Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 12, 2019 17:06:24 GMT
I gotta go with Iakus' read here. The 20,000 dreadnought figure is simply incoherent with what actually happens in ME3. When an extrapolation fails this hard, it needs to be dumped. Hey, Bioware could have gone with the initial assessment of "hundreds of them. Maybe thousands" But NOOOOOOOO they had to decide Sovereign was being literal with the whole "our numbers will blot the skies of every world" and run with hundreds OF thousands!
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Post by ahglock on Apr 12, 2019 18:34:10 GMT
I gotta go with Iakus' read here. The 20,000 dreadnought figure is simply incoherent with what actually happens in ME3. When an extrapolation fails this hard, it needs to be dumped. The numbers actually shown in ME3 are incoherent with what happens in ME3. The forces that attacked any planet would have overwhelmed the citadel in minutes. Drop in countless batarian husks and you control the relay network like your initial plan in less time than it takes to make dinner. That being said presumedly their are losses each cycle so probably not the full 20k. How they pulled off the first few harvests who knows.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 12, 2019 19:30:06 GMT
Well, that last part's easy. The timing of a harvest is entirely at the Reapers' discretion. They don't have to wait until the current races have built dozens of dreadnoughts.
Obviously that means that the 50,000 year period is an average rather than a set timer, but doing it by the clock was stupid anyway.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 12, 2019 19:41:04 GMT
I gotta go with Iakus' read here. The 20,000 dreadnought figure is simply incoherent with what actually happens in ME3. When an extrapolation fails this hard, it needs to be dumped. The numbers actually shown in ME3 are incoherent with what happens in ME3. The forces that attacked any planet would have overwhelmed the citadel in minutes. Drop in countless batarian husks and you control the relay network like your initial plan in less time than it takes to make dinner. That being said presumedly their are losses each cycle so probably not the full 20k. How they pulled off the first few harvests who knows. with 20k dreadnoughts and perhaps 100k+ destroyers etc, they could have sent a thousand Reapers to secure the Citadel and each homeworld and still have plenty left to curb-stomp the rest of the galaxy. Hell, they could have pulled a Shaggy and do that with only 10% of that power...
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Post by themikefest on Apr 12, 2019 19:57:34 GMT
I believe the reapers would win even with only 50 capital ships and having destroyer ships
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Post by ahglock on Apr 12, 2019 20:05:08 GMT
The numbers actually shown in ME3 are incoherent with what happens in ME3. The forces that attacked any planet would have overwhelmed the citadel in minutes. Drop in countless batarian husks and you control the relay network like your initial plan in less time than it takes to make dinner. That being said presumedly their are losses each cycle so probably not the full 20k. How they pulled off the first few harvests who knows. with 20k dreadnoughts and perhaps 100k+ destroyers etc, they could have sent a thousand Reapers to secure the Citadel and each homeworld and still have plenty left to curb-stomp the rest of the galaxy. Hell, though could have pulled a Shaggy and do that with only 10% of that power... It’s like the krogan birthrate. Writers bad at math throw out numbers because they sound big without processing what the fuck it actually means.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 12, 2019 20:29:11 GMT
I believe the reapers would win even with only 50 capital ships and having destroyer ships maybe, but the galaxy could have made a fight of it. Would have been a less ridiculous story that there's be the time and resources to try for a last-ditch miracle.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 12, 2019 20:43:59 GMT
I believe the reapers would win even with only 50 capital ships and having destroyer ships maybe, but the galaxy could have made a fight of it. Would have been a less ridiculous story that there's be the time and resources to try for a last-ditch miracle. The galaxy would only make it a fight of it if the reapers were to spread themselves all over the galaxy.
I will assume that 5 destroyers are built each cycle. With 50 capital ships, there will be 250 destroyers. Also have to include processing and transport ships. They head to Sol. A few ships are left at the relay to prevent anyone from trying to use it. The rest head to Earth. They take out any military base, and any ships that are flying above earth. From there, start the harvest. After x amount of time, they pack up and head for the next system and repeat.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 13, 2019 0:56:44 GMT
maybe, but the galaxy could have made a fight of it. Would have been a less ridiculous story that there's be the time and resources to try for a last-ditch miracle. The galaxy would only make it a fight of it if the reapers were to spread themselves all over the galaxy.
I will assume that 5 destroyers are built each cycle. With 50 capital ships, there will be 250 destroyers. Also have to include processing and transport ships. They head to Sol. A few ships are left at the relay to prevent anyone from trying to use it. The rest head to Earth. They take out any military base, and any ships that are flying above earth. From there, start the harvest. After x amount of time, they pack up and head for the next system and repeat.
Yeah those numbers didn't add up. I think they should have gone with the low thousands or high hundreds for the total numbers including the troop transports and processing plants
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Post by Iakus on Apr 13, 2019 1:15:03 GMT
maybe, but the galaxy could have made a fight of it. Would have been a less ridiculous story that there's be the time and resources to try for a last-ditch miracle. The galaxy would only make it a fight of it if the reapers were to spread themselves all over the galaxy.
I will assume that 5 destroyers are built each cycle. With 50 capital ships, there will be 250 destroyers. Also have to include processing and transport ships. They head to Sol. A few ships are left at the relay to prevent anyone from trying to use it. The rest head to Earth. They take out any military base, and any ships that are flying above earth. From there, start the harvest. After x amount of time, they pack up and head for the next system and repeat.
Well, not immediately blitzing the Citadel, taking it over, and shutting down the relay network like they've done EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS HARVEST is a separate issue. But assuming they had to square off against a united galaxy, it would still be more of a fight.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 13, 2019 5:03:34 GMT
with 20k dreadnoughts and perhaps 100k+ destroyers etc, they could have sent a thousand Reapers to secure the Citadel and each homeworld and still have plenty left to curb-stomp the rest of the galaxy. It actually doesn't even make sense that the Reapers don't control the relay system in its entirely. That would allow only them to use the relays and confine ships to their current system. Easy prey and the Reapers could harvest at their leisure.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 13, 2019 11:43:51 GMT
The galaxy would only make it a fight of it if the reapers were to spread themselves all over the galaxy.
I will assume that 5 destroyers are built each cycle. With 50 capital ships, there will be 250 destroyers. Also have to include processing and transport ships. They head to Sol. A few ships are left at the relay to prevent anyone from trying to use it. The rest head to Earth. They take out any military base, and any ships that are flying above earth. From there, start the harvest. After x amount of time, they pack up and head for the next system and repeat.
Well, not immediately blitzing the Citadel, taking it over, and shutting down the relay network like they've done EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS HARVEST is a separate issue. But assuming they had to square off against a united galaxy, it would still be more of a fight. Someone counted about 100 reapers above Earth. If the player gets all the assets possible, how much of a fight would those fleets have against 100 reapers?
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Post by Iakus on Apr 13, 2019 14:48:17 GMT
Well, not immediately blitzing the Citadel, taking it over, and shutting down the relay network like they've done EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS HARVEST is a separate issue. But assuming they had to square off against a united galaxy, it would still be more of a fight. Someone counted about 100 reapers above Earth. If the player gets all the assets possible, how much of a fight would those fleets have against 100 reapers? Straight up toe to toe fight? Reapers win, no question. But they'd take heavier losses than if it was the galaxy vs 20000+ Reapers. With those numbers, the Reapers shouldn't lose a single ship, the fighting would be over before it starts!
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Post by Iakus on Apr 13, 2019 15:05:04 GMT
On a somewhat related note, a series I've started reading would be interesting to adapt into an Andromeda/Refuse ending outcome, should the AI return to Earth: Ember War Saga
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Post by themikefest on Apr 13, 2019 15:14:29 GMT
Someone counted about 100 reapers above Earth. If the player gets all the assets possible, how much of a fight would those fleets have against 100 reapers? Straight up toe to toe fight? Reapers win, no question. But they'd take heavier losses than if it was the galaxy vs 20000+ Reapers. With those numbers, the Reapers shouldn't lose a single ship, the fighting would be over before it starts! No kidding the reapers would win, just as they would win in my scenario taking little to no losses
As far as heavier losses against 20,000. I would say the reapers would take a number of losses depending on who is leading the fleets and how they go about attacking the reapers. Of course the fleets would eventually be wiped out.
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Post by quole on May 26, 2019 1:01:41 GMT
Anything but a prequel. Honestly I say just go with the destroy ending as the canon ending. The green ending doesn't make any sense and would change waaaaaaaaay too much of the galaxy and all the races in it. The blue ending could be interesting but many people would see it as a betrayal as it went against what shepard was striving for the entire series. The red ending is the simplest, the one most commonly picked, it stays true to shepard's intentions throughout the series, it means that shepard surviving afterwards and living with his LI can actually be canon, etc. It would make most people happy in a scenario where it is impossible to make everyone happy. Personally I would be fine with a sequel to Andromeda where your choices carry over but I have a feeling that's not going to happen. The galaxy would only make it a fight of it if the reapers were to spread themselves all over the galaxy.
I will assume that 5 destroyers are built each cycle. With 50 capital ships, there will be 250 destroyers. Also have to include processing and transport ships. They head to Sol. A few ships are left at the relay to prevent anyone from trying to use it. The rest head to Earth. They take out any military base, and any ships that are flying above earth. From there, start the harvest. After x amount of time, they pack up and head for the next system and repeat.
Well, not immediately blitzing the Citadel, taking it over, and shutting down the relay network like they've done EVERY SINGLE PREVIOUS HARVEST is a separate issue.But assuming they had to square off against a united galaxy, it would still be more of a fight. Yep never understood that. I get that the reapers had to fight their way TO the citadel this time, but still why wasn't that their top priority? Screw attacking random planets simultaneously. Just go straight for the citadel and isolate everyone like they always did before. It was like no one at Bioware played Mass Effect 1.
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Post by Hrulj on May 27, 2019 15:12:49 GMT
Destroy is the only viable ending that allows the galaxy some freedom and self made conflict. The rest is a pipedream
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Post by gkonone on Jun 28, 2019 22:29:18 GMT
Any sequel to the ot will cause issues. Fan A:" My choice wasn't recognized! Screw you!" Fan B: My choice was recognized in a shitty way! Screw you!" Fan C: "why didnt you do *insert better idea than devs here* instead? Screw you! Fan D: "Just want I wanted." The last one being the minority. I don't think it matters what Fan A through D, or Z for that matter, think. There is no such thing as a Fan, unless they really screw up, as they did with ME3's ending, then you'll get a lot of fans up in arms. At this point it matters what BW think will do well considering the success of the OT, based on the biggest common denominator as far as player preferences go, and ultimately what direction they want to take and its presentation. They have their metrics, they know which version of Shepard was played most, who was romanced most, what ending was chosen the most, etc. They should also be willing to get of their artistical high horse and accept that a trilogy isn't always the end of it. It will come down to how well it's written, how believable and acceptable whichever ending is they'd consider canon. I'm positive they can pull it off, they just have to be willing to take a calculated risk. The destroy ending would make the most sense considering the previous events and the overall philosophy of the series; the more work and effort you put in as Shepard, the better the outcome, generally speaking.
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Post by operationathena on Jun 29, 2019 21:38:33 GMT
I think they're going to need to do their own thing, you can mention Shepard and reference the events of OT but not any of the choices made. I think setting Andromeda where and when they did was smart. Maybe do another standalone game, only this time hammer down on the feedback and the meh reception Andromeda got and focus on gameplay and story. Another perk of doing another standaline I'd love to see utilized is seeing your choices spiderweb out without worrying about a future game to import them to.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 3, 2019 16:03:30 GMT
Any sequel to the ot will cause issues. Fan A:" My choice wasn't recognized! Screw you!" Fan B: My choice was recognized in a shitty way! Screw you!" Fan C: "why didnt you do *insert better idea than devs here* instead? Screw you! Fan D: "Just want I wanted." The last one being the minority. I don't think it matters what Fan A through D, or Z for that matter, think. There is no such thing as a Fan, unless they really screw up, as they did with ME3's ending, then you'll get a lot of fans up in arms. At this point it matters what BW think will do well considering the success of the OT, based on the biggest common denominator as far as player preferences go, and ultimately what direction they want to take and its presentation. They have their metrics, they know which version of Shepard was played most, who was romanced most, what ending was chosen the most, etc. They should also be willing to get of their artistical high horse and accept that a trilogy isn't always the end of it. It will come down to how well it's written, how believable and acceptable whichever ending is they'd consider canon. I'm positive they can pull it off, they just have to be willing to take a calculated risk. The destroy ending would make the most sense considering the previous events and the overall philosophy of the series; the more work and effort you put in as Shepard, the better the outcome, generally speaking. One thing that they absolutely, positively, definitely cannot do, is sideline the ME2 crew yet again, if they go back to OT.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 17:05:07 GMT
I don't think it matters what Fan A through D, or Z for that matter, think. There is no such thing as a Fan, unless they really screw up, as they did with ME3's ending, then you'll get a lot of fans up in arms. At this point it matters what BW think will do well considering the success of the OT, based on the biggest common denominator as far as player preferences go, and ultimately what direction they want to take and its presentation. They have their metrics, they know which version of Shepard was played most, who was romanced most, what ending was chosen the most, etc. They should also be willing to get of their artistical high horse and accept that a trilogy isn't always the end of it. It will come down to how well it's written, how believable and acceptable whichever ending is they'd consider canon. I'm positive they can pull it off, they just have to be willing to take a calculated risk. The destroy ending would make the most sense considering the previous events and the overall philosophy of the series; the more work and effort you put in as Shepard, the better the outcome, generally speaking. One thing that they absolutely, positively, definitely cannot do, is sideline the ME2 crew yet again, if they go back to OT. Oh yes, they can and they might because any or all of them could be dead at the end of ME2. They shouldn't be forced into saying canon is the perfect run... defeats the challenge of ME2 being a "suicide mission" and undermines any philosophy that says some sacrifices and losses may be are necessary when the stakes are that high against an enemy that strong. Not allowing Bioware to create some losses out of the OT would make a farce of it more than ME:A happy go lucky Ryder's attitude ever did.
Bringing back both Kaidan and Ashley in ME3 or in a sequel to ME3 would have the same effect... making a farce of that decision and taking away all seriousness from the Trilogy. Why would I go back to play ME1 and have that choice make any impact when I know Bioware is just going to undo it all and bring everyone back to life in the next sequel?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 3, 2019 17:09:53 GMT
@upagain Let's not have this conversation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 17:14:49 GMT
@upagain Let's not have this conversation. Fine. I'll still post what I please. Just don't respond.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 3, 2019 17:22:10 GMT
@upagain Let's not have this conversation. Fine. I'll still post what I please. Just don't respond. What the ... I'm saying I don't want to go back to the same conversation we had last time. You say what you want them to do, I say what I think they should do to get a more successful title, you'll insult Taoism or Buddhism this time, knowing you probably both, I will point it out and then a mod will delete the posts and you'll put me back on your ignore list. What's the point? And on top of that, you can't tell me what to do, you're not my dad.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jul 3, 2019 18:00:03 GMT
I don't think it matters what Fan A through D, or Z for that matter, think. There is no such thing as a Fan, unless they really screw up, as they did with ME3's ending, then you'll get a lot of fans up in arms. At this point it matters what BW think will do well considering the success of the OT, based on the biggest common denominator as far as player preferences go, and ultimately what direction they want to take and its presentation. They have their metrics, they know which version of Shepard was played most, who was romanced most, what ending was chosen the most, etc. They should also be willing to get of their artistical high horse and accept that a trilogy isn't always the end of it. It will come down to how well it's written, how believable and acceptable whichever ending is they'd consider canon. I'm positive they can pull it off, they just have to be willing to take a calculated risk. The destroy ending would make the most sense considering the previous events and the overall philosophy of the series; the more work and effort you put in as Shepard, the better the outcome, generally speaking. One thing that they absolutely, positively, definitely cannot do, is sideline the ME2 crew yet again, if they go back to OT. I'm not really sure what BioWare could have done to better integrate the ME2 cast into the following game. At the most, I guess they could've gotten more subplots. Trouble is, there's only so much content you can gate off if these characters don't exist. I think overall ME3 did a more than serviceable job considering how you have about a dozen characters to account for. There was no way they could return as shipmates, because the possibility of the bare minimum surviving companion, which could be virtually anyone, leaves you with the necessity for a fixed roster to fill enough spots to compose a squad that can cover most basics in terms of abilities, not to mention actual character content.
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