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Post by clips7 on Jun 14, 2019 1:32:06 GMT
Nice exchange between Up and adromedary...and i agree with most of what you guys stated here. I will say what i have stated all along in that Andromeda wasn't a bad game, just a very mediorce ME game. Andromeda was also picking off "check boxes" as Andromedary stated, but they was also trying to have their cake eat it too....."hey lets create new characters but have them generically reflect characters from the MW....Vetra = female Garrus...Peebee = Liara.....Gill = Kaiden, Drack = Grunt or Wrex....Liam = uh...well hmmm...uh...sheeit i'll take Jacob over Liam any day....
What kett was doing to the Angarians was symbolic to what the collectors and Reapers was doing with races across the galaxy....Andromeda was playing it safe trying to repeat past themes with the illusion of a a fresh set of paint on it in trying to keep everybody happy....
There are still some mysteries to solved in Andromeda, but can you imagine Bioware announcing Andromeda 2 or something symbolizing a sequel to it?....Look at what is happening with Anthem right now right after the side=show that was Andromeda with it's initial release...Anthem fumbled out of the gate and still hasn't recovered yet and optics overall currently for Anthem is dismal...Anthem was their chance to shine to show them they still had that "it" factor after Andromeda and currently Anthem is a game that is currently in a mediocre state.
Sure Anthem can change, but public perception and confidence in Bioware has hit an all time low in terms of their ability to deliver a solid gaming experience....two stinkers in terms of Andromeda and currently Anthem and folks are already skeptic about the next Dragon Age....I think an Andromeda sequel is possible, but the writing has got to be better, characters more compelling and somehow marketing has got to convince the weary public that Bioware will deliver and enjoyable experience reflective of how popular and engaging the trilogy series was....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 2:08:09 GMT
Nice exchange between Up and adromedary...and i agree with most of what you guys stated here. I will say what i have stated all along in that Andromeda wasn't a bad game, just a very mediorce ME game. Andromeda was also picking off "check boxes" as Andromedary stated, but they was also trying to have their cake eat it too....."hey lets create new characters but have them generically reflect characters from the MW....Vetra = female Garrus...Peebee = Liara.....Gill = Kaiden, Drack = Grunt or Wrex....Liam = uh...well hmmm...uh...sheeit i'll take Jacob over Liam any day.... What kett was doing to the Angarians was symbolic to what the collectors and Reapers was ding with races across the galaxy....Andromeda was playing it safe trying to repeat past themes with the illusion of a a fresh set of paint on it in trying to keep everybody happy.... There are still some mysteries to solved in Andromeda, but can you imagine Bioware announcing Andromeda 2 or something symbolizing a sequel to it?....Look at what is happening with Anthem right now right after the side=show that was Andromeda with it's initial release...Anthem fumbled out of the gate and still hasn't recovered yet and optics overall currently for Anthem is dismal...Anthem was their chance to shine to show them they still had that "it" factor after Andromeda and currently Anthem is a game that is currently in a medioce shape. Sure Anthem can change, but public perception and confidence in Bioware has hit an all time low in terms of their ability to deliver a solid gaming experience....two stinkers in terms of Andromeda and currently Andromeda and folks are already skeptic about the next Dragon Age....I think an Andromeda sequel is possible, but the writing has got to be better, characters more compelling and somehow marketing has got to convince the weary public that Bioware will deliver and enjoyable experience reflective of how popular and engaging the trilogy series was.... Well... the skeptic me says that any discussion about a new ME game may be moot unless Bioware pulls a rabbit out of their hat with DA4. DA4, IMO, absolutely has to WOW its audiences. If they can do that, then I think they could absolutely go forward and announce a sequel to Andromeda and have more of the ME audience take a wait and see approach rather than revert to a public roasting of the game before it even releases. AT best, it's going to be touch and go for awhile at any rate. Until they know more about what sort of footing they're on as a company, I doulbt anything will be actually announced one way or another.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 14, 2019 11:13:35 GMT
When the first trailers come out, maybe. But when the game comes out and those established characters (now written by new writers) say three wrong words, the backlash is on again. But you have to have trust in the writers that they can write. Otherwise you are basically admitting that no matter what they write, it's going to be shit. In the OT characters you have a blueprint, you have guides, you have everything you need to write something that you know people like. If the writers cannot operate within these guidelines, then what are the chances that they will create something new, or improve upon something existing that got criticized negatively last time, with no guide on how to improve it? I'll go from slim to none. At least in my proposition, you get the benefit of the doubt for long enough, so that the devs working on the game don't have to look like the merry denizens of Dachau, as they do with Anthem, so they can at least work in some semblance of sanity and afforded the luxury to function as healthy, balanced human beings.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 14, 2019 11:41:35 GMT
Well... the skeptic me says that any discussion about a new ME game may be moot unless Bioware pulls a rabbit out of their hat with DA4. DA4, IMO, absolutely has to WOW its audiences. If they can do that, then I think they could absolutely go forward and announce a sequel to Andromeda and have more of the ME audience take a wait and see approach rather than revert to a public roasting of the game before it even releases. AT best, it's going to be touch and go for awhile at any rate. Until they know more about what sort of footing they're on as a company, I doulbt anything will be actually announced one way or another. I agree. If Dragon Age 4 is such a fantastic masterpiece that knocks everything out of the ballpark, a monumental success that leaves no room for anyone to argue that Bioware is back, then Bioware can do whatever they want. However, if it isn't, then what? You've spent somewhere between 2-4 years, depending when DA4 releases, to announce Andromeda 2? How will that go? Bad? To say the least, right? So what's your plan, if DA4 doesn't perform to unprecedented, universal acclaim, when you're already a fair way into Andromeda 2 development? Scrape the project and reboot it? You might as well cancel it altogether, at that point. Keep going full speed ahead, regardless? Well, I don't think that's going to go well. So what's the last option left?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 11:56:21 GMT
Well... the skeptic me says that any discussion about a new ME game may be moot unless Bioware pulls a rabbit out of their hat with DA4. DA4, IMO, absolutely has to WOW its audiences. If they can do that, then I think they could absolutely go forward and announce a sequel to Andromeda and have more of the ME audience take a wait and see approach rather than revert to a public roasting of the game before it even releases. AT best, it's going to be touch and go for awhile at any rate. Until they know more about what sort of footing they're on as a company, I doulbt anything will be actually announced one way or another. I agree. If Dragon Age 4 is such a fantastic masterpiece that knocks everything out of the ballpark, a monumental success that leaves no room for anyone to argue that Bioware is back, then Bioware can do whatever they want. However, if it isn't, then what? You've spent somewhere between 2-4 years, depending when DA4 releases, to announce Andromeda 2? How will that go? Bad? To say the least, right? So what's your plan, if DA4 doesn't perform to unprecedented, universal acclaim, when you're already a fair way into Andromeda 2 development? Scrape the project and reboot it? You might as well cancel it altogether, at that point. Keep going full speed ahead, regardless? Well, I don't think that's going to go well. So what's the last option left? If it isn't, I think it won't matter what they might want to do next. I don't think they'll get another chance from EA. It'll be a case of "three strikes." My hope is that they'll then sell Andromeda as a separate franchise from Mass Effect... and I think then whoever buys Andromeda will be able to announce a sequel with no difficulties and they'll be able to profit from it because they would have bought it for a song. That way, at least Andromeda might survive. Yet another company can pay a little more for the rights to do a ME remake/remaster (perhaps Bungie).
Normally, they would announce the next ME game before the next DA game is released. I don't think they will risk announcing anything until they know whether or not DA4 is a success and whether or not they still have a company to make the next ME game (despite the fact that they have probably already decided whether or not it will be a sequel of ME:A or MET). All we can expect is the occasional "rally the troops by sending out a crumb of hope" message from Casey.
Until they know the status of their company, we can drive each other crazy with rampant speculatiion... but that doesn't get anyone anywhere good. You're going to speculate your way and I mine and X his way, and Y her way, etc. The BEST things fans can do IF they want the company to survive is develop that "wait and see" attitude earlier rather than later... so that the company can focus on sorting their own house now.
Will the fans do back off and wait right now? I doubt it. They've gotten too used to doing the "Chicken Little" dance. What's happening right now is a mere taste of things to come... and that is a fan base already into the preparatory speculation that will ultimately crucify DA4... and the game hasn't been revealed hardly at all yet.
So, my bottom line here is that I really don't think Bioware has a snowball's chance of surviving long enough to make a next ME game... just like I thought all along that Andromeda didn't have a snowballs chance of being well received regardless of what sort of game it was and I don't think DA4 will be well received either regardless of what sort of game it turns out to be. It'll be well roasted long before it releases..
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 14, 2019 12:27:21 GMT
If it isn't, I think it won't matter what they might want to do next. I don't think they'll get another chance from EA. It'll be a case of "three strikes." That is also a very likely outcome. My hope is that DA4 is enough of a success to keep Bioware alive long enough for the next title. It just has to do well enough to get by, but that won't be enough to turn it all around. My hope is that they'll then sell Andromeda as a separate franchise from Mass Effect... and I think then whoever buys Andromeda will be able to announce a sequel with no difficulties and they'll be able to profit from it because they would have bought it for a song. I don't think you can viably sell Andromeda, without including the ME Universe as a whole. And EA is very well known for killing studio IPs and hoarding them. The chance of any Bioware IP making it out of there is regretfully low to non-existant. Normally, they would announce the next ME game before the next DA game is released. I don't think they will risk announcing anything until they know whether or not DA4 is a success and whether or not they still have a company to make the next ME game. Until then we can drive each other crazy with rampant speculatiion... but that doesn't get anyone anywhere good. The BEST things fans can do IF they want the company to survive is develop that "wait and see" attitude earlier rather than later... so that the company can focusing on sorting their own house now. What's happening though is already the preparatory speculation for the cruifiction of DA4... and the game hasn't been revealed hardly at all yet.
So, my bottom line here is that I really don't think Bioware has a snowball's chance of surviving long enough to make a next ME game... just like I thought all along that Andromeda didn't have a snowballs chance of being well received regardless of what sort of game it was and I don't think DA4 will be well received eitherr regardless of what sort of game it turns out to be. It'll be well roasted long before it releases.. That is very true, but also quite depressing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 12:33:41 GMT
If it isn't, I think it won't matter what they might want to do next. I don't think they'll get another chance from EA. It'll be a case of "three strikes." That is also a very likely outcome. My hope is that DA4 is enough of a success to keep Bioware alive long enough for the next title. It just has to do well enough to get by, but that won't be enough to turn it all around. My hope is that they'll then sell Andromeda as a separate franchise from Mass Effect... and I think then whoever buys Andromeda will be able to announce a sequel with no difficulties and they'll be able to profit from it because they would have bought it for a song. I don't think you can viably sell Andromeda, without including the ME Universe as a whole. And EA is very well known for killing studio IPs and hoarding them. The chance of any Bioware IP making it out of there is regretfully low to non-existant. Normally, they would announce the next ME game before the next DA game is released. I don't think they will risk announcing anything until they know whether or not DA4 is a success and whether or not they still have a company to make the next ME game. Until then we can drive each other crazy with rampant speculatiion... but that doesn't get anyone anywhere good. The BEST things fans can do IF they want the company to survive is develop that "wait and see" attitude earlier rather than later... so that the company can focusing on sorting their own house now. What's happening though is already the preparatory speculation for the cruifiction of DA4... and the game hasn't been revealed hardly at all yet.
So, my bottom line here is that I really don't think Bioware has a snowball's chance of surviving long enough to make a next ME game... just like I thought all along that Andromeda didn't have a snowballs chance of being well received regardless of what sort of game it was and I don't think DA4 will be well received eitherr regardless of what sort of game it turns out to be. It'll be well roasted long before it releases.. That is very true, but also quite depressing. ... and IF by some miracle Bioware survives a "mediocre" release of DA4... and then announces a MET sequel... fans will dance in the streets for all of 5 minutes... until they realize that none of them will be getting the game they envision that sequel to be... and the crash and burn will be even more brutal than if they announce an Andromeda.
DA4 cannot be just a "good enough" sort of success. There will be no such thing Just as the fan base were incapable of allowing ME:A to be anything but the MET sequel they wanted and are now incapable of admitting right now that ME:A opened to mixed, not unfavorable, reviews; and wasn't the unmitigated disaster that they keep needing to exaggerate it into being to support their falsehoods. Just like they are incapable of seeing that there are people who do like it and more people starting to play the game now who like it (now that the internet pressure is off and the game is cheap to acquire), DA fans are showing signs that they are incapable of allowing DA4 to be anything different from what they personally desire it to be. It's a recipe for failure and a bunch of un-objective pre-opening criticism... just like ME:A experienced.
I have every faith in Bioware being able to make a great game. I have absolutely no faith in the fan base accepting any game from Bioware well enough to save the company now. The fans will not just simply "wait and see." Patience is a virtue the gaming fan base just doesn't have.
Have I rattled off enough cliches yet?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 14, 2019 13:04:14 GMT
... and IF by some miracle Bioware survives a "mediocre" release of DA4... and then announces a MET sequel... fans will dance in the streets for all of 5 minutes... until they realize that none of them will be getting the game they envision that sequel to be... and the crash and burn will be even more brutal than if they announce an Andromeda. You can maintain the illusion, indefinitely, until release, with marketing, remember argumentum ad passiones. I can guarantee you, it will be better received than Andromeda 2, but if that crashes then I can say, with absolute certainty, that Andromeda would have crashed and burned even harder, before it even released. The sentiment would be so overwhelming, I see a high probability of the game being canceled and Bioware getting closed. It won't even be the first game that gets teased by Bioware and then canceled, under EA. It even had a playable demo
ust like they are incapable of seeing that there are people who do like it and more people starting to play the game now who like it (now that the internet pressure is off and the game is cheap to acquire) I'm not going to argue it's a good game for $15. It's a fantastic game for $15. It's a terrible game for $60 and up.
I have every faith in Bioware being able to make a great game. Well, mid to low 80s, is my expectation. I have absolutely no faith in the fan base accepting any game from Bioware well enough to save the company now. The fans will simply not "wait and see." I think there was a time for that, with Andromeda and Anthem, but those, on release at least, did not pan out that well. If Bioware had struck when the iron was still hot, this would have all gone away, but they failed to produce a successful substitute in the meantime and that is what they are paying for right now. And that's not a problem that's your fault, even the people that disliked these games aren't a problem, but they are making it a problem for EA's profits and that, in turn, lays the blame on Bioware. Under a different publisher, this would all have been water under the bridge.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 14, 2019 15:11:27 GMT
Nice exchange between Up and adromedary...and i agree with most of what you guys stated here. I will say what i have stated all along in that Andromeda wasn't a bad game, just a very mediorce ME game. Andromeda was also picking off "check boxes" as Andromedary stated, but they was also trying to have their cake eat it too....."hey lets create new characters but have them generically reflect characters from the MW....Vetra = female Garrus...Peebee = Liara.....Gill = Kaiden, Drack = Grunt or Wrex....Liam = uh...well hmmm...uh...sheeit i'll take Jacob over Liam any day.... What kett was doing to the Angarians was symbolic to what the collectors and Reapers was doing with races across the galaxy....Andromeda was playing it safe trying to repeat past themes with the illusion of a a fresh set of paint on it in trying to keep everybody happy.... There are still some mysteries to solved in Andromeda, but can you imagine Bioware announcing Andromeda 2 or something symbolizing a sequel to it?....Look at what is happening with Anthem right now right after the side=show that was Andromeda with it's initial release...Anthem fumbled out of the gate and still hasn't recovered yet and optics overall currently for Anthem is dismal...Anthem was their chance to shine to show them they still had that "it" factor after Andromeda and currently Anthem is a game that is currently in a mediocre state. Sure Anthem can change, but public perception and confidence in Bioware has hit an all time low in terms of their ability to deliver a solid gaming experience....two stinkers in terms of Andromeda and currently Anthem and folks are already skeptic about the next Dragon Age....I think an Andromeda sequel is possible, but the writing has got to be better, characters more compelling and somehow marketing has got to convince the weary public that Bioware will deliver and enjoyable experience reflective of how popular and engaging the trilogy series was.... Yea, at this point. a new ME would be a fairly tough sell no matter what, I think. IMO, they should not announce it at all for a while. If I were them, I'd concentrate on DA4 for the moment and make sure this becomes a good game. At least the DA frnachise did not have any release yet that was broadly viewed as a failure (Inquisition still had a pretty good reputation and the DLCs were widely acknowladged to be very good as far as I can tell). The DA4 Teaser at the end of last year also was greeted with quite some curiosity as far as I saw. So that's where BW can gain some ground again. If they can manage to put out a decent DA4 that people like and thus have restored some of their reputation, then I think would be a good time to announce a new ME (doesn't mean they can't start working on it before). And if the DA4 release does go well, I do think they have the freedom to even take a bit of a chance with it (in terms of marketing. Of course, if they mess up the next DA, I believe they are pretty much done for. If the next DA is decent but the next ME is not, than I don't see a real future for the ME franchise. That's kinda my assessment of their current situation. But you have to have trust in the writers that they can write. Otherwise you are basically admitting that no matter what they write, it's going to be shit. In the OT characters you have a blueprint, you have guides, you have everything you need to write something that you know people like. If the writers cannot operate within these guidelines, then what are the chances that they will create something new, or improve upon something existing that got criticized negatively last time, with no guide on how to improve it? I'll go from slim to none. At least in my proposition, you get the benefit of the doubt for long enough, so that the devs working on the game don't have to look like the merry denizens of Dachau, as they do with Anthem, so they can at least work in some semblance of sanity and afforded the luxury to function as healthy, balanced human beings. What I am saying is that again, it's all about managing the expectations of the audience. Bringing back old trilogy characters would of course gain them an initial marketing boost but it also entails more risks of backlash than new characters. I am not saying the writing has to be bad, but just using these characters (in a significant way, not just a cameo here or there) would already constrain a new project quite a bit. And yes, I will admit, my trust in the BW writers is not what it used to be either. As for the general strategy for a new release, see above.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 14, 2019 15:15:09 GMT
My problem with the idea that a trilogy sequel could save ME is that a trilogy sequel wasn't considered viable before ME:A released, which is why we got ME:A in the first place. Is there any reason to think that's changed?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 15:28:56 GMT
My problem with the idea that a trilogy sequel could save ME is that a trilogy sequel wasn't considered viable before ME:A released, which is why we got ME:A in the first place. Is there any reason to think that's changed? Right on.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 15:32:25 GMT
Nice exchange between Up and adromedary...and i agree with most of what you guys stated here. I will say what i have stated all along in that Andromeda wasn't a bad game, just a very mediorce ME game. Andromeda was also picking off "check boxes" as Andromedary stated, but they was also trying to have their cake eat it too....."hey lets create new characters but have them generically reflect characters from the MW....Vetra = female Garrus...Peebee = Liara.....Gill = Kaiden, Drack = Grunt or Wrex....Liam = uh...well hmmm...uh...sheeit i'll take Jacob over Liam any day.... What kett was doing to the Angarians was symbolic to what the collectors and Reapers was doing with races across the galaxy....Andromeda was playing it safe trying to repeat past themes with the illusion of a a fresh set of paint on it in trying to keep everybody happy.... There are still some mysteries to solved in Andromeda, but can you imagine Bioware announcing Andromeda 2 or something symbolizing a sequel to it?....Look at what is happening with Anthem right now right after the side=show that was Andromeda with it's initial release...Anthem fumbled out of the gate and still hasn't recovered yet and optics overall currently for Anthem is dismal...Anthem was their chance to shine to show them they still had that "it" factor after Andromeda and currently Anthem is a game that is currently in a mediocre state. Sure Anthem can change, but public perception and confidence in Bioware has hit an all time low in terms of their ability to deliver a solid gaming experience....two stinkers in terms of Andromeda and currently Anthem and folks are already skeptic about the next Dragon Age....I think an Andromeda sequel is possible, but the writing has got to be better, characters more compelling and somehow marketing has got to convince the weary public that Bioware will deliver and enjoyable experience reflective of how popular and engaging the trilogy series was.... Yea, at this point. a new ME would be a fairly tough sell no matter what, I think. IMO, they should not announce it at all for a while. If I were them, I'd concentrate on DA4 for the moment and make sure this becomes a good game. At least the DA frnachise did not have any release yet that was broadly viewed as a failure (Inquisition still had a pretty good reputation and the DLCs were widely acknowladged to be very good as far as I can tell). The DA4 Teaser at the end of last year also was greeted with quite some curiosity as far as I saw. So that's where BW can gain some ground again. If they can manage to put out a decent DA4 that people like and thus have restored some of their reputation, than I think would be a good time to announce a new ME (doesn't mean they can't start working on it before). And if the DA4 release does go well, I do think they have the freedom to even take a bit of a chance with it (in terms of marketing. Of course, if they mess up the next DA, I believe they are pretty much done for. If the next DA is decent but the enxt ME is not, than I don't see a real future for the ME franchise. That's kinda my assessment of their current situation. But you have to have trust in the writers that they can write. Otherwise you are basically admitting that no matter what they write, it's going to be shit. In the OT characters you have a blueprint, you have guides, you have everything you need to write something that you know people like. If the writers cannot operate within these guidelines, then what are the chances that they will create something new, or improve upon something existing that got criticized negatively last time, with no guide on how to improve it? I'll go from slim to none. At least in my proposition, you get the benefit of the doubt for long enough, so that the devs working on the game don't have to look like the merry denizens of Dachau, as they do with Anthem, so they can at least work in some semblance of sanity and afforded the luxury to function as healthy, balanced human beings. What I am saying is that again, it's all about managing the expectations of the audience. Bringing back old trilogy characters would of course gain them an initial marketing boost but it also entails more risks of backlash than new characters. I am not saying the writing has to be bad, but just using these characters (in a significant way, not just a cameo here or there) would already constrain a new project quite a bit. And yes, I will admit, my trust in the BW writers is not what it used to be either. As for the general strategy for a new release, see above. Agree. You're essentially saying the same thing as I.... and more eloquently.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 14, 2019 15:40:50 GMT
My problem with the idea that a trilogy sequel could save ME is that a trilogy sequel wasn't considered viable before ME:A released, which is why we got ME:A in the first place. Is there any reason to think that's changed? Not really.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 14, 2019 15:42:21 GMT
Agree. You're essentially saying the same thing as I.... and more eloquently.
I wrote this before I read the new posts.
But, there is one more thing I thought about that might not be a bad idea, marketing wise. Here is the thing, if the Kotaku stuff is to be believed, DA4 development pretty much got rebooted, less than a year ago, right? Which would mean that it will probably take them 2 years or something, just to finish that. So in 2021/22, when the next console generation is out, maybe the best course of action for BW to get people excited about the ME franchise again would be to do some sort of remake of the old trilogy titles with some extensive improvements, especially on ME1.
I am not saying that is something that I would necessarily want but it would basically allow them to capitalize on the good reputation of the trilogy without all the risks that an MW sequel would introduce. And there have been a lot of people asking for such a thing. At that time, it might be the smartest move to make.
My hope is that they'll then sell Andromeda as a separate franchise from Mass Effect... and I think then whoever buys Andromeda will be able to announce a sequel with no difficulties and they'll be able to profit from it because they would have bought it for a song. I don't think you can viably sell Andromeda, without including the ME Universe as a whole. And EA is very well known for killing studio IPs and hoarding them. The chance of any Bioware IP making it out of there is regretfully low to non-existant. I agree with this. I also do not see how one could possibly seperate Andromeda from ME at this point. It would basically be a completely new IP and then, what's the point?
I also agree about the BioWare IPs going into limbo for a while if the studio were to collapse. In fact, me wanting to see a new ME game before 2030 is one of the main remaining reasons why I am still rooting for the studio to be completely honest. It's not like there is a lot of the people that I used to respect a lot left in there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 17:57:06 GMT
Agree. You're essentially saying the same thing as I.... and more eloquently.
I wrote this before I read the new posts.
But, there is one more thing I thought about that might not be a bad idea, marketing wise. Here is the thing, if the Kotaku stuff is to be believed, DA4 development pretty much got rebooted, less than a year ago, right? Which would mean that it will probably take them 2 years or something, just to finish that. So in 2021/22, when the next console generation is out, maybe the best course of action for BW to get people excited about the ME franchise again would be to do some sort of remake of the old trilogy titles with some extensive improvements, especially on ME1.
I am not saying that is something that I would necessarily want but it would basically allow them to capitalize on the good reputation of the trilogy without all the risks that an MW sequel would introduce. And there have been a lot of people asking for such a thing. At that time, it might be the smartest move to make.
I don't think you can viably sell Andromeda, without including the ME Universe as a whole. And EA is very well known for killing studio IPs and hoarding them. The chance of any Bioware IP making it out of there is regretfully low to non-existant. I agree with this. I also do not see how one could possibly seperate Andromeda from ME at this point. It would basically be a completely new IP and then, what's the point?
I also agree about the BioWare IP going into limbo for a while if the studio were to collapse. In fact, Me wanting to see a new ME game before 2030 is one of the main remaining reasons why I am still rooting for the studio to be completely honest. It's not like there is a lot of the people left that I used to respect a lot in there.
I said way back when that I feel a remaster of the Trilogy is inevitable as new hardware will demand it. That doesn't mean that it would (or IMO should) get an extensive story-related makeover in the process) which is what would be required to pacify that segment of the fanbase, according to the long list posted by SirSourpuss about everything that's wrong with ME3. One also has to consider that they did not do a remaster of any kind in the couple of years it took Xbox get around to making ME2 and ME3 backwards compatibility lists and to make ME1 (I think it is) available on the PS4. Back then would have been an ideal time to do it leading up to the launch of ME:A (particularly when they knew by then ME:A's development was way behind schedule and releasing a remaster then may have bought them some more time to finish ME:A properly)... but they didn't.
So, since they didn't do it before, I'm going to guess they're not going to do it now. They may eventually turn over the MET to another studio (like they have with Baldur's Gate).
As I've said before, if they aren't going to do anything with Andromeda, then they SHOULD try to sell it. It's a good enough game idea to fly on it's own without the ME name or baggage. People here seem to think it would have done better without the ME moniker anyways. Will EA do that... it's not their typical MO, but getting some money out of an idea you're going to abandon anyways is better business than getting nothing for it. If they run with doing anything with the OT, they are NOT going back to Andromeda ever (at least that's where I would place my bet). While Andromeda has roots to come back to in the Milky Way, the flow of the OT after the end of the Reaper War has no purpose to pursue the Initiative into the Andromeda Galaxy. The Initiative just becomes a subnote in the lore... like the Manswell Expedition. If they go with an OT move and it flies, they stay with more Shep-tales, period. If it doesn't, the franchise is dead. It's an all or nothing roll of the dice.
Regardless, job 1 is DA4. If DA4 doesn't fly, and fly well... so that their staff get all their enthusiasm back again... Bioware won't even get a chance to roll the ME dice. Their staff will pack up and simply leave the ship
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 14, 2019 18:13:05 GMT
What I am saying is that again, it's all about managing the expectations of the audience. Bringing back old trilogy characters would of course gain them an initial marketing boost but it also entails more risks of backlash than new characters. I think you, again, overestimate the expectations of the players, especially considering what they are currently expecting from Bioware. What they want: -Old crew member(s) back as a squadmate -Their respective VA as well -Their model, slightly updated for modern graphical standards -Hey, if we can pitch in that Frostbyte hair tech demo, that'd be super cool Even if they fail the characterization, to an extent, people will be happy that they even get this, when they thought they'd never get it. Once again, argumentum ad passiones. I am not saying the writing has to be bad, but just using these characters (in a significant way, not just a cameo here or there) would already constrain a new project quite a bit You make the same story you'd make in any other case and explore the theme you'd want, throw the characters in and now you act.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 14, 2019 18:14:30 GMT
As I've said before, if they aren't going to do anything with Andromeda, then they SHOULD try to sell it. It's a good enough game idea to fly on it's own without the ME name or baggage. People here seem to think it would have done better without the ME moniker anyways. Will EA do that... it's not their typical MO, but getting some money out of an idea you're going to abandon anyways is better business than getting nothing for it. If they run with doing anything with the OT, they are NOT going back to Andromeda ever (at least that's where I would place my bet). If they go with an OT move and it flies, they stay with more Shep-tales. If it doesn't, the franchise is dead.
Fair enough on all the rest but this ... I don't think I quite understand what you mean when you say "sell Andromeda". What would you expect them to sell exactly? I mean, without the ME background attached to it, it would just be a scifi game about an expedition, that set out to Andromeda in sleeper ships. No need to buy anything from BioWare for that. If you are thinking of using characters, most of them wouldn't work without ME because half of them are ME specific races and they are all so interconnected, you can't just change anything without basically making new characters. The game design? If you get right down to it, it's a fairly generic 3rd person shooter/action RPG with some vehicle components. Again, no need for a licesnse. Technical stuff runs on frostbite, which EA uses internally, so that would be useless to any buyer (besides, the technical framework of Andromeda for all we know was a major hurdle in development, so it would probably not have that much value for a third party).
So I am not sure what exactly of Andromeda you'd want them to sell that another studio can't do on their own without buying something from EA/BW.
SirSourpuss : Well, since it's all really speculative, I suggest we amicably agree to disagree on audience reception. It would depend on a lot of factors anyway. Let's just wait and see.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 18:58:42 GMT
As I've said before, if they aren't going to do anything with Andromeda, then they SHOULD try to sell it. It's a good enough game idea to fly on it's own without the ME name or baggage. People here seem to think it would have done better without the ME moniker anyways. Will EA do that... it's not their typical MO, but getting some money out of an idea you're going to abandon anyways is better business than getting nothing for it. If they run with doing anything with the OT, they are NOT going back to Andromeda ever (at least that's where I would place my bet). If they go with an OT move and it flies, they stay with more Shep-tales. If it doesn't, the franchise is dead.
Fair enough on all the rest but this ... I don't think I quite understand what you mean when you say "sell Andromeda". What would you expect them to sell exactly? I mean, without the ME background attached to it, it would just be a scifi game about an expedition, that set out to Andromeda in sleeper ships. No need to buy anything from BioWare for that. If you are thinking of using characters, most of them wouldn't work without ME because half of them are ME specific races and they are all so interconnected, you can't just change anything without basically making new characters. The game design? If you get right down to it, it's a fairly generic 3rd person shooter/action RPG with some vehicle components. Again, no need for a licesnse. Technical stuff runs on frostbite, which EA uses internally, so that would be useless to any buyer (besides, the technical framework of Andromeda for all we know was a major hurdle in development, so it would probably not have that much value for a third party).
So I am not sure what exactly of Andromeda you'd want them to sell that another studio can't do on their own without buying something from EA/BW.
SirSourpuss : Well, since it's all really speculative, I suggest we amicably agree to disagree on audience reception. It would depend on a lot of factors anyway. Let's just wait and see. The Andromeda they sell is the planet art, design of the Nexus, Nomad, and Tempest and the story idea going forward along with some limited rights to use the MW species and individuals that are currently in Andromeda. One complaint is that they don't match up with the MW species and are "lore-breaking" anyways. They start out the same, but they are evolving in an entirely new galaxy... eating different foods, being subject to different environmental conditions... it stands to reason that, over time, they would wind up being quite distinct from their Milky Way counterparts. Heck, if Bioware chooses synthesis as a canon ending to ME3, the MW species have already evolved in a way far different than their Andromeda counterparts will ever do.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 14, 2019 19:08:21 GMT
The Andromeda they sell is the planet art and story idea going forward along with some limited rights to use the MW species that are currently in Andromeda. One complaint is that they don't match up with the MW species and are "lore-breaking" anyways. They start out the same, but they are evolving in an entirely new galaxy... eating different foods, being subject to different environmental conditions... it stands to reason that, over time, they would wind up being quite distinct from their Milky Way counterparts. Hmmmm, so selling some sort of limited use of the ME franchise, confined to Andromeda? I really don't see something like that happening. And even if they wanted to sell some package like that, I don't really see anyone buying it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 19:29:09 GMT
The Andromeda they sell is the planet art and story idea going forward along with some limited rights to use the MW species that are currently in Andromeda. One complaint is that they don't match up with the MW species and are "lore-breaking" anyways. They start out the same, but they are evolving in an entirely new galaxy... eating different foods, being subject to different environmental conditions... it stands to reason that, over time, they would wind up being quite distinct from their Milky Way counterparts. Hmmmm, so selling some sort of limited use of the ME franchise, confined to Andromeda? I really don't see something like that happening. And even if they wanted to sell some package like that, I don't really see anyone buying it.
It's all speculation anyways, isn't it. Job 1 is still DA4... and the best thing the fan base can do for the company, for the staff morale, and with the rest of it is just not speculation so much... wait and see.
I will add to the list of parts of the IP that have value that are already unique to Andromeda (already not Mass Effect, if you wish) - the vault network, the terraformed "golden worlds", the remnant, the Jaardan, Meridian, the kett, the Odsy Drive... etc.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 14, 2019 19:30:56 GMT
Hmmmm, so selling some sort of limited use of the ME franchise, confined to Andromeda? I really don't see something like that happening. And even if they wanted to sell some package like that, I don't really see anyone buying it.
It's all speculation anyways, isn't it. Job 1 is still DA4... and the best thing the fan base can do for the company, for the staff morale, and with the rest of it is just not speculation so much... wait and see. Maybe. I am not gonna stop making the odd Anthem joke every now and then though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 21:03:06 GMT
It's all speculation anyways, isn't it. Job 1 is still DA4... and the best thing the fan base can do for the company, for the staff morale, and with the rest of it is just not speculation so much... wait and see. Maybe. I am not gonna stop making the odd Anthem joke every now and then though. Be my guest. I think it's still possible for them to make Anthem into a good game. I'll never know for myself though because of my crap internet. Anything multiplayer is something I just can't play. I'm sure it will ultimately means that I'll only be able to replay the games I already own as I fully expect even single-player games are going to get more and more dependent of being online in some fashion. Everything is going that way, it seems. Hopefully, someday my service provider will upgrade things in their rural areas.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 14, 2019 21:31:57 GMT
In the end, what's I think should be most important to Bioware in deciding this is a focus on deciding what story THEY WANT most to tell us because that's the creative base from which all their own best ideas will flow. If they are just checking off boxes they think will please "the majority" of us, we are going to get a lesser game overall than if they are doing something they themselves can get enthusiastic about again.
Exactly pandering to the fans almost never works and if the few cases where it does work it leaves the franchise much weaker and poorer for it. Also some IP owners need to tell the fans: "Hey this is our property and we will do whatever we want with it and if you don't like it buy something else!" and stop listening to the most whinny entitled shitheads on the net.
That probably is more of of EA losing the license and Hasbro (the parent companies of BioWare and Wizards of the Coast respectfully) and WotC/Hasbro wanting to bring back the Baldur's Gate games because they can use it to sell and market the table top game, novels, comics, toys, and etc. Hasbro knows the selling power of nostalgia why do think they still make Star Wars figures based on new characters from the new movies like those made in 70s and 80s? How do you think The Transformers are still around? They know D&D still sells and that Baldur's Gate is huge part of that franchise and that is why they're releasing the enhances editions and they have new company making Baldur's Gate III.
Hasbro is the Disney of toy and board/table top games companies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 22:03:24 GMT
In the end, what's I think should be most important to Bioware in deciding this is a focus on deciding what story THEY WANT most to tell us because that's the creative base from which all their own best ideas will flow. If they are just checking off boxes they think will please "the majority" of us, we are going to get a lesser game overall than if they are doing something they themselves can get enthusiastic about again.
Exactly pandering to the fans almost never works and if the few cases where it does work it leaves the franchise much weaker and poorer for it. Also some IP owners need to tell the fans: "Hey this is our property and we will do whatever we want with it and if you don't like it buy something else!" and stop listening to the most whinny entitled shitheads on the net.
That probably is more of of EA losing the license and Hasbro (the parent companies of BioWare and Wizards of the Coast respectfully) and WotC/Hasbro wanting to bring back the Baldur's Gate games because they can use it to sell and market the table top game, novels, comics, toys, and etc. Hasbro knows the selling power of nostalgia why do think they still make Star Wars figures based on new characters from the new movies like those made in 70s and 80s? How do you think The Transformers are still around? They know D&D still sells and that Baldur's Gate is huge part of that franchise and that is why they're releasing the enhances editions and they have new company making Baldur's Gate III.
Hasbro is the Disney of toy and board/table top games companies.
Well, then couldn't EA theoretically lose the license to ME in due time?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 14, 2019 22:06:38 GMT
I shudder to think of any other studio doing Mass Effect games and how much that would ruin the franchise.
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