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Post by biggydx on Jan 2, 2019 17:41:47 GMT
With Anthem releasing in roughly two months, there's plenty of talk about how much content will be in the game. While the developers have often said that there's plenty to chew on, there's a contingent of players who will undoubtedly fly through the main campaign just to get the endgame experience. The activities of MMO-like games are often a test as to whether the games replayability holds up. Do you offer enough to keep your players constantly engaged, or will the scant content being provided trigger chants of the ever-popular, 'Where's the content?'
We live in a time where the MMO-lite, shooter genre has largely been defined by peoples perceptions of Destiny, as well as how Bungie has handled its content updates. Console players have gotten used to large content drops every few months because of it, but also don't want to front the typical MMO-like subscription fee in order to have the upkeep on said content. The calls for immediacy in new activities, gear, and sandbox updates is often too much for developers to keep up with. So much so in fact, that Bungie/Activision needed to contract two other studios (High Moon Studios and Vicarious Visions) in order to help with making Destiny's smaller DLC releases; such as Curse of Osiris and Warmind. The fallout has ultimately led to Bungie trying a new drip-feed method of delivering new content (dubbed the Annual Pass). Though new experiences are being added on a weekly/bi-weekly basis, players still voice their frustrations that there simply isn't enough to do, while more casual players suffered from simply not being leveled high enough to even engage in the Annual Passes new activities.
Keep in mind, this is a game (Destiny 2) that - currently - has the following:
- A vanilla Destiny 2 campaign of 6-8 hrs - Side missions (called Adventures) that add another 6-8 hrs) - Two DLC story campaigns that are 2-4hrs in length for both, with Adventures adding another 1-2 hr for both - The new Forsaken campaign that's at least 5-8 hrs (which doesn't even include the endgame map) - Numerous destination-themed activities like Public Events, Bounties, and Challenges - Newly added Forge activities (via the Black Armory addition introduced with the Annual Pass) - PvP (called the Crucible) with over 10 PvP maps, and 4 dedicated PvP playlists (one additional rotating PvP playlist) - A game mode called Gambit that combines player vs enemy and PvP - Periodic live events (such as a PvP mode called Iron Banner), as well as Seasonal events (recently, there was a Winter-themed event called The Dawning) - Three distinct classes (Titan, Hunter, and Warlock), all of which have their own subclasses - A loot progression system - Over 10 Strike Missions (10 - 20 minute Dungeons essentially) - 3 Raids and 2 smaller Raid Lairs - Multiple Triumphs to achieve, along with Seals (which are essentially name tags)
With Anthem shaping up to be more of a Diablo-style, loot-based game, BioWare is probably banking on people being okay with heavy repetition in completing the same few endgame activities over and over. That may be suitable for some players, but not everyone is going to accept what's been given; even with more content promised in the future.
I wanted to get the perspective of other BSN players here who are looking at Anthem as prospective buyers, or just watching from the sidelines. How much content is good enough for you? Do you mind there not being a breath of activities, so long as their highly replayable and fun? Or do you need to be able to hop into wholly unique activities, or have a new experience, every time you pick up the game?
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 2, 2019 18:11:58 GMT
Hi Biggy. I like your post, interesting train of thought. I agree it would be disappointing if we spend the money (especially for the Legion of Dawn Edition) and while we might enjoy it.....the Campaign is over in anywhere from 5 to 10 hours. That happened to me with COD III. I was really intrigued by the story, a espionage psycho-thriller, enjoying the missions, gameplay and combat....then all of a sudden *THUD* it seemed as though the game was over and the story ended before it really began. It was only a total of five hours long..and aside from MP and PVP gameplay there wasn't any reason to replay the game again.
My history with styles and types of games stem from and lean more towards games like KOTOR 1 and 2 (those games are the games that introduced me to RPGs and to Bioware though I was vaguely familiar with Buldar's Gate I had only played it a few times with a friend, and it wasn't anything serious). From there I got into Mass Effect and Dragon Age. And for many many years previous to that, I was a die-hard LucasArts fan...Games like Dark Forces and the Jedi Knight series. Those games had a reasonable length of story and they were just really fun to play. Sure, after even a few play-throughs you know where everyone and everything is-- there's no real game-play challenge there. But still, for me, they were just fun to play.
That being said, ANTHEM for me will be an adventure into new and different territory and while I will most certainly initially play for the story...I think, based on wht I have seen, heard and learned of the game, I think I will be 'going back for more' even after the Campaign is completed. The notion that the world changes and is different every time you play is intriguing to me. I don't have a laundry list of game requirements (except for a good story and interesting characters, because that is what I'm used to, especially in a Bioware game). I am willing to try something new and different and based on what I've seen, heard and learned thus far, ANTHEM I think, will deliver something that will have me coming back and continuing to play for a long, long time.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 2, 2019 19:05:30 GMT
I think a meaty campaign will do a lot to help. My hope is that Anthem will try smaller quest drops more frequently than the big content drops of Destiny, but with more large story content punctuating the quests released over time.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 2, 2019 19:31:35 GMT
I wanted to get the perspective of other BSN players here who are looking at Anthem as prospective buyers, or just watching from the sidelines. How much content is good enough for you? Do you mind there not being a breath of activities, so long as their highly replayable and fun? Or do you need to be able to hop into wholly unique activities, or have a new experience, every time you pick up the game? It's hard to answer such a broad question. I need to break it down into content categories, as you sort of did comparing to the D2 status quo (although it's looking like MH or Warframe might be more apt). There also needs to be an "at release" vs. live service update breakdown. "My Story" content: 30+ hours at release / a new top-tier (relationship/loyalty quest worthy) NPC introduced at least every 4 months via live service Critpath, minus "My Story" elements: 10 hours at launch / large expansions (on the order of D2 Forsaken, new biome/map) twice a year Events: Daily, Weekly, Seasonal Jobs, Contracts, minor missions: Quality over quantity here -- RDR2 "Stranger" missions are a good benchmark / bi-weekly additions Loot: Something between MEA (quantity over quality) and DAI (quality over quantity) / Monthly additions without retiring anything Lore: A ton at release / updates connected to Critpath expansions. Javelins: A new one every 3-4 months? Strongholds: 10 / add one every 3 months or so? At least connected with Critpath expansions. What I mean by "Critpath expansion" is effectively a traditional story DLC. New biome/map zone, new story with associated missions, maybe a new enemy faction, new NPCs, new loot, etc. So, on the order of week to week, I expect things to be repetitive, but rich and broad enough at launch that I can choose which repetitive thing I do. Makes sense? Like Tuesday I might want to just Free Play and pick elfroot, while on Wendesday I might want to tackle a Stronghold. One of the things I liked about Destiny is that, if I had 20 minutes to spare, I could just drop in and kill monsters, get treasure. That was fine. Overwatch and Fortnite have the same characteristic. They are great for occasional drop-in short sessions. But on the order of months, something new and significant will have to come along to be worth my attention and investment in time beyond a 20 minute drop in session.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jan 3, 2019 8:46:19 GMT
1l. 1.5l is often too much already. Especially when the carbonisation escapes or wossname - you know the sparkly. Then you're left with bland drink. 2l is definitely too much with easy escape and desparkling.
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 3, 2019 13:07:03 GMT
What I would like to see would be at least 40+ hrs. of story content (not just the my story), Lore, I want to feel as part of the world as possible to me with out it the game would just be a mindless shooter. content wise would like to see new content at a steady pace rather than waiting 2 years for new content, and lastly I would like to have a couple extra character slots play both genders and or start at the beginning to learn anything I may have missed with the first character. (that's if its possible to miss anything).
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Post by biggydx on Jan 3, 2019 15:22:20 GMT
What I would like to see would be at least 40+ hrs. of story content (not just the my story), Lore, I want to feel as part of the world as possible to me with out it the game would just be a mindless shooter. content wise would like to see new content at a steady pace rather than waiting 2 years for new content, and lastly I would like to have a couple extra character slots play both genders and or start at the beginning to learn anything I may have missed with the first character. (that's if its possible to miss anything). Can't say anything regarding the first two points you outlined, but BioWare have said that there will be multiple save slots for you. So if you want both a male and female Freelancer, across two separate saves, you can do that. That said, I don't think there would be any major differences in their dialogue if you do the same actions in Fort Tarsis; though picking different avenues may do so for both genders.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 3, 2019 15:48:17 GMT
There never will be enough for expectations are high anymore and its just not feasible with everything else people want or claim to want. I wish we could go back to a game like Mass Effect 1 where you could make a game that the critical path was only four to five hours long, but now with people wanting dozens of hours with the critical path it feels diluted out to stretch to make those artificial requirements.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2019 16:01:31 GMT
There never will be enough for expectations Possibly true as so much depends on what the individual player enjoys. I've never put less than 500 hours into any BioWare game (DAO onwards), though I also rarely fast travel and I'll collect every piece of [insert Elfroot equivalent] in the game.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 3, 2019 16:07:50 GMT
There never will be enough for expectations Possibly true as so much depends on what the individual player enjoys. I've never put less than 500 hours into any BioWare game (DAO onwards), though I also rarely fast travel and I'll collect every piece of [insert Elfroot equivalent] in the game. Of course, I replay the heck out of them. I find I am in the minority of people that will replay games. Even with replaying once for achievements seems to be unusual now.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2019 16:15:48 GMT
Of course, I replay the heck out of them. Indeed, I get full value from a BioWare game. It's not done unless everything's 100%ed / maxed. What happened to dedication?
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 3, 2019 16:28:55 GMT
Of course, I replay the heck out of them. Indeed, I get full value from a BioWare game. It's not done unless everything's 100%ed / maxed. What happened to dedication? Kids these days I tell you.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 3, 2019 16:33:29 GMT
Kids these days I tell you. Back in Baldur's Gate, you had to kill 2,000 Xvarts before you could get a half decent sword, and that was without the threat of picking up a cursed one.
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Post by natetrace on Jan 3, 2019 16:57:14 GMT
This is an interesting topic. I don't mind having a ton of content, especially how I play. With Andromeda, Inquisition or Fallout or Red Dead Redemption or whatever my first playthrough is always mostly the main path and very little side quest stuff, and on subsequent playthroughs I include more and more side quests. This helps me organize the game, I guess.
So if Anthem has a ton of content that'll be fine as I can have several playhtroughs where I do more each time. Ideally I would say I'd prefer a games campaign at around 30 hours, even if there is 200 plus hours of content.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 3, 2019 18:44:29 GMT
Indeed, I get full value from a BioWare game. It's not done unless everything's 100%ed / maxed. What happened to dedication? Kids these days I tell you. But god forbid you put 1400hrs into ME3 MP. You're only allowed to put those type of hours into a Single Player game with the mindset players have these days.
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Post by helios969 on Jan 3, 2019 19:39:58 GMT
Is there such a thing as enough? Maybe it's more what's the acceptable minimum. Ideally 25 hours of story mixed with excellent gameplay and diverse enemies to engage would satisfy my palate. Stuff like collecting, crafting, and customizing is occasionally cool to goof with but I don't want an entire game of simply that.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 4, 2019 8:35:03 GMT
One word: entitlement.
It will never be enough for some. But that's okay. You don't make a game for the few exceptions. You make a game for the majority. The triggered snowflakes may respond to this as they please, it won't change it.
I'm pretty confident (looking at BioWare's record) that the pre-elder game content will be sufficient. The only real question for me is: How much variation is there in elder game, and what are you going to do to keep me coming back? Or, alternatively, is it fun enough to keep me coming back WITHOUT the need for continuous additional content?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 4, 2019 19:38:48 GMT
You don't make a game for the few exceptions. Yes. You need some top end players to chase, but the core group is large numbers of ordinary average players. There's been some snark already that the 'best' weapons won't be available only to the elites who grind Strongholds on grandmaster 3 difficulty. BioWare making loot drops available to all (even if more rarely) is a good one.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jan 7, 2019 5:11:22 GMT
I keep getting the sense that Bioware is intentionally not gunning for the hardcores - they're just welcome to stay. At least, compared to any such similar game, Anthem's developers may listen least to "THERE'S NOTHING TO DO" Youtube videos, by intention. Instead, I see at least two paths: 1)Anthem releases, its the whole Tarsis and all that surrounding land, it gets updates over the months (potentially past an anniversary) and monetizes cosmetics as it provides new small to medium gameplay reasons to play with those cosmetics, every X weeks or 1-2 months. The game isn't a smash hit enough to justify further development so it stops there, or at least it is seen as more lucrative to develop a sequel for next-gen. 2)Anthem releases with its core content, it has its planned updates and monetized cosmetics. But it also utilizes further development to add features, modes, and my imagination even goes to NG+/campaign-renewal option as whole RP features are added like romance (LOL). Endgame is more enjoyed than expected, so resources go towards making more of that starting later 2019. Investment is approved for purchasable expansion(s) that greatly expand and vary the situations our Freelancers get in, to the point that Tarsis and surroundings become like the core eventual-tutorial-ish beginning parts of a MMO. To me, Bioware is considering the range of outcomes, because something like this game is more experimental (for their knowledge and patterns) than the last games. So far I will not lean on them just crapping out a few small updates and turning everything towards a 2021-22 sequel, but instead either taking the game for what it is but leaving the IP behind after, or loving the positive attention and income and so putting big team focus on continuing a life for Anthem for years - something new for them aside from SWTOR. Whatever endgame they have now (the Strongholds?) will either be all/almost all the endgame there is after any 2020 updates, or it'll end up being effectively harder-mode sidequests we can eventually solo easily enough while bigger endgame modes get added later (late 2019, 2020+). The devs are remarkably open ended about what this game can be. I will take this not as (only) them being sly and concealing what they'll market to us after, but instead/also that they're unsure whether they'll leave the game by the end of the year, or otherwise take live service seriously and semi-swiftly respond to player demands for types of content over time, with many forms of it already brainstormed/being tested out. The real endgame is the Mass Effect expansion through the shaper storm. 'Joke' aside, while I still will complain that the Anthem IP still looks too generic and uninspired, the plus I notice is that it literally could end up being almost anything, relatively speaking. They have a world setup that could go anywhere and do anything as long as it involves the core setting (which to be clear - I don't think is much; there's these mechs, a jungle, basic lore, basic factions, whatever).
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Post by PillarBiter on Jan 7, 2019 7:11:29 GMT
The real endgame is the Mass Effect expansion through the shaper storm. How cool of a cross-series expansion would that be?!?!
Like geralt dropping in on the monster hunter world through a portal, Shepard (or that... other one) being dropped in anthem through a shaper storm! Bringing his own mech, an adapted MAKO!
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 9, 2019 6:42:46 GMT
There are still people that complain that Destiny 2 doesn't have enough for them to do an all 3 characters. I deleted all but one of my characters because even the thought of trying to do all that crap with 3 characters was mind numbing. Then I realized that I am not the target audience for the endless endgame grind or the top tier elite activities and I was cool with that. As soon as I decided that I would only play the Destiny story content co-op and maybe do a little bit of grinding and some crucible I was much happier with the game. Of course I reached my own personal 'endpoint' faster than many others but I am also cool with that. I have way too many games to play anyway.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jan 9, 2019 14:35:13 GMT
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