TheHeroOfFerelden
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Morrigan's Husband
*Searching for the Cure*
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Apr 1, 2018 9:26:32 GMT
Belated "boldog születésnapot",my friend Catilina My warmest wishes!
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Post by Catilina on Apr 1, 2018 10:15:00 GMT
Aw, ευχαριστώ πολύ, φίλε μου!
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Post by Iddy on Apr 6, 2018 10:47:23 GMT
What did you think of Anders' reaction to Fenris being returned to Daenerius?
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Post by Catilina on Apr 6, 2018 20:16:04 GMT
What did you think of Anders' reaction to Fenris being returned to Daenerius? "Cheap" (because this is happened in the game) option: OOC. He never accepted the slavery. Justice even opposed the ownership of a pet (Ser Pounce-a-lot), and Anders shows that at the Bone Pit also. Probably less "cheap" option (let's accept, what the game gives to us), but perhaps not that OOC: sudden reaction, about his frustration every refusal. This is "pfu, finally, he's gone, he will not annoy me more!" In fact, many people at least once felt similar. He's passionate, shows his feeling always. The negative and the positive too. Just as when he speaks with a Templar, with everyone about the mages; if Hawke shows attraction toward him, or if Hawke refuses him. He's not thinking so much before he speaks.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 7, 2018 1:24:53 GMT
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Cantina
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Apr 7, 2018 4:27:46 GMT
I must pop-in and say these two are my favorites (sorry if they have been posted already).
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Post by Sifr on Apr 8, 2018 2:23:07 GMT
Here Lies the Abyss: Anders' Harrowing? The origin of the name of Ser Pounce-a-Lot? Whatever it is, interesting, I guess: Y'know, this would perfectly tie-in with a rejected pitch that Jennifer Hepler had for some DLC in DA2;
"I can tell you my favourite rejected Bioware proposal that I ever did, which is that I really wanted.
Cause we get a lot of people always complaining, that, y'know, 'Well, I wouldn't do what a demon is tempting me with!', because they don't actually live in that world and there's nothing we can really tempt them with that is worth it.
And I really wanted to do something, where in the first piece of DLC after Dragon Age 2, that Justice walks into town still wearing the body from Awakening and says, 'What do you mean merging with Anders? I never merged with Anders?'
And you realise that he was just tricked by a demon. Because they're that tricky. They're that tricky, that you can believe in them for an entire game and not realise that they were tricking you. But sadly, that was not to be."
- Fresh out of Tokens Podcast, Ep 63, Aug 31, 2016.
(Around the 40 minute mark for those curious)
What if the Spirit we all thought was Justice, was really just the Demon Cat taking the opportunity to "pounce" on Anders?
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Post by Catilina on Apr 8, 2018 9:32:46 GMT
Here Lies the Abyss: Anders' Harrowing? The origin of the name of Ser Pounce-a-Lot? Whatever it is, interesting, I guess: Y'know, this would perfectly tie-in with a rejected pitch that Jennifer Hepler had for some DLC in DA2;
"I can tell you my favourite rejected Bioware proposal that I ever did, which is that I really wanted.
Cause we get a lot of people always complaining, that, y'know, 'Well, I wouldn't do what a demon is tempting me with!', because they don't actually live in that world and there's nothing we can really tempt them with that is worth it.
And I really wanted to do something, where in the first piece of DLC after Dragon Age 2, that Justice walks into town still wearing the body from Awakening and says, 'What do you mean merging with Anders? I never merged with Anders?'
And you realise that he was just tricked by a demon. Because they're that tricky. They're that tricky, that you can believe in them for an entire game and not realise that they were tricking you. But sadly, that was not to be."
- Fresh out of Tokens Podcast, Ep 63, Aug 31, 2016.
(Around the 40 minute mark for those curious) What if the Spirit we all thought was Justice, was really just the Demon Cat taking the opportunity to "pounce" on Anders? Is it true? I'm really glad, the devs rejected that nonsense. It just proves that Jennifer Hepler really doesn't like Anders' character, or just really into the unnecessary, illogical tragedy... just "l'art pour l'art"... It was not enough for her, she suggested, the rivalry is the right way with him because he has serious delusions, but whit that idiocy, she would take away Anders's credibility, and Justice (not mentioned Ser Pounce-a-lot...)! It could have ruined the whole story. But perhaps some tragedy-suckers and Anders-haters would have loved it! (Anyway, I'm not surprised, she wanted to make Anders totally fool.)
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Post by davesin on Apr 8, 2018 10:23:48 GMT
Meh, that would be terrible plot and it would cheapen the whole "spirit's attitude is based on your perception" thing we can see in Anders and his spirit/demon buddy.
Besides, Anders is perfectly hate-able as he is in DA2. No need to make him complete moron.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 8, 2018 10:43:10 GMT
Meh, that would be terrible plot and it would cheapen the whole "spirit's attitude is based on your perception" thing we can see in Anders and his spirit/demon buddy. Besides, Anders is perfectly hate-able as he is in DA2. No need to make him complete moron. This conception based on the serialized cheap horror-trash... (/evil laugh – "muahaha, I'm not that you expected!") And yes, Anders is very controversial (love-hate) even without being totally idiot. And the character good in that way.
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Post by davesin on Apr 8, 2018 10:48:37 GMT
This conception based on the serialized cheap horror-trash... Precisely! Besides, how would Hawke know this is the Justice spirit Anders met in Awakening and not a demon that wants to lure Hawke into doing something stupid (since Hepler is found of this idea)? He's not the only one of his kind.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 8, 2018 12:24:43 GMT
Y'know, this would perfectly tie-in with a rejected pitch that Jennifer Hepler had for some DLC in DA2;
"I can tell you my favourite rejected Bioware proposal that I ever did, which is that I really wanted.
Cause we get a lot of people always complaining, that, y'know, 'Well, I wouldn't do what a demon is tempting me with!', because they don't actually live in that world and there's nothing we can really tempt them with that is worth it.
And I really wanted to do something, where in the first piece of DLC after Dragon Age 2, that Justice walks into town still wearing the body from Awakening and says, 'What do you mean merging with Anders? I never merged with Anders?'
And you realise that he was just tricked by a demon. Because they're that tricky. They're that tricky, that you can believe in them for an entire game and not realise that they were tricking you. But sadly, that was not to be."
- Fresh out of Tokens Podcast, Ep 63, Aug 31, 2016.
(Around the 40 minute mark for those curious) What if the Spirit we all thought was Justice, was really just the Demon Cat taking the opportunity to "pounce" on Anders? Is it true? I'm really glad, the devs rejected that nonsense. It just proves that Jennifer Hepler really hated Anders' character, or just really into the unnecessary, illogical tragedy... I'd disagree that it shows she "hated" Anders' character or was trying to ruin his arc with this twist. This twist would have explained why both their characterisations were so different compared to Awakening, as well as why Justice would have asked or agreed to "merge" with Anders, which seems extremely out-of-character for him. The Justice from Awakening would have viewed such possession (even willingly done) as something only demons partook in. While it might have added more (unnecessary) tragedy to Anders' story in DA2 (which is probably why it was nixed), it would serve to reinforce the repeated comment that mages in Thedas are always at risk of being possessed by Spirits/Demons if they're not careful. In this case, Anders' overconfidence that he could handle it (which he admits in DA2), lead him to mistakenly agree to let the wrong person in, unaware that it wasn't the Justice that he was friend's with that was making the request. I don't see how that makes him stupid, because this type of mistake seems to be one easily made. Mouse's parting words to a Mage Warden during their Harrowing even acknowledged the danger of putting your faith in the wrong spirit; "The real dangers of the Fade are preconceptions, careless trust... pride"And even Wynne refuted the idea that she couldn't have fallen prey to such a mistake in Origins, acknowledging that one slip is all it takes. Even though she had no control over the Spirit of Faith saving her life, we saw her greatly troubled over whether this made her an abomination. Precisely! Besides, how would Hawke know this is the Justice spirit Anders met in Awakening and not a demon that wants to lure Hawke into doing something stupid (since Hepler is found of this idea)? He's not the only one of his kind.Because Justice would still be wearing the body of Kristoff, therefore showing the audience that it had to be the same Spirit. Even though Hawke had never met Kristoff!Justice, if this was post-game DLC (where Anders is still alive) or midquel DLC (like Legacy/MOTA), then you presumably would have been able to confront Anders with Kristoff!Justice in tow. Also what sense would it have made for this Justice to try to lure Hawke into doing something stupid, after having just outed another demon for luring Anders into doing something stupid? That'd be the Fade equivalent of someone saying "don't trust strangers in vans with candy... now step into my van, I have candy!" --- I'm not saying that I'm totally onboard with Hepler's idea, because unless it had been written extremely well, this type of effective retcon might have p***ed off a lot of fans and undermined Anders story-arc in DA2 (which Hepler wrote). But I do rather the idea in theory, because it shows how dangerous the denizens of the Fade can be, if you're not careful. It's probably best this was rejected, but it's a cool "What if?" scenario, same as "What if Velanna merged with Justice?".
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Post by Catilina on Apr 8, 2018 15:17:11 GMT
Is it true? I'm really glad, the devs rejected that nonsense. It just proves that Jennifer Hepler really hated Anders' character, or just really into the unnecessary, illogical tragedy... I'd disagree that it shows she "hated" Anders' character or was trying to ruin his arc with this twist. This twist would have explained why both their characterisations were so different compared to Awakening, as well as why Justice would have asked or agreed to "merge" with Anders, which seems extremely out-of-character for him. The Justice from Awakening would have viewed such possession (even willingly done) as something only demons partook in. While it might have added more (unnecessary) tragedy to Anders' story in DA2 (which is probably why it was nixed), it would serve to reinforce the repeated comment that mages in Thedas are always at risk of being possessed by Spirits/Demons if they're not careful. In this case, Anders' overconfidence that he could handle it (which he admits in DA2), lead him to mistakenly agree to let the wrong person in, unaware that it wasn't the Justice that he was friend's with that was making the request. I don't see how that makes him stupid, because this type of mistake seems to be one easily made. Mouse's parting words to a Mage Warden during their Harrowing even acknowledged the danger of putting your faith in the wrong spirit; "The real dangers of the Fade are preconceptions, careless trust... pride" And even Wynne refuted the idea that she couldn't have fallen prey to such a mistake in Origins, acknowledging that one slip is all it takes. Even though she had no control over the Spirit of Faith saving her life, we saw her greatly troubled over whether this made her an abomination. Precisely! Besides, how would Hawke know this is the Justice spirit Anders met in Awakening and not a demon that wants to lure Hawke into doing something stupid (since Hepler is found of this idea)? He's not the only one of his kind.Because Justice would still be wearing the body of Kristoff, therefore showing the audience that it had to be the same Spirit. Even though Hawke had never met Kristoff!Justice, if this was post-game DLC (where Anders is still alive) or midquel DLC (like Legacy/MOTA), then you presumably would have been able to confront Anders with Kristoff!Justice in tow. Also what sense would it have made for this Justice to try to lure Hawke into doing something stupid, after having just outed another demon for luring Anders into doing something stupid? That'd be the Fade equivalent of someone saying "don't trust strangers in vans with candy... now step into my van, I have candy!" --- I'm not saying that I'm totally onboard with Hepler's idea, because unless it had been written extremely well, this type of effective retcon might have p***ed off a lot of fans and undermined Anders story-arc in DA2 (which Hepler wrote). But I do rather the idea in theory, because it shows how dangerous the denizens of the Fade can be, if you're not careful. It's probably best this was rejected, but it's a cool "What if?" scenario, same as "What if Velanna merged with Justice?". While I see the point of the intent to present the danger of the Fade and the demons, it would inconsistent with Anders/Justice's behaviour in DA2. Anders' work in the clinic and with the manifestos, fit Justice, but not a pride(?) demon, and even in the Fade as Justice behaves, and the SLOTH behaves in his presence (called him pathetic spirit, but called the others and itself demon). It wold be hard to explain Justice's behaviour in the Fade. And Anders merged with Justice, this was not a "simple" possession, when the demon controls the body from the fade, while the host's soul trapped inside the Fade and fight for the body, or just let the demon control it. About Awakening!Justice's inconsistency: Nathaniel convinced him about he can accept an offer from a willing host. Nathaniel: What if you found a living body to possess? Justice: Even if I knew how, I would not possess the living. Such is an act for demons. Nathaniel: What if the person were willing? Justice: Why would a mortal ever allow such a thing? Nathaniel: For life. For love. Perhaps together, you can do what they cannot do alone. If you gave instead of taking, I would consider you no demon. Justice: It is...something to consider. Thank you, Nathaniel. About my feeling toward Jennifer Hepler, is perhaps an exaggeration. She did a good work, Anders/Justice is the most complex and controversial character and the best LI in the whole series, but there are many things because of I feel, she didn't like that character. She called him a bipolar terrorist, suggested, that the friendship way is "maniac", because approve his "delusions" – while he didn't have one delusion, everything that he suspected, said, proved. And now, this... I can't believe, Anders' her favourite character. (Not mentioned, I read, she said, her intention was toward people, who romance him as female!Hawke, that keep the feeling, Anders' straight...) So, yes, I'm biased.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 9, 2018 23:28:26 GMT
While I see the point of the intent to present the danger of the Fade and the demons, it would inconsistent with Anders/Justice's behaviour in DA2. Anders' work in the clinic and with the manifestos, fit Justice, but not a pride(?) demon, and even in the Fade as Justice behaves, and the SLOTH behaves in his presence (called him pathetic spirit, but called the others and itself demon). It wold be hard to explain Justice's behaviour in the Fade.
About Awakening!Justice's inconsistency: Nathaniel convinced him about he can accept an offer from a willing host. Nathaniel: What if you found a living body to possess? Justice: Even if I knew how, I would not possess the living. Such is an act for demons. Nathaniel: What if the person were willing? Justice: Why would a mortal ever allow such a thing? Nathaniel: For life. For love. Perhaps together, you can do what they cannot do alone. If you gave instead of taking, I would consider you no demon. Justice: It is...something to consider. Thank you, Nathaniel.
About my feeling toward Jennifer Hepler, is perhaps an exaggeration. She did a good work, Anders/Justice is the most complex and controversial character and the best LI in the whole series, but there are many thing because of I feel, she didn't like that character. She called him a bipolar terrorist, suggested, that the friendship way is "maniac", because approve his "delusions" – while he didn't have one delusion, everything what he suspected, said, proved. And now, this... I can't believe, Anders' her favourite character. (Not mentioned, I read, she said, her intention was toward people, who romance him as female!Hawke, that keep the feeling, Anders' straight...) So, yes, I'm biased. I like the version in the game better, Anders wanting to help the spirit who he became friends with during Awakening and seeing no other way for Justice to survive they combined. Anders has a lot of compassion. Have a question Catilina if you wouldn't mind. The bolded part, what did Helper mean by that? IDK I thought the FemHawke with Anders was lacking. Here is the source and the quote from David Gaider: "The BioWare character Anders in Dragon Age II is an example of a companion with partially erased bisexuality.
This quote from lead BioWare writer David Gaider explains: "….A player’s choices merely reveal their bisexuality if it exists, rather than defining it. Take Anders, who will reveal to a male Hawke his prior involvement with a man named Karl, but neglect to mention it to a female Hawke. No matter who the player is, Karl was always someone [Anders] was romantically involved with,' says Gaider. 'The part of him the player is exposed to, however, is different. Anders doesn’t mention Karl to a female Hawke because Jennifer Hepler [Anders’ writer] didn’t think he would – and also because a player who prefers to think of Anders as straight is welcome to do so."
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Post by Catilina on Apr 10, 2018 0:04:48 GMT
Here is the source and the quote from David Gaider: "The BioWare character Anders in Dragon Age II is an example of a companion with partially erased bisexuality.
This quote from lead BioWare writer David Gaider explains: "….A player’s choices merely reveal their bisexuality if it exists, rather than defining it. Take Anders, who will reveal to a male Hawke his prior involvement with a man named Karl, but neglect to mention it to a female Hawke. No matter who the player is, Karl was always someone [Anders] was romantically involved with,' says Gaider. 'The part of him the player is exposed to, however, is different. Anders doesn’t mention Karl to a female Hawke because Jennifer Hepler [Anders’ writer] didn’t think he would – and also because a player who prefers to think of Anders as straight is welcome to do so." Thank you for researching and posting. Hadn't known about that- interesting. It always bothered me that Anders didn't mention Karl to the female Hawke. I mean it adds so much more as to why Anders risked his life to save Karl. But I guess I understand for those players who play a female Hawke might want that. I'm very sad about it, that she thought Anders' bisexuality must be hidden if the player wants. There are many prejudices yet toward bisexuality perhaps more than toward the homosexuality. Isabela was openly bisexual. Anders had a beautiful backstory, what remained half-hidden because of the bigotry. Jennifer Hepler thought that who wants romance him as female Hawke, wouldn't accept Anders bisexuality like accept Isabela's bisexuality who play as a male? It's so disturbing if we speak about 2011... But I know... I read similar in Reddit, someone wrote, s/he's glad that Anders doesn't speak about his relationship with Karl to fem!Hawke, because s/he wants to believe, Anders' straight... I think this is just wrong. He's bisexual. His love with Karl is the part of the story. In fact a very important part of the story. And his sexuality not a shame, what must be hidden. Not mentioned... he doesn't need to hide his sexual relationships, if he doesn't mention, among his partners were men as well... (it's clear, he's not virgin, and even clear, he was in Pearl – "electricity thing". This doesn't bother anyone, if the partner was a woman?)
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 10, 2018 15:17:54 GMT
Here Lies the Abyss: Anders' Harrowing? The origin of the name of Ser Pounce-a-Lot? Whatever it is, interesting, I guess: Y'know, this would perfectly tie-in with a rejected pitch that Jennifer Hepler had for some DLC in DA2;
"I can tell you my favourite rejected Bioware proposal that I ever did, which is that I really wanted.
Cause we get a lot of people always complaining, that, y'know, 'Well, I wouldn't do what a demon is tempting me with!', because they don't actually live in that world and there's nothing we can really tempt them with that is worth it.
And I really wanted to do something, where in the first piece of DLC after Dragon Age 2, that Justice walks into town still wearing the body from Awakening and says, 'What do you mean merging with Anders? I never merged with Anders?'
And you realise that he was just tricked by a demon. Because they're that tricky. They're that tricky, that you can believe in them for an entire game and not realise that they were tricking you. But sadly, that was not to be."
- Fresh out of Tokens Podcast, Ep 63, Aug 31, 2016.
(Around the 40 minute mark for those curious)
What if the Spirit we all thought was Justice, was really just the Demon Cat taking the opportunity to "pounce" on Anders? Wow, I never heard that before, that's interesting. I get what Jennifer Hepler was talking about, how it is impossible to give players the experience of what it is like to be possessed or tempted by a demon (even when we play a mage), so they have tried to come up with other ways to trick the player and mess around with our perception... but I agree that plot twist would seem to undermine too much of Anders' character development, and his character arc is twisty enough as is. Although, way back when, before DAI was made, I did wonder if they might play with this idea in an expansion/ sequel, depending on your choices. For instance, if you killed "Anders" at the end, "Justice" could perhaps still live on his body, as he did in Kristoff. So they could have possibly had two different "Anders" returning in a sequel, and keep him in the game. I'm very sad about it, that she thought Anders' bisexuality must be hidden if the player wants. There are many prejudices yet toward bisexuality perhaps more than toward the homosexuality. Isabela was openly bisexual. Anders had a beautiful backstory, what remained half-hidden because of the bigotry. Jennifer Hepler thought that who wants romance him as female Hawke, wouldn't accept Anders bisexuality like accept Isabela's bisexuality who play as a male? It's so disturbing if we speak about 2011... But I know... I read similar in Reddit, someone wrote, s/he's glad that Anders doesn't speak about his relationship with Karl to fem!Hawke, because s/he wants to believe, Anders' straight... I think this is just wrong. He's bisexual. His love with Karl is the part of the story. In fact a very important part of the story. And his sexuality not a shame, what must be hidden. Not mentioned... he doesn't need to hide his sexual relationships, if he doesn't mention, among his partners were men as well... (it's clear, he's not virgin, and even clear, he was in Pearl – "electricity thing". This doesn't bother anyone, if the partner was a woman?) Yeah absolutely agree. Anders story is so lovely, tragic and sad at the same time. And without Karl its like a part of Anders if missing. It's Anders and he like Fenris is perfect they way he is. They shouldn't have changed him for the female player- maybe they have learned this? Not understanding though if BioWare thought Isabella's bisexuality more acceptable then Anders? It doesn't make sense to me. Think Helper was wrong in that assumption even with the Reddit poster saying that. I still want a backstory DLC with Anders,his time in the circle, how he met Karl, his 7 escapes all leading up to meeting the warden in Awakening. I totally agree, the first time I played, I had male Hawke so I got the bit about Karl. It changed my perception of Anders and made his motives more understandable. You could understand *why* he came to Kirkwall, why he had escaped the circle so many times, and *why* he would lie to Hawke, after Karl had been captured and killed for being associated with him. It also explains a lot of his own guilt and anger, and why he is afraid to enter a relationship again, even though he obviously wants to. Without that piece of info, it really does look as if Justice is just driving him insane, and less a result of his own anger and tragic past. She may have done it because they wanted to preserve the "playersexual" illusion of the characters at the time, but in this case it really changes the story. The rivalry only ever made sense to me as femHawke, the dialogue is much better set up for it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 24, 2018 8:17:46 GMT
I'm very sad about it, that she thought Anders' bisexuality must be hidden if the player wants. There are many prejudices yet toward bisexuality perhaps more than toward the homosexuality. Isabela was openly bisexual. Anders had a beautiful backstory, what remained half-hidden because of the bigotry. Jennifer Hepler thought that who wants romance him as female Hawke, wouldn't accept Anders bisexuality like accept Isabela's bisexuality who play as a male? It's so disturbing if we speak about 2011... But I know... I read similar in Reddit, someone wrote, s/he's glad that Anders doesn't speak about his relationship with Karl to fem!Hawke, because s/he wants to believe, Anders' straight... I think this is just wrong. He's bisexual. His love with Karl is the part of the story. In fact a very important part of the story. And his sexuality not a shame, what must be hidden. Not mentioned... he doesn't need to hide his sexual relationships, if he doesn't mention, among his partners were men as well... (it's clear, he's not virgin, and even clear, he was in Pearl – "electricity thing". This doesn't bother anyone, if the partner was a woman?) I had never seen that quote before explaining why the dialogue about Karl is missing with a female Hawke and I have to say I totally agree with you that I am surprised they allowed such prejudice to affect the way Anders' was portrayed to a female character. If the player controlling a female character has a problem with Anders' bisexuality, then tough. If a female Hawke has a problem with it then she won't romance him, end of romance. My first run of DA2 I played a female mage who was intending romancing Anders but ended up with Fenris, basically because when he would have killed Ella but for her talking him down, it frightened her and she decided she could help him better as a friend. Then after I finished playing I came to the boards and I saw people saying how Anders' rage against the Chantry was understandable when you think he saw his lover had been made tranquil and then he had to kill him. I was really puzzled because I felt sure I had seen nothing mentioned about this but assumed perhaps it was a later conversation in the relationship. Then I played as a male Hawke and got the conversation and my immediate thought was why him and not her? Then after WoT2 came out, I discovered the whole backstory for Anders, just how important Karl had been to him and frankly how cruel the Circle had been for separating them in the first place when Irving recognised it had settled Anders down during the time he was with Karl. Karl had been such a significant part of his life why wouldn't he mention it to Hawke, particularly when he had just had the trauma of seeing him tranquil and then having to kill him? So really "straight" Anders is not really Anders as a fully developed character.
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talyn82
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Apr 24, 2018 16:33:59 GMT
I'm very sad about it, that she thought Anders' bisexuality must be hidden if the player wants. There are many prejudices yet toward bisexuality perhaps more than toward the homosexuality. Isabela was openly bisexual. Anders had a beautiful backstory, what remained half-hidden because of the bigotry. Jennifer Hepler thought that who wants romance him as female Hawke, wouldn't accept Anders bisexuality like accept Isabela's bisexuality who play as a male? It's so disturbing if we speak about 2011... But I know... I read similar in Reddit, someone wrote, s/he's glad that Anders doesn't speak about his relationship with Karl to fem!Hawke, because s/he wants to believe, Anders' straight... I think this is just wrong. He's bisexual. His love with Karl is the part of the story. In fact a very important part of the story. And his sexuality not a shame, what must be hidden. Not mentioned... he doesn't need to hide his sexual relationships, if he doesn't mention, among his partners were men as well... (it's clear, he's not virgin, and even clear, he was in Pearl – "electricity thing". This doesn't bother anyone, if the partner was a woman?) I had never seen that quote before explaining why the dialogue about Karl is missing with a female Hawke and I have to say I totally agree with you that I am surprised they allowed such prejudice to affect the way Anders' was portrayed to a female character. If the player controlling a female character has a problem with Anders' bisexuality, then tough. If a female Hawke has a problem with it then she won't romance him, end of romance. My first run of DA2 I played a female mage who was intending romancing Anders but ended up with Fenris, basically because when he would have killed Ella but for her talking him down, it frightened her and she decided she could help him better as a friend. Then after I finished playing I came to the boards and I saw people saying how Anders' rage against the Chantry was understandable when you think he saw his lover had been made tranquil and then he had to kill him. I was really puzzled because I felt sure I had seen nothing mentioned about this but assumed perhaps it was a later conversation in the relationship. Then I played as a male Hawke and got the conversation and my immediate thought was why him and not her? Then after WoT2 came out, I discovered the whole backstory for Anders, just how important Karl had been to him and frankly how cruel the Circle had been for separating them in the first place when Irving recognised it had settled Anders down during the time he was with Karl. Karl had been such a significant part of his life why wouldn't he mention it to Hawke, particularly when he had just had the trauma of seeing him tranquil and then having to kill him? So really "straight" Anders is not really Anders as a fully developed character. I did not know any of that also. The first and only time I played the game was as a female warrior who romanced Anders, and she did not know about his relationship with Karl. She just though they were good friends.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 25, 2018 1:22:57 GMT
This already was there (anywhere) but now time to repost. Anders and Karl sourceAnders' story without Karl, is incomplete, as gervaise21 wrote. Of course, it can be a nice friendship. But that couldn't really explain his deep sadness, when he mentions, he came here for some personal reasons. And when he mentions the letters. Later, when he speaks about what the ages suffer from the persecution (When Justice flares again in the Act1), he mentions "someone's lover" too... It's personal... It shows, there more than friendship ("He was the first..."). Sadly, I know, many people find it "uncomfortable"... but this isn't my problem. My problem is, that this is "normal" to find it uncomfortable, and it's normal to support that. By the way, It's a shame we need to pick the pieces of information from other sources about the characters' and world backgrounds. At least I don't really like it. Who doesn't read The Calling and the Asunder, not even know Fiona (and her relationship with Alistair) for example... not mentioned the whole Orlesian conflict without The Masked Empire... And the World of Thedas...
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Cantina
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Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
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Post by Cantina on Apr 25, 2018 9:43:24 GMT
This already was there (anywhere) but now time to repost. Anders and Karl (Clears throat) Cat, you know I am a female and I am not suppose to see such things according to Helper. Anders is after all suppose to be straight. I feel so sexually harassed right now. Oh the mental anguish!
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Post by Catilina on Apr 25, 2018 12:02:17 GMT
This already was there (anywhere) but now time to repost. Anders and Karl (Clears throat) Cat, you know I am a female and I am not suppose to see such things according to Helper. Anders is after all suppose to be straight. I feel so sexually harassed right now. Oh the mental anguish! What? Oh my! I don't wanted it!
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Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Apr 25, 2018 20:34:14 GMT
(Clears throat) Cat, you know I am a female and I am not suppose to see such things according to Helper. Anders is after all suppose to be straight. I feel so sexually harassed right now. Oh the mental anguish! What? Oh my! I don't wanted it! LMAO! I still wuv you.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 26, 2018 9:44:42 GMT
By the way, It's a shame we need to pick the pieces of information from other sources about the characters' and world backgrounds. At least I don't really like it. Who doesn't read The Calling and the Asunder, not even know Fiona (and her relationship with Alistair) for example... not mentioned the whole Orlesian conflict without The Masked Empire... And the World of Thedas... I also agree with this. There seems an increasing assumption on the part of the writers that people will have read the additional material and so it need not be mentioned in the game. Take the whole Orlesian civil war conflict and the previous relationship between Celene and Briala. You didn't need to know it to complete the quest but if you did then the issues involved seemed trivialised in game in comparison with what you knew in the book. If you knew that Fiona was Alistair's mother then him banishing her after Hushed Whispers and then her asking you what you know of him at Skyhold takes on a poignancy that is totally absent if you are unaware of these things. However, the whole history of Anders prior to your first introduction to him in DAA is so intensely emotional and tragic that it gives a whole different perspective to his character. Of course, WoT2 did not come out until long after DA2 so it is possible they only fleshed him out subsequently because people wanted to know more about him before the time period of the games but I know that it has made me far more sympathetic towards him as a person knowing what I do now, just as my male Hawke understood his motivations far better than my female Hawke did.
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Post by Catilina on May 9, 2018 11:21:13 GMT
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Post by Iddy on May 28, 2018 10:17:23 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny.
Back in Awakening, there was this quest where the templars try to capture Anders again and their leader tells you he'll never be loyal to the GWs. As his friend, you're supposed to react like "(gasps) How dare you slander his name like that? I'll have you know Anders is truly commited!"
Then he runs away and never comes back. Kek.
She was right all along. It makes you feel silly for defending him. Anders just isn't a faction/group kinda guy.
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