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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 14, 2016 14:38:17 GMT
I'm not suggesting gliders for DA4. As I said before, it's time the DA devs consider other modes of travel, other types of explorable territory. I explored the latest new zone (GW2). Not completed yet.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 15, 2016 6:21:06 GMT
More aerial camera shots of the places we're visiting. Recently playing Origins, I was pleased that I got this super over head view sweep through of the Redcliffe as my Warden "walked in." as it were. Wouldn't it have been awesome to have an overhead sweep of Val Royeoux? Even thought we wouldn't have been able to go into every building, we still would have been seeing this "Jewel" of a city on the River, felt it's size. ya know? I miss these too. The flycam views, the music, the narration... I'm not suggesting gliders for DA4. As I said before, it's time the DA devs consider other modes of travel, other types of explorable territory. I explored the latest new zone (GW2). Not completed yet. Agreed. It'd be great if they could shake it up every now and again (and in a way that makes sense for the setting). I know we had touched on this topic earlier in the thread, but your video shows off an environment which hasn't gotten a lot of discussion yet - underwater. Maybe more appropriate for a solo side-quest (due to potential pathing issues), but it'd be cool to have a proper underwater adventure that was more than just a segment of 30 second dives...
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Post by Ameridan on Jan 11, 2017 0:22:00 GMT
Just resurrect Ameridan and I'll be happy.
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Post by ergates on Jan 11, 2017 15:54:57 GMT
Know what I want to see?
It's simple.
More than eight spells/abilities on the action bar.
This particular limitation came very close to being a deal breaker for me. I can (reluctantly) live with the rubbish tactic screen, and lack of spirit healing mechanics, the clunky controls and interface - but not being able to set out the action bar as I wanted it, having to spec my entire party in a manner that ignored more situational utility spells and talents in favour of stuff I knew I'd regularly use and having such a drastic limitation upon the way I like to play made things quite boring and stale for me.
Back in Origins and DA2 I used to really look forward to levelling up, because there was such a wide range of awesome things to learn, a definite journey to take as each character crept closer to what I considered their core build. I'd be in a constant mindset of
"ooh, I really need that..but that other one is awesome.... but I need that one too in order to do XYZ later.. but that one is damned useful for utility purposes... which one is the most useful now? How shall I plan ahead to get the build I want?... decisions, decisions....
But Inquisition was more like:
Oh.. another spell goes there.. can't have that one, no point learning that one May as well learn this one. OK... click... done.
Give me back my spells and abilities, that's all I ask.
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Post by phoray on Jan 11, 2017 18:07:10 GMT
ergatesTechnically, you can remove all abilities with that amulet and respec as needed. Which I like that, I always hated the part where I learned something new in Origins just to find out I didn't like it...it was a permanent buy. But I also want my Action Bar extended as well. I ran into the issue of liking TOO MUCH as a Rogue, and wanting to use over half my available abilities.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 11, 2017 18:20:26 GMT
Yeah, if there's one thing I want back it would be an expanded ability bar for PC and a return of the radial menu for consoles.
I like having a set of go to abilities that I use in every fight, so I usually don't have a problem, but I want it to be easier to get to those I only use occasionally.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jan 11, 2017 18:20:58 GMT
The action bar thing is a tricky one. If we exclude for a moment the 'how do console players use this' argument, one of the reason we give limited options is to promote player choice and reduce cognitive load. For the majority of all use cases, even if you had 100 abilities on your bar you would only be able to really use a few of them except for one-off situations (I need Tranquilizing Shot for this one boss and then never again). On top of this, having that many abilities means you'll have a lot more watered down skills like modals/toggles or minimal buffs (+10% fire resist) to try to fill out your ability selection. That said, I recognize there are problems the other way as well. Having only 4 slots for example (as DAIMP had) causes people to find what works and never experiment. Additionally, in the DAI system all the skills you HAD to buy due to the way the tree was made were really frustrating as they served no purpose. SO, where does one go with that ideology? Well, if it were me ( ) I'd probably revisit the abilities at their root and ensure that whatever the ability limit (or lack of) is, the ability selection is built around that. For example, an ability like Dispel in DAI I don't think works for a limited pool set up because it is only really used for one-off situations. What one might do instead is put the dispel effect in to an upgrade for something with more general use or have more enemies that have reasons to dispel so the Player has to actually decide between say Barrier and Dispel instead of it being a no brainer.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 11, 2017 18:41:59 GMT
The action bar thing is a tricky one. If we exclude for a moment the 'how do console players use this' argument, one of the reason we give limited options is to promote player choice and reduce cognitive load. For the majority of all use cases, even if you had 100 abilities on your bar you would only be able to really use a few of them except for one-off situations (I need Tranquilizing Shot for this one boss and then never again). On top of this, having that many abilities means you'll have a lot more watered down skills like modals/toggles or minimal buffs (+10% fire resist) to try to fill out your ability selection. That said, I recognize there are problems the other way as well. Having only 4 slots for example (as DAIMP had) causes people to find what works and never experiment. Additionally, in the DAI system all the skills you HAD to buy due to the way the tree was made were really frustrating as they served no purpose. SO, where does one go with that ideology? Well, if it were me ( ) I'd probably revisit the abilities at their root and ensure that whatever the ability limit (or lack of) is, the ability selection is built around that. For example, an ability like Dispel in DAI I don't think works for a limited pool set up because it is only really used for one-off situations. What one might do instead is put the dispel effect in to an upgrade for something with more general use or have more enemies that have reasons to dispel so the Player has to actually decide between say Barrier and Dispel instead of it being a no brainer. The idea of expanding upgrades to more commonly used abilities would also require a look at how cool downs work, though. Say Dispel was made an upgrade of Mind Blast, a commonly useful and used ability...your tank and DPS are afflicted by some weakness spell, your Mage uses Mind Blast and clears the effects...but then has enemies close on them...the perfect time to use Mind Blast, but if it's in cool down you could end up in a tricky spot. So...do you reduce or remove cool downs entirely? Unlikely, since that would lead to spamming of powerful abilities. Does Mind Blast have an aggro reduction mechanic? That *might* work if the closing enemies weren't already engaged with the Mage. Or perhaps it has some "Jedi" mind trick component as well, forcing enemies to seek new targets. I guess there are ways to solve just about any problem, but for me, I'd rather have the Origins/DA2 way back.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 11, 2017 18:50:49 GMT
I brought this up earlier in the thread (or maybe in another one), but you could it her remove ALL elemental resistance/immunity OR (preferably), allow load outs and weapons to be changed during combat.
Although, I guess that isn't really any different to the first two games from console players point of view...but my Mage shouldn't be made useless because the second wave of demons from a rift are all despair demons and the Mage has an ice staff equipped...
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jan 11, 2017 18:53:38 GMT
I brought this up earlier in the thread (or maybe in another one), but you could it her remove ALL elemental resistance/immunity OR (preferably), allow load outs and weapons to be changed during combat. Although, I guess that isn't really any different to the first two games from console players point of view...but my Mage shouldn't be made useless because the second wave of demons from a rift are all despair demons and the Mage has an ice staff equipped... As you said, many possible solutions. What's important to recognize right now, from our perspective, is that this is a problem to be solved for. The resistance thing was its own bag of fun
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 11, 2017 19:08:09 GMT
I brought this up earlier in the thread (or maybe in another one), but you could it her remove ALL elemental resistance/immunity OR (preferably), allow load outs and weapons to be changed during combat. Although, I guess that isn't really any different to the first two games from console players point of view...but my Mage shouldn't be made useless because the second wave of demons from a rift are all despair demons and the Mage has an ice staff equipped... As you said, many possible solutions. What's important to recognize right now, from our perspective, is that this is a problem to be solved for. The resistance thing was its own bag of fun Glad I wasn't the only one "enjoying" it!
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 11, 2017 19:48:32 GMT
I'd like to see a return to the "When X happens, party member uses Ability X" in the tactics. Using Long Shot when an enemy is frozen or petrified, for example.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 11, 2017 19:55:26 GMT
I'd like to see a return to the "When X happens, party member uses Ability X" in the tactics. Using Long Shot when an enemy is frozen or petrified, for example. Yup, that was...missed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 0:12:17 GMT
For example, an ability like Dispel in DAI I don't think works for a limited pool set up because it is only really used for one-off situations. Dispel was pretty useful.. for heartbreaker ;-)
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 12, 2017 0:50:03 GMT
I wonder if there might be some value in consolidating a number of related powers to a single button/key. Especially if we wind up having fewer buttons to map to due to having more core abilities like dodge/block/etc. For example: (A branch of) The Winter Tree mapped to the B button. - Target the ground ( and you can lay down an Ice Mine. Potentially swap out for Ice Wall. - Target an enemy ( and now you can use it cast Winter's Grasp. Potentially swap out Cone of Cold. - Hold ( for a second to activate your nova - Blizzard. Swap out for ??? As you level up, you can "fill out" the ability bundle (which would be optimal). Potentially encouraging experimentation? Alternatively, you could take the same idea and apply it to varying the effects of a single ability. For example: After you've unlocked 3 abilities in the Winter's Breath "tree". - Target a distant enemy ( and works as per usual. - Target yourself ( to generate a close range 360 degree freeze burst. - Hold ( to generate a continuous freeze ray (a la Despair Demon).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 1:49:01 GMT
I wonder if there might be some value in consolidating a number of related powers to a single button/key. Especially if we wind up having fewer buttons to map to due to having more core abilities like dodge/block/etc. For example: (A branch of) The Winter Tree mapped to the B button. - Target the ground ( and you can lay down an Ice Mine. Potentially swap out for Ice Wall. - Target an enemy ( and now you can use it cast Winter's Grasp. Potentially swap out Cone of Cold. - Hold ( for a second to activate your nova - Blizzard. Swap out for ??? As you level up, you can "fill out" the ability bundle (which would be optimal). Potentially encouraging experimentation? Alternatively, you could take the same idea and apply it to varying the effects of a single ability. For example: After you've unlocked 3 abilities in the Winter's Breath "tree". - Target a distant enemy ( and works as per usual. - Target yourself ( to generate a close range 360 degree freeze burst. - Hold ( to generate a continuous freeze ray (a la Despair Demon). That sounds pretty cool. I look forward to stuff like this. Another example: Left mouse button = Normal basic attack Left mouse button + backward movement = Downward basic attack (sweep at an enemy's leg)... etc..
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 12, 2017 2:33:52 GMT
I wonder if there might be some value in consolidating a number of related powers to a single button/key. Especially if we wind up having fewer buttons to map to due to having more core abilities like dodge/block/etc. For example: (A branch of) The Winter Tree mapped to the B button. - Target the ground ( and you can lay down an Ice Mine. Potentially swap out for Ice Wall. - Target an enemy ( and now you can use it cast Winter's Grasp. Potentially swap out Cone of Cold. - Hold ( for a second to activate your nova - Blizzard. Swap out for ??? As you level up, you can "fill out" the ability bundle (which would be optimal). Potentially encouraging experimentation? Alternatively, you could take the same idea and apply it to varying the effects of a single ability. For example: After you've unlocked 3 abilities in the Winter's Breath "tree". - Target a distant enemy ( and works as per usual. - Target yourself ( to generate a close range 360 degree freeze burst. - Hold ( to generate a continuous freeze ray (a la Despair Demon). That sounds pretty cool. I look forward to stuff like this. Another example: Left mouse button = Normal basic attack Left mouse button + backward movement = Downward basic attack (sweep at an enemy's leg)... etc.. Yup - attack maneuvers are another good example. I suppose you could also attach abilities to basic attack buttons/triggers if you wanted... For example: Left Mouse Button: Normal Attack Hold Left Mouse Button: Special Attack - Power Attack/Whirlwind Attack/Lunge Attack, Etc. Or perhaps even just a core "Heavy Attack" and leave the abilities to other keys. Right Mouse Button: Block Hold Right Mouse Button: Active 360 degree weapon blocking (aka - going full defensive)/Shield Wall/Etc. I recently played Amalur and they had a number of different means to activate special variants along the same ability tree. Just some ideas to muse over... Dodge (towards target) + Attack for a special move. Attack + Pause for a moment + Attack for a stagger + uppercut. Spell + Spell + Spell to chain together a multi-stage spell. Of course, the further down this rabbit hole we go, the more we have to wonder how we'll deal with our companions at the same time. I think the idea of multi-stage spells (or even weapon attacks for that matter) is pretty interesting. Especially for novas. As each stage can potentially be interrupted, they could offer a new kind of high risk/high reward option for mages (+ potentially others).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2017 4:51:45 GMT
That sounds pretty cool. I look forward to stuff like this. Another example: Left mouse button = Normal basic attack Left mouse button + backward movement = Downward basic attack (sweep at an enemy's leg)... etc.. Yup - attack maneuvers are another good example. I suppose you could also attach abilities to basic attack buttons/triggers if you wanted... For example: Left Mouse Button: Normal Attack Hold Left Mouse Button: Special Attack - Power Attack/Whirlwind Attack/Lunge Attack, Etc. Or perhaps even just a core "Heavy Attack" and leave the abilities to other keys. Right Mouse Button: Block Hold Right Mouse Button: Active 360 degree weapon blocking (aka - going full defensive)/Shield Wall/Etc. I recently played Amalur and they had a number of different means to activate special variants along the same ability tree. Just some ideas to muse over... Dodge (towards target) + Attack for a special move. Attack + Pause for a moment + Attack for a stagger + uppercut. Spell + Spell + Spell to chain together a multi-stage spell. Of course, the further down this rabbit hole we go, the more we have to wonder how we'll deal with our companions at the same time. I think the idea of multi-stage spells (or even weapon attacks for that matter) is pretty interesting. Especially for novas. As each stage can potentially be interrupted, they could offer a new kind of high risk/high reward option for mages (+ potentially others). The only issue with this kind of control mapping is it wouldn't work very well with AoE attacks (where you need to pause and select an AoE), unless they are auto-targeted. For warriors though it could be fantastic, definitely worth trying to create a mod similar to this in the (near) future (Also, shield wall on right mouse button... man I'd have loved to create a mod that does this, but DAI doesn't allow you to map anything to the RMB for some reason)
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jan 12, 2017 8:45:18 GMT
I'd like to see a return to the "When X happens, party member uses Ability X" in the tactics. Using Long Shot when an enemy is frozen or petrified, for example. The absence of If>Then tactics is my only really serious problem with Inquisition. It was one of my favourite parts of the first two games, the system was almost perfect in DA2, and then it vanished entirely . I really hope it was a casualty of the move to Frostbite and resulting time crunch and not something the team decided to drop for design reasons. It makes a huge difference to how useful certain companions are for people who don't micro-manage everyone all the time, expecially if they have specializations that are tricky for the basic AI to use like Varric, Iron Bull and Vivienne.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 2:51:56 GMT
(Also, shield wall on right mouse button... man I'd have loved to create a mod that does this, but DAI doesn't allow you to map anything to the RMB for some reason) Uh. Looked a bit more into it tonight (I was bored). It should be possible after all. I haven't tested it yet, but on paper it should...
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 13, 2017 3:30:53 GMT
(Also, shield wall on right mouse button... man I'd have loved to create a mod that does this, but DAI doesn't allow you to map anything to the RMB for some reason) Uh. Looked a bit more into it tonight (I was bored). It should be possible after all. I haven't tested it yet, but on paper it should... Nice... Now if you can just set it up so I can go full sword 'n board with my KE. Although... a shield would appear on a KE's sword arm. I'd be curious to see what the animation would look like though!
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 13, 2017 17:54:44 GMT
I ran across this oldie but awesome-ie mashup battle between Final Fantasy & Dead or Alive by the late Monty Oum last night. And I was impressed by just how well it holds up even today. Now, the combat is way OTT for the DA, but I think there's some cool takeaways from how this fight is structured. - The fight progresses through several phases, dramatically changing up the combat environment in each stage. - The music changes up with each phase, and is absolutely on point in each stage. - And while there are a couple of moments where the fight pauses, it is essentially one continuous battle. I'd love to see a big set-piece battle in DA that incorporates 2, 3 or more major (and ideally unexpected) transitions in an essentially... one long(-ish), unbroken fight. Just as a random example to illustrate (and because we seem to be on a pirate-y kick over on the Twitter Thread right now... ): 1. We're on a Tevinter ship in the rolling sea nearing Seheron. 2. A fog bank develops in front of the ship. 3. Fog Warriors hidden on skiffs throw fog bombs on deck to hide themselves as they throw grapples and try to board. 4. Battle - Phase 1. 5. Suddenly a glow in the sky as gaatlok firebombs rain down on deck and the silhouette of a Qunari dreadnought in the fog can be seen barreling towards us. 6. Mages begin returning fire to the rapidly approaching ship. Make it a real spectacle... 7. Battle - Phase 2. 8. While the fight is still raging, the dreadnought rams us, splitting our ship in half. 9. Now it's a free-for-all with the Qunari, the Fog Warriors and us all fighting with toppling rigging, fires, and other environmental challenges. 10. Battle - Phase 3. 11. Now we have to topple our damaged mast onto the dreadnought in order to have some way of climbing aboard. 12. Battle - Phase 4. 13. Now we fight our way to the hold, find some way to detonate their gaatlok stores, and blow up the dreadnought. 14. Everyone goes for a swim as we make our way to some debris and then rig something up to get to shore, watching the ships burn and enemies floundering in the sea. The main takeaway is that it's essentially one continuous fight, even as we watch the dreadnought barreling down towards us, trading fire and being rammed. But the music and tempo change with each phase, upping the tension and sense of urgency.
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Post by cooldude on Jan 16, 2017 1:52:05 GMT
Origin style tactics. in Origins, you could tell a companion what spell/potion to use and who to use it on, and when to use it. You could also tell your tank to attack the boss, while your companions could be told to kill/CC the adds, and you could make it to where the AI would do this on it's own with very little micro-managing. It dumbfounds me on why they tossed tactics out the window, considering how much easier it made combat.
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Post by Natashina on Jan 21, 2017 19:51:27 GMT
One of the things I might enjoy is a day/night cycle. It isn't just for the sake of having one. I don't know much about game development, but that sounds costly and very time consuming. I'd love to see it come into play though and not in the old school way like, "you have been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself." I'm thinking similar to DA2 only with more fleshing out. For instance, having a tomb out near Par Vollen that can only be opened at night. Or to only be able to access certain shops and villages during the day. Another fun thing would be to have a special Black Market. The chances of another BE aren't unlikely, but I'd like to see a fully functional black market, populated by Carta and other shady groups willing to sell you what you need. For a price of course. Heck, take some cues from the Diablo series. There has been merchants that will allow you to gamble on a random item. You can see what item type it is (mainly weapons and armor) but you don't get to see what stats. You could end up with something epic, or something just barely above vendor trash. To help with this, players can get a choice when they rest at a camp or at the HQ or an inn. They can choose to get up either day or night time. My idea to help offset the "holy crap" amount of time and resources is that, like DA2, the day/night cycle only changes when the player rests. I know it wouldn't be easy, but it would be nice to see more areas during the day versus the night. My inspiration partially comes from the Western Approach. We see it during the day, when it isn't as bad. The description in Asunder indicates it is a lot worse at night. More random roaming darkspawn, demons and the "wonderful" local wildlife. It obviously becomes worse as you approach the Abyssal Rift. I can see where the devs were coming from, since they had a desert level set at night (the Hissing Wastes,) but I'd still enjoying seeing a place like the Western Approach at night. My goofy request: I want to see a flying wingless cow at some point in Tevinter in the next DA game. I wouldn't want this to be a subtle easter egg, I'd want this to be unforgotten. Kinda like the Nug King, only not tucked away behind a collection quest in a DLC. Bonus points if the devs call it "The Flying Shifty Cow."
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 22, 2017 2:10:20 GMT
Subverting expectations. Every once in a while (and for the most part in DLC) Dragon Age will veer away from the expected in lighter moments (Chateau Haine & the Wyvern Hunt, Judging Storvaker, the Nug King, Spa Day...). And they're often among the more memorable moments in the game for that reason. It's not something you want to overdo of course, but it might be nice to see this used a little more in the main game. This actually came up from from a joke about how everyone suicidally throws themselves at you in these games, and how you almost never hear anyone remark on that. And I suddenly remembered Sergeant Kylon from DA:O. He had only a small role in the game, but I always thought he was one the more memorable NPCs. You'll probably remember this line... "I said beat down, not kill. Let me make that really clear. Not on fire, or exploded, or Maker knows whatever type of grisly death you can dream up. ... Sorry, used to giving orders to my boys." Anyway, you see him again in (I think) the Back Alley Justice quest, after salting the earth with a group of thugs. Which you probably yawned your way through at that level. After which, Kylon delivers possibly the most on point remark in the entire DA series... "And people actually voluntarily attack you? Are they just stupid?" media.tenor.co/images/28d668fb9fe9e0c59a763fc84b6e3a44/tenor.gifThere's one expectation that would be nice to occasionally see subverted in a future game - seeing the occasional non-named NPC(s) with sense of self-preservation. I thought it might be fun to have a late game scene where the heroes face a huge group of foes, only to have one shout out, "Wait... Isn't that **PROTAGONIST**?!""Well, shit." And everyone scatters to the hills. Like anyone with with a brain larger than a grape that had heard even a fraction of your exploits would. Now, you wouldn't want to do this for every fight, but maybe seeing a little... trepidation from your (intelligent) foes as you get to the late game stages. It'd be a good way to help reinforce your sense of progress in the game. This also could be represented by a change in tactics from your (intelligent) opponents as you progress from early to late game.
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