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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 2, 2019 14:39:14 GMT
This is something that needs to be discussed because it's unfortunate that one of four javelins is basically useless. I know there are plenty of Colossus fans who will disagree, but let's just look into the facts before we open up this discussion. Let's take a look at the other 3 javelins: 1. All have a naturally occurring spherical shield that blocks incoming damage from all directions 2. All have the ability to dodge to avoid damage 3. All have the ability to both attack and dodge while their shield is up Now let's take a look at the Colossus: 1. No natural spherical shield 2. No ability to dodge to avoid damage 3. Deployable shield takes place of dodge function, only blocks damage in one direction 4. No ability to attack while shielding Now I understand that with better equipment, components, etc the javelins health and shields can potentially be massive, but it's hp pool will have to get pretty damn high to compete with the other javelins. The only hope for the Colossus as of now is that items at higher levels/rarity will make it unkillable. The survivability of every other javelin far outshines the Colossus and that doesn't even take into account their ability to apply constant damage while surviving. At the very least the Colossus needs the ability to attack while shielding. I'm struggling to come up even one good reason why anyone should play the Colossus over any other javelin besides "I like it" or "it looks cool" or "it can charge into things". I'm begging for you guys to tell me. Lastly, I won't say it's completely useless. Any javelin can be viable with sufficient items/leveling/skill. But the Colossus simply pales in comparison to the competition. (Pictured: Donatello Colossus I created back when I was excited to play it)  |
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Post by alexious on Feb 2, 2019 15:21:14 GMT
There should definitely be the ability to attack, at least with melee, while shielding. And to reload as well.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Ajscott819
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Post by ajscott819 on Feb 2, 2019 15:24:41 GMT
I was able to do a shield bash when the shield was deployed.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 2, 2019 15:26:02 GMT
I think the Colussus needs a shield system like the rest of the Javelins and also some immunity to knock as a perk. Other than that I had little problem inflicting massive damage and attracting enemies so the rest of my team could kill them.
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 2, 2019 16:02:42 GMT
When I say "attack" I mean shoot and use abilities/equipment. The shield bash is nothing, especially considering your shield is no longer covering you for the duration of the animation
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Post by giubba on Feb 2, 2019 16:18:13 GMT
This is something that needs to be discussed because it's unfortunate that one of four javelins is basically useless. I know there are plenty of Colossus fans who will disagree, but let's just look into the facts before we open up this discussion. Let's take a look at the other 3 javelins: 1. All have a naturally occurring spherical shield that blocks incoming damage from all directions 2. All have the ability to dodge to avoid damage 3. All have the ability to both attack and dodge while their shield is up Now let's take a look at the Colossus: 1. No natural spherical shield 2. No ability to dodge to avoid damage 3. Deployable shield takes place of dodge function, only blocks damage in one direction 4. No ability to attack while shielding Now I understand that with better equipment, components, etc the javelins health and shields can potentially be massive, but it's hp pool will have to get pretty damn high to compete with the other javelins. The only hope for the Colossus as of now is that items at higher levels/rarity will make it unkillable. The survivability of every other javelin far outshines the Colossus and that doesn't even take into account their ability to apply constant damage while surviving. At the very least the Colossus needs the ability to attack while shielding. I'm struggling to come up even one good reason why anyone should play the Colossus over any other javelin besides "I like it" or "it looks cool" or "it can charge into things". I'm begging for you guys to tell me. Lastly, I won't say it's completely useless. Any javelin can be viable with sufficient items/leveling/skill. But the Colossus simply pales in comparison to the competition. (Pictured: Donatello Colossus I created back when I was excited to play it) I completely agree with your points.
Even taking in account the know issue of the demo that brake the extra armor decoration and basically nullify its purpose (which is vital atm for colossus), this javelin is at the moment a (very good) one trick pony with the combo electric coil+flamethrower for close range and trash cleaning but the lack of force shields like the other javelin and the massive penalty that you face if your deploy able shield brake render it's supposed tank role pretty much impossible to fulfill.
I'm not against him not being able to use any form of dodge because it doesn't fit its playstyle but the stuff that should cover the lack of these mechanic works a lot worse than they should.
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Post by Kelwing on Feb 2, 2019 16:45:15 GMT
There should definitely be the ability to attack, at least with melee, while shielding. And to reload as well. It can attack with shield out. A rather nasty shield smack. I've killed bubble shielded targets doing that only. Even attacking gun turrets from range then flying straight at them with shield up. Then drop on it with a shield slam. BOOM, no more turret.
Hard to reload if shield is out. That arm is kinda being used for more important things like holding the shield up so you don't take a sniper round to the face. I just switch to the second weapon that is loaded. Reload other when time is appropriate.
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Post by PostGameParty on Feb 2, 2019 16:57:55 GMT
I've really enjoyed playing the Colossus and don't think its that bad, but definitely agree that you should be able to attack in some form (abilities or shooting) with the shield up.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 2, 2019 17:27:08 GMT
It's why I dint pick it for the javelin unlock.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 2, 2019 17:30:49 GMT
I sincerely doubt the colossus (or indeed any javelin) needs a rework yet. Clearly it is possible to build a colossus powerhouse if you want.
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Post by giubba on Feb 2, 2019 17:49:29 GMT
I sincerely doubt the colossus (or indeed any javelin) needs a rework yet. Clearly it is possible to build a colossus powerhouse if you want. ranger,storm and interceptor are already in a sweet spot except for some real real minor change that depends on personal taste but imho colossus is at the moment lacking something that make him unable to fulfill its alleged role as tanky jav .
After some hours you develop your timing in deploying your shield so you can avoid taking major damage but this prevent only damage that came from the front and you constantly face waves of mobs that easily sneak on your back and tear you to shred, plunging you to the red zone which once you are in it's easier to shift again in the dead zone than make a come back to the healthy half of the HP bar because you must play more aggressively for gain med packs which expose you to a higher chance of being surrounded etc.
It's a vicious circle which is not easy to break.
Another thing is that when the storm or ranger brake their shield they do not suffer from a stunlock animation that make you completely helpless
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 2, 2019 18:07:25 GMT
Just FYI, I'm using stronghold on hard mode as the measurement for all the javelins potential. If you're playing on normal or even freeplay on hard mode, any instance that you feel the Colossus is easy to use or even tanky is a false representation because the area is so easy to survive in. I've played freeplay on hard and had no problem with the Colossus.
When you're playing stronghold on hard, a sniper takes 90% of your shield in one shot, an elite destroys your shield and stunlocks you for a second as the rest of the enemies shred your health bar you'll understand what I mean. I put in hours on the Colossus before I made this post because I wanted to be wrong about my initial impression, but all I did was confirm it.
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Post by Talon on Feb 2, 2019 18:13:25 GMT
As much as I love the Colossus overall, it's definitely not going to be my first (maybe not even second) pick when Anthem goes live. It has way too high a learning curve, combine that with a low Pilot rating, and I'll be respawning constantly. Today, at level 14, with a 123 level Colossus, I got melted by a machine gun turret and an elite Scar Hunter. I was stuck between the two in a tight area, and it only took seconds. Can't dodge, shield only one direction, can't attack with shield up, automatic weapons incoming = ouch. If we can't dodge, then we really do need a permanent shield, don't take both away from us.
Right now, I think it's best role is going to be taunt, place shield, and let your team beat up the baddies, or for heavy damage on a boss, not really great for solo.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 2, 2019 19:22:43 GMT
It's too early to say. Maybe it's more a matter of figuring out how to play the suit optimally than the suit needs a rework.
Also, I thought Colossus components help? Like add 20 bars of health? That's what I would expect from an aggro-attracting, physical shield-bearing, high peak DPS/low sustained DPS role, tons of health. Notice I didn't use the T word.
BTW, once Colossus has health buffs, I wonder if it might not be the best sniper suit? You don't even have to worry about cover, just stand and shoot.
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Post by Talon on Feb 2, 2019 19:58:10 GMT
It's too early to say. Maybe it's more a matter of figuring out how to play the suit optimally than the suit needs a rework. Also, I thought Colossus components help? Like add 20 bars of health? That's what I would expect from an aggro-attracting, physical shield-bearing, high peak DPS/low sustained DPS role, tons of health. Notice I didn't use the T word. BTW, once Colossus has health buffs, I wonder if it might not be the best sniper suit? You don't even have to worry about cover, just stand and shoot. It probably is partly a matter of needing more practice, and trying some different builds. Also, I think the devs said that Colossus armor is bugged in the demo, and is stacking less than it should. And now I want to try a sniper/mortar/artillery build. Ranged heavy weapons support? |
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 2, 2019 20:17:32 GMT
Well, the prospect of hunting random health powerups on the ground all the time isn't my idea of playing javelins.
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Post by acehilator on Feb 2, 2019 21:01:55 GMT
Well with most Colossus builds you are already standing in between health pickups, so no problem there. The only dangerous opponents are MG turrets (easily disabled), and the flying Scar guys with MGs. So I am not really seeing the problem.
Also, don't use the taunt skill, it's a trap. 33% damage reduction for the whole team is way too powerful, and will likely be mandatory for GM1 and upwards.
I'd rather wish more selfproclaimed Storm tryhards would equip the Lightning primer, so they can prime shields and allow the whole group to kill shielded enemies faster.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Feb 2, 2019 21:22:46 GMT
There should definitely be the ability to attack, at least with melee, while shielding. And to reload as well. Agree on the attack. It is even weird because there is a cutscene i saw on youtube where it is show a Colossus holding the shield on the left and shoting with his right hand.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 2, 2019 21:28:28 GMT
I sincerely doubt the colossus (or indeed any javelin) needs a rework yet. Clearly it is possible to build a colossus powerhouse if you want. ranger,storm and interceptor are already in a sweet spot except for some real real minor change that depends on personal taste but imho colossus is at the moment lacking something that make him unable to fulfill its alleged role as tanky jav .
After some hours you develop your timing in deploying your shield so you can avoid taking major damage but this prevent only damage that came from the front and you constantly face waves of mobs that easily sneak on your back and tear you to shred, plunging you to the red zone which once you are in it's easier to shift again in the dead zone than make a come back to the healthy half of the HP bar because you must play more aggressively for gain med packs which expose you to a higher chance of being surrounded etc.
It's a vicious circle which is not easy to break.
Another thing is that when the storm or ranger brake their shield they do not suffer from a stunlock animation that make you completely helpless
I don't know. I've seen people tank pretty well with the colossus. So I think it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early start the buff/nerf threads. 
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 2, 2019 21:33:19 GMT
Came here looking for the obvious comment; if this were ME3MP it would have been the first response -
Git gud?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 2, 2019 21:37:15 GMT
I'd rather wish more selfproclaimed Storm tryhards would equip the Lightning primer, so they can prime shields and allow the whole group to kill shielded enemies faster. Disclaimer: I haven't played the demos, all I know is what I've read from abilities and status effects. You might not be seeing Shock Burst (the only electricity primer Storm has) being equipped that much, because it competes with Frost Shards (also a primer) for the same slot. In these early days, Storm players are probably getting more overall utility out of Frost Shards. At least both of them do more damage to enemy shields.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: SylvaeDragon
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Post by Sylvae on Feb 2, 2019 21:39:53 GMT
I agree, Colosus is the least enjoyable javelin for me right now, doesn't feel very tanky as of now (I think that's its role, right? :-) ), and if it's meant as a bullet sponge, it's far away from it, especialy on Hard dificulty.
Now, the idea of a hulking sniper, that sounds interesting... :-D
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Giubba
PSN: Giubba1985
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Post by giubba on Feb 2, 2019 21:42:44 GMT
Which is what I wanted to try if I would ever find a fire wall mortar for trying a more ranged set up Came here looking for the obvious comment; if this were ME3MP it would have been the first response - Git gud? ranger,storm and interceptor are already in a sweet spot except for some real real minor change that depends on personal taste but imho colossus is at the moment lacking something that make him unable to fulfill its alleged role as tanky jav .
After some hours you develop your timing in deploying your shield so you can avoid taking major damage but this prevent only damage that came from the front and you constantly face waves of mobs that easily sneak on your back and tear you to shred, plunging you to the red zone which once you are in it's easier to shift again in the dead zone than make a come back to the healthy half of the HP bar because you must play more aggressively for gain med packs which expose you to a higher chance of being surrounded etc.
It's a vicious circle which is not easy to break.
Another thing is that when the storm or ranger brake their shield they do not suffer from a stunlock animation that make you completely helpless
I don't know. I've seen people tank pretty well with the colossus. So I think it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early start the buff/nerf threads. Which is not the problem here. The colossus is viable with flamethrowers + coil combo point is that at the moment do a mediocre job at what it should be its role |
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Origin: SylvaeDragon
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Post by Sylvae on Feb 2, 2019 21:43:38 GMT
I'd rather wish more selfproclaimed Storm tryhards would equip the Lightning primer, so they can prime shields and allow the whole group to kill shielded enemies faster. Disclaimer: I haven't played the demos, all I know is what I've read from abilities and status effects. You might not be seeing Shock Burst (the only electricity primer Storm has) being equipped that much, because it competes with Frost Shards (also a primer) for the same slot. In these early days, Storm players are probably getting more overall utility out of Frost Shards. At least both of them do more damage to enemy shields. Agreed. I love playing Storm the most and it's better (and easier) to make a build around a Frost than Shock - at least in demo, I guess full game would be way different story. :-)
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 2, 2019 22:40:25 GMT
I appreciate all the feedback from you guys thus far. FYI to all involved, I have put in plenty of time as the colossus and have done multiple runs through stronghold/hard. At the end of the day people are going to find a way to be successful with a flawed class, just like any other game. If you throw the right gear on it, have the right teammates who coordinate their attacks perfectly, or the right scenarios play out you can find success. My basic gripe is with the fundamental playstyle of the Colossus and what I foresee in the final product.
First of all, let's call it what it is. The Colossus IS a tank. It has components that add massive hp and it relies on those and/or moving through crowds of enemies to pick up health drops to survive. It's big and slow, and doesn't have a dodge ability, meaning it is literally forced to "tank" enemy fire rather than avoid it. This gives the Colossus only one real playstyle, unlike the others who have the ability to switch it up with their kits.
It would make more sense to me for it to have a shield like the other javelins and for the hand shield to be a true replacement for the dodge ability as a supplement to your natural shield. This would allow for a more natural feeling tank and for the devs to scale back the hp on the Colossus components so that the Colossus doesn't go from feeling a class below at lower levels to OP late game. This would also reinforce the notion of multiple playstyles as you could sit back and act like a giant agent of explosive destruction, launching projectiles into crowds, snipers and those pesky shielded enemies without watching your hp melt away while your shield isn't out. Or you could charge into the enemy, hand shield out, and be a true tank,
I'd think those who have put in as many hours as I have into the Colossus would understand, but then again I'll admit that most who put in that much time as the Colossus probably haven't also put as much time into the other javelins as I have. This is what gives me perspective on it's place among the others. This discussion is also giving me and hopefully others perspective on the Colossus' potential. I'm excited for what the final product has in store.
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