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Post by Catilina on May 28, 2018 11:38:57 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny. Back in Awakening, there was this quest where the templars try to capture Anders again and their leader tells you he'll never be loyal to the GWs. As his friend, you're supposed to react like "(gasps) How dare you slander his name like that? I'll have you know Anders is truly commited!" Then he runs away and never comes back. Kek. She was right all along. It makes you feel silly for defending him. Anders just isn't a faction/group kinda guy. Anders tells to the Warden Commander, that he doesn't like to be a Warden, he just thinks, this is an improvement after the Circle. He doesn't lie about it for a moment. My Warden made him Grey Warden, because he wanted to save him, and in the current battle, he seems strong (he killed many darkspawn and possibly the Templars). To become a Grey Warden isn't something that just disappears. This isn't some gift. He saved Anders' life, but he also took away Anders' life. It depends on the viewpoint. For example, my Circle Mage Warden was happy when Duncan spoke about he recruits people, because he saw the way out of the Circle, not because he wanted to be a part of an army, or become some kind of hero. He would strongly prefer Jowan's method – sadly, his phylactery was not there... My Dalish elf was tainted already. He didn't get a chance to choose, just as the others. The Warden is an accidental hero. But he can be proud of it, or can just do the job because there's no chance to avoid that. This is Anders. He saved Amarantine/Vigil's Keep, and left, to serve his people. There are people who nobody can bind.
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Post by Rascoth on May 28, 2018 16:50:28 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny. Back in Awakening, there was this quest where the templars try to capture Anders again and their leader tells you he'll never be loyal to the GWs. As his friend, you're supposed to react like "(gasps) How dare you slander his name like that? I'll have you know Anders is truly commited!" Then he runs away and never comes back. Kek. She was right all along. It makes you feel silly for defending him. Anders just isn't a faction/group kinda guy. He tells you from the beginning him being GW is just a means to escape the Circle. That's why my characters never expected loyalty toward GWs, but loyalty to them. And he never breaks that trust. He runs away after our Warden / Orlesian GW leaves Amaranthine. Plus he didn't run away just like that. Templars who joined GWs just to keep watch over him made him run for his life. So yeah, she was right, but also she wasn't.
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Post by Catilina on May 28, 2018 17:20:29 GMT
You know, it's kinda funny. Back in Awakening, there was this quest where the templars try to capture Anders again and their leader tells you he'll never be loyal to the GWs. As his friend, you're supposed to react like "(gasps) How dare you slander his name like that? I'll have you know Anders is truly commited!" Then he runs away and never comes back. Kek. She was right all along. It makes you feel silly for defending him. Anders just isn't a faction/group kinda guy. He tells you from the beginning him being GW is just a means to escape the Circle. That's why my characters never expected loyalty toward GWs, but loyalty to them. And he never breaks that trust. He runs away after our Warden / Orlesian GW leaves Amaranthine. Plus he didn't run away just like that. Templars who joined GWs just to keep watch over him made him run for his life. So yeah, she was right, but also she wasn't. Exactly. This is the other reason (sadly the game doesn't show it, only clues and his short story). At the end of Awakening seems, he at least found his place, but one of the Templars who persecuted him, Rolan, joined to the Wardens. So: at the end, the Templars and some Wardens were who made it impossible for him to stay with the Wardens. Not he was who betrayed the Wardens. But sadly, this isn't an in-game information, sadly.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 29, 2018 7:40:09 GMT
Exactly. This is the other reason (sadly the game doesn't show it, only clues and his short story). At the end of Awakening seems, he at least found his place, but one of the Templars who persecuted him, Rolan, joined to the Wardens. So: at the end, the Templars and some Wardens were who made it impossible for him to stay with the Wardens. Not he was who betrayed the Wardens. But sadly, this isn't an in-game information, sadly. It is one of the things that annoys me with the writers that they seem to assume that people will have read the short story and so know why Anders left the Wardens. In fact how he even came to be joined with Justice. In fact they also conveniently hand-waved the time discrepancy in the story of Anders. Awakening didn't take place until after the Blight was over. Then there had to be a period of weeks/months in dealing with the threat of the Architect. Yet Anders would appear to have already been in place in the city at the end of Hawke's period of indentured servitude which was only a year from arriving in Kirkwall. To my mind it just wasn't possible. For me Anders hiding out in Kirkwall and never going back didn't fit with my epilogue to Awakening. In that it said he stayed to train our next generation of mages, left for a couple of months to give a lecture on the nature of the Architect to the College of Enchanters but then returned for good. He only leaves never to return if you do not do his companion quest, which I always did. So the scenario for a Hero who is a friend just doesn't fit with DA2. Plus he said the Wardens made him give up Ser Pouncelot. My Warden gave him Ser Pouncelot and was around running Vigil's Keep until apparently he left looking for a cure (some years later) so would have vehemently fought any attempt by other wardens to make Anders' give up his cat. I've said it before in connection with what happens to the Wardens in the south. It seems to me that the writers found Awakening an inconvenience to their preferred storyline so they simply chose to ignore everything that happened in it as related to the Hero of Ferelden. In their (canon) world state the Hero had sacrificed themselves in killing the arch-demon, so Vigil's Keep would have been run by the Orlesian replacement and thus everything that happened subsequently could be made to fit. Sadly this meant that if your Hero survived there were repeated instances of the plot jarring with what you knew to have happened.
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Post by Catilina on May 29, 2018 12:45:18 GMT
Exactly. This is the other reason (sadly the game doesn't show it, only clues and his short story). At the end of Awakening seems, he at least found his place, but one of the Templars who persecuted him, Rolan, joined to the Wardens. So: at the end, the Templars and some Wardens were who made it impossible for him to stay with the Wardens. Not he was who betrayed the Wardens. But sadly, this isn't an in-game information, sadly. It is one of the things that annoys me with the writers that they seem to assume that people will have read the short story and so know why Anders left the Wardens. In fact how he even came to be joined with Justice. In fact they also conveniently hand-waved the time discrepancy in the story of Anders. Awakening didn't take place until after the Blight was over. Then there had to be a period of weeks/months in dealing with the threat of the Architect. Yet Anders would appear to have already been in place in the city at the end of Hawke's period of indentured servitude which was only a year from arriving in Kirkwall. To my mind it just wasn't possible.
For me Anders hiding out in Kirkwall and never going back didn't fit with my epilogue to Awakening. In that it said he stayed to train our next generation of mages, left for a couple of months to give a lecture on the nature of the Architect to the College of Enchanters but then returned for good. He only leaves never to return if you do not do his companion quest, which I always did. So the scenario for a Hero who is a friend just doesn't fit with DA2. Plus he said the Wardens made him give up Ser Pouncelot. My Warden gave him Ser Pouncelot and was around running Vigil's Keep until apparently he left looking for a cure (some years later) so would have vehemently fought any attempt by other wardens to make Anders' give up his cat.
I've said it before in connection with what happens to the Wardens in the south. It seems to me that the writers found Awakening an inconvenience to their preferred storyline so they simply chose to ignore everything that happened in it as related to the Hero of Ferelden. In their (canon) world state the Hero had sacrificed themselves in killing the arch-demon, so Vigil's Keep would have been run by the Orlesian replacement and thus everything that happened subsequently could be made to fit. Sadly this meant that if your Hero survived there were repeated instances of the plot jarring with what you knew to have happened. After Anders spoke about how he dislikes being Warden (in Awakening), I was not surprised when it came out, he left the Wardens, even if at the end, in the epilogue he's happy with his fate (and with ser Pounce). But yes, it's a disappointing we have many decisions, that go to the Abyss in the future games. And there will always explanations: Wynne didn't die, because the Spirit of Fait protected her, Leliana didn't die, because... whatever... Anders didn't die in Awakening if the Warden gives him to the Templars (who wanted to execute him!) because... he escaped again? And Justice... where Justice met with Anders, if the Warden sends Anders or/and Justice away... So: the decisions no matters, they write the story. The cake is a lie. And the epilogues... many of them are weird, for example the Inquisition end with Anders romanced Hawke... I'm not sure, they would back to Kirkwall.
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Post by Rascoth on May 29, 2018 16:16:47 GMT
gervaise21 The fact that some knowledge is outside the game annoys me as well. Hell, even such a small, little thing as Alistair mentioning seeing his father in the Fade pisses me off, since someone who hasn't read the comics (and at the time of my first pts I didn't) doesn't know what he's referring to. As for Awakening epilogues... Overall all DAO epilogues give me a headache. Anders' one of the most bewildering ones
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Sah291 on Jun 1, 2018 13:18:53 GMT
I remember the writers saying ages ago about how the epilogues (especially in the older games like Awakening) are mostly there for those who are playing the game once and not necessarily following the series, to give closure. So they should just be taken as in world "rumors" or "gossip" about the characters, and not necessarily set in stone. Though I always got the impression from certain banter and dialogue, it was implied Anders had a habit of running away from his problems and getting into trouble with the wrong people, at least until he met Justice and that was one of the reasons why they merged. At the final battle in Awakening, he is the only companion who actually gives approval if you don't take him with you. Despite everyone thinking he was killing Templars, I don't think he actually liked to fight at all...and that was something he had to get over if he was going to be a Warden. Maybe he did want to stay for a while, but since leadership apparently went to hell after our own Warden left, who could blame him. Besides, knowing what we know now, he still wanted to go after Karl. But even with his own cause helping the mages, after the whole Ella thing Anders is so devastated he is ready to give up and run away again, at first. It's not something that is resolved until the end, if you make the right choices....he either ends the game even more broken and wanting to give up completely, ultimately commiting suicide, or has a newfound sense of confidence and purpose. I've actually only read 2 of the books, myself, I'm happy otherwise just filling in the blanks with my imagination, haha. Although I'm starting to wish now they would come out with more side stuff now, considering they are taking so long between games.
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talyn82
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Jun 1, 2018 19:03:58 GMT
When exactly did Anders merge with Justice? In Awakening, Justice was inside the corpse of Kristoff. I think in the end Justice leaves Kristoff's body. Don't remember. I never read the books only one comic, with Alistair, Isabela, Varric, and Morrigan's sister. Which books do you recommend? Which is the one where Wynne dies? She was one of my favorite characters in DA:O.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 1, 2018 20:14:54 GMT
When exactly did Anders merge with Justice? In Awakening, Justice was inside the corpse of Kristoff. I think in the end Justice leaves Kristoff's body. Don't remember. I never read the books only one comic, with Alistair, Isabela, Varric, and Morrigan's sister. Which books do you recommend? Which is the one where Wynne dies? She was one of my favorite characters in DA:O. Dragon Age: Asunder
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Jun 1, 2018 23:33:00 GMT
When exactly did Anders merge with Justice? In Awakening, Justice was inside the corpse of Kristoff. I think in the end Justice leaves Kristoff's body. Don't remember. I never read the books only one comic, with Alistair, Isabela, Varric, and Morrigan's sister. Which books do you recommend? Which is the one where Wynne dies? She was one of my favorite characters in DA:O. Dragon Age: Asunder Okay, thank you. I will order the book. Wynne was one of my favorites. She was the mother figure of the group.
Edit: I found a collection of five DA books by David Gaider for a reasonable price. Asunder is one of them. Are the other books in the collection worth the price?
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Jun 2, 2018 2:30:38 GMT
Okay, thank you. I will order the book. Wynne was one of my favorites. She was the mother figure of the group.
Edit: I found a collection of five DA books by David Gaider for a reasonable price. Asunder is one of them. Are the other books in the collection worth the price?
I haven't read the last one but the first 4 are excellent, very fun books. Wynne . Okay, thanks. I will order the collection then. And yeah Wynne.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2018 3:42:56 GMT
When exactly did Anders merge with Justice? In Awakening, Justice was inside the corpse of Kristoff. I think in the end Justice leaves Kristoff's body. Don't remember. I never read the books only one comic, with Alistair, Isabela, Varric, and Morrigan's sister. Which books do you recommend? Which is the one where Wynne dies? She was one of my favorite characters in DA:O. Just maximum 1-2 months after the Amarantine incident. Here's his short story – about his first experience of Justice's power and rage. This is the experience he talked about, when scared Merrill, I suppose, not Ella because he doesn't necessarily kill Ella.
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N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Jun 2, 2018 4:08:04 GMT
When exactly did Anders merge with Justice? In Awakening, Justice was inside the corpse of Kristoff. I think in the end Justice leaves Kristoff's body. Don't remember. I never read the books only one comic, with Alistair, Isabela, Varric, and Morrigan's sister. Which books do you recommend? Which is the one where Wynne dies? She was one of my favorite characters in DA:O. Just a 1-2 months after the Amarantine incident. Here's his short story – about his first experience of Justice's power and rage. This is the experience he talked about, when scared Merrill, I suppose, not Ella because he doesn't necessarily kill Ella. Wow, that was a great story. It gives great background story to Anders. This should have been in game during a conversation about his past. Thank you for the link.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 2, 2018 5:11:18 GMT
When exactly did Anders merge with Justice? In Awakening, Justice was inside the corpse of Kristoff. I think in the end Justice leaves Kristoff's body. Don't remember. I never read the books only one comic, with Alistair, Isabela, Varric, and Morrigan's sister. Which books do you recommend? Which is the one where Wynne dies? She was one of my favorite characters in DA:O. Just a 1-2 months after the Amarantine incident. Here's his short story – about his first experience of Justice's power and rage. This is the experience he talked about, when scared Merrill, I suppose, not Ella because he doesn't necessarily kill Ella. No, the experience he is referring to is when he kills Ella. These dialogues only trigger after Dissent. Merrill: Are you all right? Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right? Merrill: I'm sorry. Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls! Merrill: Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. Merrill: All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't. Anders: It's not a good feeling, you know. Merrill: What? Anders: Being an abomination. I just got a taste of your future. Merrill: I'm not that foolish. Our relationship is, um, strictly platonic. Anders: It's like you're trapped in your own body, seeing out your eyes, while someone else moves you like a puppet. Anders: And you're trying to scream, to move a single muscle, but there's no escape. Until you look down at the blood on your hands... Merrill: Stop it. You're scaring me. Anders: That's the point. Plus in the banter he says he just had it, while at the time of the banter the event of the short story happened years ago so wouldn't fit words like 'just'. Also just one of many hypocritical banters of Anders.
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 3,690 Likes: 10,239
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Post by talyn82 on Jun 2, 2018 5:21:13 GMT
Just a 1-2 months after the Amarantine incident. Here's his short story – about his first experience of Justice's power and rage. This is the experience he talked about, when scared Merrill, I suppose, not Ella because he doesn't necessarily kill Ella. No, the experience he is referring to is when he kills Ella. The dialogue is different depending on if he did or not. If Ella lives: Merrill: Are you all right? Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right? Merrill: I'm sorry. Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls! Merrill: Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. Merrill: All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't. If Ella dies: Anders: It's not a good feeling, you know. Merrill: What? Anders: Being an abomination. I just got a taste of your future. Merrill: I'm not that foolish. Our relationship is, um, strictly platonic. Anders: It's like you're trapped in your own body, seeing out your eyes, while someone else moves you like a puppet. Anders: And you're trying to scream, to move a single muscle, but there's no escape. Until you look down at the blood on your hands... Merrill: Stop it. You're scaring me. Anders: That's the point. Plus in the banter he says he just had it, while at the time of the banter the event of the short story happened years ago so wouldn't fit words like just. Also just one of many hypocritical banters of Anders. I remember the conversation between Anders and Merrill. In my current PT Anders did not kill Ella, Hawke calmed him down.
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 2, 2018 10:42:24 GMT
Just a 1-2 months after the Amarantine incident. Here's his short story – about his first experience of Justice's power and rage. This is the experience he talked about, when scared Merrill, I suppose, not Ella because he doesn't necessarily kill Ella. Wow, that was a great story. It gives great background story to Anders. This should have been in game during a conversation about his past. Thank you for the link. I suggest reading other short stories as well. All DA2 companions have them.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2018 10:47:46 GMT
Just a 1-2 months after the Amarantine incident. Here's his short story – about his first experience of Justice's power and rage. This is the experience he talked about, when scared Merrill, I suppose, not Ella because he doesn't necessarily kill Ella. No, the experience he is referring to is when he kills Ella. These dialogues only trigger after Dissent.
Merrill: Are you all right? Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right? Merrill: I'm sorry. Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls! Merrill: Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. Merrill: All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.
Anders: It's not a good feeling, you know. Merrill: What? Anders: Being an abomination. I just got a taste of your future. Merrill: I'm not that foolish. Our relationship is, um, strictly platonic. Anders: It's like you're trapped in your own body, seeing out your eyes, while someone else moves you like a puppet. Anders: And you're trying to scream, to move a single muscle, but there's no escape. Until you look down at the blood on your hands... Merrill: Stop it. You're scaring me. Anders: That's the point.
Plus in the banter he says he just had it, while at the time of the banter the event of the short story happened years ago so wouldn't fit words like 'just'. Also just one of many hypocritical banters of Anders. The first. The second one fits better the short story. I spoke about the second one. The first one clearly about Ella. The second one also can be – who didn't read the Short Story, will recognize Ella's case, but the massacre of the Short Story, fits better, and Justice can retreat in Ella's case. Still frightening, but the first experience is the strongest one. Both started as self-defence but only the first one ended in a massacre in any case. In the second case, Justice/Anders can hear Hawke. For me, this is a very important moment. You're right about, that if he killed Ella, this case is much more frightening because the first was clearly self-defence: the Wardens also attacked him, but Ella was innocent. Anders' rude, yes. Merrill deserves? Not. But hypocritical? Not. He speaks about his personal experience. He wants to scare Merrill. You can say, he's not right, because Merrill is good at the blood magic and the spirits, and I agree with that (while we know, Merrill was able to deal with the pride demon), but he has every right to warn her. Everyone has the chance to be possessed, and a blood mage has the even bigger chance, at least according Anders knowledge and beliefs – and Merrill obsession with the Eluvian isn't negligible. (I used the "obsession" word positively, you know, I agree with Merrill, but still: this kind of passion can be dangerous and can to drowse the vigilance.) Anyway: Merrill as Dalish perhaps knows the spirit and the Fade better, than an Andrastian Circle Mage, but Anders has a spirit in his head, and he knows what means if that spirit confused and loses the control. So: his warning is rude, but not hypocritical.
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talyn82
N5
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
Posts: 3,690 Likes: 10,239
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Post by talyn82 on Jun 2, 2018 16:28:22 GMT
Wow, that was a great story. It gives great background story to Anders. This should have been in game during a conversation about his past. Thank you for the link. I suggest reading other short stories as well. All DA2 companions have them.I will look up the short stories, thanks.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 2, 2018 20:33:38 GMT
No, the experience he is referring to is when he kills Ella. These dialogues only trigger after Dissent.
Merrill: Are you all right? Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right? Merrill: I'm sorry. Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls! Merrill: Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. Merrill: All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.
Anders: It's not a good feeling, you know. Merrill: What? Anders: Being an abomination. I just got a taste of your future. Merrill: I'm not that foolish. Our relationship is, um, strictly platonic. Anders: It's like you're trapped in your own body, seeing out your eyes, while someone else moves you like a puppet. Anders: And you're trying to scream, to move a single muscle, but there's no escape. Until you look down at the blood on your hands... Merrill: Stop it. You're scaring me. Anders: That's the point.
Plus in the banter he says he just had it, while at the time of the banter the event of the short story happened years ago so wouldn't fit words like 'just'. Also just one of many hypocritical banters of Anders. The first. The second one fits better the short story. I spoke about the second one. The first one clearly about Ella. The second one also can be – who didn't read the Short Story, will recognize Ella's case, but the massacre of the Short Story, fits better, and Justice can retreat in Ella's case. Still frightening, but the first experience is the strongest one. Both started as self-defence but only the first one ended in a massacre in any case. In the second case, Justice/Anders can hear Hawke. For me, this is a very important moment. You're right about, that if he killed Ella, this case is much more frightening because the first was clearly self-defence: the Wardens also attacked him, but Ella was innocent. Anders' rude, yes. Merrill deserves? Not. But hypocritical? Not. He speaks about his personal experience. He wants to scare Merrill. You can say, he's not right, because Merrill is good at the blood magic and the spirits, and I agree with that (while we know, Merrill was able to deal with the pride demon), but he has every right to warn her. Everyone has the chance to be possessed, and a blood mage has the even bigger chance, at least according Anders knowledge and beliefs – and Merrill obsession with the Eluvian isn't negligible. (I used the "obsession" word positively, you know, I agree with Merrill, but still: this kind of passion can be dangerous and can to drowse the vigilance.) Anyway: Merrill as Dalish perhaps knows the spirit and the Fade better, than an Andrastian Circle Mage, but Anders has a spirit in his head, and he knows what means if that spirit confused and loses the control. So: his warning is rude, but not hypocritical. Hypocrite is defined as a person who acts in contradiction to their stated beliefs or feelings. In this case, Anders lectures about not doing things like taking in spirits putting down Merrill even though she hasn't even though he has and in the same game embraces Justice being within him. To use a real world example, that's like someone who doesn't smoke(Merrill) being told to not smoke by a smoker...who still smokes(Anders). Yes the smoker may have the other person's best interests at heart(though considering some of Anders' other outright terrible banter to Merrill I doubt that) but even if it is with good intentions it is still an act of hypocrisy since he doesn't practice what he preaches. Now if after that event he strives to get Justice out of him then it wouldn't be an act of hypocrisy, or in my example if the smoker who lectures the non-smoker is trying to quit smoking as they warn them. But at least you agree that what he did in that banter was not right. As for him referring to his short story, we'll have to agree to disagree. Sure you can connect it to that if you want, but considering some of the words and how it is programmed into the game triggering only after Dissent is completed it is clear that the devs intended it to refer to Ella. Referring to the short story is just an unintended perk.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2018 21:17:56 GMT
The first. The second one fits better the short story. I spoke about the second one. The first one clearly about Ella. The second one also can be – who didn't read the Short Story, will recognize Ella's case, but the massacre of the Short Story, fits better, and Justice can retreat in Ella's case. Still frightening, but the first experience is the strongest one. Both started as self-defence but only the first one ended in a massacre in any case. In the second case, Justice/Anders can hear Hawke. For me, this is a very important moment. You're right about, that if he killed Ella, this case is much more frightening because the first was clearly self-defence: the Wardens also attacked him, but Ella was innocent.
Anders' rude, yes. Merrill deserves? Not. But hypocritical? Not. He speaks about his personal experience. He wants to scare Merrill. You can say, he's not right, because Merrill is good at the blood magic and the spirits, and I agree with that (while we know, Merrill was able to deal with the pride demon), but he has every right to warn her. Everyone has the chance to be possessed, and a blood mage has the even bigger chance, at least according Anders knowledge and beliefs – and Merrill obsession with the Eluvian isn't negligible. (I used the "obsession" word positively, you know, I agree with Merrill, but still: this kind of passion can be dangerous and can to drowse the vigilance.) Anyway: Merrill as Dalish perhaps knows the spirit and the Fade better, than an Andrastian Circle Mage, but Anders has a spirit in his head, and he knows what means if that spirit confused and loses the control. So: his warning is rude, but not hypocritical. Hypocrite is defined as a person who acts in contradiction to their stated beliefs or feelings. In this case, Anders lectures about not doing things like taking in spirits putting down Merrill even though she hasn't even though he has and in the same game embraces Justice being within him. To use a real world example, that's like someone who doesn't smoke(Merrill) being told to not smoke by a smoker...who still smokes(Anders). Yes the smoker may have the other person's best interests at heart(though considering some of Anders' other outright terrible banter to Merrill I doubt that) but even if it is with good intentions it is still an act of hypocrisy since he doesn't practice what he preaches. Now if after that event he strives to get Justice out of him then it wouldn't be an act of hypocrisy, or in my example if the smoker who lectures the non-smoker is trying to quit smoking as they warn them. But at least you agree that what he did in that banter was not right.
As for him referring to his short story, we'll have to agree to disagree. Sure you can connect it to that if you want, but considering some of the words and how it is programmed into the game triggering only after Dissent is completed it is clear that the devs intended it to refer to Ella. Referring to the short story is just an unintended perk. At first. A smoker, especially who already experienced the harmful side effects of the smoking, can warn people about these without being a hypocrite. He can't stop it, but can warn people do not use. Merrill used demons – at least wanted to do. She knows, hat she does (if we do not count about, what happened inside the Fade), but Anders still can warn her, this can't end well. He believes, he's right. Anders: Your Keeper did not deserve that death. Merrill: It was my risk to take! I never asked her to do this for me. Anders: She knew you didn't have the strength to resist the demon. That's why it picked you. Merrill: Why are you doing this? What can I do about it now? Anders: Make up for your mistakes. Most blood mages never get a second chance.And while he had bad experiences about Justice, he still believes, Justice's a good spirit – true, his faith is shaken and he's not sure about sometimes. And he doesn't want Merrill to do a bigger mistake, with a demon – because he believes, the Mirror's spirit is a demon. Again, this isn't hypocrisy. He really believes, what he did, is different but even knows the danger. Justice also spoke about Torpor as a demon, while the slot called him spirit. This about his beliefs. Merrill: You really believe don't you? Anders: What are you talking about? Merrill: Believing. You do, I can tell, in freedom, in mages, in good spirits and bad templars. With more fire than the sun. Anders: And your point is? Merrill: I miss it sometimes, things being certain. Anders: Some things are certain.Merrill: Not anymore. At second: I don't understand, what's the problem is I think, he rather spoke about his first experience, but I don't deny, both can terrifying, even if he doesn't kill Ella. He spoke about blood in his hand. I don't think he would be terrified about killing Otto Alric and his accomplices and their blood on his hand...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 2, 2018 22:03:41 GMT
Hypocrite is defined as a person who acts in contradiction to their stated beliefs or feelings. In this case, Anders lectures about not doing things like taking in spirits putting down Merrill even though she hasn't even though he has and in the same game embraces Justice being within him. To use a real world example, that's like someone who doesn't smoke(Merrill) being told to not smoke by a smoker...who still smokes(Anders). Yes the smoker may have the other person's best interests at heart(though considering some of Anders' other outright terrible banter to Merrill I doubt that) but even if it is with good intentions it is still an act of hypocrisy since he doesn't practice what he preaches. Now if after that event he strives to get Justice out of him then it wouldn't be an act of hypocrisy, or in my example if the smoker who lectures the non-smoker is trying to quit smoking as they warn them. But at least you agree that what he did in that banter was not right.
As for him referring to his short story, we'll have to agree to disagree. Sure you can connect it to that if you want, but considering some of the words and how it is programmed into the game triggering only after Dissent is completed it is clear that the devs intended it to refer to Ella. Referring to the short story is just an unintended perk. At first. A smoker, especially who already experienced the harmful side effects of the smoking, can warn people about these without being a hypocrite. He can't stop it, but can warn people do not use. Merrill used demons – at least wanted to do. She knows, hat she does (if we do not count about, what happened inside the Fade), but Anders still can warn her, this can't end well. He believes, he's right. Anders: Your Keeper did not deserve that death. Merrill: It was my risk to take! I never asked her to do this for me. Anders: She knew you didn't have the strength to resist the demon. That's why it picked you. Merrill: Why are you doing this? What can I do about it now? Anders: Make up for your mistakes. Most blood mages never get a second chance.And while he had bad experiences about Justice, he still believes, Justice's a good spirit – true, his faith is shaken and he's not sure about sometimes. And he doesn't want Merrill to do a bigger mistake, with a demon – because he believes, the Mirror's spirit is a demon. Again, this isn't hypocrisy. He really believes, what he did, is different but even knows the danger. Justice also spoke about Torpor as a demon, while the slot called him spirit. This about his beliefs. Merrill: You really believe don't you? Anders: What are you talking about? Merrill: Believing. You do, I can tell, in freedom, in mages, in good spirits and bad templars. With more fire than the sun. Anders: And your point is? Merrill: I miss it sometimes, things being certain. Anders: Some things are certain.Merrill: Not anymore. At second: I don't understand, what's the problem is I think, he rather spoke about his first experience, but I don't deny, both can terrifying, even if he doesn't kill Ella. He spoke about blood in his hand. I don't think he would be terrified about killing Otto Alric and his accomplices and their blood on his hand... It is hypocritical though, since the person is saying don't do this while doing that thing they say you shouldn't do. Now let me say that being a hypocrite isn't always a bad thing depending on the reason for the hypocrisy. A great example is all the parents who tell their kids that they should always be honest yet lie to their children about certain characters like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. The parents are being hypocrites, but the reason is to bring their children joy so it is a positive case. Likewise with the previous examples, since the reason for the hypocrisy is a noble one in that they are warning the person not to make the mistakes they did. With Anders, he was just a dick about it. Not the worse case of hypocrisy though from him, that goes to him being so against mages being treated like slaves and objects yet him literally approving of sending Fenris to slavery(the only companion who agrees with that decision).
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Post by Catilina on Jun 2, 2018 22:40:12 GMT
At first. A smoker, especially who already experienced the harmful side effects of the smoking, can warn people about these without being a hypocrite. He can't stop it, but can warn people do not use. Merrill used demons – at least wanted to do. She knows, hat she does (if we do not count about, what happened inside the Fade), but Anders still can warn her, this can't end well. He believes, he's right.
Anders: Your Keeper did not deserve that death. Merrill: It was my risk to take! I never asked her to do this for me. Anders: She knew you didn't have the strength to resist the demon. That's why it picked you. Merrill: Why are you doing this? What can I do about it now? Anders: Make up for your mistakes. Most blood mages never get a second chance.
And while he had bad experiences about Justice, he still believes, Justice's a good spirit – true, his faith is shaken and he's not sure about sometimes. And he doesn't want Merrill to do a bigger mistake, with a demon – because he believes, the Mirror's spirit is a demon. Again, this isn't hypocrisy. He really believes, what he did, is different but even knows the danger. Justice also spoke about Torpor as a demon, while the slot called him spirit. This about his beliefs.
Merrill: You really believe don't you? Anders: What are you talking about? Merrill: Believing. You do, I can tell, in freedom, in mages, in good spirits and bad templars. With more fire than the sun. Anders: And your point is? Merrill: I miss it sometimes, things being certain. Anders: Some things are certain. Merrill: Not anymore.
At second: I don't understand, what's the problem is I think, he rather spoke about his first experience, but I don't deny, both can terrifying, even if he doesn't kill Ella. He spoke about blood in his hand. I don't think he would be terrified about killing Otto Alric and his accomplices and their blood on his hand... It is hypocritical though, since the person is saying don't do this while doing that thing they say you shouldn't do. Now let me say that being a hypocrite isn't always a bad thing depending on the reason for the hypocrisy. A great example is all the parents who tell their kids that they should always be honest yet lie to their children about certain characters like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. The parents are being hypocrites, but the reason is to bring their children joy so it is a positive case. Likewise with the previous examples, since the reason for the hypocrisy is a noble one in that they are warning the person not to make the mistakes they did. With Anders, he was just a dick about it. Not the worse case of hypocrisy though from him, that goes to him being so against mages being treated like slaves and objects yet him literally approving of sending Fenris to slavery(the only companion who agrees with that decision). 1. But I explained to you that Andres doesn't do that according to his beliefs. He was never a blood mage. And he believes Justice's still spirit. And Justice also believes he's a spirit. Anders already also Justice as well. He makes difference between the demons and spirits. Is he right? It's more difficult – He and Justice believe, but even know, the spirits can change. I said: everything about the beliefs. Not hypocrisy. And even he believes, what he says is the truth. (The parents in your example doesn't believe that Santa Claus will slip out of the chimney...) And he fears about he changed Justice, but he can't change the past. But Merrill can avoid it if she stops using blood magic. He believes in it. "Most blood mages never get a second chance."2. And Merrill's the only who approves if Hawke let Torpor to possess Feynriel. So: Anders' is right about her yet?...
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Post by pavellaning on Jun 8, 2018 13:23:24 GMT
I always let Anders live even though I play as a pro-Templar Hawke.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 8, 2018 14:14:18 GMT
I always let Anders live even though I play as a pro-Templar Hawke. It's a good choice to let him fight for his people and to die in battle.
But to turn him against them – no. Rather kill him. He willing to die.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 17, 2018 21:49:05 GMT
“It is time. You have shown me an injustice greater than any I have faced. Do you have the courage to accept my aid?” I knew what he offered.(Anders’ short story) source
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