn't turn out to be true. I generally dislike multiplayer because social life prevents me from sinking hours upon hours into a game anymore. So if anthem turns out Multi only AND requiring a heavy upkeep, I'll drop out pretty fast... Thing is assuming the examples are parallel to anthem you still do everything end game. Just not on the dial to 11 platinum stamp. I play meamp on silver I played me3mp on gold and got carried in a platinum game. I never put crazy hours into either. I did all the same missions just on a easier difficulty. I lost bragging rights, some drops and I guess achievements but not much else. I still got to play all I wanted. While I have concerns about anthem, I’m not too concerned about it being too hardcore. As I expect I’ll still have the content just not bragging rights.
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Post by biggydx on Nov 14, 2018 3:55:28 GMT
I think the best way to make a game like this is to design it for hardcore players to stick around, but have it be fun enough to turn casuals into hardcore players. If the games systems are designed so that they are fun and accessible (without the hand-holding), and the community is able to be (generally) positive with one another, then I don't see why the game couldn't appeal to both audiences.
Even if its the case that there's a lot to do for a casual player who doesn't have a lot of time, that still means there's plenty of content for them to eventually tackle. Personally, I don't see Anthem doing big DLC releases like Destiny, so I don't think the pressure to have to continuously push yourself forward (to stay relevant) is going to be as dire for Anthem.
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Post by PillarBiter on Nov 14, 2018 7:32:33 GMT
I think the best way to make a game like this is to design it for hardcore players to stick around, but have it be fun enough to turn casuals into hardcore players. If the games systems are designed so that they are fun and accessible (without the hand-holding), and the community is able to be (generally) positive with one another, then I don't see why the game couldn't appeal to both audiences. Even if its the case that there's a lot to do for a casual player who doesn't have a lot of time, that still means there's plenty of content for them to eventually tackle. Personally, I don't see Anthem doing big DLC releases like Destiny, so I don't think the pressure to have to continuously push yourself forward (to stay relevant) is going to be as dire for Anthem. The way I would design it, is to be difficult, but allow casuals to catch up easily (i.e., easily obtain all weapons, skills, ...).
Then add a grind for hardcores for stickers, dances, skins or whatnot they all like. Then as a final grind, allow hardcores through rigorous work to upgrade their weapons, but no more than 20%, otherwise they veer off of the casual's difficulty curve too much.
What I like about monster hunter for example is, yeah you can upgrade your weapons, but it is waaaaay more important to upgrade your personal skill. And THAT is what needs to be the situaton (imho).
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 6, 2018 18:20:44 GMT
This thread needs reviving. One of the things that made ME3MP so great, and the subforum so lively and full of all sorts of threads, from scientific to ridiculous and sometimes elements of both. Lolbronze. lolsilver. lolgold. Git gud scurb. These are important elements of a proper 4VE coop game, in my limited experience. Hopefully some of this will find a way to be incorporated to this game.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 6, 2018 18:29:08 GMT
Does: "LolLancer" work as a name? Hmmmm
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 6, 2018 21:58:29 GMT
Can I qualify as a hardcore casual gamer?
I played over 400 hours of Bronze in ME3MP before moving up. For the first few years I played about 5 hours per day. I'm playing less now, but I've got >11,000 matches and 3800 hours into it. However, I have fewer than 50 hours each in MEAMP and DAMP and am unlikely to play more.
I think ME3MP really hit the sweet spot in that it could lure casual gamers like me (who had never before played an MP game with strangers) into playing it as if it were my job. At the same time 1337 gamerz were having fun soloing platinum and challenging each other to Thunderdome. There was enough variety in kits and weapons to keep things interesting but the mechanics were simple enough to pick up. Also, the game just *felt good*. It sounded good, looked good, didn't have too many bugs (apart from the bad old T-pose vanguard days), and kept the flow of prizes at a fairly constant (bearable) rate. There was always something to chase, be it weekly events, challenges, banners, manifest, etc, but they were in digestible chunks so it felt like we were "getting somewhere" and not just spinning our wheels.
Bugs and repetitive dialogue kept me from liking DAMP, bugs and the crazy amount of grind kept me from liking MEAMP. Here's hoping Anthem can catch that lightning in a bottle again.
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Post by helios969 on Dec 9, 2018 10:53:04 GMT
Can I qualify as a hardcore casual gamer? I played over 400 hours of Bronze in ME3MP before moving up. For the first few years I played about 5 hours per day. I'm playing less now, but I've got >11,000 matches and 3800 hours into it. However, I have fewer than 50 hours each in MEAMP and DAMP and am unlikely to play more. I think ME3MP really hit the sweet spot in that it could lure casual gamers like me (who had never before played an MP game with strangers) into playing it as if it were my job. At the same time 1337 gamerz were having fun soloing platinum and challenging each other to Thunderdome. There was enough variety in kits and weapons to keep things interesting but the mechanics were simple enough to pick up. Also, the game just *felt good*. It sounded good, looked good, didn't have too many bugs (apart from the bad old T-pose vanguard days), and kept the flow of prizes at a fairly constant (bearable) rate. There was always something to chase, be it weekly events, challenges, banners, manifest, etc, but they were in digestible chunks so it felt like we were "getting somewhere" and not just spinning our wheels. Bugs and repetitive dialogue kept me from liking DAMP, bugs and the crazy amount of grind kept me from liking MEAMP. Here's hoping Anthem can catch that lightning in a bottle again. I would probably classify myself the same. ME3 was my first foray into MP (as I recall you were the one to convince me to jump in) and had a blast. I did manage a couple hundred hours in MEAMP but between the poorly balanced weapons, excessive grind, and lack of playerbase just a few months after release it was doomed. The two biggest issues imo was it did little to foster coop since everyone were one-person wrecking crews (ME3 required team synergy or you were screwed)....and then giving players all that awesome mobility only to stuff them in a tiny sandbox. I'll speculate that Anthem will end up being what MEAMP should have been. It may have the opposite problem that players can end up spread out too much or separated from each other while on a mission, but hopefully we're dependent upon one another to be successful...particularly on higher difficulties.
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 9, 2018 10:56:54 GMT
It's funny to hear people pretend DAMP and MEAMP are dead when both are still doing quite well.
I question the wisdom of making claims it takes five minutes to disprove.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 9, 2018 14:57:46 GMT
It's funny to hear people pretend DAMP and MEAMP are dead when both are still doing quite well. I question the wisdom of making claims it takes five minutes to disprove. You are hilarious dude. Those games are doing "well"? Compared to what? The hairball my cat just puked up? I question your wisdom, entirely. You spout opinion after opinion with the wrath of God, then get proved wrong with evidence and you keep your head down and keep digging. Obvious troll is obvious.
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Post by sabreracer on Dec 11, 2018 17:34:47 GMT
The player base seems to be deciding factor when it comes to MP games.
ME3MP while fractious at times generally pulled in the same direction as there wasn't a large distinction in gear regardless of if you had 200 hours or thousands of hours it was just down to "skill". No PvP
D1 I missed cos PC. But in D2 the D1 players often hated the "casuals" (one who only play 3 hours a day not 18) because they had relatively simple access to gear without having to grind out for days or weeks to get the good stuff. Then you have timegated stuff only available per season and the leveling is gated if you don't have access to clan mates for Raids. PvP is an important part of of the game and rewards from PvE work extremely well in PvP.
I enjoyed it but it's NOT the only game I play so with the increase in rng rewards and even steeper requirements for Forsaken I decided not to continue.
Warframe I have 5000+ hours the community is generally supportive of each other and PvP is almost non-existent.
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Post by nanotm on Dec 11, 2018 18:06:21 GMT
since anthem is a pve only co-op and you select your difficulty to suit yourself hardcore vs causal is immaterial it caters well to both just as me3 mp and dai mp did
the real question will be will those who prefer hardcore also be willing to aid those that are more casual when they need help but are undergeared for the mission at hand ? in mea mp a lot of folks got upset when the daily challenges provoked casuals into playing gold matches despite barely being equipped to do ok on a bronze mission, personally I never cared, half the time I solo'd the missons then went back and played them with others for the higher payouts compared ot standard missions...well I did until I killed my pc and couldn't play games on it any more/
I suspect there will be plenty of others who follow my philosophy if for no other reason than its fun to play with others and shit talk them at the same time especially when there playing like a scrub in their low level under geared kit (we all do it at some point, like when I spent 3 games running on a lvl 1 char build for the aw with a lightening belt through nightmare keep runs simply because I forgot to assign points, then I promoted it and did it anyway)
keeps things fun when you make simple mistakes
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