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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 27, 2018 20:28:54 GMT
This is a pre-emptive PSA based on speculation, so take with appropriate skepticism. TL;DRI predict that a lot of people are going to skip through cutscenes and rush the story part of the cripath in order to get to the elder game as quickly as possible. That is both normal for loot shooters and valid for that style of play. So if you see a claim of some shockingly low number of hours to finish the story, like 5 hours, that doesn't mean that there are only 5 hours of story content in the game. It just means they rushed it to get to the part of the game they prefer to play, the elder game.
For loot shooters like Destiny and Warframe, a conventional and valid style of play is to get to max level as quickly as possible so that you can get into the real grind for best gear as quickly as possible. Some quotes from the Anthem sub on Reddit to support this: So for people who want to play in this style, a long story-centric critpath is actually a problem. Which does somewhat beg the question, how optional will the story content be in Anthem? Presumably, very optional and skippable. The other alternative, that Bioware will only actually put 5 hours of story content in the game, seems extremely unlikely to me at this point, given what they've been saying consistently about how they are differentiating Anthem from other loot shooters. The whole My Story/Our schtick. In the end, how long the story content is, versus how much time people choose to spend on it, are two different things. Which may be why Ben Ivro tweeted this: Ben Irving @benirvoIt’s a really hard thing to compare so we aren’t really commenting on the crit path length for Anthem. Depends how you play, etcNote: I'm using "5 hours" as a placeholder. The exact number isn't as important as the fact that it's a small number, relative to what we are used to from Bioware for story content length.
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Post by river82 on Dec 27, 2018 20:59:31 GMT
People can beat Baldur's Gate in under an hour. Few people care about this type of criticism
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 27, 2018 21:12:59 GMT
People can beat Baldur's Gate in under an hour. Few people care about this type of criticism Of course, there are people that can beat Mass Effect 1 in a hour or two as well, but unfortunately around here it will become a big deal from the people that won't think that it was people powering to the end game with skipping all the cinematic and being in a single group to get all content done in one setting.
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Post by river82 on Dec 27, 2018 21:24:58 GMT
from the people that won't think that it was people powering to the end game with skipping all the cinematic and being in a single group to get all content done in one setting. Only for those who don't spend any time at all in the gaming community, around the gaming community, hovering near a water cooler stationed at the edge of a gaming community ...
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Post by smilesja on Dec 27, 2018 22:08:19 GMT
Can’t wait for the yongyea clickbait saying that the campaign is short!
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Post by Space Cowboy on Dec 27, 2018 22:14:52 GMT
People powered up though dragon age origins too, then complained the game was too short. It happens all the time.
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Post by biggydx on Dec 28, 2018 1:26:44 GMT
People powered up though dragon age origins too, then complained the game was too short. It happens all the time. There's a game called Two Worlds, and I shit you not, you can beat the game in less than 8-10 minutes. The final endgame boss is a character that's situated in a nearby town at the very beginning of the game. If you bait him into attacking you, but his attacks ends up hitting one of the townsfolk, they'll gang up on him and kill him; ending the game.
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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2018 3:00:59 GMT
People powered up though dragon age origins too, then complained the game was too short. It happens all the time. There's a game called Two Worlds, and I shit you not, you can beat the game in less than 8-10 minutes. The final endgame boss is a character that's situated in a nearby town at the very beginning of the game. If you bait him into attacking you, but his attacks ends up hitting one of the townsfolk, they'll gang up on him and kill him; ending the game. Some guy beat Morrowind in 3 minutes and 22 seconds . You needed some scrolls of Icarian Flight though
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 28, 2018 6:06:05 GMT
People powered up though dragon age origins too, then complained the game was too short. It happens all the time. There's a game called Two Worlds, and I shit you not, you can beat the game in less than 8-10 minutes. The final endgame boss is a character that's situated in a nearby town at the very beginning of the game. If you bait him into attacking you, but his attacks ends up hitting one of the townsfolk, they'll gang up on him and kill him; ending the game. Sounds like some of the Farcry games if you just sit at the start of the game for a period of time.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Dec 28, 2018 7:10:41 GMT
KOTOR has been done in 90 minutes or so. I can't leave Upper Taris in that time.
Fallout 2 can be done in less than 15 minutes.
And I bet I can finish Anthem in 4 hours 😀
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 28, 2018 7:44:33 GMT
I think there is an obvious difference between "there is only 3 hours of story content" and "I skipped through the story in 3 hours". Were a review to state the former I wouldn't automatically assume it to mean the latter. For example, when The Order 1886 was criticized for only having 4 hours or so of story content, it wasn't because the reviewers skipped through it. It was because the game was actually short.
BioWare's comments about this have at least partly been weasel statements that seemed to imply that the actual story play time is hard to determine, when it really isn't: it is the amount of story gameplay without skipping any content. They have made it clear that all story gameplay happens in Fort Tarsis, so all we really need to know is how much Fort Tarsis content exists.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 28, 2018 8:36:51 GMT
Speed-running a game is one thing. The length of the story told is another.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Dec 28, 2018 11:11:04 GMT
Can’t wait for the yongyea clickbait saying that the campaign is short! He's probably busy with Blizzard and Bethesda ATM...
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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2018 12:04:31 GMT
Can’t wait for the yongyea clickbait saying that the campaign is short! He's probably busy with Blizzard and Bethesda ATM... Speaking of Blizzard, this is them right now:
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Post by therevanchist25 on Dec 28, 2018 12:47:33 GMT
He's probably busy with Blizzard and Bethesda ATM... Speaking of Blizzard, this is them right now: Ironic, coming from the king of frauds, taking credit for other peoples inventions. The only thing Steve ever did was market said items to the plebs after the nameless drones did all the work making it. Wozniak was the actual genius.
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 28, 2018 20:29:30 GMT
This thread concept reads as incredibly fragile. What is it going to matter to you if some random yobbo claims whatever about the story length?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 29, 2018 1:54:23 GMT
that the actual story play time is hard to determine, when it really isn't: it is the amount of story gameplay without skipping any content. They have made it clear that all story gameplay happens in Fort Tarsis, so all we really need to know is how much Fort Tarsis content exists. The first part I agree with (and say more about below), but I don't think the second part is completely accurate. They've also said that story is conveyed in your Strider and in brief cutscenes during critpath missions. As for gameplay length, even "amount of story gameplay without skipping content" may have a lot of variability. Doing things in different orders may take different amounts of time, for example. But it doesn't matter, because I ultimately agree that this weaseling about the content length doesn't make sense, given that there is a completely objective and accurate way to measure content length. Just count up all the words of scripted NPC dialogue that made it to VO actor performances. That gives you a number that is comparable to previous Bioware SP games, and it even accounts for branching story content situations, like in DAI, where big chunks of content are locked and can't be accessed without a second playthrough. Just take the grand total, even if that's more than you can actually experience for practical purposes, because what matters is that, one way or another, the content is there to be experienced. As opposed to not being created in the first place, which is what I think people are actually worried about.
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,672 Likes: 6,654
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 29, 2018 9:27:42 GMT
PapaCharlie9You make some good points. VO lines are a good way to measure story content, whether I get to experience them or not. However, there might not be much, if any, branching story content in Anthem. I remember BioWare stating repeatedly that they want players to experience all the content in their games (not referring to Anthem in particular though), and online looter-shooters usually don't have a "new game" feature, so if there were any branching content, you might have missed the part you didn't choose for good. I am quite curious to see how BioWare is going to handle this.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 29, 2018 10:42:48 GMT
I doubt there will be classic storytelling in large quantities. They have an open world and a MP game. A bit of lore we don't know much about. Now if you were to ask me how to insert a bit of story into that I'd go and tell stories out there. Not in a sense of classic dialogue trees and hit-the-quest-marker stories but world-shaping events. For MP. So people in groups say: "This was fun. I wanna do it again." Events. Maybe recurring ones. Things popping up in unusual places. Map shaping events. A volcano, dried out river, weather, solar eclipse, wildlife, new places to visit.
Branching stories: In a shared world where every player gets to experience the same thing. That might turn out impossible in the end. You can't send out groups where every member would see a different world in the same group. If there is anything branching it is probably tied to the Fort and factions allowing you to unlock / gain favour with certain factions that offer different stuff to customise your playstyle.
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LogicGunn
N3
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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Post by LogicGunn on Dec 29, 2018 16:38:37 GMT
I don't get this need to be quickest, exploring a game fully is much more enjoyable than a quick and dirty grind.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 29, 2018 17:10:42 GMT
However, there might not be much, if any, branching story content in Anthem. Agreed, I'm expecting there to be zero branching content that impacts the shared world in Anthem. I mention it only because there is branching content in earlier SP games and if we're going to compare the word count numbers of Anthem to those earlier games, that has to be taken into account. For example, if Anthem is 10k words and no branching and DAI is 20k words, those counts are actually closer together than it may seem, because some of that 20k is locked behind a branch.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 29, 2018 17:18:24 GMT
I doubt there will be classic storytelling in large quantities. They have an open world and a MP game. A bit of lore we don't know much about. Now if you were to ask me how to insert a bit of story into that I'd go and tell stories out there. Not in a sense of classic dialogue trees and hit-the-quest-marker stories but world-shaping events. For MP. So people in groups say: "This was fun. I wanna do it again." Events. Maybe recurring ones. Things popping up in unusual places. Map shaping events. A volcano, dried out river, weather, solar eclipse, wildlife, new places to visit. Branching stories: In a shared world where every player gets to experience the same thing. That might turn out impossible in the end. You can't send out groups where every member would see a different world in the same group. If there is anything branching it is probably tied to the Fort and factions allowing you to unlock / gain favour with certain factions that offer different stuff to customise your playstyle. I agree that there won't be any classical Bioware style branching, not at the scale of DAI anyway. I also agree that the storytelling won't be like previous Bioware games in terms of quantity, that doesn't make sense in an MP-centric game either. I think the quality should be the same or better, though. However, what I do expect is storytelling that looks similar to ME and DA loyalty missions for companion NPCs. I'm expecting some kind of sequential story arcs for Haluk, Faye, and Owen, and those may very well have choices that cause branching in the relationship with that NPC. Nothing world shattering, nothing that influences the shared world -- again, for the reasons you stated. But there could be decision points that impact your relationship with that NPC going forward. Since that relationship is entirely personal and not shared with other Freelancers (who have the same NPCs as crew -- how are they going to explain that away?), it would be fine for me to have a hate relationship with Haluk and for you to have a love relationship with Haluk, because we made different choices during the critpath.
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