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Post by phoray on Mar 22, 2017 22:47:24 GMT
I think I'm going to have to admit. Possibly. That I don't like Anders anymore. And that kinda bums me out. Because I remember being so in love with him. I did two PTs being nothing but mean to him because I was angry. I thought the anger would go away and that I'd come round to loving him again. But now it seems more like bemused indifference. My new Hawke is sexing him and leaving him. Later, I have one Hawke that is meant to go with him as canon and in my Fanfiction. And that may be the end of Anders for me. phoray Nooo! Say it ain't so. You can't abandon Anders! Besides blowing up the chantry, starting a war, being a bit mean to Aveline what's not to love. He is adorable. Anders, Hawke and Sir-pounce-alot2. Awww this sadness me. Who is he not mean to? He argues with literally everyone and insults half the crew. He doesn't like my dog. His hypocrisy with Merrill. The fact that he used to be a total ho too, even slept with Isabella himself, but thinks she's not good enough for Hawke. Even Flemyth is on my shit list for talking to Isabella like she knows what she is and can never be better. how he calls Fenris a dog. If he kills Ella, he says he's going to tell her parents it was the Templars. how having a relationship with Hawke is less just them being together and instead just another middle finger to the Chantry. The above comic where Varric says he's not fun. Just no. I want a real conversation with Anders about the problems in the relationship, with Justice being present. I want honesty. He can't give Hawke honesty the minute Act 3 begins. He's planning to blow up the Chantry while warming my Hawke's bed at night and then, the biggest sin, asks Hawke to kill their lover after all the loss, hardship, and heartache they've been through. So, there is a lot I'm upset about regarding him, and the bad list gets longer while the short list remains the same length. But, maybe he'll will me over again 3-4 PTs from now when I roll a rogue ignorant of magic for the most part. Aa bit of a childish rebel at heart, who doesn't know what to do with a man that is ten times more complicated than she expected and stays with him anyway. But if he doesn't- that's the end. I had hoped to forgive him.
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Post by Sah291 on Mar 22, 2017 23:34:14 GMT
What's the story with Anders and Isabela? The banter implies they slept together once, but it's so vague. Since Anders is bitter about the Blooming Rose trying to hire him in another banter, I just headcanon he maybe worked at the Pearl for a short while or something. Well, he was a runaway from the Circle, so presumably he needed food and money for shelter. Maybe he ended up there and was offered a job, until he got caught or had to move on.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 22, 2017 23:57:59 GMT
phoray Nooo! Say it ain't so. You can't abandon Anders! Besides blowing up the chantry, starting a war, being a bit mean to Aveline what's not to love. He is adorable. Anders, Hawke and Sir-pounce-alot2. Awww this sadness me. Who is he not mean to? He argues with literally everyone and insults half the crew. He doesn't like my dog. His hypocrisy with Merrill. The fact that he used to be a total ho too, even slept with Isabella himself, but thinks she's not good enough for Hawke. Even Flemyth is on my shit list for talking to Isabella like she knows what she is and can never be better. how he calls Fenris a dog. If he kills Ella, he says he's going to tell her parents it was the Templars. how having a relationship with Hawke is less just them being together and instead just another middle finger to the Chantry. The above comic where Varric says he's not fun. Just no. I want a real conversation with Anders about the problems in the relationship, with Justice being present. I want honesty. He can't give Hawke honesty the minute Act 3 begins. He's planning to blow up the Chantry while warming my Hawke's bed at night and then, the biggest sin, asks Hawke to kill their lover after all the loss, hardship, and heartache they've been through. So, there is a lot I'm upset about regarding him, and the bad list gets longer while the short list remains the same length. But, maybe he'll will me over again 3-4 PTs from now when I roll a rogue ignorant of magic for the most part. Aa bit of a childish rebel at heart, who doesn't know what to do with a man that is ten times more complicated than she expected and stays with him anyway. But if he doesn't- that's the end. I had hoped to forgive him. He said, that he's not good enough to (fem)Hawke (he don't say such a thing to m!Hawke, or only once, before he wants to go to Hawke's manor, that Hawke know, what he is, and what he did), but you wrote, that you can't accept him with this traits: so, based on your post, Anders really not good enough. He just said the truth... He's sometimes jealous, impatient, mannerless, judgemental bastard, I know, but he likes the dog, just not in the(his) bed. In Act3 he's not fun because he prepares for a terrible thing. Why he would be funny, he's not a psychopath. About Ella, so this banter? Anders: Can I ask you something, Aveline? Aveline: I cannot look the other way when mages break the law... Anders: That's not what I was going to ask. There's a girl. A mage apprentice. She...was murdered in the Gallows recently. Have you heard anything of it? Aveline: You mean the girl you killed. Anders: Yes. I'd like to... attend the funeral. Do something. Aveline: The official templar report says she was killed by a demon of unknown origin. Let her family mourn in peace. I think his reason was: if he killed this girl, yes, but he doesn't want that his horrible mistake would put a bad light on the mages. The Templars would have been killed (Tranquilized) her anyway. These jealous "banters" when Anders call Fenris to wild dog, and told, the Merrill will never chose Hawke instead her demon: tell us what he is. A hardly controllable man, a monster, who "has let one bad experience color his whole world". A man, who never will chose Hawke over his cause, and fear, that turned Justice to demon. He said too many bad thing, yes. Judged Isabela just as himself after Justice. He need to learn a lot to handle their situation. But you know, what is my opinion. Probably what I said was not the best plea, I know. But he did great things too. The balance is still positive for me. I know many people don't likes, if anyone defends him with his good traits. But I don't understand that: this ridiculous. (I admit, I was jealous, and impatient, rough and mannerless too. So much thing, what I said was wrong, I already did hurt people for no reason. So sometimes I really can understand his reactions.)
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 0:01:02 GMT
What's the story with Anders and Isabela? The banter implies they slept together once, but it's so vague. Since Anders is bitter about the Blooming Rose trying to hire him in another banter, I just headcanon he maybe worked at the Pearl for a short while or something. Well, he was a runaway from the Circle, so presumably he needed food and money for shelter. Maybe he ended up there and was offered a job, until he got caught or had to move on. That was vague, he slept with Isabela in Pearl or just Isabela heard rumors, that Anders was in is Pearl often.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 0:49:52 GMT
Who is he not mean to? He argues with literally everyone and insults half the crew. He doesn't like my dog. His hypocrisy with Merrill. The fact that he used to be a total ho too, even slept with Isabella himself, but thinks she's not good enough for Hawke. Even Flemyth is on my shit list for talking to Isabella like she knows what she is and can never be better. how he calls Fenris a dog. If he kills Ella, he says he's going to tell her parents it was the Templars. how having a relationship with Hawke is less just them being together and instead just another middle finger to the Chantry. The above comic where Varric says he's not fun. Just no. I want a real conversation with Anders about the problems in the relationship, with Justice being present. I want honesty. He can't give Hawke honesty the minute Act 3 begins. He's planning to blow up the Chantry while warming my Hawke's bed at night and then, the biggest sin, asks Hawke to kill their lover after all the loss, hardship, and heartache they've been through. So, there is a lot I'm upset about regarding him, and the bad list gets longer while the short list remains the same length. But, maybe he'll will me over again 3-4 PTs from now when I roll a rogue ignorant of magic for the most part. Aa bit of a childish rebel at heart, who doesn't know what to do with a man that is ten times more complicated than she expected and stays with him anyway. But if he doesn't- that's the end. I had hoped to forgive him. LOL. All true. ... I got nothing. Blame Justice for everything. When romancing, I don't take Fenris on that quest with Anders so I don't have to hear that comment and I keep him away from Merrill. And don't let him kill Ella. Good points he is a healer taking care of the lowtown people and he helps the mage underground. In DA2 he was so funny. It took courage and love to kill Karl.Those are good points. He is still adorable though. And Hawke loves him. I got the impression if romancing him,he doesn't want to tell Hawke what he is planning to do so Hawke wouldn't be involved,get blamed which of course he would because he distracted Elthina for Anders but Anders doesn't see that. A rogue would be good. You'll forgive him...someday... Don't blame Justice for everything! Or... wait a moment. Yes. He is "to blame", but not because he's evil, rather because he's a spirit. The spirits are simple. They have a purpose but don't have emotions, at least if not related to their purpose. How hard would be to live with a spirit as a human, and with a human as a spirit. They need to understand each other and learn to live together. Seems no matter, that they are merged, they have independent thoughts. "Justice is hard, Justice is righteous"..., but not the Spirit of Kindness.
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Post by phoray on Mar 23, 2017 1:16:59 GMT
What's the story with Anders and Isabela? The banter implies they slept together once, but it's so vague.
In the Fereldan brothel in Denerim. But his jealous dialogue both at your sex scene with him and on his mission in Act 3 pretty clearly give his opinion of her.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 1:20:49 GMT
What's the story with Anders and Isabela? The banter implies they slept together once, but it's so vague.
In the Fereldan brothel in Denerim. But his jealous dialogue both at your sex scene with him and on his mission in Act 3 pretty clearly give his opinion of her. Of course, his opinions are always pretty clear...
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Post by phoray on Mar 23, 2017 1:31:40 GMT
Catilina oh yeah, that's why I didn't like the dog conversation. Hawke stands there silently letting him unilaterally kick the dog out of the bed. I'm totally a dog woman, and that would be a relationship breaker in real life Re; Aveline and Anders Banter- I've not heard/read that banter before. What I'm referring to is...you leave dead Ella's body in a cave and head back to Darktown. Talk Anders out of leaving. then immediately after the scene ends, he's just standing there and has banter with himself about Ella. And he says, when he goes to her funeral, he'll tell her parents that the Templars killed her. Implication being that his murder of Ella can still help "the mage cause." Edit Add: I tried to find a video of it, but all the YT videos end when the scene ends. And the banter happens immediately out of scene in his Clinic. I will have to let Anders kill her during my PT this time and see if I can catch it. But it might also only trigger for a rivaled Anders and I haven't rivaled him this PT.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 1:45:02 GMT
Catilina oh yeah, that's why I didn't like the dog conversation. Hawke stands there silently letting him unilaterally kick the dog out of the bed. I'm totally a dog woman, and that would be a relationship breaker in real life Re; Aveline and Anders Banter- I've not heard/read that banter before. What I'm referring to is...you leave dead Ella's body in a cave and head back to Darktown. Talk Anders out of leaving. then immediately after the scene ends, he's just standing there and has banter with himself about Ella. And he says, when he goes to her funeral, he'll tell her parents that the Templars killed her. Implication being that his murder of Ella can still help "the mage cause." Yes, I know that there is a banter from Ella's death and her funeral, but I didn't remember this scene, and I didn't found that. As I said: Ella's already died. He probably just doesn't want to make the situation worse. I don't feel bad about the "Templars"... but I don't see that as a good idea. I think he just would himself into trouble. Aveline was right, Anders was thoughtless and inconsiderate. Just as in so many situations. @dustyelf is right, don't let Anders to kill Ella.
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Post by phoray on Mar 23, 2017 1:46:53 GMT
Catilinatoo fast I tried to find a video of it, but all the YT videos end when the scene ends. And the banter happens immediately out of scene in his Clinic. I will have to let Anders kill her during my PT this time and see if I can catch it. But it might also only trigger for a rivaled Anders and I haven't rivaled him this PT.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 1:54:09 GMT
Catilina too fast I tried to find a video of it, but all the YT videos end when the scene ends. And the banter happens immediately out of scene in his Clinic. I will have to let Anders kill her during my PT this time and see if I can catch it. But it might also only trigger for a rivaled Anders and I haven't rivaled him this PT. Yes, the rivalry slowly crushes him, and make him unstable. But irrelevant: he's completely crushed after the death of Ella, even in friendship (but if he doesn't kill Ella, he also very upset).
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Post by phoray on Mar 23, 2017 1:58:10 GMT
Catilina too fast I tried to find a video of it, but all the YT videos end when the scene ends. And the banter happens immediately out of scene in his Clinic. I will have to let Anders kill her during my PT this time and see if I can catch it. But it might also only trigger for a rivaled Anders and I haven't rivaled him this PT. Yes, the rivalry slowly crushes him, and make him unstable. But irrelevant: he's completely crushed after the death of Ella, even in friendship (but if he doesn't kill Ella, he also very upset). But it's.... wrong! Trying to spin a murder he just did while he lost control onto the Templars? As the Warden can say to Alistair, "We're all killers." But I've never played a protaganist that then tried to lie about it to their benefit. But until I got the evidence, it's all hearsay anyway.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 2:18:30 GMT
Yes, the rivalry slowly crushes him, and make him unstable. But irrelevant: he's completely crushed after the death of Ella, even in friendship (but if he doesn't kill Ella, he also very upset). But it's.... wrong! Trying to spin a murder he just did while he lost control onto the Templars? As the Warden can say to Alistair, "We're all killers." But I've never played a protaganist that then tried to lie about it to their benefit. But until I got the evidence, it's all hearsay anyway. He does not fall under suspicion, so he does not defend himself. Yes, he want's to throws under suspicion the Templars. He seems that this can help to his cause. I said: this isn't some good idea, because yes, this is morally questionable, in addition, he could put himself in danger. But he does not want to accuse a specific person: he wants to accuse the "Templars". But Alric and his fellows aren't innocent in this crime they wanted to kill (Tranquil and use!) Ella. So, we can say, this is a half-truth. Edification: never annoys the Justice up!
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 3:22:07 GMT
Don't blame Justice for everything! Or... wait a moment. Yes. He is "to blame", but not because he's evil, rather because he's a spirit. The spirits are simple. They have a purpose but don't have emotions, at least if not related to their purpose. How hard would be to live with a spirit as a human, and with a human as a spirit. They need to understand each other and learn to live together. Seems no matter, that they are merged, they have independent thoughts. "Justice is hard, Justice is righteous"..., but not the Spirit of Kindness. No, don't really blame Justice for everything. It was Justice working off Anders emotions, rage against he circle, both fed each other. Maybe if they did not go to Kirkwall and/or Meredith were not in charge. Anders timely was the right place. The Kirkwall Circle was the most unjust place in his perspective. This was the cause for they merged. "Justice once asked me why I didn’t do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work. But I couldn’t go back after that. Couldn’t stop thinking about it. Sometimes, I miss being that selfish."
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 3:26:29 GMT
Catilina oh yeah, that's why I didn't like the dog conversation. Hawke stands there silently letting him unilaterally kick the dog out of the bed. I'm totally a dog woman, and that would be a relationship breaker in real life [...] Just for you!
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Post by phoray on Mar 23, 2017 6:53:31 GMT
Anders: I'm not used to this slobbery affection. Dog: Barks Anders: Be a real pet. Ignore me until you want something, and then sit on my head. Dog: Whine ME: yeah, he says that to a aMabari. Not a good idea.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 23, 2017 12:24:24 GMT
Anders timely was the right place. The Kirkwall Circle was the most unjust place in his perspective. This was the cause for they merged. They merged when they traveled to Kirkwall with the Wardens? I thought they merged in Amaranthine then went to Kirkwall to help Karl. Don't know how I missed that- means another playthrough Kirkwall circle seems far worse than Ferelden and Rhys's circle with both Meredith and Ser Alrik. Even given Meredith's background, don't understand how she could have let Alrik get away with it. Do you know if Tevinter tranquils mages? Yes, they merged in Amaranthine for working for mages, and eliminating the injustice, what happen with mages for thousands of years, not to helping to Karl. This was only a "sidequest", or rather a catalyst, but not their purpose: "Justice once asked me why I didn’t do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work. But I couldn’t go back after that. Couldn’t stop thinking about it. Sometimes, I miss being that selfish."And yes, Anders going to Kirkwall because he wanted to help to Karl, but stayed because Kirkwall Circle was terrible. This was the best what happened to him and Justice, because this is was the best place to working for mages. Anders wasn't politician, and with his past, he didn't have a chance to enter the Conclave or something similar. His way was to working with the Mage Underground, to search solutions for freedom of mages, and finally starting a revolution. I think this fulfilled. (If Inquisitor supports Leliana, Anders/Justice's purpose is fulfilled sooner than most thought his dream. "Ten years, a hundred from now...") I think, Meredith liked the loyal Templars, who not squeamish about the means. I think (at first at least) she didn't agree with everything, what Alric did (request for the "Tranquil solution"), but she could agree with his presence. In Tevinter the Magisters also practice the Rite of Tranqulity. For political reasons (to silence the opponents).
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Post by Catilina on Mar 24, 2017 3:06:45 GMT
Yes, they merged in Amaranthine for working for mages, and eliminating the injustice, what happen with mages for thousands of years, not to helping to Karl. This was only a "sidequest", or rather a catalyst, but not their purpose: "Justice once asked me why I didn’t do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work. But I couldn’t go back after that. Couldn’t stop thinking about it. Sometimes, I miss being that selfish."And yes, Anders going to Kirkwall because he wanted to help to Karl, but stayed because Kirkwall Circle was terrible. This was the best what happened to him and Justice, because this is was the best place to working for mages. Anders wasn't politician, and with his past, he didn't have a chance to enter the Conclave or something similar. His way was to working with the Mage Underground, to search solutions for freedom of mages, and finally starting a revolution. I think this fulfilled. (If Inquisitor supports Leliana, Anders/Justice's purpose is fulfilled sooner than most thought his dream. "Ten years, a hundred from now...") I think, Meredith liked the loyal Templars, who not squeamish about the means. I think (at first at least) she didn't agree with everything, what Alric did (request for the "Tranquil solution"), but she could agree with his presence. In Tevinter the Magisters also practice the Rite of Tranqulity. For political reasons (to silence the opponents). Thanks. So Dorian going back to Tevinter if he loses favor could be tranquiled. Ugh. "Justice once asked me why I didn’t do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work. But I couldn’t go back after that. Couldn’t stop thinking about it. Sometimes, I miss being that selfish." ^ It is a sad quote, everytime I read get the same sadness for Anders. He wanted free will. I don't think, this is so easy even in Tevinter... Someone just simply murdered, just like his father. Now seriously, Tranquility isn't a toy, I think it is not used as often, despite, that there are some power-hungry Magister. ___ Anders has free will. He wanted it, and was clear, that this will hard. Yes, he sometimes just wants to be selfish again, and drunken again, because this is just easier. But I don't think, that he would be sad, that he's can't be selfish anymore. I said, they need to learn to live together. Justice doesn't want to prevent everything, sometimes just indicates that don't agree, as for example, in Hawke's case, but despite Justice disagreement, Anders' will prevail. Neither Anders nor Justice same person as was before they merged. Here is an interesting scene after the Fade quest, how Anders see Justice's position in the "real" world: (Special option, if Hawke dealt with sloth demon in Fade, ignoring warnings of Justice, and "kill" Justice, but finally killed the demon.) This is one the most interesting scene about their relationship. Anders feels sorry about Justice, that his body some kind of prison for Justice.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 24, 2017 3:30:13 GMT
I don't think, this is so easy even in Tevinter... Someone just simply murdered, just like his father. Now seriously, Tranquility isn't a toy, I think it is not used as often, despite, that there are some power-hungry Magister. ___ Anders has free will. He wanted it, and was clear, that this will hard. Yes, he sometimes just wants to be selfish again, and drunken again, because this is just easier. But I don't think, that he would be sad, that he's can't be selfish anymore. I said, they need to learn to live together. Justice doesn't want to prevent everything, sometimes just indicates that don't agree, as for example, in Hawke's case, but despite Justice disagreement, Anders' will prevail. Neither Anders nor Justice same person as was before they merged. Here is an interesting scene after the Fade quest, how Anders see Justice's position in the "real" world: (Special option, if Hawke dealt with sloth demon in Fade, ignoring warnings of Justice, and "kill" Justice, but finally killed the demon.) This is one the most interesting scene about their relationship. Meant in the circle, being a prisoner, not being able to live your life they way you want to, always being watched. He also is not as carefree and happy, but maybe Anders was not so happy. Haven't seen that scene before, it makes sense that Justice would feel that way and it was probably unexpected for him. Anders seems saddened by that fact. Yes, a quite hard to kill him, but "worth it", because this is one of my favorite scene with him. Anders feels sorry about Justice's position. Not just because he (believe that) corrupted him, even he believe, that his body a prison for him. So: I think this is also may a reason, that Anders not in everything conflicts with him. For example, not become drunk. (In addition: if Hawke don't kill the sloth demon, or don't tell Anders, that this was a trick, Anders doesn't want to romance anymore.)
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Mar 24, 2017 4:38:00 GMT
Pft, whatever Anders is perfect. Like, not "flawless" perfect, but actually flawed. Like a real person would be. To focus entirely on his negatives would make him seem unlovable, as with any character, but loving him is accepting that he's neither a saint nor a villain. He just is. And I think the cheeky remarks about the mabari and Isabela are perhaps being taken too seriously. He does not disapprove of Hawke being with Isabela and hardly insults her maliciously. One line about Hawke's "quick tumble" with Isabela is not a morality assessment of her character. If Hawke wanted more from Isabela they wouldn't be pursuing Anders afterward. We've discussed much of this already, so I'm not sure how productive it is to rehash this? A person has to work out their feelings, I understand, but it feels a little like "Hey don't forget how shitty Anders is" even if not the intent. I can't make anyone like Anders, I don't try to. I've only tried to state my perspective. I love Anders; I know he's not polite (when has he ever been?), is damaged and doesn't always make the best choices. I don't stop loving him just because he might or does screw up. For me, part of loving a character is unconditional -- accepting them, supporting them because you care for them even when they aren't ideal or hit their lows, and Anders can push those limits. I suppose I am generally more forgiving, though. Or at least open to "second chances." I've fallen out of liking characters before and it is not fun, but sometimes these things happen. Anders is a challenging one; I don't think he was meant to be "easy" as others perhaps are. I hope loving him again is possible, because I think there's more to him than just his flaws and he is not remorseless and at least has good intentions. As for the letter-personality thing, it's not something I'm very familiar with. I've taken the quiz a couple times before but don't even remember what I got. I'm playing MEA now and likely won't be active here, so just putting that out there. I'll check in as long as nobody talks about MEA.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 13:41:07 GMT
So, ANders now slept with Isabela too? See, nothing good comes out of recruiting her. Heh.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 24, 2017 14:01:30 GMT
So, ANders now slept with Isabela too? See, nothing good comes out of recruiting her. Heh. In DA2? Nope. He just cured Isabela' disease in his clinic. Before? It's vague. Perhaps, in Denerim, in Pearl, but perhaps Isabela only heard rumors about him and vice versa.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Mar 24, 2017 15:23:20 GMT
It's implied that Anders spent some (?) time in Pearl which is a brothel in Denerim and in which Grey Warden might meet Isabela in DA:O. She asks whether Anders spent time in Pearl and whether he was the one with the electricity thing in one of banters in DA 2 and it indicates something naughty When I heard it for the first time, I was like "I don't need details, dammit!" I do wonder what's that electricity thing, though
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Post by phoray on Mar 24, 2017 16:42:40 GMT
So, ANders now slept with Isabela too? See, nothing good comes out of recruiting her. Heh. IF they slept together, it was year ish before Hawke meets Anders I always assumed e slept with Isabella and /or visited the Pearl as an Apostate. between the last time he escaped the Circle and the day he meets the HoF. The time line already messes up between Awakening ad DA2 so I'm not shoving a Pearl visit in there.
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Post by phoray on Mar 25, 2017 5:28:44 GMT
To balance out my negativity, Anders breaking Idunna's compulsion is kinda sexy. I wish Merril got the option.
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