Quickpaw
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Jan 12, 2019 1:09:05 GMT
It's just something I'd like to bring up to stir some discussion in regards to EA's Game Changers(TM) program that seems to be pumping out a lot of Anthem content on Youtube as of late.
Now this video here uses some strong language and reactionary views that I'm not in agreement with for a variety of reasons, but is an interesting contrast to the above mentioned Anthem footage boom by the likes of Ashe and RyanCentral.
Now I will point out that the reasons I'm mostly in disagreement to the "propagandist" viewpoint are thus:
1:All of the Game Changers(TM) that have so far released footage and content have fully disclosed their affiliation with said program, so there's no deceptive marketing going on.
2: There is NO opening of random chance rewards in any of their videos, nor any history of said channels doing such as far as I could tell. (He brings up the Madden and Fifa examples often in criticising the program, which has no real basis in the current Anthem boom)
3: Most if not all the Game Changers(TM) videos I've seen have displayed mostly tentative hope, with some having concerns and fears mentioned in the videos themselves. If EA had been promoting only positive outlooks this would not be the case. Ashe-Lady Insanity in particular had some serious concerns she brought up.
While I think there is SOME cause for concern over the recent influx of exclusively EA approved content-including the IGN videos- I don't take the hardline stance that any Game Changers(TM) funded content is automatically to be distrusted. For me whether it's been curated or not; it's still Anthem prerelease footage that will aide the consumer in deciding whether or not Anthem is a game they want to spend their money on.
Even in the worst case; such content (in combination with all other viewpoints) informs us and is valuable.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 12, 2019 1:13:21 GMT
Eh it’s not guys like him aren’t propagandists themselves.
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monkeylungs
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 1:23:05 GMT
Why give this guy hits?
EA Game Changers is a marketing campaign. They don't hide it, it is very upfront.
This fellow should actually write a script for his youtube videos if he wants to sit and talk for 12 minutes online because his freeform discussion is uninspired and sloppy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 1:29:18 GMT
Eh it’s not guys like him aren’t propagandists themselves. He's a straight up hypocrite of the highest order and he makes it clear in the first minute of his video. He says he isn't going to cover the game, while simultaneously covering the game.
Negativity spiral hate dogpile.
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Post by Kroitz on Jan 12, 2019 1:45:52 GMT
There'll be a demo, so I don't need sponsored or unsponsored, biased or unbiased opinions to inform my purchase.
Either the game speaks in it's own favor or it doesn't
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 1:53:09 GMT
There'll be a demo, so I don't need sponsored or unsponsored, biased or unbiased opinions to inform my purchase. Either the game speaks in it's own favor or it doesn't I wish more games would release a demo before they hit storefronts. |
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Post by OdanUrr on Jan 12, 2019 2:09:09 GMT
There'll be a demo, so I don't need sponsored or unsponsored, biased or unbiased opinions to inform my purchase. Either the game speaks in it's own favor or it doesn't I wish more games would release a demo before they hit storefronts. Apparently, they call it a beta now.  |
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monkeylungs
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 2:14:58 GMT
I wish more games would release a demo before they hit storefronts. Apparently, they call it a beta now. That is better than nothing .. but yeah a lot of 'betas' are just demos. |
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 12, 2019 2:22:13 GMT
That guy must have been dumped hard by Bioware, to be posting so many revenge videos.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 2:25:16 GMT
There'll be a demo, so I don't need sponsored or unsponsored, biased or unbiased opinions to inform my purchase. Either the game speaks in it's own favor or it doesn't I wish more games would release a demo before they hit storefronts. Or at a minimum not put a review embargo in place... |
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 2:26:41 GMT
That guy must have been dumped hard by Bioware, to be posting so many revenge videos. It might just be motivated by cash as well. There is money in negativity these days. |
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Post by smilesja on Jan 12, 2019 3:42:00 GMT
I wish more games would release a demo before they hit storefronts. Apparently, they call it a beta now.  |
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bshep
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jan 12, 2019 15:59:05 GMT
Just a piece of shit hunting for clicks on youtube. Nothing new to see.
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Post by river82 on Jan 12, 2019 20:14:31 GMT
Apparently, they call it a beta now. That is better than nothing .. but yeah a lot of 'betas' are just demos. Demos are small sections of the game used to entice those who haven't thought about buying the game to ... buy the game. They're traditionally not released in exchange for subscriptions or pre-orders. So I guess Bioware had to call it something else ... "beta" xD. Just call it "early access" or something |
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Post by river82 on Jan 12, 2019 20:20:41 GMT
A gaming company flying a bunch of journalists or influencers or whatever out to wherever, put them up in comfy hotels, and generally play the game under their watchful eye is definitely a problem in the industry. You won't talk negatively about a game if it jeopardises your ability to be flown out, or be an "influence/game changer" in the future.
That being said everybody's up front about it though so it's not as much of a problem here. But I would wait until those who have no skin in the game (that is, your normal everyday Joe/Jane) start posting their impressions before I'd make a decision.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 12, 2019 20:26:50 GMT
jeopardises your ability to be flown out Have you been to Stockholm in winter?  I see little downside to YouTubers telling it as it is. An 'edgy' YouTuber probably gets more clicks anyway, so being a channel of sufficient size to be offered a 'game changer' seat is probably more important than keeping it. |
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Post by river82 on Jan 12, 2019 20:32:40 GMT
jeopardises your ability to be flown out Have you been to Stockholm in winter? I see little downside to YouTubers telling it as it is. An 'edgy' YouTuber probably gets more clicks anyway, so being a channel of sufficient size to be offered a 'game changer' seat is probably more important than keeping it. There are plenty of edgy youtubers who get no clicks, and plenty of youtubers spouting positivity getting plenty. The people who get the most clicks tend to be those who addresses gaming concerns not typically addressed by journalists. There are plenty of advantages to keeping a seat as a "gamechanger", and whether they're telling things as they see it is what is in question. And at the end of the day it's much easier to trust the opinion of those who don't have any stakes in the game than any sort of youtuber, that fact is undeniable. |
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monkeylungs
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 20:43:42 GMT
I just view it as a marketing program that is less costly than television commercials and probably more effective. There are plenty of youtube personalities that review games and talk about game news that would not even accept an offer like this. I think there is plenty room for both.
I don't see why any youtuber that primarily covers Bioware games would really ever turn the opportunity down. Sounds pretty fun. If they end up really hating the game there is a still an angle for them to speak about it from the heart. If they lost their game changer status for saying what they felt I think they could use that to their advantage as well, at least in the short term.
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 12, 2019 21:02:12 GMT
WOW! that guy is a f.....g jerk sorry but he went out of his way to bad mouth EA/Bioware, I"m thinking hes just butt hurt he didn't get invited to go to Sweden to play  and with that attitude I can see why. really he doesn't want to spend the money on a EA/Bioware game? so why did he spend the money to bad mouth the same? |
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Post by smilesja on Jan 12, 2019 21:19:37 GMT
A gaming company flying a bunch of journalists or influencers or whatever out to wherever, put them up in comfy hotels, and generally play the game under their watchful eye is definitely a problem in the industry. You won't talk negatively about a game if it jeopardises your ability to be flown out, or be an "influence/game changer" in the future. That being said everybody's up front about it though so it's not as much of a problem here. But I would wait until those who have no skin in the game (that is, your normal everyday Joe/Jane) start posting their impressions before I'd make a decision. I don’t see the problem with this, it allows certain gamers early access. as long as the gamers and journalists disclose the fact that they were sponsored, then it’s no big deal. |
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Post by river82 on Jan 12, 2019 21:30:01 GMT
A gaming company flying a bunch of journalists or influencers or whatever out to wherever, put them up in comfy hotels, and generally play the game under their watchful eye is definitely a problem in the industry. You won't talk negatively about a game if it jeopardises your ability to be flown out, or be an "influence/game changer" in the future. That being said everybody's up front about it though so it's not as much of a problem here. But I would wait until those who have no skin in the game (that is, your normal everyday Joe/Jane) start posting their impressions before I'd make a decision. I don’t see the problem with this, it allows certain gamers early access. as long as the gamers and journalists disclose the fact that they were sponsored, then it’s no big deal. As long as its disclosed, preferably in big red letter or in a shouty voice at the beginning of the video, then it isn't a big deal. It's a marketing campaign, we get it. It does relate to the bigger issue of journalists, or in this case influencers, being too close to the gaming industry and at times developers, though. |
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Post by lennybusker on Jan 12, 2019 23:21:49 GMT
Journalists (as weakly as that label applies to these people) need to be adversarial towards their subjects to be as objective as possible. I'm not comfortable with them being wined and dined and flown out to places at no expense in order to preview (not even review) games under carefully controlled and curated circumstances. Especially when these journalists are, you know, basically just young folks who play games for a living. Far too easy for them to succumb to stars in their eyes by a situation like that. I felt the same way about SkillUp's somewhat recent rundown of Warframe (and full disclosure, I love that game and its devs) - it was fawning to the point of suspicion, considering how chummy he is/was with the devs themselves.
It's inevitable that you'll make personal and professional connections in the industry you cover as a critic. But it's important that you keep professional distance from PR events. I would not trust a film critic's reviews if they started doing trip reports to studios and shooting locations of upcoming movies and "reported" back facts that the studio wanted people to see. Let the devs and publishers do their own PR and marketing. The critics need to keep their distance.
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Post by river82 on Jan 13, 2019 1:58:34 GMT
Journalists (as weakly as that label applies to these people) need to be adversarial towards their subjects to be as objective as possible. I'm not comfortable with them being wined and dined and flown out to places at no expense in order to preview (not even review) games under carefully controlled and curated circumstances. Especially when these journalists are, you know, basically just young folks who play games for a living. Far too easy for them to succumb to stars in their eyes by a situation like that. I felt the same way about SkillUp's somewhat recent rundown of Warframe (and full disclosure, I love that game and its devs) - it was fawning to the point of suspicion, considering how chummy he is/was with the devs themselves. It's inevitable that you'll make personal and professional connections in the industry you cover as a critic. But it's important that you keep professional distance from PR events. I would not trust a film critic's reviews if they started doing trip reports to studios and shooting locations of upcoming movies and "reported" back facts that the studio wanted people to see. Let the devs and publishers do their own PR and marketing. The critics need to keep their distance. Also I have personally witnessed multiple smaller publications no longer be able to get their hands on review copies for games, let alone be wined and dined, for being "harsh" in their reviews. So basically forging good relationships with game companies can net you or your publication benefits, exclusive info or interviews, early access to games, and in the real world that tends to matter. So it's a bit more complicated. At the end of the day I tend to view gaming mags, and even large youtube channels, as a business. And as a business their primary goal isn't always to provide the consumer with objective analysis or thoughts. Tends to make me wonder whenever I watch one. I always like hitting up forums for info. Sure you get people with personal grudges or fanboys who always like to minimise any negative traits, but the opinions being expressed are their true thoughts and you can get some great analysis there. Smaller youtube channels also. |
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 13, 2019 2:19:33 GMT
Journalists (as weakly as that label applies to these people) need to be adversarial towards their subjects to be as objective as possible. I'm not comfortable with them being wined and dined and flown out to places at no expense in order to preview (not even review) games under carefully controlled and curated circumstances. Especially when these journalists are, you know, basically just young folks who play games for a living. Far too easy for them to succumb to stars in their eyes by a situation like that. I felt the same way about SkillUp's somewhat recent rundown of Warframe (and full disclosure, I love that game and its devs) - it was fawning to the point of suspicion, considering how chummy he is/was with the devs themselves. It's inevitable that you'll make personal and professional connections in the industry you cover as a critic. But it's important that you keep professional distance from PR events. I would not trust a film critic's reviews if they started doing trip reports to studios and shooting locations of upcoming movies and "reported" back facts that the studio wanted people to see. Let the devs and publishers do their own PR and marketing. The critics need to keep their distance. Also I have personally witnessed multiple smaller publications no longer be able to get their hands on review copies for games, let alone be wined and dined, for being "harsh" in their reviews. So basically forging good relationships with game companies can net you or your publication benefits, exclusive info or interviews, early access to games, and in the real world that tends to matter. So it's a bit more complicated. At the end of the day I tend to view gaming mags, and even large youtube channels, as a business. And as a business their primary goal isn't always to provide the consumer with objective analysis or thoughts. Tends to make me wonder whenever I watch one. I always like hitting up forums for info. Sure you get people with personal grudges or fanboys who always like to minimise any negative traits, but the opinions being expressed are their true thoughts and you can get some great analysis there. Smaller youtube channels also. I cannot agree nor can I disagree if the source is reliable yes I will listen if not …… well I take it with a grain of salt much like some news services and that's where I say no more  |
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Post by 10k on Jan 13, 2019 2:30:28 GMT
I really like coach toolshed. But this isn't really anything new. EA has always treated big fans of their games to things like this; flying them to places to play their new games. The things they say about the game isn't really "propaganda" given they're huge fans in the first place. It just that these people really won't have any hard criticisms, given they are huge fans, and they want to continue to be invited to events like this. It's just another way for EA to market the game essentially.
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and with that attitude I can see why. really he doesn't want to spend the money on a EA/Bioware game? so why did he spend the money to bad mouth the same? 
