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Post by Catilina on Sept 4, 2016 22:57:47 GMT
Look if someone had raped you and end up traumatized beyond repair, you would torture him too so he could live in horror before he dies and he would wish he was never born. And finally, you poison yourself skillfully that you have no chance to recover. Wise.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Sept 4, 2016 23:13:05 GMT
I always felt that Fenris ultimately was more interested in closure rather than revenge (although the manner in which he killed both Hadriana and Danarius suggests revenge also played a part, albeit not as much as one would think). I think what he desired most was to move beyond what he once was and try to build something new (with Hawke if s/he was his love interest). Anders (because of Justice) never managed to move beyond his anger, and we all saw where that lead him...
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Post by Catilina on Sept 4, 2016 23:33:02 GMT
I always felt that Fenris ultimately was more interested in closure rather than revenge (although the manner in which he killed both Hadriana and Danarius suggests revenge also played a part, albeit not as much as one would think). I think what he desired most was to move beyond what he once was and try to build something new (with Hawke if s/he was his love interest). Anders (because of Justice) never managed to move beyond his anger, and we all saw where that lead him... Yes. He didn't want to kill Hadriana (because promised), but he couldn't control his anger. As you said: he just want to live peacefully. And Fenris also wants to freed the slaves, but not for revenge, rather because it is right. (Anders was angry not because of Justice, he was angry before Justice, before Awakening. But he blew the chantry not exactly for revenge, rather for a chance of a new life, as I see – but my Hawkes approves what he done. "He was trying to change the world, He knew it couldn’t happen peacefully." – However Anders completely different case than Fenris. We dont know, what could happen, if Anders left his anger beyond, because of Justice.)
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 5, 2016 0:26:18 GMT
Look if someone had raped you and end up traumatized beyond repair, you would torture him too so he could live in horror before he dies and he would wish he was never born. I have no idea what I would do in such a situation...so you certainly don't know what I would do. What does "beyond repair" mean in this case? I don't think Fenris fits that in any way. He has learned to use the markings to his advantage (and to Danarius's downfall) and -- in a Hawke romance at least -- has learned to come to terms with his past and accept that he can be happy. Ending Danarius's threat helped him realize that he was ready to be with Hawke again, for good this time. To me, that seems like he is well on his way to healing.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 0:56:59 GMT
Look if someone had raped you and end up traumatized beyond repair, you would torture him too so he could live in horror before he dies and he would wish he was never born. I have no idea what I would do in such a situation...so you certainly don't know what I would do. What does "beyond repair" mean in this case? I don't think Fenris fits that in any way. He has learned to use the markings to his advantage (and to Danarius's downfall) and -- in a Hawke romance at least -- has learned to come to terms with his past and accept that he can be happy. Ending Danarius's threat helped him realize that he was ready to be with Hawke again, for good this time. To me, that seems like he is well on his way to healing. Do you really think that just because he's having a relationship with someone like it's going to erase all the horrible trauma he had to go through like it's that easy? Come on you can't just get over when someone raped you especially a man raped another man. And a slave.
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 5, 2016 0:59:12 GMT
I have no idea what I would do in such a situation...so you certainly don't know what I would do. What does "beyond repair" mean in this case? I don't think Fenris fits that in any way. He has learned to use the markings to his advantage (and to Danarius's downfall) and -- in a Hawke romance at least -- has learned to come to terms with his past and accept that he can be happy. Ending Danarius's threat helped him realize that he was ready to be with Hawke again, for good this time. To me, that seems like he is well on his way to healing. Do you really think that he'll had a relationship to wish all away like or was that easy? Come on you can't just get over when someone raped you especially a man raped another man. Nowhere did I say it was easy. It took years for him to get back to the point where he could be intimate with Hawke again, after he left the first time. Did you play the Fenris/Hawke romance? I didn't make any of that up. It's in the game.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 1:39:14 GMT
What do you want? We had tell our opinion. The fact that even a few times you write how terrible to be a slave/raped, this will not change: yes, Danarius and his kind deserve harsh punishment. But the sadism does not solve anything. Danarius died. Hadriana died, Fenris has done what it should be, and got a chance for a better life. Do you think makes Fenris feel better, if he per thread, slowly tearing out Danarius entrails? And he would be healthier? Hardly. Fenris is one of the most positive person in the whole game. Precisely because despite of his past he doesn't want to be bloodthirsty and be able/want to enjoy the life. Do you think this is not normal, I think it is.
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 4:45:36 GMT
Do you really think that he'll had a relationship to wish all away like or was that easy? Come on you can't just get over when someone raped you especially a man raped another man. Nowhere did I say it was easy. It took years for him to get back to the point where he could be intimate with Hawke again, after he left the first time. Did you play the Fenris/Hawke romance? I didn't make any of that up. It's in the game. I did romanced him and I'll never do that again.
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 5, 2016 5:02:31 GMT
Nowhere did I say it was easy. It took years for him to get back to the point where he could be intimate with Hawke again, after he left the first time. Did you play the Fenris/Hawke romance? I didn't make any of that up. It's in the game. I did romanced him and I'll never do that again. ...So then what's your argument? You may not like the romance, but that's the way Fenris was written. He doesn't remain broken forever. Why would you want him to?
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 5:13:56 GMT
I did romanced him and I'll never do that again. ...So then what's your argument? You may not like the romance, but that's the way Fenris was written. He doesn't remain broken forever. Why would you want him to? I never said that I want him broken (and he already is from the horrible things he had gone through as a slave) I said it won't be easy by having a relationship like is going to erase his past like "Tada!" AndvI wouldn't romance him because I feel like I'm bringing bad memories when he was raped by that bastard and my character was a mage. I just don't want to make things complicated than it already is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 7:44:53 GMT
...So then what's your argument? You may not like the romance, but that's the way Fenris was written. He doesn't remain broken forever. Why would you want him to? I never said that I want him broken (and he already is from the horrible things he had gone through as a slave) I said it won't be easy by having a relationship like is going to erase his past like "Tada!" AndvI wouldn't romance him because I feel like I'm bringing bad memories when he was raped by that bastard and my character was a mage. I just don't want to make things complicated than it already is. It's not that easy, and doesn't erase his past. It's years before the relationship actually goes forward. It's also addressed in the romance arc (admittedly it's very brief, but it's there. He's not bothered by dude!Hawke, or mage!Hawke). He isn't traumatised beyond repair, and moving forward from was done to him is what his story arc is about (and tbh, it's kind of gross to insinuate that an abuse survivor can't move past it)
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Sept 5, 2016 9:52:57 GMT
I am not sure what it is we are discussing? From a storytelling perspective a torture scene with Danarius would not have served any purpose other than for the player to view excessive violence, and that has never been a part of the Dragon Age series. I would honestly have felt extremely uncomfortable if I would have had to watch such a scene. If you felt that Hawke being with a man and/or a mage is problematic that is fine, just know that others do not share the same sentiment and that is fine as well. I know women that are victims of rape, and although still deeply traumatized they have fortunately still been able to have loving relationships. One of them actually said once that she found it insulting that TV and movies always had to make it out to be impossible to have a normal love-life afterwards. So, my point is that it probably differs a lot between victims. Wow, this discussion is really depressing... let's make horribly light if this, shall we? By NarutoLover6219
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 10:11:02 GMT
I never said that I want him broken (and he already is from the horrible things he had gone through as a slave) I said it won't be easy by having a relationship like is going to erase his past like "Tada!" AndvI wouldn't romance him because I feel like I'm bringing bad memories when he was raped by that bastard and my character was a mage. I just don't want to make things complicated than it already is. It's very wise of you again. Poor Fenris, not enough his past, your Hawkes treat him as a pathetic glass flower. By the way: You treat people in this way? If the answer "yes", you have more prejudices as I saw before.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 12:37:58 GMT
Okay, let's look at something positive: source
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 5, 2016 13:02:37 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
Fenris was driven but also a whiner. I rarely took him with me.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 13:43:22 GMT
I've never heard this from Fenris. Thank you very much!
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 5, 2016 14:09:00 GMT
I've never heard this from Fenris. Thank you very much! <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> He is totally obsessed. He can't stop talking about it. Therefore he is driven. He has one two goals. Survive and kill his ex master. Fenris' character is based on his experience as a slave. He knows nothing else but hatred. A 2D character, if you ask me. So I dropped him early on after the necessary missions. Anyway, that's my perception of him from the very beginning. Same with Carver, another whiner. Carver is of the opinion that the world owes him something. Now, that may very well be a mistake on my part. However, If a character fails to hook me early on, I drop them.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 14:19:36 GMT
I dont think he is 2D character. Fenris often surprisingly open minded, and his fear & reluctance of magic are not inexplicable. I found this video on YouTube, I think this demonstrate well, what I wrote – from ~2:00 (Before I linked this here, sorry, if anyone saw):
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 5, 2016 20:18:23 GMT
I dont think he is 2D character. Fenris often surprisingly open minded, and his fear & reluctance of magic are not inexplicable. I found this video on YouTube, I think this demonstrate well, what I wrote – from ~2:00 (Before I linked this here, sorry, if anyone saw): Ouch! I know this is off topic, but I thought I remember that girl escaping?? Does it depend on Hawke's response? Or am I thinking of a different scene?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 20:24:11 GMT
Ouch! I know this is off topic, but I thought I remember that girl escaping?? Does it depend on Hawke's response? Or am I thinking of a different scene? If Justice don't kill Ella, Fenris don't say anything. Here is my version. ~0.45–01:45. And here the Ella quest, when Justice don't kill Ella (+5 friendship points from Fenris). I think, you remember to this version.
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Post by dragontartare on Sept 5, 2016 21:10:03 GMT
I've never heard this from Fenris. Thank you very much! <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> He is totally obsessed. He can't stop talking about it. Therefore he is driven. He has one two goals. Survive and kill his ex master. Fenris' character is based on his experience as a slave. He knows nothing else but hatred. A 2D character, if you ask me. So I dropped him early on after the necessary missions. Anyway, that's my perception of him from the very beginning. Same with Carver, another whiner. Carver is of the opinion that the world owes him something. Now, that may very well be a mistake on my part. However, If a character fails to hook me early on, I drop them. I think that is a mistake, yes. How you can call an escaped slave and rape survivor "whiny" is something I don't understand. Of course he was "obsessed" with it, at least at first. That was his entire life, and now he's got to figure out how to live as a free man. One of his goals is closure...which happens to involve killing Danarius, who would otherwise continue hunting for Fenris for the rest of his life. What did you expect him to do? Just sort of forget that Danarius is out there, actively searching for him? I completely disagree that he knows nothing but hatred. You didn't get very far with him at all, did you? The only hate he really has is for Danarius, Hadriana, and slavers in general. And who doesn't hate slavers? Fenris distrusts mages, he doesn't hate them on principle. He has a problem with Merrill who is, after all, a blood mage; and with Anders, who is possessed. But through banter, you learn that he likes and respects Bethany quite a bit. And of course, he has no problem following around a mage Hawke and refuses to turn any of the mages in when Sebastian suggests it. Fenris builds friendships with Varric, Donnic, and Isabela (optionally "friends with benefits"), and can fall in love with Hawke -- regardless of Hawke's class -- if you choose to pursue the romance. Fenris is a fascinating character. It's too bad you chose not to give him a chance. Ouch! I know this is off topic, but I thought I remember that girl escaping?? Does it depend on Hawke's response? Or am I thinking of a different scene? If Justice don't kill Ella, Fenris don't say anything. Here is my version. ~0.45–01:45 And here the Ella quest, when Justice don't kill Ella (+5 friendship points from Fenris). I think, you remember to this version. Ah, thanks That is the version I remember!
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 21:42:18 GMT
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Post by cloud9 on Sept 5, 2016 22:33:59 GMT
Look if someone had raped you and end up traumatized beyond repair, you would torture him too so he could live in horror before he dies and he would wish he was never born. And finally, you poison yourself skillfully that you have no chance to recover. Wise. Hate can take you to many places especially when someone caused you pain.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 22:39:31 GMT
And finally, you poison yourself skillfully that you have no chance to recover. Wise. Hate can take you to many places especially when someone caused you pain. Yes. But what the hell you want? (I has been asked before, much more polite.) We still talk about Fenris? If yes, you do not have to worry about him, he is strong, solved his problem. If you talking about someone else, then I afraid, I can't help.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 0:27:17 GMT
Have a pretty Fenris. Mods are 1, 2, 3, 4,
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