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Post by Arne Saknussemm on Dec 21, 2018 23:02:13 GMT
I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. That sounds like a legitimate way to play. I've seen complaints on the EA Answers forum that certain loot is not reserved for elite bosses (aka elite players). Bioware is making the loot available to all, even solo players and casual players if they are happy to have a lower % drop rate at their difficulty level.
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The Fat Controller
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Origin: OfficerDonNZ
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Post by officerdonnz on Dec 21, 2018 23:23:23 GMT
I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. That sounds like a legitimate way to play. I've seen complaints on the EA Answers forum that certain loot is not reserved for elite bosses (aka elite players). Bioware is making the loot available to all, even solo players and casual players if they are happy to have a lower % drop rate at their difficulty level. Oh boohoo I feel really upset for the elite players... not. I'm quite happy that as a casual player I have a chance at getting the good stuff. Loot isn't why I play, it's nice sure but not the be all and end all. That and I'm fairly crappy at shooter games Case in point my ESO High Elf Templar who is at about 262 champion points has about three pieces of purple gear and rest she has is blue or green. I eventually plan to craft a full set of gear for her but first I want to unlock all the traits. In the meantime the gear I get as quest rewards or loot drops is more than sufficient to play the game with.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 21, 2018 23:37:43 GMT
I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. That sounds like a legitimate way to play. I've seen complaints on the EA Answers forum that certain loot is not reserved for elite bosses (aka elite players). Bioware is making the loot available to all, even solo players and casual players if they are happy to have a lower % drop rate at their difficulty level. That is great!
I hated how loot was handled on SWTOR. The best ones were only on raids without any other way of getting them. It was manageable when we could buy raid tickets with game credits but then they decided to close that way to force people to use real money.
Also if this game is anything like the other Bioware's tittles we will have people soloing things on the highest dificulty in no time.
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The Fat Controller
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Origin: OfficerDonNZ
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Post by officerdonnz on Dec 21, 2018 23:58:24 GMT
That sounds like a legitimate way to play. I've seen complaints on the EA Answers forum that certain loot is not reserved for elite bosses (aka elite players). Bioware is making the loot available to all, even solo players and casual players if they are happy to have a lower % drop rate at their difficulty level. That is great!
I hated how loot was handled on SWTOR. The best ones were only on raids without any other way of getting them. It was manageable when we could buy raid tickets with game credits but then they decided to close that way to force people to use real money.
Also if this game is anything like the other Bioware's tittles we will have people soloing things on the highest dificulty in no time. With SW:TOR though you only really needed the top gear if you were really into raids or PvP. Most if not all other PvE content was doable in whatever you got as loot/quest rewards. It also didn't help that SW:TOR has a bad habit of changing gear progression every five minutes or so it seems. Just look at the fallout from 5.10.... ::shudders:: I do get the point you're trying to make but then I find loot grind pointless That'll be PapaCharlie9's bag I'm sure
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 22, 2018 0:32:34 GMT
Endgame in games like this (Destiny, Division, Warframe, MMOs) typically refers to players who are at max level, have completed the main story, and have fully upgraded if not maxed out gear. So they are looking for the hardest and most rewarding content to play over and over. And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I also don't get the 'loot grind' either but there are people who love it. Assuming I buy Anthem at some point I can see me playing it much like I do SW:TOR or ESO. I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. On a long enough timeline, everyone gets to endgame, some people just get there quicker. I mean, I'd say that hanging up a game without completing all of its content at least once is really stupid, but to each their own I guess. I don't understand the mind of casual players.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Dec 22, 2018 0:44:21 GMT
Endgame in games like this (Destiny, Division, Warframe, MMOs) typically refers to players who are at max level, have completed the main story, and have fully upgraded if not maxed out gear. So they are looking for the hardest and most rewarding content to play over and over. And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I also don't get the 'loot grind' either but there are people who love it. Assuming I buy Anthem at some point I can see me playing it much like I do SW:TOR or ESO. I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. For me it depends on how much time it takes to do things. One of the things I loved about ME mp is I could hop on and do a run in 15-30 minutes. I never really grinded it on repeat after the first month or so of mp but i could hop do one match and then get some other stuff done whether another game like skyrim/sp ME or just life stuff. If I get it I’ll probably play through all the content if I don’t get bored and then use this as a time filler, a fun way to blow 30 minutes. But anytime I have a new game that will get my attention instead even if I come back to this for a year or so.
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The Fat Controller
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Post by officerdonnz on Dec 22, 2018 0:44:46 GMT
And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I also don't get the 'loot grind' either but there are people who love it. Assuming I buy Anthem at some point I can see me playing it much like I do SW:TOR or ESO. I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. On a long enough timeline, everyone gets to endgame, some people just get there quicker. I mean, I'd say that hanging up a game without completing all of its content at least once is really stupid, but to each their own I guess. I don't understand the mind of casual players. And I don't understand hardcore raiders So I guess we're even. As long as you get enjoyment from the game I don't think it really matters how you play. Though others I'm sure will disagree.
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Post by ahglock on Dec 22, 2018 0:47:46 GMT
And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I also don't get the 'loot grind' either but there are people who love it. Assuming I buy Anthem at some point I can see me playing it much like I do SW:TOR or ESO. I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. On a long enough timeline, everyone gets to endgame, some people just get there quicker. I mean, I'd say that hanging up a game without completing all of its content at least once is really stupid, but to each their own I guess. I don't understand the mind of casual players. The term casual is always weird to me. I probably put just as much time into gaming I just don’t stick and focus on one game. And if a game doesn’t keep engaging me I’m not going to keep playing it just to get a you finished this achievement. I’ll buy a new game and move on.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 22, 2018 1:10:44 GMT
That is great!
I hated how loot was handled on SWTOR. The best ones were only on raids without any other way of getting them. It was manageable when we could buy raid tickets with game credits but then they decided to close that way to force people to use real money.
Also if this game is anything like the other Bioware's tittles we will have people soloing things on the highest dificulty in no time. With SW:TOR though you only really needed the top gear if you were really into raids or PvP. Most if not all other PvE content was doable in whatever you got as loot/quest rewards. It also didn't help that SW:TOR has a bad habit of changing gear progression every five minutes or so it seems. Just look at the fallout from 5.10.... ::shudders:: I do get the point you're trying to make but then I find loot grind pointless That'll be PapaCharlie9's bag I'm sure If you were interested on the story then you needed to do the raids. The whole Dread Masters saga (even their prequel) was only acessible via Operations that need tickets you could either buy with cartel coins (real money- which i did sometimes as a preferred status player) or via game money (credits). Only during Revan saga Bioware finally decided to separate things and allow people to do the story mode without needing to do the operations.
Then later they scrubb the whole system to force preferred status players to subscribe whcih had the oposite effect in my case.
ps: No idea how things are now. Still waiting for 6.0 to drop before i decide to go back ingame.
Anyway, Anthem won't have this problem since the game doesn't have a subscription thing.
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The Fat Controller
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by officerdonnz on Dec 22, 2018 1:24:57 GMT
With SW:TOR though you only really needed the top gear if you were really into raids or PvP. Most if not all other PvE content was doable in whatever you got as loot/quest rewards. It also didn't help that SW:TOR has a bad habit of changing gear progression every five minutes or so it seems. Just look at the fallout from 5.10.... ::shudders:: I do get the point you're trying to make but then I find loot grind pointless That'll be PapaCharlie9's bag I'm sure If you were interested on the story then you needed to do the raids. The whole Dread Masters saga (even their prequel) was only acessible via Operations that need tickets you could either buy with cartel coins (real money- which i did sometimes as a preferred status player) or via game money (credits). Only during Revan saga Bioware finally decided to separate things and allow people to do the story mode without needing to do the operations.
Then later they scrubb the whole system to force preferred status players to subscribe whcih had the oposite effect in my case.
ps: No idea how things are now. Still waiting for 6.0 to drop before i decide to go back ingame.
Anyway, Anthem won't have this problem since the game doesn't have a subscription thing.
In all the years I've been playing SW:TOR I've never once felt compelled to do a raid or PvP. Don't see the point in them. Sure some have story relevance like the Dread Masters but you can skip that and not miss out on anything. I don't understand raiders or PvPer's at all
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XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Dec 22, 2018 1:38:10 GMT
Let's talk about that Interceptor butt.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Dec 22, 2018 1:49:11 GMT
If you were interested on the story then you needed to do the raids. The whole Dread Masters saga (even their prequel) was only acessible via Operations that need tickets you could either buy with cartel coins (real money- which i did sometimes as a preferred status player) or via game money (credits). Only during Revan saga Bioware finally decided to separate things and allow people to do the story mode without needing to do the operations.
Then later they scrubb the whole system to force preferred status players to subscribe whcih had the oposite effect in my case.
ps: No idea how things are now. Still waiting for 6.0 to drop before i decide to go back ingame.
Anyway, Anthem won't have this problem since the game doesn't have a subscription thing.
In all the years I've been playing SW:TOR I've never once felt compelled to do a raid or PvP. Don't see the point in them. Sure some have story relevance like the Dread Masters but you can skip that and not miss out on anything. I don't understand raiders or PvPer's at all The point was the story. That was the main reason i started playing SWTOR.
It is great Anthem won't gate content like that. If anything the strongholds seems more like a ME3 match/Flashpoint hybrid than a operation.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Dec 22, 2018 2:01:00 GMT
Let's talk about that Interceptor butt. Pervert. It was nice that this seemed a Javelin capable of melee combat, still i am going as Ranger and my pilot name shall be Tony Stark. Also have to point out how pretty the game is looking. Just hope the system requeriments aren't out of the world.
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Post by phoray on Dec 22, 2018 4:48:19 GMT
I will be honest that I was really only checking out the Anthem Gameplay to see how the world and characters looked. Is the word I'm looking for "fidelity"? I wanted to see if the environments were better and the characters looked better so I could see what lay in wait for me in DA4.
I think other than thinking that Cave was very well lit while not being too bright (DAI had a lighting problem), it looked a lot like Andromeda. Toggles, buttons, armor, environment. I didn't watch the whole vid though, skipped around, maybe saw a solid 3 minutes. The explosions did look a lot like some DAI explosions (I probably keep making that comparison as my hubs is playing DAI this last couple of weeks, and Andromeda was last year summer for me).
Anybody else spy something juicy to make one think they've carved into another quality tier with Frostbite?
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Post by biggydx on Dec 22, 2018 16:50:49 GMT
Endgame in games like this (Destiny, Division, Warframe, MMOs) typically refers to players who are at max level, have completed the main story, and have fully upgraded if not maxed out gear. So they are looking for the hardest and most rewarding content to play over and over. And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I also don't get the 'loot grind' either but there are people who love it. Assuming I buy Anthem at some point I can see me playing it much like I do SW:TOR or ESO. I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. Loot grinds are essentially a safe version of gambling. Through gameplay, you're essentially pulling the lever hoping to get something good. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. When it's something very rare, and you end up obtaining it, the endorphins that release makes it a very gratifying experience. One can argue that there's not much accomplishment in it if RNG is involved, but the accomplishment stems more from dedication being paid off.
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The Fat Controller
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: OfficerDonNZ
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Post by officerdonnz on Dec 22, 2018 19:17:18 GMT
And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I also don't get the 'loot grind' either but there are people who love it. Assuming I buy Anthem at some point I can see me playing it much like I do SW:TOR or ESO. I'll happily play through the story at my own pace and will likely never touch a stronghold at all. Loot grinds are essentially a safe version of gambling. Through gameplay, you're essentially pulling the lever hoping to get something good. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. When it's something very rare, and you end up obtaining it, the endorphins that release makes it a very gratifying experience. One can argue that there's not much accomplishment in it if RNG is involved, but the accomplishment stems more from dedication being paid off. Loot grind is overrated always has been. The older I get the less tolerance I have for the game mechanic. Fine if you enjoy it. I loathe it with a passion.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 22, 2018 21:22:05 GMT
Loot grind is overrated always has been. The older I get the less tolerance I have for the game mechanic. Fine if you enjoy it. I loathe it with a passion. I never did 'max my manifest' in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer and that's fine.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 22, 2018 23:56:52 GMT
Loot grinds are essentially a safe version of gambling. Through gameplay, you're essentially pulling the lever hoping to get something good. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. When it's something very rare, and you end up obtaining it, the endorphins that release makes it a very gratifying experience. One can argue that there's not much accomplishment in it if RNG is involved, but the accomplishment stems more from dedication being paid off. Loot grind is overrated always has been. The older I get the less tolerance I have for the game mechanic. Fine if you enjoy it. I loathe it with a passion. It's definitely not for everyone lol
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The Fat Controller
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Posts: 805 Likes: 1,975
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Post by officerdonnz on Dec 23, 2018 0:06:31 GMT
Loot grind is overrated always has been. The older I get the less tolerance I have for the game mechanic. Fine if you enjoy it. I loathe it with a passion. It's definitely not for everyone lol Indeed Life would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 23, 2018 2:27:09 GMT
Interesting stream. I'm still trying to grapple with the enemy health/density and combat pace of the game (how I'm predicting it's actually going to feel versus what I'd like to see). This particular outing is better in some ways than early videos. It looks like a very odd mix, with player movement closer to Warframe than any other shared-world shooter, but enemy density and time to kill is still more along the lines of The Division. Those two sliders diverging towards opposites is interesting. It's like, if you plotted movement on a 1-10 scale and enemy density/TTK on another 1-10 scale, Warframe is pretty much a 10/10 while The Division is basically 1/1 (not value judgments, I like both games) and Destiny is more along the lines of...I dunno, 4/7? Anthem looks more like a 7/4. It might help Anthem carve out a space that doesn't really exist as far as I know. Of course a lot of this might be drastically different once its in players' hands, especially those of us that enjoy min-maxing builds and using KBM for better target acquisition. Shout out to the animators for that Interceptor transition between jumping and flying, that is really nice. Is your TTK number high for long TTK and low for short TTK, or the reverse? I can't tell from the description. I thought the TTK for this latest stream seemed a bit short. They sure took out the "yellow" demi-bosses very quickly. Granted, they had some optimal combo situations that helped, and Ultimates, but yeah, relative to Destiny 1, they seemed to go down pretty fast. And they were down a man, only a squad of 3. They did say this was on Normal/Medium difficulty, so maybe it won't be so fast in practice? Plus they were level 20 and we don't really know what the "recommended" range was for this Stronghold. Maybe 20 was on the high side? I think your density number is a little high. Seemed a bit sparse to me, though maybe too many snipers, since they were getting 2-3 shot by them. So overall, for the stream, I'd say the density/TTK was 5/3. I think Destiny 1 had higher density on average, though it would depend on the mode/event, and slightly longer TTK, though that may have been more about me having bad gear and worse skills, lol.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 23, 2018 2:35:53 GMT
What does endgame content look like in a game that's not meant to end? It's basically a kill monsters, get treasure loop, but with variety thrown in by any or all of the following (explicitly or inferred from public info): - Grandmaster difficulty levels 1-2-3 are unlocked in the elder game, so you can redo Missions/Strongholds with higher difficulty/tougher bosses/bigger mobs => better treasure
- Shaper Storms or other public events that introduce new kill monster/get treasure opportunities
- As you said, there will likely be Missions or Strongholds that aren't unlocked until you reach max level.
And, it's a live service, so they can keep adding more stuff along the lines of the above after release. So look forward to, "On Tuesday the new Scarsdale Stronghold will be available for all level 30 Freelancers," announced on some regular basis. How often, we don't know. And the rate will vary depending on the type of thing, like a new Stronghold once a month, but a new Shaper Storm every week, sort of thing. Just keep in mind that the loop is the fun. Killing monsters is the main play value, getting treasure is the reward that enables you to find new and fun ways to kill monsters. Rinse and repeat. And then maybe a few times a year, 2 or 3, they might drop in some new story content too. I don't think they've ruled that out in any public statement, but I wouldn't count on it happening very often.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 23, 2018 2:49:33 GMT
Endgame in games like this (Destiny, Division, Warframe, MMOs) typically refers to players who are at max level, have completed the main story, and have fully upgraded if not maxed out gear. So they are looking for the hardest and most rewarding content to play over and over. And that I find really dumb in the extreme. I know people do this but it boggles my mind it really does. I might be able to explain it. It's a big positive feedback loop: kill monsters, get treasure. For a lot of players, the kill monsters part of the loop is 90% of the fun of the game. And getting the treasure makes is possible to find new/different and more fun ways to kill monsters. It doesn't matter that you see the same monsters, setting, music, dialogue, etc., etc., every time. In fact, that's an advantage! Because now you can plan for how you are going to tackle that particular stage of that particular same content, and do it faster/bigger/louder/flashier/better/with more crits/with more combos/etc., etc. That's really all there is to it. Not that boredom never sets in; it does, eventually. But hopefully Bioware will use live services to continually add new Strongholds, new Missions, new public events like Shaper Storms -- for free. If they keep to their word about that, that core set of players that gets most of their kicks from kill monster/get treasure, will keep coming back. Yeah, I said they and them. I'm not hardcore. I like getting to max level, and I may have one or two personal victory conditions I will want to achieve in the elder game, but I'll drop out pretty quickly when the next new great SP game comes along. The Last Of Us 2 is going to pretty much kill Anthem for me, once I get around to playing it. Then CP77. And from the looks of it, Ghost of Tsushima too. Then DA4.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 23, 2018 3:14:18 GMT
I'm kinda curious as to how many Strongholds Anthem will have. Depending on the number, and how long it takes for additional endgame content to arrive (via live service), the hardcore crowd might be discouraged by the lack of endgame content. You know, I think the total number of Strongholds included at release, including those that might not be unlocked until the elder game, would be an excellent metric for predicting the success/failure of the game for hardcore loot shooters. Of course, quality counts too, and if only 1 out of 10 Strongholds is any good and the rest are crap, this whole idea falls apart, but let's for the sake of argument say that all of the Strongholds at launch are at least decent. If it's > 60, I think the "lack of elder game content" argument is shot in the face before it can even get out one complaint. If it's < 20, I think the game will implode in under a month, unless there is a live service infusion before the month is out. I don't think >= 20 is unreasonable. From what we've seen, Strongholds are more complicated and larger than, say, MEAMP firebase maps, but they are less complicated and smaller than main quest stages in, say, DAI. And DAI had 11 in the main game. If you throw in dragon boss battles as well, that's 21.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 23, 2018 14:40:33 GMT
Interesting stream. I'm still trying to grapple with the enemy health/density and combat pace of the game (how I'm predicting it's actually going to feel versus what I'd like to see). This particular outing is better in some ways than early videos. It looks like a very odd mix, with player movement closer to Warframe than any other shared-world shooter, but enemy density and time to kill is still more along the lines of The Division. Those two sliders diverging towards opposites is interesting. It's like, if you plotted movement on a 1-10 scale and enemy density/TTK on another 1-10 scale, Warframe is pretty much a 10/10 while The Division is basically 1/1 (not value judgments, I like both games) and Destiny is more along the lines of...I dunno, 4/7? Anthem looks more like a 7/4. It might help Anthem carve out a space that doesn't really exist as far as I know. Of course a lot of this might be drastically different once its in players' hands, especially those of us that enjoy min-maxing builds and using KBM for better target acquisition. Shout out to the animators for that Interceptor transition between jumping and flying, that is really nice. Is your TTK number high for long TTK and low for short TTK, or the reverse? I can't tell from the description. I thought the TTK for this latest stream seemed a bit short. They sure took out the "yellow" demi-bosses very quickly. Granted, they had some optimal combo situations that helped, and Ultimates, but yeah, relative to Destiny 1, they seemed to go down pretty fast. And they were down a man, only a squad of 3. They did say this was on Normal/Medium difficulty, so maybe it won't be so fast in practice? Plus they were level 20 and we don't really know what the "recommended" range was for this Stronghold. Maybe 20 was on the high side? I think your density number is a little high. Seemed a bit sparse to me, though maybe too many snipers, since they were getting 2-3 shot by them. So overall, for the stream, I'd say the density/TTK was 5/3. I think Destiny 1 had higher density on average, though it would depend on the mode/event, and slightly longer TTK, though that may have been more about me having bad gear and worse skills, lol. I should have said "low TTK" above. Generally density and TTK are strongly linked in an inverse relationship. Fewer monsters, they take longer to kill, many monsters, you can mow through them. I can't think of any games that really break that formula. I guess in my post above I should combine those into "enemy power" or something. Or break down into three ratings. Here's my rough, not very much thought out, 9:30 AM and I just woke up breakdown Game | Player Movement | Enemy Density | Enemy TTK | Warframe | 10 | 10 | 1 | Destiny | 4 | 7 | 5 | The Division | 1 | 1 | 10 | Anthem | 7 | 4 | 7 |
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 23, 2018 17:37:58 GMT
Generally density and TTK are strongly linked in an inverse relationship. Fewer monsters, they take longer to kill, many monsters, you can mow through them. I can't think of any games that really break that formula. Agreed. I mean, it would be pretty boring to face a mob of 50 bullet sponges that take forever to kill, or a single boss that you OHK. Which is why I'm saying that the rate at which they were taking down enemies in the stream was so high, I expected the density to be higher. So something was out of whack. I'm guessing they were OP for the Stonghold they were tackling.
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