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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 7, 2017 22:00:47 GMT
Separate post because, idk, feel like I should.Despite all that, I do still like the way blue responses make Anders flirt: Anders:...I got a bit weighty the last time we talked. Sorry for putting that on you. Hawke: You can tell me anything. Anders: Anything? Be careful what you offer. I just... I hope I didn't seem too selfish when I told you about Justice. I didn't know what would happen. I figured a willing host, a friend... it had to be better than playing the demon and haunting some corpse. Hawke: We can't always predict the outcome of our actions. We can only make them with a true heart. Anders: Well. Under that scruffy exterior, I think you've got a bit of a soft heart yourself. Lastly, a question: I remember reading that it was impossible to start a romance without having at least flirted with the person in each act? I suppose it was a good thing that I was forced to flirt in that case because I wouldn't want to backtrack again, but I was going to pick a flirt or two in the 2nd Act anyway.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 7, 2017 22:03:05 GMT
+15 rivalry, if Hawke refuse his flirts. I think, this fit his character, in fact so honest. You know, Anders in many times roughly honest. And jealous. So: he shows his disappointments, but the friendship still open, I saw a video, his voice slightly offended, but he get over it quickly. So: this is Anders. Not perfect. Everyone handle the disappointment in another way. He this way. Not a restrained gentleman, rather passionate.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 7, 2017 22:55:23 GMT
Just played through the rejections, and I still picked blue and once a purple speech option so I only got 10-5 rival points.
Anders being brusque with Merrill is a flaw. Getting rivalry for rejecting him in a situation where the player can ONLY flirt or reject is just... a game flaw.
Anders has only just met Hawke, I don't see how some small attraction of his being turned down would warrant such a reaction -- for all his issues he is not that fragile, and it's possible he even faced similar before. It's like punishing the player for being stuck in a situation they can't control. There's hardly anything for him to be jealous or that resentful about either. It just seems needlessly petty. Anders could very well have shrugged it off like he does without the rivalry gain.
I could see it working when Hawke actually flirts first, then Anders flirts, and then Hawke is like NOPE so Anders is WTF? Because that's exactly how the conversation can go and in that case Hawke is being an ass.
Or if Hawke expresses disgust by the idea of Anders and Karl together, which is one of the rejections. Rivalry makes sense there.
The very first rejection with an actual broken heart icon, which ends the conversation before it can even start, does not gain any rivalry. But why is that even a "rejection" in the first place?
It doesn't feel like "character" to me, it feels like poor implementation. Or pushy writing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 23:03:32 GMT
Just played through the rejections, and I still picked blue amen once a purple speech options so I only got 10-5 rival points. Anders being brusque with Merrill is a flaw. Getting rivalry for rejecting him in a situation where the player can ONLY flirt or reject is just... a game flaw. Anders has only just met Hawke, I don't see how some small attraction of his being turned down would warrant such a reaction -- for all his issues he is not that fragile, and it's possible he even faced similar before. It's like punishing the player for being stuck in a situation they can't control. There's hardly anything for him to be jealous or that resentful about either. It just seems needlessly petty. Anders could very well have shrugged it off like he does without the rivalry gain. I could see it working when Hawke actually flirts first, then Anders flirts, and then Hawke is like NOPE so Anders is WTF? Because that's exactly how the conversation can go and in that case Hawke is being an ass. Or if Hawke expresses disgust by the idea of Anders and Karl together, which is one of the rejections. Rivalry makes sense there. The very first rejection with an actual broken heart icon, which ends the conversation before it can even start, does not gain any rivalry. But why is that even a "rejection" in the first place? It doesn't feel like "character" to me, it feels like poor implementation. Or pushy writing. Feels more like game convenience for certain male players to cut off flirting asap, and to set a character on a rival path asap if that's what they are after. I had an interesting reaction from him when I tried to flirt too late in the game, and he went all sad, and said something like please don't I will only break your heart. It was so sweet.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 7, 2017 23:04:44 GMT
Just played through the rejections, and I still picked blue amen once a purple speech options so I only got 10-5 rival points. Anders being brusque with Merrill is a flaw. Getting rivalry for rejecting him in a situation where the player can ONLY flirt or reject is just... a game flaw. Anders has only just met Hawke, I don't see how some small attraction of his being turned down would warrant such a reaction -- for all his issues he is not that fragile, and it's possible he even faced similar before. It's like punishing the player for being stuck in a situation they can't control. There's hardly anything for him to be jealous or that resentful about either. It just seems needlessly petty. Anders could very well have shrugged it off like he does without the rivalry gain. I could see it working when Hawke actually flirts first, then Anders flirts, and then Hawke is like NOPE so Anders is WTF? Because that's exactly how the conversation can go and in that case Hawke is being an ass. Or if Hawke expresses disgust by the idea of Anders and Karl together, which is one of the rejections. Rivalry makes sense there. The very first rejection with an actual broken heart icon, which ends the conversation before it can even start, does not gain any rivalry. But why is that even a "rejection" in the first place? It doesn't feel like "character" to me, it feels like poor implementation. (But maybe only +10 rivalry, I can't remember.) As I see, probably he rather angry at himself. (He has put himself in an awkward situation.) A lot of anger inside him at the moment, and finally he felt some happiness. Simple disappointed.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 7, 2017 23:06:27 GMT
Just played through the rejections, and I still picked blue amen once a purple speech options so I only got 10-5 rival points.
Anders being brusque with Merrill is a flaw. Getting rivalry for rejecting him in a situation where the player can ONLY flirt or reject is just... a game flaw.
Anders has only just met Hawke, I don't see how some small attraction of his being turned down would warrant such a reaction -- for all his issues he is not that fragile, and it's possible he even faced similar before. It's like punishing the player for being stuck in a situation they can't control. There's hardly anything for him to be jealous or that resentful about either. It just seems needlessly petty. Anders could very well have shrugged it off like he does without the rivalry gain.
I could see it working when Hawke actually flirts first, then Anders flirts, and then Hawke is like NOPE so Anders is WTF? Because that's exactly how the conversation can go and in that case Hawke is being an ass.
Or if Hawke expresses disgust by the idea of Anders and Karl together, which is one of the rejections. Rivalry makes sense there.
The very first rejection with an actual broken heart icon, which ends the conversation before it can even start, does not gain any rivalry. But why is that even a "rejection" in the first place?
It doesn't feel like "character" to me, it feels like poor implementation. Or pushy writing. Feels more like game convenience for certain male players to cut off flirting asap, and to set a character on a rival path asap if that's what they are after. I had an interesting reaction from him when I tried to flirt too late in the game, and he went all sad, and said something like please don't I will only break your heart. It was so sweet. I never experienced this. Fem!Hawke?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 23:08:59 GMT
Feels more like game convenience for certain male players to cut off flirting asap, and to set a character on a rival path asap if that's what they are after. I had an interesting reaction from him when I tried to flirt too late in the game, and he went all sad, and said something like please don't I will only break your heart. It was so sweet. I never experienced this. Fem!Hawke? Yes, my second Hawke. She was doing rivalry and just starting Act 2, iirc establishing a relationship with Fenris. But Anders flirt was still available. So, i got this charming responce.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 7, 2017 23:12:08 GMT
I never experienced this. Fem!Hawke? Yes, my second Hawke. She was doing rivalry and just starting Act 2, iirc establishing a relationship with Fenris. But Anders flirt was still available. So, i got this charming responce. He reacts differently at Fem!Hawke.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 7, 2017 23:26:42 GMT
Feels more like game convenience for certain male players to cut off flirting asap, and to set a character on a rival path asap if that's what they are after. I had an interesting reaction from him when I tried to flirt too late in the game, and he went all sad, and said something like please don't I will only break your heart. It was so sweet. Certainly, which I think only indicates the problem being more with the game mechanic than Anders. (But maybe only +10 rivalry, I can't remember.) As I see, probably he rather angry at himself. (He has put himself in an awkward situation.) A lot of anger inside him at the moment, and finally he felt some happiness. Simple disappointed. Rivalry gain isn't about them, it's about the player. It's a reaction to our choices from them. And still, I wouldn't consider his attraction at that point to be a shining beacon of hope for him. I just don't see how his passion, determination and self-doubt would rear negatively at that point when nothing has even happened. His reaction itself is not the problem, it's the rival gain. Yes, that follows his tone of lines with femHawke. He's very worried about her heart.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 8, 2017 0:13:22 GMT
I never experienced this. Fem!Hawke? Yes, my second Hawke. She was doing rivalry and just starting Act 2, iirc establishing a relationship with Fenris. But Anders flirt was still available. So, i got this charming responce. If I know correctly, Anders always react in such way to fem!Hawke's flirt first, not just if Hawke already flirted with anyone else, but I'm not sure about it. M'Hawke only once got warn from him: when kiss him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2017 0:26:34 GMT
Yes, my second Hawke. She was doing rivalry and just starting Act 2, iirc establishing a relationship with Fenris. But Anders flirt was still available. So, i got this charming responce. If I know correctly, Anders always react in such way to fem!Hawke's flirt first, not just if Hawke already flirted with anyone else, but I'm not sure about it. M'Hawke only once got warn from him: when kiss him. Well, I thought as always: there is a lovable bunch of pixels. :)
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Post by Sah291 on Mar 9, 2017 3:00:48 GMT
Now, I was kind of aiming for the "I had... never considered" line ( ), but I didn't realize it's not available on the no-flirt(2) path. Which doesn't make sense because I doubt Hawke would flirt first if he hadn't considered it? Hawke even sounds clueless when he says it, so...? Seems like that line could be switched with the "Doesn't mean I want you to stop" as I think that has better flow? Simply put, it seems odd that they would give the player an "out" after flirting first yet force the player to either flirt or reject when they did NOT flirt first. Anders also seems to kind of go out of his way to "check" if Hawke is "open" after Hawke has already flirted. I mean, I can understand it in itself but the structuring of this whole thing feels... messy. I'm also thinking that because the "Am I making you uncomfortable?" line happens with non-flirting femHawke, that's part of the problem technically-speaking. Perhaps ironically, this conversation with femHawke is a lot more straight-forward -- other than the part where they thought femHawke players couldn't handle Anders/Karl being a thing. Maybe if they had just made information about Karl free for ALL players this conversation wouldn't have turned out to feel so arbitrary and convoluted. :srs: The only way it makes sense to me, is if Hawke was maybe caught off guard that Anders took the flirt more seriously than intended? Which might fit for a flirty or purple Hawke, or maybe Hawke is simply trying to cheer him up or change the subject after he gets emotional talking about Justice... but yeah it's odd. But I think the problem for male Hawke is they had to both introduce the Karl story and establish whether Hawke is interested, and it's all happening in this one very limited first convo, when it probably would have been better off split in two seperate dialogues. As you say, the fem Hawke version is more straight forward. I think it was probably written first, and it's more taken for granted she's definitely interested if she flirts. It does bother me how there is no option to reject him nicely, you either have to lead him on, or be a jerk. The "I never considered" is the closest thing to a neutral response, which is weird that we only get it after actually flirting first. I can understand the rivalry in that case, sense Hawke can potentially be rather rude about it. To be fair though, I don't think we were meant to necessarily see rivalry as a punishment or even a negative thing, so maybe they just didn't think it through.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 9, 2017 7:46:39 GMT
The only way it makes sense to me, is if Hawke was maybe caught off guard that Anders took the flirt more seriously than intended? Which might fit for a flirty or purple Hawke, or maybe Hawke is simply trying to cheer him up or change the subject after he gets emotional talking about Justice... but yeah it's odd. But I think the problem for male Hawke is they had to both introduce the Karl story and establish whether Hawke is interested, and it's all happening in this one very limited first convo, when it probably would have been better off split in two seperate dialogues. As you say, the fem Hawke version is more straight forward. I think it was probably written first, and it's more taken for granted she's definitely interested if she flirts. It does bother me how there is no option to reject him nicely, you either have to lead him on, or be a jerk. The "I never considered" is the closest thing to a neutral response, which is weird that we only get it after actually flirting first. I can understand the rivalry in that case, sense Hawke can potentially be rather rude about it. To be fair though, I don't think we were meant to necessarily see rivalry as a punishment or even a negative thing, so maybe they just didn't think it through. Fair enough about rivalry not necessarily being a punishment, but in this case it is given in a situation that has a strange, strong negative implication. It doesn't feel like just a disagreement, but disapproval just because "Hawke doesn't like me that way" and that is... distasteful, even more so when it is unavoidable without flirting and none of the other companions have the same problem. Anders' reactions themselves really don't come off as petty or resentful either; he might be disappointed but he drops it. Like I said though, some of the rejections gaining rivalry I could understand because of how Hawke behaves. The point is just that it's all oddly strung together and can even feel backwards. Maybe if they had been give more time it could've been better implemented.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 9, 2017 7:51:08 GMT
Speaking of odd dialogues... It's kinda funny how after rescuing Keran with Anders in the party he asks Hawke to try downplaying the whole blood-mage-and-demon thing, and then Hawke waltzes up to Cullen with BLOOD MAGES AND DEMONS ARE INFILTRATING YOUR ORDER. :dumb: I remember being very surprised by that the first time I played.
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Post by Sah291 on Mar 9, 2017 13:03:01 GMT
Haha, I guess Hawke doesn't always take Anders' advice? I like to think Hawke knows that Cullen knows what's been going on, and is challenging him to do something about it. I mean, I could never believe Cullen couldn't figure out mage Hawke was a mage either, but he obviously looks the other way for some reason...maybe because he was conflicted about Meredith and the Templars already at that point, but wasn't ready to do anything about it.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 9, 2017 13:17:55 GMT
Haha, I guess Hawke doesn't always take Anders' advice? I like to think Hawke knows that Cullen knows what's been going on, and is challenging him to do something about it. I mean, I could never believe Cullen couldn't figure out mage Hawke was a mage either, but he obviously looks the other way for some reason...maybe because he was conflicted about Meredith and the Templars already at that point, but wasn't ready to do anything about it. In the Act1 I think they don't know, that Hawke's a mage (much more interesting is Anders' position, he's so much provocative, true, not directly tell, that he's a mage). In Act 2, at least towards the end of the part, I think everyone know that. Meredith clearly, and Cullen knows, that Anders is a mage (If Hawke talk with him at the gallows from ser Alrik's plan, and Anders in the group, Cullen call Anders "mage"), so probably he also knows, if Hawke a mage.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 9, 2017 20:46:04 GMT
Yeah, it's difficult to believe in Cullen being that oblivious to Hawke and Co. I suppose it could perhaps be seen that maybe Cullen's belief in the better nature of mages hasn't shriveled up, just yet, and that's why he doesn't say or doing anything about it, even though it's obviously a game oversight they couldn't fix. With Anders I've kind thought that they probably do know he's a mage. Maybe not right off the boat, but eventually. At least by Act 2. He mentions being worried about templars more than once since they snoop around in general. I think that probably while they know he's a mage they just can't catch him. Varric helps Anders and his clinic avoid detection and entrapment throughout the game and Anders is quite practiced at evading templars -- just never "staying escaped" until now. He's obviously earned goodwill with the poor/refugees by helping them as Lirene shows by firmly trying to protect him from Hawke and the templars, so they might be part of his protection as well. By Act 2 Hawke is a noble, so Anders openly traveling in their company is a buffer as well as when they become Champion. Elthina does mention Hawke having apostate friends by Act 3, which should probably be obvious by then, and yet Hawke being an apostate doesn't seem to push any buttons with anyone. Hard to say if some of these things are due to short development time or if it's to help demonstrate a point.
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Mar 10, 2017 13:42:32 GMT
^ Well, there's that passing comment from Cullen in Act 1 or 2 (don't remember much) He says "I've been hearing disturbing rumors about you, Hawke. I hope they're not true." if Hawke is a mage. He kinda knows that Hawke is a mage but he doesn't do anything. Maybe he's afraid because Hawke's a badass Also, related to the thread: I love Anders
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Post by Catilina on Mar 10, 2017 14:09:11 GMT
^ Well, there's that passing comment from Cullen in Act 1 or 2 (don't remember much) He says "I've been hearing disturbing rumors about you, Hawke. I hope they're not true." if Hawke is a mage. He kinda knows that Hawke is a mage but he doesn't do anything. Maybe he's afraid because Hawke's a badass Also, related to the thread: I love Anders Act 1, if I know right. "I've been hearing disturbing rumors about your sister, Hawke, I hope they're not true" if Hawke non-mage. In Act 1 Hawke more careful, and the mercenaries/smugglers keep his/her (or Bethany's) secret because of Hawke's (Bethany's) abilities useful them. In Act 2 they clearly know, what is Hawke (and what is Anders). In qunari battle, Meredith told Hawke, that she "looks away" when s/he use magic in battle. In the Act 1-2 Hawke did some useful things for Kirkwall/Templars, and perhaps have some fame. Even explainable, that Meredith believes, that easy to keep an eye on him/her, and perhaps can use him/her.
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Post by phoray on Mar 11, 2017 8:57:40 GMT
I enjoyed rival breaking up with Anders with my aggro Hawke. Anders was being super pushy and we went back and forth once or twice before my Hawke was, close to being exact quote, "YOU DON'T OWN ME, ANDERS."I love DA2 because it's the only place you can actually argue with companions that is purely so emotional.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 11, 2017 9:07:24 GMT
I was early in Act 2, spoke to Anders for the first time and it went something like: Hawke: Hey Anders, let’s catch up a bit. Anders: Oh, I'm the same as always. Meredith is a menace and I fear for my life as well as for my people. Hawke: W-Well... if they want you, they’ll have to go through me. Anders: ...I WOULD DROWN US IN BLOOD TO KEEP YOU SAFE So... in this case where I’m playing a Hawke that’s not very... flirty (with a total of 2 flirts selected up to then) I can see how Anders might come on a bit strong. In my head, though, I'm thinking they likely spent a lot of time together during the 3 year gap, wherein Hawke developed feelings but is inexperienced, uncertain and awkward, and Anders is just more intuitive about such things. But also somewhat awkward himself. On that note, I'm getting to the non-mage-specific romance lines about Hawke from Anders, and that's interesting to hear. "The world needs to see men like you. Who do not fear to stand openly at a mage's side." I had also forgotten how cool the conversation can go with Anders during his Questioning Beliefs after helping him with Ella. It's so sweet how touched he is about Hawke helping and believing in him, how determined and sort of re-affirmed he feels about himself. It's a shame we can't get that before flirting, since the flirts cut it off.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 11, 2017 13:42:29 GMT
I was early in Act 2, spoke to Anders for the first time and it went something like: Hawke: Hey Anders, let’s catch up a bit. Anders: Oh, I'm the same as always. Meredith is a menace and I fear for my life as well as for my people. Hawke: W-Well... if they want you, they’ll have to go through me. Anders: ...I WOULD DROWN US ALL IN BLOOD TO KEEP YOU SAFE So... in this case where I’m playing a Hawke that’s not very... flirty (with a total of 2 flirts selected up to then) I can see how Anders might come on a bit strong. In my head, though, I'm thinking they likely spent a lot of time together during the 3 year gap, wherein Hawke developed feelings but is inexperienced, uncertain and awkward, and Anders is just more intuitive about such things. But also somewhat awkward himself. On that note, I'm getting to the non-mage-specific romance lines about Hawke from Anders, and that's interesting to hear. "The world needs to see men like you. Who do not fear to stand openly at a mage's side." I had also forgotten how cool the conversation can go with Anders during his Questioning Beliefs after helping him with Ella. It's so sweet how touched he is about Hawke helping and believing in him, how determined and sort of re-affirmed he feels about himself. It's a shame we can't get that before flirting, since the flirts cut it off. This part? "You were out of control, but even then you hear what I was said. You knew in your heart that you have to stop!" I like it! I chose this answer with Reinhardt –warrior– he was so infatuated! With Georg –mage– I chose the sarcastic one, ofc. – he was the "sandwich" dude, with the motto: "Don't care about it, you worry too much, just calm down, and come to bed – I will protect you."I do not know which one I like better...
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Post by Catilina on Mar 11, 2017 18:46:36 GMT
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549
0
Sept 12, 2016 8:45:31 GMT
3,177
SpiritVanguard
Offline...
1,103
August 2016
spiritvanguard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 11, 2017 21:14:12 GMT
This part? "You were out of control, but even then you hear what I was said. You knew in your heart that you have to stop!" I like it! I chose this answer with Reinhardt –warrior– he was so infatuated! With Georg –mage– I chose the sarcastic one, ofc. – he was the "sandwich" dude, with the motto: "Don't care about it, you worry too much, just calm down, and come to bed – I will protect you."I do not know which one I like better... I'm never gonna like that sandwich line. I'm talking about his Questioning Beliefs, where he sets out milk for cats. I'm always using the flirts in that scene because I'm romancing him and that starts the romance, so it's been a while since I've played it friendly. Since I'm picking less flirts this time I was playing with the dialogue and remembered how tender that scene is without flirting. I did also pick the blue responses because I'm imaging this Hawke to be more... soft-spoken/mild-mannered.
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Mar 11, 2017 22:16:18 GMT
This part? "You were out of control, but even then you hear what I was said. You knew in your heart that you have to stop!" I like it! I chose this answer with Reinhardt –warrior– he was so infatuated! With Georg –mage– I chose the sarcastic one, ofc. – he was the "sandwich" dude, with the motto: "Don't care about it, you worry too much, just calm down, and come to bed – I will protect you."I do not know which one I like better... I'm never gonna like that sandwich line. I'm talking about his Questioning Beliefs, where he sets out milk for cats. I'm always using the flirts in that scene because I'm romancing him and that starts the romance, so it's been a while since I've played it friendly. Since I'm picking less flirts this time I was playing with the dialogue and remembered how tender that scene is without flirting. I did also pick the blue responses because I'm imaging this Hawke to be more... soft-spoken/mild-mannered. "You wants to kill the romance?" (When Anders asks to move in) So I (Georg) did it. Otherwise he was happy about it, just didn't want to tell to Anders. I spoke about the previous scene (Hawke calmed down him about Justice), I didn't get friendly option before the kiss scene, only two flirt option, if I remember correctly. Non romanced mage Hawke got, but he only answered him sarcastically, just as Georg, but Georg flirted with him.
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