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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 21:44:51 GMT
in ME, there were also quite a few instances where the wheel descriptions were misleading or not clear enough. In a way, Mass Effect also averted the symbols by placing the stances always on the same position on the wheel. Well, the stances were indeed placed on the same position on the wheel, but they were usually also generally better descriptive of the good/neutral/bad tone. Which is why, after a while, you realized where each dialogue option would be, regardless of dialogue. You could surmise it. Whereas with Inquisition you have a much larger range in tones, but it kind of feels like a rock paper scissor sort of way to interact, which I wasn't particularly fond of, especially when you had no idea which option was which. It felt more like a mini-game and less of a character building/exploring aspect. But, you know, doesn't make me right, just an opinion here.
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Post by AnDromedary on May 17, 2019 22:08:37 GMT
Hmmm, I didn't really feel that way about the DA:I System. To me, it was pretty comparable to ME, just that you had the wider range, which I liked.
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Post by alanc9 on May 17, 2019 23:00:44 GMT
Could you source that? After ME2's awful system, my impression was that ME3's change was substantially better-received. I'm referring to Andromeda's system which, if I recall, was criticized for being worse than the P/R system. Am I mistaken? I could be mistaken on that one. I don't remember ME3's P/R implementation being that significantly different to ME2's, let alone worse and, any way, that wasn't part of ME3's problems people seem to have such a grudge with. Some might, but it's a lot less important. Ok. I thought you were talking about ME3 because you mentioned Reputation, which is a thing in ME3, not ME:A. And ME3's system was better-received than ME2's, so naturally it wasn't said to be one of the problems with ME3. I've noticed that you have a tendency to talk about things that you don't actually remember very well. Here's how the persuasion systems worked in the various games. ME1 was primarily skill-based. Assigning more points to Charm or Intimidate would unlock more persuasion options -- either you had enough points in the skill to select a dialogue option or you did not. The effect of Paragon and Renegade scores was to unlock more potential ranks in Charm and Intimidate and to grant a few ranks for free, up to four of the possible 12. In practice the unlocks didn't restrict the player too often, since it wasn't common for a player to sink points into Charm and then not use Charm much. ME2 threw out the skills and became wholly Paragon/Renegade based. The difficulty of a persuasion check was determined by what percentage of the total paragon/renegade options that character had selected up until that moment in the game; the level 4 class power evolutions let characters accumulate more P or R points for particular decisions, but didn't otherwise change the mechanics.. A difficult check might require a character to have picked over 75% of the Paragon or Renegade options in order to pass the check. Obviously, since Paragon and Renegade options are mutually exclusive, this meant that characters who were played as wholly either P or R were the most persuasive. In effect, players were rewarded for outsourcing their decision-making to the paragon/renegade meter. ME3 kept ME2's system, but bolted Reputation on top of it. Completing missions granted Reputation points, which were effectively bonus points for either P or R. This effectively turned persuasion into a completeness check. Not a great design, but it annoyed players less to be able to pass just about all checks than to fail checks if they refused to jump through the P hoop or the R hoop. MEA has no persuasion system as such . Every dialogue option is available all the time. Some options work better than others, but it's all case-by-case. There's no such thing as a Ryder who's more persuasive in herself than any other Ryder.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 2:07:47 GMT
... and doing the "open-world thing" was pandering to that same minority of vocal fans who began pressuring them to make their games comparable to TW3. .. so SirSourpuss , I'm not just referring to the EC when I talk about pandering to that vocal minority of fans. The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... fans who often don't really think out fully what they're asking for... and have an established track record of "backlashing" against those same ideas when they see them realized by Bioware but not in exactly the same way and with the same impacts they envisioned. The same is true for Andromeda's dialogue system... which was changed to try to address the long-criticized shortcomings in the P/R system in ME2. ME3's dialogue system was also changed to try to address those same issues identified by the fans in ME2. Neither change satisfied those same fans. 1) Bioware had been trying to copy/paste from Skyrim for years. Recall DAI where they outright admitted it? Also don't forget these worlds were supposed to be procedural at first. That's not TW3 either. That's copying from No Man's Sky. And that also turned out to be a train wreck. 2) I don't recall lighter tone being complained about as much as the tone selection for Ryder, which allows very little in the way of personality variation. Everything was simply a variation of "wry action hero" DAI did it way better. *more nonsense trashing people who dare disagree with him*3) Dialogue system. Yeah, it sucks. Different phrases but all ultimately feel pretty much the same. Again, DAI did it MUCH better, and without a P/R system either. Just because the system was changed doesn't mean it was changed WELL. There were numerous requests before ME:A's release for quests to be designed like TW3 and for the game to be less linear than ME3 and more open like TW3. Since ME:A, people here are now saying they want a more linear design.
People originally complained about the stringent P/R system causing them to fail checks. Later on, after ME3, people also complained about the dialogue system in ME3 based on the prevalence of autodialogue and feelings of a general lack of choice.
What I"m saying is that Bioware changed the systems in response to what the fans indicated they wanted, but they also made those changes in such ways that were not as precisely envisioned by the fans who requested them... leading those fans to continue complaining. If you think Bioware is going to write a sequel to ME3 to the exact specifications of the fans in order to avoid a backlash, you're dreaming. They will inevitably still want to write at least some of the the story themselves (as is their job) and they'll put in twists that the fans haven't envisioned... and chances are those fans will still wind up dissatisfied and complain about those... because what Bioware does won't match what they envisioned.
You can disagree with me all you want. I don't care if you dare to disagree with me or not. The past happened. You can go back and read it if you want. It's a matter of public record. I'm placing my bets on the same group continuing to complain no matter what course of action Bioware ultimately decides to take. We'll see who's right when that time comes.
I'm the one here actually not trying to convince Bioware to do anything to appease me. I've continually said they should follow their own vision. I'm not threatening them with a backlash. They have nothing to fear from me. If there's going to be a backlash, it's going to come from the same group of fans who have backlashed before... for 7 years now. If they do an ME3 sequel, I'll decide for myself whether or not the game interests me... buy it or not. If I buy it, I'll play it and then decide if I like it or not... same as I did with Andromeda. I do have a preference, and that is I would prefer a continuation of Andromeda and no canon ending for ME3... but I'm not going to "backlash" in either case... and I'm willing to bet that "most" fans will not be inclined to backlash in either case and a vocal minority will still backlash unless Bioware somehow does the impossible and give them the exact story and game they've already written in each of their own minds. Since it regards the future, my crystal ball is as good as yours.
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Post by river82 on May 18, 2019 5:26:45 GMT
I like the old days when people voted with their wallet.
I may be critical of Anthem, Andromeda, Inquisition … and DA:2, but that's just me being a consumer. Consumers bitch about products all the time, from cleaning products that won't work to plasma TVs that burn incriminating images of porn movies onto the screen whenever it gets paused.
Targeting people on twitter or other things, organising crusades ... I'm not up for that though. That's going too far. Bitching about the lack of RPGness and plot in ME:2? Sure, I'm up for that.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on May 18, 2019 6:13:07 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on May 18, 2019 7:25:38 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. I certainly wouldn’t be happy with such a Bobby Ewing approach of wiping everything shep did and everyone shep met
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2019 8:04:18 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. ![](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/21905a81-f5e0-4a8a-9563-e09e1ceee83b/d5fgqjy-90eb78fc-9bd1-453b-8b5d-d7fd0f88e234.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIxOTA1YTgxLWY1ZTAtNGE4YS05NTYzLWUwOWUxY2VlZTgzYlwvZDVmZ3FqeS05MGViNzhmYy05YmQxLTQ1M2ItOGI1ZC1kN2ZkMGY4OGUyMzQucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.2_8OBGFaFL8fQBP7L4hc20CnxbY3Ey2w3y_Nk35E4hM)
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 18, 2019 8:24:05 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. Ah yes. Let's just make everything non-canon. I honestly think they can deconstruct or subvert the endings and move on from there. In fact there's an incredible source of conflict, besides the choice-outcome. The galaxy is in a newfound dark age. We have to figure out how to let space civilization work without gifts from our gods. Even Drew Karpyshyn commented on the ME3 ending saying he could see potential in a sequel. Also, to plant some seeds, here's one deconstruction of the Synthesis energy wave: I forgot to mention but I can now reveal: I have actually been to the future, and there I saw Mass Effect 5. using the incredibly futuristic tool called Copy & Paste I CTRL+C'd and CTRL+V'd a codex entry from that game and I'm now revealing it to the world of the past, in 2019. Here it is.
Codex -> Galactic History Pre-Dark-Age
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 18, 2019 9:40:53 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. There is this ancient Greek Mythos that people who are at death's door can see the future and prominent men often times sought their prophecies. What if everything since either the Prothean Beacon or Shepard's death in ME2 is a vision of the future and you can replay it again. More like a new game+ kind of deal where previous unwinnable situations now have a more positive outcome, only throughout the trilogy. Like you can preserve the Thorian, or you can save both Kaidan and Ashley in Virmire, you find a way for Samara to not kill Morinth, where Rila doesn't die in the Monastery, Thessia doesn't get glassed, Mordin survives, Legion doesn't crash etc. and the end is a little more rewarding. Imagine realizing that potential.
I have, in my head, this scene playing out, it's the beginning of ME2, as you get everyone on the ship in pods ready to escape, you put Liara in the final one and give her your prophecy: "Go to Mars, discover the Crucible, become the Shadow Broker, I will see you in two years. Remember." And then you get sucked out in space, just before her pod launches. And that goes back to what @upagain was saying that everyone has their own ideas of what ME should be and what it should do and of course not everyone is going to get their dreams, but some things, I believe, are personal. They will work for me, because only I am me. I have no expectation for other people to like what I like, I can't describe to you what feeling that scene evokes in me and therefore I can't tell you why it should work for you. If it does, I'm happy to have shared it with you, but it is something that exists for me, in my own head, where it is also unlikely it will do others any harm ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) .
Fuck, I didn't even romance Liara, past ME1.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 18, 2019 10:07:14 GMT
<abbr class="o-timestamp time" title="May 18, 2019 11:24:05 GMT 3" data-timestamp="1558167845000">May 18, 2019 11:24:05 GMT 3</abbr> Link"Guess"ski said: Ah yes. Let's just make everything non-canon. I honestly think they can deconstruct or subvert the endings and move on from there. In fact there's an incredible source of conflict, besides the choice-outcome. The galaxy is in a newfound dark age. We have to figure out how to let space civilization work without gifts from our gods. Even Drew Karpyshyn commented on the ME3 ending saying he could see potential in a sequel. Also, to plant some seeds, here's one deconstruction of the Synthesis energy wave: I forgot to mention but I can now reveal: I have actually been to the future, and there I saw Mass Effect 5. using the incredibly futuristic tool called Copy & Paste I CTRL+C'd and CTRL+V'd a codex entry from that game and I'm now revealing it to the world of the past, in 2019. Here it is.
Codex -> Galactic History Pre-Dark-Age
This could also work. In a grimdark way, but it could.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 18, 2019 11:52:20 GMT
Everything about the way ME3 ends feels unintentionally grimdark. It's why there needs to be another one. They likened the Reaper War thematically to World War II - that war did not just end like a flip switch and all was good. There's several sources of tension in a post-Reaper plotline no matter which ending you go from. The biggest issue is dealing with the ending choice, and I feel you can do so in a way similar to my little fanfic there. Don't outright ignore everything, don't make it seem like it didn't matter either but subvert our expectation on what it actually caused. Instead of the thing that changed the nature of everything, the endings could become more of a flavor to your game like the pre-military service history choices. At key points in the game it comes up but ultimately it doesn't become the future end-all-be-all, it's just the backdrop of the first chapter which you deal with and let it sit in the background.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on May 18, 2019 13:17:40 GMT
1) Bioware had been trying to copy/paste from Skyrim for years. Recall DAI where they outright admitted it? Also don't forget these worlds were supposed to be procedural at first. That's not TW3 either. That's copying from No Man's Sky. And that also turned out to be a train wreck. 2) I don't recall lighter tone being complained about as much as the tone selection for Ryder, which allows very little in the way of personality variation. Everything was simply a variation of "wry action hero" DAI did it way better. *more nonsense trashing people who dare disagree with him*3) Dialogue system. Yeah, it sucks. Different phrases but all ultimately feel pretty much the same. Again, DAI did it MUCH better, and without a P/R system either. Just because the system was changed doesn't mean it was changed WELL. There were numerous requests before ME:A's release for quests to be designed like TW3 and for the game to be less linear than ME3 and more open like TW3. Since ME:A, people here are now saying they want a more linear design. Citation needed And making dialogue choices in MEA simply four ways to say the same thing is "better" because...? So Bioware didn't really listen to their fans. GLad we agree on something. You're ranting again.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 18, 2019 13:49:57 GMT
And making dialogue choices in MEA simply four ways to say the same thing is "better" because...? I'll have to give it to MEA that I preferred its dialogue trees to ME3's. I like the design of Paragon and Renegade (and neutrals!!!) way more than the bland tone system in MEA but to me dialogue choice is about making the player feel like they are their characters, and the constant autodialogue in 3 caused any sense of ownership or self-identifying with Shepard to disappear for me.
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Post by themikefest on May 18, 2019 13:55:01 GMT
The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... Posters also said they don't want squadmates wearing long underwear, straps or have a face mask, yet Bioware has the asari wearing Barney's purple belly button armor. Was there any request to have the squadmates do stupid crap? Apparently Bioware thinks doing stupid crap is the in thing. I wonder what stupid crap will happen in a sequel. Who requested that the main character have an implant in his/her head and not be able to tell the thing to shutup? If you think Bioware is going to write a sequel to ME3 to the exact specifications of the fans in order to avoid a backlash, you're dreaming. I don't believe anyone has said they wanted their suggestion to be exact. And I'm placing bets that you will continue to moan and groan about that same group, whoever they are, no matter what they do or say. Has anyone said they want Bioware to appease them? Threats? From who? The ones who won't buy their game if they do this, that and the other thing? Or they won't buy the game because they did do this, that and the other thing? Maybe a bit of both. Maybe they will threaten them by sending cupcakes. I have a preference too. Have Shepard return in ME4 and Ryder doesn't return for a sequel in Andromeda, if there's to be another game after MEA. Is the vocal minority the same as the same group you speak of? When you say same group, are you referring to youtubers or forumites, or both?
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Post by emissaryoflies on May 18, 2019 14:37:39 GMT
I want to see what happens with Dragon Age first.
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tatann
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Post by tatann on May 18, 2019 15:18:20 GMT
I want to see what happens with Dragon Age first. Open world, GaaS, fetch quests, Frostbite (bugs), bad reviews, Bioware blaming players
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on May 18, 2019 15:21:28 GMT
Everything about the way ME3 ends feels unintentionally grimdark. It's why there needs to be another one. They likened the Reaper War thematically to World War II - that war did not just end like a flip switch and all was good. There's several sources of tension in a post-Reaper plotline no matter which ending you go from. The biggest issue is dealing with the ending choice, and I feel you can do so in a way similar to my little fanfic there. Don't outright ignore everything, don't make it seem like it didn't matter either but subvert our expectation on what it actually caused. Instead of the thing that changed the nature of everything, the endings could become more of a flavor to your game like the pre-military service history choices. At key points in the game it comes up but ultimately it doesn't become the future end-all-be-all, it's just the backdrop of the first chapter which you deal with and let it sit in the background. Think smashing the endings together into one flavor of horrible meaninglessness is even worse than the pretty awful notion of them picking a canon ending.
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Post by Hrungr on May 18, 2019 15:35:11 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. I certainly wouldn’t be happy with such a Bobby Ewing approach of wiping everything shep did and everyone shep met No, I get that. If they want to go back to Shepard, I have never seen anyone come up with a good way to handle it. We're all just musing over what might be the... least worst way to handle it, short of a full reboot of the franchise.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 15:43:50 GMT
The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... Posters also said they don't want squadmates wearing long underwear, straps or have a face mask, yet Bioware has the asari wearing Barney's purple belly button armor. Was there any request to have the squadmates do stupid crap? Apparently Bioware thinks doing stupid crap is the in thing. I wonder what stupid crap will happen in a sequel. Who requested that the main character have an implant in his/her head and not be able to tell the thing to shutup? If you think Bioware is going to write a sequel to ME3 to the exact specifications of the fans in order to avoid a backlash, you're dreaming. I don't believe anyone has said they wanted their suggestion to be exact. And I'm placing bets that you will continue to moan and groan about that same group, whoever they are, no matter what they do or say. Has anyone said they want Bioware to appease them? Threats? From who? The ones who won't buy their game if they do this, that and the other thing? Or they won't buy the game because they did do this, that and the other thing? Maybe a bit of both. Maybe they will threaten them by sending cupcakes. I have a preference too. Have Shepard return in ME4 and Ryder doesn't return for a sequel in Andromeda, if there's to be another game after MEA. Is the vocal minority the same as the same group you speak of? When you say same group, are you referring to youtubers or forumites, or both? Which proves my point - Bioware is damned it they do try to respond to the fans because whatever they do doesn't match what the fans want... and they're damned if they just do their own thing because then the fans rag on them for ignoring them. We'll see what happens, but I'm willing to bet that even if Bioware writes a sequel to ME3 and doesn't go ahead with a sequel for ME;A, the same fans will "backlash" and STILL not be happy with the result. They've been complaining about various decisions Biwoare has made whether or not they've been attempts to "pander" to fan requests or not for at least seven years now... and I'm betting they aren't going to stop... ever. I don't think it's improving the games any... it's making them worse because it's sucking the creative energy out of the devs.
We'll see what happens first whether they produce a ME3 sequel or not and, if they do, whether or not you'll be happy with it... and why. Meanwhile, I still don't think "fear" of a backlash should be their deciding factor. They should decide to do what they WANT to do. "Most" fans won't backlash if they produce an ME:A sequel just the same as if they produce an ME3 sequel. "Most" fans will either buy the game or not, play it or not, and remain quiet about it either way.... just as "most" fans don't participate here or in any other forum on the internet nor to they tweet Bioware, etc.
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Post by Hrungr on May 18, 2019 15:45:00 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. ![](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/21905a81-f5e0-4a8a-9563-e09e1ceee83b/d5fgqjy-90eb78fc-9bd1-453b-8b5d-d7fd0f88e234.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIxOTA1YTgxLWY1ZTAtNGE4YS05NTYzLWUwOWUxY2VlZTgzYlwvZDVmZ3FqeS05MGViNzhmYy05YmQxLTQ1M2ItOGI1ZC1kN2ZkMGY4OGUyMzQucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.2_8OBGFaFL8fQBP7L4hc20CnxbY3Ey2w3y_Nk35E4hM)
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Post by Hrungr on May 18, 2019 16:02:22 GMT
Ah yes. Let's just make everything non-canon. I honestly think they can deconstruct or subvert the endings and move on from there. In fact there's an incredible source of conflict, besides the choice-outcome. The galaxy is in a newfound dark age. We have to figure out how to let space civilization work without gifts from our gods. Even Drew Karpyshyn commented on the ME3 ending saying he could see potential in a sequel. Again, I don't expect any consensus for what might be the "least worst" way to move forward (if they decide to go back to Shepard). Even beyond the ~4 endings, BW left the fates of entire species in our hands, and I think there's just too many important variables to move forward from.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 18, 2019 16:03:36 GMT
Everything about the way ME3 ends feels unintentionally grimdark. It's why there needs to be another one. They likened the Reaper War thematically to World War II - that war did not just end like a flip switch and all was good. There's several sources of tension in a post-Reaper plotline no matter which ending you go from. The biggest issue is dealing with the ending choice, and I feel you can do so in a way similar to my little fanfic there. Don't outright ignore everything, don't make it seem like it didn't matter either but subvert our expectation on what it actually caused. Instead of the thing that changed the nature of everything, the endings could become more of a flavor to your game like the pre-military service history choices. At key points in the game it comes up but ultimately it doesn't become the future end-all-be-all, it's just the backdrop of the first chapter which you deal with and let it sit in the background. Think smashing the endings together into one flavor of horrible meaninglessness is even worse than the pretty awful notion of them picking a canon ending. It's not one flavor, it's 3 flavors, and it's going to be brought up now and again but the impact of the war itself is bigger than the impact of 3 endings that already had zero emotional impact next to anything else in ME3. I just gave an example of what post-Synthesis could be like. Then Control and Destroy would bring up different sub-stories in this sequel.
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Post by Iakus on May 18, 2019 16:32:21 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. ![](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/21905a81-f5e0-4a8a-9563-e09e1ceee83b/d5fgqjy-90eb78fc-9bd1-453b-8b5d-d7fd0f88e234.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIxOTA1YTgxLWY1ZTAtNGE4YS05NTYzLWUwOWUxY2VlZTgzYlwvZDVmZ3FqeS05MGViNzhmYy05YmQxLTQ1M2ItOGI1ZC1kN2ZkMGY4OGUyMzQucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.2_8OBGFaFL8fQBP7L4hc20CnxbY3Ey2w3y_Nk35E4hM) Still better than picking a canon ending.
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Post by Iakus on May 18, 2019 16:40:32 GMT
Since it would be very difficult to go forward from the original Trilogy given all the variable outcomes, I wonder if it might be... a more palatable idea to walk the game back to the beginning. ![](https://i.imgur.com/3JcX38N.png) Take the game right back to the moment Shepard interacts with the Prothean beacon in ME1. Everything from that point on in the original Trilogy was a simulation, allowing Shepard to work out a way to succeed against the Reapers. But Saren interacted with it as well, and with this knowledge is able to move to counter Shepard, taking the game in a different direction than the original trilogy. A this point I don't think I'd even want Shepard back. I'd say do a complete hard reboot of everything, and make Shepard a fictional character in the Mass Effect universe. Like Blasto.
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