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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 16, 2018 7:49:35 GMT
I'm playing through DA2 again after a considerable break and have just finished the section with Karl. When we go back to the clinic and Anders is talking about Justice and the nature of spirits, he says something interesting. He says that spirits are the Maker's first children, which is normal Chantry dogma, but then he says that the spirits that embody the different virtues have "all but given up on us".
I did a double take over that. Have I misunderstood this? He is definitely talking about spirits isn't he? If so, then this is definitely not Chantry dogma. There is no suggestion in Chantry teaching that "good" spirits are wanting to get involved but disillusioned by the lack of suitable subjects. Chantry teaching mostly focusses on demons and suggests that they are the only ones wanting to get involved in human affairs and good spirits just aren't that interested. Anders' statement suggests the opposite and clearly that comes from his connection with Justice, although of course he was previously a spirit healer and that naturally gives him a closer connection with the spirit world than the majority of mages.
I've long held a theory that spirits want to help but Chantry teaching has made people so afraid of any contact by the spirit world that it makes it almost impossible for them to do so. The Templars barely tolerate Spirit Healers and take a very dim view a Spirit Warriors, both of which involve the assistance of spirits. So is this what Anders' means?
Any ideas as to what he meant by that statement?
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Post by Catilina on Jul 17, 2018 1:26:11 GMT
I'm playing through DA2 again after a considerable break and have just finished the section with Karl. When we go back to the clinic and Anders is talking about Justice and the nature of spirits, he says something interesting. He says that spirits are the Maker's first children, which is normal Chantry dogma, but then he says that the spirits that embody the different virtues have "all but given up on us". I did a double take over that. Have I misunderstood this? He is definitely talking about spirits isn't he? If so, then this is definitely not Chantry dogma. There is no suggestion in Chantry teaching that "good" spirits are wanting to get involved but disillusioned by the lack of suitable subjects. Chantry teaching mostly focusses on demons and suggests that they are the only ones wanting to get involved in human affairs and good spirits just aren't that interested. Anders' statement suggests the opposite and clearly that comes from his connection with Justice, although of course he was previously a spirit healer and that naturally gives him a closer connection with the spirit world than the majority of mages. I've long held a theory that spirits want to help but Chantry teaching has made people so afraid of any contact by the spirit world that it makes it almost impossible for them to do so. The Templars barely tolerate Spirit Healers and take a very dim view a Spirit Warriors, both of which involve the assistance of spirits. So is this what Anders' means? Any ideas as to what he meant by that statement? This is a very interesting half-sentence indeed. And I love the idea. Anders' Andrastian, yes but as a Spirit Healer he obviously in a closer relationship with the spirits, and I think, he knows the benevolent spirits always helps – when he heals, he got these spirits' energy, without forcing them.
Some spirit healers think, this is a calling, a benevolent spirit chose them. According this, the benevolent spirits want to help.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 30, 2018 16:45:58 GMT
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 2, 2018 7:44:00 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Aug 2, 2018 10:57:47 GMT
That's great, thank you! Shared...
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Post by Catilina on Aug 2, 2018 20:05:31 GMT
“Anders may have talents, but playing the lute isn’t one of them”source
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Post by Iddy on Aug 12, 2018 0:27:53 GMT
If Anders had never merged with Justice, how long would it take for him to become the revolutionary he is?
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Post by Catilina on Aug 12, 2018 0:42:56 GMT
If Anders had never merged with Justice, how long would it take for him to become the revolutionary he is? He said to Isabela, that he was not able to stop thinking about what Justice said. So: I think he planned it but how long would it have been for him, or would he have been persevering at all? I do not know. He said to Justice, it's so difficult. Justice: I understand that you struggle against your oppression, mage. Anders: I avoid my oppression. That's not quite the same thing, is it? Justice: Why do you not strike a blow against your oppressors? Ensure they can do this to no one else? Anders: Because it sounds difficult? Justice: Apathy is a weakness. Anders: So is death. I'm just saying.
───────
Justice: I believe you have a responsibility to your fellow mages. Anders: That bit of self-righteousness is directed at me? Justice: You have seen oppression and are now free. You must act to free those who remain oppressed. Anders: Or I could mind my business, in case the Chantry comes knocking. Justice: But this is not right. You have an obligation. Anders: Yes, well... welcome to the world, spirit. ________ ________
Anders: Sometimes, I think you have the right idea. Isabela: Handcuffs, whipped cream, always be on top? Anders: I never used to give two bits what anyone thought of me. Anders: Justice once asked me why I didn't do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work. But I couldn't go back after that. Couldn't stop thinking about it. Sometimes, I miss being that selfish. Isabela: Huh? Were you talking? I was still at "whipped cream." True, somewhere he had perseverance: he escaped 7 times, never gave up. Only he didn't think about a revolution before, it was too impossible in his eyes.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2018 16:57:55 GMT
I just now realized, that Hawke who supported him (or supported but executed him), doesn't have a chance to express what s/he feels toward Anders. Coward decision (True, I don't know, I would be happier if they try it... I'm afraid, I should be rather grateful for it.).
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Post by Catilina on Sept 9, 2018 14:22:31 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Sept 9, 2018 23:07:40 GMT
Lake Calenhad – No swimming!
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Post by davesin on Sept 10, 2018 5:22:28 GMT
So Templars weren't after Anders because he escaped the Circle seven times, but for ignoring a warning sign? What a badass! Even the Warden doesn't dare to cross this sign.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 10, 2018 11:27:14 GMT
Do you guys think the writers could've done more with Anders?
I mean, his entire character in DA2 is just magesmagesmagesmagesmages. It wouldn't hurt to have him show interest in other things too.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by davesin on Sept 10, 2018 12:00:23 GMT
Well, he's very mage-centred because Justice took his believes about mage rights and turned them up to eleven (it's also the only kind of opression or politics he ever cared about - that's probably why Anders keep dismissing or ignoring problems of Kirkwall's City Elves, although it's something pre-DA2 Justice would see as an injustice). The spirit also pretty much turned off all of the Anders' hedonism (Justice often speaks about others giving themself to sloth and it sees drinking and having sex as a distraction. Anders actually comments on that at least once). The only thing Justice didn't override was his love for cats... but I'm not sure how to turn that into something interesting.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2018 16:24:32 GMT
Do you guys think the writers could've done more with Anders? I mean, his entire character in DA2 is just magesmagesmagesmagesmages. It wouldn't hurt to have him show interest in other things too. He interests toward the poor people/refugees in the Darktown and Hawke. Everyone in DA2 has only one aim, in fact, only Anders who cares about people, who aren't "his problem".
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2018 16:38:17 GMT
Well, he's very mage-centred because Justice took his believes about mage rights and turned them up to eleven (it's also the only kind of opression or politics he ever cared about - that's probably why Anders keep dismissing or ignoring problems of Kirkwall's City Elves, although it's something pre-DA2 Justice would see as an injustice). The spirit also pretty much turned off all of the Anders' hedonism (Justice often speaks about others giving themself to sloth and it sees drinking and having sex as a distraction. Anders actually comments on that at least once). The only thing Justice didn't override was his love for cats... but I'm not sure how to turn that into something interesting. Justice doesn't let him be drunk, but he able to drinking. Varric mentions, he paid beer to him. Justice doesn't let him to be selfish and hedonist, yes. But doesn't prevent his relationship with Hawke, even if this dangerous to both of them (rivalry). I rather think, while Justice consider it a distraction, he's rather a part of this "obsession" with Hawke. Don't forget his personal quest in Awakening It was not about to fix some injustice, it was about Kristoff and his wife, because he wanted to understand that feeling. He know, this is dangerous, this can be a weakness, jeopardizes their concentration of the purpose, and a desire. Buthe doesn't prevent that. Nor in the Act3.
And think about it: Merrill shows anyinterest toward the mages, when Anders ask her? Not. Fenris shows any interest toward the city elves when Merrill asks him? Not.
Everyone have his/her own world, only Anders who care about other thing, than "his people".
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2018 16:59:25 GMT
So Templars weren't after Anders because he escaped the Circle seven times, but for ignoring a warning sign? What a badass! Even the Warden doesn't dare to cross this sign. The Templars didn't dare to break the law. So: they bypassed the lake.
(And of course, it's badass! He was just 13!)
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Post by Iddy on Sept 10, 2018 17:22:02 GMT
Do you guys think the writers could've done more with Anders? I mean, his entire character in DA2 is just magesmagesmagesmagesmages. It wouldn't hurt to have him show interest in other things too. He interests toward the poor people/refugees in the Darktown and Hawke. Everyone in DA2 has only one aim, in fact, only Anders who cares about people, who aren't "his problem".
Maybe, but at least they do talk about things unrelated to their goal.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 10, 2018 17:36:49 GMT
He interests toward the poor people/refugees in the Darktown and Hawke. Everyone in DA2 has only one aim, in fact, only Anders who cares about people, who aren't "his problem". Maybe, but at least they do talk about things unrelated to their goal. In Awakening, he also spoke about the mages, constantly. It didn't change.
And he spoke about Ferelden, Deep Roads, cats, Darktown, Chantry/Andraste (and Sebastian's groin), Spirits/Demons, Qun, drink, sex, Hawke, Fenris, Merrill, blood magic, slavery, his adventures with the Wardens, etc. Bartrand, and fashion faux-passes etc.
Considering his position with Justice and Kirkwall, it is a very broad spectrum.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 12, 2018 1:33:04 GMT
@dustyelf This is the 89th page – nobody sure about it. Still good
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Post by Catilina on Sept 16, 2018 21:16:06 GMT
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Post by Catilina on Nov 15, 2018 11:09:59 GMT
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Nov 21, 2018 10:18:11 GMT
for all you Anders lovers I found it and thought it perfect for this thread
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Post by Iddy on Nov 22, 2018 18:32:00 GMT
I haven't finished my current pt, but I'm planning to play a diplomatic mage Hawke that becomes radicalized due to the cruelty witnessed in Kirkwall + Anders' influence.
I'd never played a Hawke that supports the Chantry bombing before, so I might as well do it this time.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 22, 2018 19:45:07 GMT
I haven't finished my current pt, but I'm planning to play a diplomatic mage Hawke that becomes radicalized due to the cruelty witnessed in Kirkwall + Anders' influence. I'd never played a Hawke that supports the Chantry bombing before, so I might as well do it this time. Let's try it. I think this is the happiest and the most satisfying end. What's the question? I think, this is a good arc, and rare. I thought about as well – If I would make a blue Hawke once again, I would start a similar one. I think most people who wants a developmental arc to Hawke, rather start Hawke as a pro-freedom person basically, who later thinks about that "perhaps the Chantry/Templars/Meredith or Sebastian/Fenris are right: the mages are dangerous and later again: depend on how much loves the thought of the Annulment, most of people can't accept, and protect the mages, but kill Anders – at least many PT I read about this.
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