[LORE] Spirits and Demons in Thedas
Jan 23, 2019 13:28:59 GMT
Heimdall, gervaise21, and 4 more like this
Post by arvaarad on Jan 23, 2019 13:28:59 GMT
This thread will be an exploration of the lore around spirits and demons. May contain unmarked spoilers for all Dragon Age media, games and otherwise. Also, spiders.
Views of spirits vary widely across the continent. And, as with everything in Dragon Age, no one speaks from a position of perfect neutrality, even in the World of Thedas books.
Where possible, I’ll be walking through information that comes from general consensus across all cultures, or direct experiences of the PC. Where significant disagreement exists, I’ll go over which people believe different things.
While no source is the word of god, some sources are generally assumed to be more credible than others. Codices from the Shattered Library, which were written by ancient elves before the formation of the Veil, are likely to be the most accurate… except for all the evanuris propaganda. Likewise, Solas comes from the pre-Veil era and created the Veil, so he generally knows what he’s talking about. On the flip side, we probably shouldn’t put much stock in the Andrastian view of spirits, since we’ve seen several of their core beliefs about spirits disproven with our own eyes. Spirits themselves are more of a mixed bag when it comes to learning reliable information. For reasons we’ll get into, they have pretty strong incentives to filter the truth.
To avoid being a rehash of the wiki, this post will also include some common fan theories, marked Speculation.
Spirits come from the Fade, and they each represent a specific idea or emotion. They become more powerful the more their concept is borne out in the waking world. Spirits sometimes fight each other. The remains from such fights are known as wisp wraiths.
Spirits aren’t mortal, but they aren’t exactly immortal either. Several sources, including Solas, attest to the idea that powerful spirits can come back after being killed, but there’s some fuzziness around what exactly comes back. Broadly, they represent the same concept as the slain spirit, but some personality details might have changed.
Since mages connect to the Fade in dreams, they may encounter spirits as they sleep. Many spirits seek to accomplish their goals by speaking to dreaming mages. If they want to move beyond speaking, they may become interested in crossing into the waking world.
This is much more difficult. Besides the Veil, they also have to contend with radically different rules in the waking world. For example, time is more fluid in the Fade (as in dreams), and objects lack permanence. This can cause confusion and disorientation when trying to cross over.
Spirits can exit the Fade under certain conditions.
With substantial effort or when next to a tear in the Veil, they can manifest as a shade. Shades are typically believed to be monstrous in appearance, though some, like Gaxkang, Imshael, and Cole, can take humanoid forms. Since Cole initially believed himself to be human, it’s a little unclear how often this happens. Perhaps some characters we currently see as mortal are actually shades.
A possibly easier approach is to cross the Veil by possession. Unfortunately, since the waking world is disorienting, they could have a difficult time controlling where they land. A possessed tree becomes a sylvan. Possessed rocks are called profanes, rock wraiths, or gangue. A possessed corpse may become a revenant or arcane horror, but usually just turns out as a walking corpse or skeleton. More esoteric objects like buildings can also be possessed. Living humanoids can be possessed too, and Andrastians refer to these spirit-mortal fusions as abominations. Usually, but not always (see Evangeline), possessed humanoids will be mages. Possessed objects, animals, or people gain new abilities, but they may lose some or all of their autonomy if the spirit is pushy. As far as we know, possession is the only way for mortals to gain certain powerful healing abilities, known as “spirit healing”, and possession can rescue someone on the brink of death.
The easiest option for crossing the Veil is by summoning. Among southern Andrastian mages, this is only sanctioned for wisps, which are used for simple tasks like lighting hallways or boosting spells. Tevinter mages do the same, but they’re more cavalier about summoning larger, potentially more dangerous spirits. The Dalish are also known for summoning extremely powerful spirits, often in an attempt to recover a piece of ancient elven history. All these forms of summoning impose some kind of leverage on the spirit, forcing it to stay imprisoned or do as the summoner wants. However, spirits can also be summoned for more mutually beneficial purposes. Both Rivaini and Avvar mages practice intentional spirit possession, so their summonings are less about compulsion and more about partnership. Nevarran mortalitasi do the same for corpses, allowing a spirit to inhabit a corpse as part of their death rites. However, the bodies are often bound or locked in a necropolis, so whether spirits appreciate this arrangement is a bit of an open question. Summoned spirits can also be used to reverse tranquility, a feature which seekers use in their initiation rites.
When we start talking about spirits vs. demons, it’s worth noting that many Thedosians don’t distinguish between the two.
Both southern and northern Andrastians generally believe in spirits and demons, though some, like Vivienne, more or less view all of them as demons. For most Andrastian mages, the distinction is simple. If the Fade denizen represents a virtue, like faith, compassion, or valor, it’s a spirit. If it represents a vice, like desire, sloth, or rage, it’s a demon. They don’t recognize the existence of morality-neutral spirits.
The Dalish often think of them as interchangeable, with all spirits being akin to wild animals; somewhat helpful, but dangerous as well. Under this view, spirits aren’t so much good/bad as they are operating under a completely different moral axis, with goals that may or may not align with mortals’ goals. As of DA2, it was thought that only Merrill held this view, but Clan Virnehn in The Masked Empire seemed to take a similar position. In substance, this is not too different from the Qunari view, which makes all spirits out to be demons.
For the Avvar, possession is a recognized phase of a mage’s growth. On top of this, Avvar gods (1) represent specific concepts, such as Winter and War and (2) follow a similar cycle of rebirth to the spirit rebirthing cycle described by Solas. We have fewer accounts directly from Avvar, but they seem to view spirits/gods who overstay their welcome as more bothersome or misguided than demonic.
Solas himself seems to fall somewhere between the Avvar and Dalish views of spirits. He acknowledges demons, but considers them to be corrupted or misunderstood spirits. For example, they might have gone mad while being pulled into the waking world through a Veil tear or summoning. Or they may in fact be good spirits encountering a mortal who expects to see demons, and it’s the mortal’s expectation that shapes them to match. He largely sees spirits as dangerous in the same way that natural phenomena are dangerous. Worthy of caution, but still worth seeing. He also provides some examples of common mappings between demons and spirits, saying a spirit of wisdom may be mistaken for pride, or a spirit of purpose may appear to be a desire demon.
The Shattered Library makes no mention of demons, even when speaking of the Forbidden Ones, who are currently regarded as demons. Considering that the evanuris thought of the Forbidden Ones as enemies, it’s very telling that they never call them demons. Perhaps more tellingly, there’s little direct reference to spirits at all, with spirits being casually referred to as “brethren” or similar. But more on that in a later section.
In DA2, we saw Justice change into a spirit/demon of vengeance, giving more credence to the transformation theory of demons. But how much of the change was a true shift in personality, and how much was just a change in mortals’ perception of him? It’s hard to say. Even in Awakening and very early in DA2, Justice has rigid ideas of how justice should be applied.
Several other spirits go through similar transformations.
Cole begins his story in Asunder, as the Ghost of the White Spire, a spirit of despair who kills mages condemned to the White Spire’s dungeon. After befriending Rhys, he shifts away from that approach, widening his options to more traditionally helpful acts. However, he’s still open to the idea of killing if it relieves suffering, and ending suffering remains his primary goal.
Solas’ spirit friend Wisdom temporarily turns into an aggressive pride demon after being summoned. After being freed or killed, it then reverts to a friendlier looking form, saying that it got to become itself again. Solas claims the transformation occurred because the summoners forced Wisdom to kill.
Nightmare is also said to have gone through a transformation. Per Cole’s read, Nightmare started out helping, taking the fears away. But now he creates fear. However, he still erases fears, so that part of his portfolio hasn’t gone away.
From these examples, we see that when a spirit starts being referred to as a demon (or vice versa), there’s usually no clear cut shift in their goals. It may simply be that their goals now happen to be in conflict with mortals’ goals. The exception is summoning/binding, which may alter or override their previous goals.
Most spirits we meet are on the much stronger end of the spectrum. A typical Fade spirit has great difficulty understanding the logic of the waking world, and may not even speak or interact with dreaming people in a coherent way. They may simply drift around the Fade, or attempt to mirror mortals’ thoughts and memories in the shifting landscapes of the Fade. For obvious reasons, we don’t get to talk to many of these spirits. Most of the spirits we meet have already been very successful… which means they tend to represent common/broad emotions or ideas that easily go viral.
There’s a sort of natural selection at work. Spirits who represent fast-replicating concepts gain more power and abilities, while spirits of slower-spreading ideas have less influence on the world. The Veil magnifies this selection pressure. So the spirits we meet have already been heavily selected for “sticky” ideas.
This may explain the current lack of “good” spirits, and why even “good” spirits seem to create lots of unintended consequences. In order to get strong enough to influence the waking world, a spirit must “farm” their emotion or idea. For example, a spirit of compassion might use mind wipes to relieve suffering. Not only does this remove the pain, it also keeps the person from learning from their mistakes, allowing for more opportunities to solve their problems again and again. A spirit who relieves fear might encourage the spread of the Blight, because it creates more fear to relieve. A spirit of justice might overcorrect toward revenge, because cycles of revenge create more injustices to right. A spirit of faith might encourage inaction, because continuing oppression requires more faith.
Of course “good” spirits are probably doing this unintentionally, but the outcome is the same. The mortal suffers again, the spirit gets an chance to fix things again (temporarily), and they ultimately get stronger. Perhaps there are good spirits that are truly good at their jobs, but they fix problems so permanently that they’re never relevant again.
In the Shattered Library, ancient elves refer to spirits as brethren, and it’s actually quite hard to distinguish when they’re talking about elves vs. spirits. Solas seems to have similar difficulty distinguishing between spirit friends and those in the waking world.
The evanuris appear to have abilities like Hakkon, including rebirth and an obsession with worship. They also mention exiling the Forbidden Ones “for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach”.
Cole reads several other thoughts along the same vein. “They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget.” This is likely a reference to titans, since titans are the pillars of the earth. If it is, then “they” are almost certainly the ancient elves, who fought the titans — meaning they made bodies of the earth. This is further reinforced by something Cole hears if he’s made more human. Solas says “I never thought to see it-” and Cole asks “when did you see it before?”, implying that Solas mentally ended that sentence with “-again.”
More specifically, Cole also reads “He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face.” This one is somewhat less clear, though current information points most strongly toward Mythal and Solas (who removes vallaslin, and has a scar right where Mythal’s vallaslin would land). If true, this would likely make Solas a former pride spirit, given his name.
Assuming both Hakkon and the evanuris are spirits, worship appears to be beneficial for spirits.
This makes intuitive sense; if spirits are more likely to be reborn when the idea giving them form is strong, why not artificially shore up the idea that supports you? We also know that spirits can be reborn slightly differently, giving a possible purpose to all the ancient elven propaganda against Solas and the Forbidden Ones. Change the perception, and the spirit changes with it.
Kirkwall has a thin Veil, the result of ancient Tevinter experiments. Per the Dragon Age tabletop RPG and NPCs in DA2, “virtue” names like Worthy are popular in the city. Given what we now know about Cole, this suggests that there may be shades going about their business throughout Kirkwall.
www.cgpgrey.com/blog/this-video-will-make-you-angry
freakonomics.com/2012/10/11/the-cobra-effect-full-transcript/
intelligence.org/files/Interruptibility.pdf
arxiv.org/pdf/1612.03242.pdf
Sources
Silence! Let the other one talk.
Views of spirits vary widely across the continent. And, as with everything in Dragon Age, no one speaks from a position of perfect neutrality, even in the World of Thedas books.
Where possible, I’ll be walking through information that comes from general consensus across all cultures, or direct experiences of the PC. Where significant disagreement exists, I’ll go over which people believe different things.
While no source is the word of god, some sources are generally assumed to be more credible than others. Codices from the Shattered Library, which were written by ancient elves before the formation of the Veil, are likely to be the most accurate… except for all the evanuris propaganda. Likewise, Solas comes from the pre-Veil era and created the Veil, so he generally knows what he’s talking about. On the flip side, we probably shouldn’t put much stock in the Andrastian view of spirits, since we’ve seen several of their core beliefs about spirits disproven with our own eyes. Spirits themselves are more of a mixed bag when it comes to learning reliable information. For reasons we’ll get into, they have pretty strong incentives to filter the truth.
To avoid being a rehash of the wiki, this post will also include some common fan theories, marked Speculation.
Basics
You think that pain will make you stronger? What fool filled your mind with such drivel? The only one who grows stronger from your fear is me.
Spirits come from the Fade, and they each represent a specific idea or emotion. They become more powerful the more their concept is borne out in the waking world. Spirits sometimes fight each other. The remains from such fights are known as wisp wraiths.
Spirits aren’t mortal, but they aren’t exactly immortal either. Several sources, including Solas, attest to the idea that powerful spirits can come back after being killed, but there’s some fuzziness around what exactly comes back. Broadly, they represent the same concept as the slain spirit, but some personality details might have changed.
Since mages connect to the Fade in dreams, they may encounter spirits as they sleep. Many spirits seek to accomplish their goals by speaking to dreaming mages. If they want to move beyond speaking, they may become interested in crossing into the waking world.
This is much more difficult. Besides the Veil, they also have to contend with radically different rules in the waking world. For example, time is more fluid in the Fade (as in dreams), and objects lack permanence. This can cause confusion and disorientation when trying to cross over.
Entering the Waking World
I couldn’t fight it in the Fade while it was trapped. And I couldn’t banish it without making it stronger. So I made myself its prison.
Spirits can exit the Fade under certain conditions.
With substantial effort or when next to a tear in the Veil, they can manifest as a shade. Shades are typically believed to be monstrous in appearance, though some, like Gaxkang, Imshael, and Cole, can take humanoid forms. Since Cole initially believed himself to be human, it’s a little unclear how often this happens. Perhaps some characters we currently see as mortal are actually shades.
A possibly easier approach is to cross the Veil by possession. Unfortunately, since the waking world is disorienting, they could have a difficult time controlling where they land. A possessed tree becomes a sylvan. Possessed rocks are called profanes, rock wraiths, or gangue. A possessed corpse may become a revenant or arcane horror, but usually just turns out as a walking corpse or skeleton. More esoteric objects like buildings can also be possessed. Living humanoids can be possessed too, and Andrastians refer to these spirit-mortal fusions as abominations. Usually, but not always (see Evangeline), possessed humanoids will be mages. Possessed objects, animals, or people gain new abilities, but they may lose some or all of their autonomy if the spirit is pushy. As far as we know, possession is the only way for mortals to gain certain powerful healing abilities, known as “spirit healing”, and possession can rescue someone on the brink of death.
The easiest option for crossing the Veil is by summoning. Among southern Andrastian mages, this is only sanctioned for wisps, which are used for simple tasks like lighting hallways or boosting spells. Tevinter mages do the same, but they’re more cavalier about summoning larger, potentially more dangerous spirits. The Dalish are also known for summoning extremely powerful spirits, often in an attempt to recover a piece of ancient elven history. All these forms of summoning impose some kind of leverage on the spirit, forcing it to stay imprisoned or do as the summoner wants. However, spirits can also be summoned for more mutually beneficial purposes. Both Rivaini and Avvar mages practice intentional spirit possession, so their summonings are less about compulsion and more about partnership. Nevarran mortalitasi do the same for corpses, allowing a spirit to inhabit a corpse as part of their death rites. However, the bodies are often bound or locked in a necropolis, so whether spirits appreciate this arrangement is a bit of an open question. Summoned spirits can also be used to reverse tranquility, a feature which seekers use in their initiation rites.
Spirits and Demons
Ah, the hero arrives. But is it hero, or murderer? It’s so hard to tell.
When we start talking about spirits vs. demons, it’s worth noting that many Thedosians don’t distinguish between the two.
Both southern and northern Andrastians generally believe in spirits and demons, though some, like Vivienne, more or less view all of them as demons. For most Andrastian mages, the distinction is simple. If the Fade denizen represents a virtue, like faith, compassion, or valor, it’s a spirit. If it represents a vice, like desire, sloth, or rage, it’s a demon. They don’t recognize the existence of morality-neutral spirits.
The Dalish often think of them as interchangeable, with all spirits being akin to wild animals; somewhat helpful, but dangerous as well. Under this view, spirits aren’t so much good/bad as they are operating under a completely different moral axis, with goals that may or may not align with mortals’ goals. As of DA2, it was thought that only Merrill held this view, but Clan Virnehn in The Masked Empire seemed to take a similar position. In substance, this is not too different from the Qunari view, which makes all spirits out to be demons.
For the Avvar, possession is a recognized phase of a mage’s growth. On top of this, Avvar gods (1) represent specific concepts, such as Winter and War and (2) follow a similar cycle of rebirth to the spirit rebirthing cycle described by Solas. We have fewer accounts directly from Avvar, but they seem to view spirits/gods who overstay their welcome as more bothersome or misguided than demonic.
Solas himself seems to fall somewhere between the Avvar and Dalish views of spirits. He acknowledges demons, but considers them to be corrupted or misunderstood spirits. For example, they might have gone mad while being pulled into the waking world through a Veil tear or summoning. Or they may in fact be good spirits encountering a mortal who expects to see demons, and it’s the mortal’s expectation that shapes them to match. He largely sees spirits as dangerous in the same way that natural phenomena are dangerous. Worthy of caution, but still worth seeing. He also provides some examples of common mappings between demons and spirits, saying a spirit of wisdom may be mistaken for pride, or a spirit of purpose may appear to be a desire demon.
The Shattered Library makes no mention of demons, even when speaking of the Forbidden Ones, who are currently regarded as demons. Considering that the evanuris thought of the Forbidden Ones as enemies, it’s very telling that they never call them demons. Perhaps more tellingly, there’s little direct reference to spirits at all, with spirits being casually referred to as “brethren” or similar. But more on that in a later section.
Transformations
No one else would have known his heart. He did not know it himself.
In DA2, we saw Justice change into a spirit/demon of vengeance, giving more credence to the transformation theory of demons. But how much of the change was a true shift in personality, and how much was just a change in mortals’ perception of him? It’s hard to say. Even in Awakening and very early in DA2, Justice has rigid ideas of how justice should be applied.
Several other spirits go through similar transformations.
Cole begins his story in Asunder, as the Ghost of the White Spire, a spirit of despair who kills mages condemned to the White Spire’s dungeon. After befriending Rhys, he shifts away from that approach, widening his options to more traditionally helpful acts. However, he’s still open to the idea of killing if it relieves suffering, and ending suffering remains his primary goal.
Solas’ spirit friend Wisdom temporarily turns into an aggressive pride demon after being summoned. After being freed or killed, it then reverts to a friendlier looking form, saying that it got to become itself again. Solas claims the transformation occurred because the summoners forced Wisdom to kill.
Nightmare is also said to have gone through a transformation. Per Cole’s read, Nightmare started out helping, taking the fears away. But now he creates fear. However, he still erases fears, so that part of his portfolio hasn’t gone away.
From these examples, we see that when a spirit starts being referred to as a demon (or vice versa), there’s usually no clear cut shift in their goals. It may simply be that their goals now happen to be in conflict with mortals’ goals. The exception is summoning/binding, which may alter or override their previous goals.
Speculation: Perverse Incentives
”Don’t worry, we’ll erase his records.” They clap me on the shoulder, smell of oiled metal and blood.
Most spirits we meet are on the much stronger end of the spectrum. A typical Fade spirit has great difficulty understanding the logic of the waking world, and may not even speak or interact with dreaming people in a coherent way. They may simply drift around the Fade, or attempt to mirror mortals’ thoughts and memories in the shifting landscapes of the Fade. For obvious reasons, we don’t get to talk to many of these spirits. Most of the spirits we meet have already been very successful… which means they tend to represent common/broad emotions or ideas that easily go viral.
There’s a sort of natural selection at work. Spirits who represent fast-replicating concepts gain more power and abilities, while spirits of slower-spreading ideas have less influence on the world. The Veil magnifies this selection pressure. So the spirits we meet have already been heavily selected for “sticky” ideas.
This may explain the current lack of “good” spirits, and why even “good” spirits seem to create lots of unintended consequences. In order to get strong enough to influence the waking world, a spirit must “farm” their emotion or idea. For example, a spirit of compassion might use mind wipes to relieve suffering. Not only does this remove the pain, it also keeps the person from learning from their mistakes, allowing for more opportunities to solve their problems again and again. A spirit who relieves fear might encourage the spread of the Blight, because it creates more fear to relieve. A spirit of justice might overcorrect toward revenge, because cycles of revenge create more injustices to right. A spirit of faith might encourage inaction, because continuing oppression requires more faith.
Of course “good” spirits are probably doing this unintentionally, but the outcome is the same. The mortal suffers again, the spirit gets an chance to fix things again (temporarily), and they ultimately get stronger. Perhaps there are good spirits that are truly good at their jobs, but they fix problems so permanently that they’re never relevant again.
Speculation: Elves
It was the elves who planted the seeds, raised the forest, saw to its needs. But that was all so long ago. That they are dead is all I know.
In the Shattered Library, ancient elves refer to spirits as brethren, and it’s actually quite hard to distinguish when they’re talking about elves vs. spirits. Solas seems to have similar difficulty distinguishing between spirit friends and those in the waking world.
The evanuris appear to have abilities like Hakkon, including rebirth and an obsession with worship. They also mention exiling the Forbidden Ones “for casting aside form to flee to where the Earth could not reach”.
Cole reads several other thoughts along the same vein. “They made bodies from the earth. And the earth was afraid. It fought back. But they made it forget.” This is likely a reference to titans, since titans are the pillars of the earth. If it is, then “they” are almost certainly the ancient elves, who fought the titans — meaning they made bodies of the earth. This is further reinforced by something Cole hears if he’s made more human. Solas says “I never thought to see it-” and Cole asks “when did you see it before?”, implying that Solas mentally ended that sentence with “-again.”
More specifically, Cole also reads “He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face.” This one is somewhat less clear, though current information points most strongly toward Mythal and Solas (who removes vallaslin, and has a scar right where Mythal’s vallaslin would land). If true, this would likely make Solas a former pride spirit, given his name.
Speculation: Worship and Propaganda
Lowlanders! I am the breath of winter, the cold wind of war. Join me in battle and die!
Assuming both Hakkon and the evanuris are spirits, worship appears to be beneficial for spirits.
This makes intuitive sense; if spirits are more likely to be reborn when the idea giving them form is strong, why not artificially shore up the idea that supports you? We also know that spirits can be reborn slightly differently, giving a possible purpose to all the ancient elven propaganda against Solas and the Forbidden Ones. Change the perception, and the spirit changes with it.
Speculation: Kirkwall
I am a cat. Really.
Kirkwall has a thin Veil, the result of ancient Tevinter experiments. Per the Dragon Age tabletop RPG and NPCs in DA2, “virtue” names like Worthy are popular in the city. Given what we now know about Cole, this suggests that there may be shades going about their business throughout Kirkwall.
Further Reading
I was connection. One city could read the records of another, one elvhen feel the memories of another. When the Veil fell upon us, I marked the end of all they knew.
www.cgpgrey.com/blog/this-video-will-make-you-angry
freakonomics.com/2012/10/11/the-cobra-effect-full-transcript/
intelligence.org/files/Interruptibility.pdf
arxiv.org/pdf/1612.03242.pdf