sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 16, 2020 19:43:33 GMT
To be fair, this is what critics were saying on the original BSN after EA acquired Bioware. Though there's obviously more to it since they made good games under EA as well. |I aghree that in some ways EA's influence has affected how Biowae ris run some ways good in other ways bad but I will as yfrom a good side is I don't think Bioware would have enjoyed as much success with the ME trilogy without EA's help.
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Post by Frost on Feb 16, 2020 19:53:58 GMT
EA may have done some meddling. I believe they were the ones that cut DA2's development time so short. But then they gave Bioware 7 bloody years on Anthem, and reading Schreier's report it's clear all the blame in that case is on Bioware. I think the sad reality is most of the former devs have moved on for various reasons and their replacements just aren't as talented. It seems likely EA is also responsible for the DA4 reboot to include LS. Bioware is responsible for poor project/time management on Anthem, but I blame EA for Bioware's move away from single-player rpgs. EA has long been against single-player games, and at one point they even said they wouldn't green light any single-player-only games.
RPGs also don't make the amount of money that EA wants to make. The quotation below is from a Kotaku article about Visceral. However, to me it seems likely that EA would say similar things to Bioware: "Hennig also wasn't used to working with a corporation like Electronic Arts. Despite being owned by electronics giant Sony, Naughty Dog had been able to operate autonomously, in large part because they were widely perceived as the corporation’s prestige video game studio. At EA, however, things were different. “She was giving these massive presentations on the story, themes,” said one person who worked on Ragtag. “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?” "
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 16, 2020 20:04:56 GMT
Doesnt look good for DA4. wccftech.com/former-bioware-writer-joins-archetype-entertainment-says-bioware-has-become-corporate/ You show people the truth, they still want to believe that BioWare can't do no wrong. Bioware can stand in the middle of Times Square and proclaim that DA4 lacks any creativity and will not push the RPG genre forward one bit and that DA4 is just a compilation of recent industry trends to include a Battle Royal mode for DA4, loot boxes, endless microtransactions, no emphasis on story/character development and that they are teaming up with Call of Duty writers to write the DA4 story which will only be 3 hours of pure corridor gameplay, extremely minimum RPG elements. There will STILL be people who will proclaim that nothing is wrong and that Bioware is still the great quality developer and that DA4 will be their best game in years.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 16, 2020 20:16:24 GMT
Without knowing exactly what the LS elements in DA4 are even going to be, I'm finding it hard to be properly panicked about it.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 16, 2020 20:18:11 GMT
You show people the truth, they still want to believe that BioWare can't do no wrong. Bioware can stand in the middle of Times Square and proclaim that DA4 lacks any creativity and will not push the RPG genre forward one bit and that DA4 is just a compilation of recent industry trends to include a Battle Royal mode for DA4, loot boxes, endless microtransactions, no emphasis on story/character development and that they are teaming up with Call of Duty writers to write the DA4 story which will only be 3 hours of pure corridor gameplay, extremely minimum RPG elements. There will STILL be people who will proclaim that nothing is wrong and that Bioware is still the great quality developer and that DA4 will be their best game in years. Jazz don't get upset when people disagree with you. You're the one who presented an article without comment and you're acting all upset because people take time out of their busy schedule to not only disagree but explain why they think so. It's clear that you don't want a conversation, you want an echo chamber with people who agree with you. I mean for crying out loud read your own post that I've quoted. You honestly believe that people are in denial about the state of Bioware? Have you've read the posts here? Or are you just angry that you can't get away with your nonsense because this an open forum. There are plenty of people who like ME: A, Anthem and is excited for DA4 BUT they are cautious of what EA could do and the leadership. But you know what Jazz? These guys can still find enjoyment in both games and can express some concern while hoping that they can fix the errors from Anthem and ME: A and apply to DA4. Jazz this is getting old, you don't think much about people who are fans of DAI, ME: A and Anthem. You know what? Fine I personally think it's silly to hold grudges over expensive pieces of entertainment I mean disagree with colfoley in regards to the sequel trilogy of Star Wars but you know what? I don't hold it against him and I even engaged with intelligent debates with colfoley. I also am friendly towards some people who don't like the direction of where Bioware is going, we can have a conversation about it and be exposed to each other's viewpoints. You on the other hand? Time and time again it seems that you don't want to engage in a meaningful conversation, you just want to doomsay about the current state of Bioware, talk about how CDPR, Cyberpunk and The Witcher 3 are so awesome that they are above criticism. Then you get all shocked when people say: "I disagree." It's obvious you haven't read others post about why people disputed Drew's departure. Your act was fun at first but it's become stale either come up with new material or go to the echo chambers on this site and be with people who won't oppose you. There's plenty here if you look.
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Post by river82 on Feb 16, 2020 20:33:50 GMT
Doesnt look good for DA4. wccftech.com/former-bioware-writer-joins-archetype-entertainment-says-bioware-has-become-corporate/ oooh corporate, scary. It depends what sort of corporate aspects a company takes on board. FWIW I don't see Bioware's examples of corporate...ness to be exceedingly worrisome, Blizzard's on the other hand is. Cutting 800 staff not because they weren't making money but because they wanted to make more money, funnelling more games out quickly at the expense of their identity which has always been about polish and quality (Warcraft 3 reforged), increasing grind and funnelling consumers into their cash shop, censoring criticisms of China from Hong Kong players on their platform (Blizzard is huge in China) are all examples of being corporate at the expense of valuing their staff or their consumers. I think we've all worked or heard stories about people who have worked at businesses who are concerned at making money at the expense of almost everything else (like humanity and morals.) Bioware's examples of being corporate seem to be just decreased risk and creativity, which I believe is what his comment about decisions by marketing is about. But not everyone wants experimental new games to play, a lot of times people just want something familiar and fun. We'll see where they go from here
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Post by smilesja on Feb 16, 2020 20:34:57 GMT
What's going on in Blizzard is insane.
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 16, 2020 21:31:24 GMT
EA may have done some meddling. I believe they were the ones that cut DA2's development time so short. But then they gave Bioware 7 bloody years on Anthem, and reading Schreier's report it's clear all the blame in that case is on Bioware. I think the sad reality is most of the former devs have moved on for various reasons and their replacements just aren't as talented. It seems likely EA is also responsible for the DA4 reboot to include LS. Bioware is responsible for poor project/time management on Anthem, but I blame EA for Bioware's move away from single-player rpgs. EA has long been against single-player games, and at one point they even said they wouldn't green light any single-player-only games.
RPGs also don't make the amount of money that EA wants to make. The quotation below is from a Kotaku article about Visceral. However, to me it seems likely that EA would say similar things to Bioware: "Hennig also wasn't used to working with a corporation like Electronic Arts. Despite being owned by electronics giant Sony, Naughty Dog had been able to operate autonomously, in large part because they were widely perceived as the corporation’s prestige video game studio. At EA, however, things were different. “She was giving these massive presentations on the story, themes,” said one person who worked on Ragtag. “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?” " That was before Fallen Order though but with the success that's enjoyed the sounds coming out from EA are quite encouraging regarding SP games. I think EA is just struggling to find a balance but they have given us I would say at least 2 good SP experiences 1 being Fallen Order and whilst NFS Heat isn't SP only it has a very good and interesting single player racing experience as well. Because NFS Heat' s story was well done. Yes it is a bit short but very enjoyable and playing chicken with the AI cops on the game can be really good fun as well.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 16, 2020 21:34:40 GMT
It seems likely EA is also responsible for the DA4 reboot to include LS. Bioware is responsible for poor project/time management on Anthem, but I blame EA for Bioware's move away from single-player rpgs. EA has long been against single-player games, and at one point they even said they wouldn't green light any single-player-only games.
RPGs also don't make the amount of money that EA wants to make. The quotation below is from a Kotaku article about Visceral. However, to me it seems likely that EA would say similar things to Bioware: "Hennig also wasn't used to working with a corporation like Electronic Arts. Despite being owned by electronics giant Sony, Naughty Dog had been able to operate autonomously, in large part because they were widely perceived as the corporation’s prestige video game studio. At EA, however, things were different. “She was giving these massive presentations on the story, themes,” said one person who worked on Ragtag. “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?” " That was befoer Fallen Order though but wit hth esuccess that's enjoyed the sound scommin out from EA aer quit encouraging regarding SP games. I think EA is just struggling t ofind a balance but they have given us I would as yat least 2 good SP experiences 1 being Fallen Order and whilst NFS Heat isn't SPonly it has a very good and interesting single player racing experience as well. Because NFS Heat' s story was well done. Yes i tis a bi tshort but vrey enjoyable and playing chicken wit hthe cpos on the game can be really good fun as well. Give us a true and full SP only Star Wars RPG game and then we'll talk.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 16, 2020 21:48:56 GMT
Lol. "Then we'll talk". Talk about what? EA doesn't need us.
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Post by githcheater on Feb 16, 2020 21:51:52 GMT
Drew Karpyshyn had two stints at Bioware. His second stint ended in March 2018 while he was working on Anthem. Having worked in both Austin and Edmonton, Drew had a unique perspective of the corporate politics between the A studio (Edmonton), B studio (Austin) and C studio (Montreal). Drew also saw the EA corporate command and control management style of double guessing and reboots, where the opinions of frontline employees were dismissed and ignored. One can only hope that EA leadership allows more of a team approach, and produces a game RPG players want, rather than a live service game desired by shareholders.
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Post by Frost on Feb 16, 2020 22:15:16 GMT
It seems likely EA is also responsible for the DA4 reboot to include LS. Bioware is responsible for poor project/time management on Anthem, but I blame EA for Bioware's move away from single-player rpgs. EA has long been against single-player games, and at one point they even said they wouldn't green light any single-player-only games.
RPGs also don't make the amount of money that EA wants to make. The quotation below is from a Kotaku article about Visceral. However, to me it seems likely that EA would say similar things to Bioware: "Hennig also wasn't used to working with a corporation like Electronic Arts. Despite being owned by electronics giant Sony, Naughty Dog had been able to operate autonomously, in large part because they were widely perceived as the corporation’s prestige video game studio. At EA, however, things were different. “She was giving these massive presentations on the story, themes,” said one person who worked on Ragtag. “EA executives are like, ‘FIFA Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year.’ Where’s your version of that?” " That was before Fallen Order though but with the success that's enjoyed the sounds coming out from EA are quite encouraging regarding SP games. I think EA is just struggling to find a balance but they have given us I would say at least 2 good SP experiences 1 being Fallen Order and whilst NFS Heat isn't SP only it has a very good and interesting single player racing experience as well. Because NFS Heat' s story was well done. Yes it is a bit short but very enjoyable and playing chicken with the AI cops on the game can be really good fun as well. Do you think EA/Bioware would make a single-player-only DA4? Seems unlikely to me, but I would be very happy to be wrong.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 16, 2020 22:24:58 GMT
The fact Drew even posted it in his blog, basically "BioWare is not pure anymore, sorry guys, oh, here's my new studio", is pretty crappy. James Ohlen, Chad Robertson, Ben Irving, Tal Peleg, Rico Flores, Fernando Melo, Mike Laidlaw, etc...none of them said anything but "hey, it was great while it lasted but it's time to move on. I wish everyone here well". Drew added the stuff about BioWare for a reason...he knew it would get traction, make BioWare look bad and make his studio look good at their expense. Like I said, petty...and a window into his bias.
Be that as it may, he's never had anything to with the Dragon Age franchise so it's kind of irrelevant. Mark Darrah has been the executive producer since "Origins" and he has Dragon Age vets Daniel Kading, John Epler, Courtney Woods, Matthew Goldman, Patrick Weekes, Luke Kristjanson, Brianne Battye, Sylvia Feketekuty, etc (to name a few) so this belief there is a serious drain of BioWare veterans yet to be replaced just doesn't hold up. People leave studios all the time at different times for different reasons. Just this past week, Rod Fergusson left The Coalition to head up Diablo 4's development while Mile Laidlaw left Ubisoft Quebec for who knows what...are eithercof these studios in trouble or is just people getting different jobs/opportunities?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 16, 2020 22:26:30 GMT
That was before Fallen Order though but with the success that's enjoyed the sounds coming out from EA are quite encouraging regarding SP games. I think EA is just struggling to find a balance but they have given us I would say at least 2 good SP experiences 1 being Fallen Order and whilst NFS Heat isn't SP only it has a very good and interesting single player racing experience as well. Because NFS Heat' s story was well done. Yes it is a bit short but very enjoyable and playing chicken with the AI cops on the game can be really good fun as well. Do you think EA/Bioware would make a single-player-only DA4? Seems unlikely to me, but I would be very happy to be wrong. No and I never said that they would. Also RPG's of the kind Bioware make are very expensive that is why they tag them with some sort of multiplayer so they have a means in which to rake some of that money back in. But so long as there is single player availablre in it then I'm happy and that I am pretty sure we will get. Whether anyone here is happy with what Bioware produce we will only know in time.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 16, 2020 22:35:32 GMT
The fact Drew even posted it in his blog, basically "BioWare is not pure anymore, sorry guys, oh, here's my new studio", is pretty crappy. James Ohlen, Chad Robertson, Ben Irving, Tal Peleg, Rico Flores, Fernando Melo, Mike Laidlaw, etc...none of them said anything but "hey, it was great while it lasted but it's time to move on. I wish everyone here well". Drew added the stuff about BioWare for a reason...he knew it would get traction, make BioWare look bad and make his studio look good at their expense. Like I said, petty...and a window into his bias. Be that as it may, he's never had anything to with the Dragon Age franchise so it's kind of irrelevant. Mark Darrah has been the executive producer since "Origins" and he has Dragon Age vets Daniel Kading, John Epler, Courtney Woods, Matthew Goldman, Patrick Weekes, Luke Kristjanson, Brianne Battye, Sylvia Feketekuty, etc (to name a few) so this belief there is a serious drain of BioWare veterans yet to be replaced just doesn't hold up. People leave studios all the time at different times for different reasons. Just this past week, Rod Fergusson left The Coalition to head up Diablo 4's development while Mile Laidlaw left Ubisoft Quebec for who knows what...are eithercof these studios in trouble or is just people getting different jobs/opportunities? But Drew's word trumps over Laidlaw's for some reason.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 16, 2020 22:53:22 GMT
What he said was pretty mild. And other devs have been way harsher, especially the anonymous ones Schreier interviewed. Also: Electronic Arts. EA Archetype Entertainment. AE
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 16, 2020 22:56:26 GMT
That was before Fallen Order though but with the success that's enjoyed the sounds coming out from EA are quite encouraging regarding SP games. I think EA is just struggling to find a balance but they have given us I would say at least 2 good SP experiences 1 being Fallen Order and whilst NFS Heat isn't SP only it has a very good and interesting single player racing experience as well. Because NFS Heat' s story was well done. Yes it is a bit short but very enjoyable and playing chicken with the AI cops on the game can be really good fun as well. Do you think EA/Bioware would make a single-player-only DA4? Seems unlikely to me, but I would be very happy to be wrong. I think it will be like their other previous RPGs, where there is a single player only campaign and then perhaps a fun multiplayer mode.
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Post by githcheater on Feb 16, 2020 23:13:26 GMT
Be that as it may, he's never had anything to with the Dragon Age franchise so it's kind of irrelevant.
Drew had two stints at Bioware (under EA) as lead writer on three different games, so it is kind of relevent. Ignoring the failure of other franchises like Andromeda and Anthem seems foolish to me. The writing for Anthem got short shrifted and jacked around. It is no wonder that he left. With the EA focus on live service, I believe one has to take off their Bioware blinders and consider the remote possiblity that the story for DA4 might be short shrifted. After all, this is EA and their repetitive live service missteps that we are talking about.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 16, 2020 23:34:57 GMT
That was befoer Fallen Order though but wit hth esuccess that's enjoyed the sound scommin out from EA aer quit encouraging regarding SP games. I think EA is just struggling t ofind a balance but they have given us I would as yat least 2 good SP experiences 1 being Fallen Order and whilst NFS Heat isn't SPonly it has a very good and interesting single player racing experience as well. Because NFS Heat' s story was well done. Yes i tis a bi tshort but vrey enjoyable and playing chicken wit hthe cpos on the game can be really good fun as well. Give us a true and full SP only Star Wars RPG game and then we'll talk. Why are you ignoring Fallen Order's massive success? And who is us? Speak for yourself Jazz seriously it seems that you're willfully ignoring Fallen Order because it doesn't fit your narrative.
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 16, 2020 23:39:17 GMT
Give us a true and full SP only Star Wars RPG game and then we'll talk. Why are you ignoring Fallen Order's massive success? And who is us? Speak for yourself Jazz seriously it seems that you're willfully ignoring Fallen Order because it doesn't fit your narrative. Seems? Haha
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Post by samhain444 on Feb 16, 2020 23:45:57 GMT
Be that as it may, he's never had anything to with the Dragon Age franchise so it's kind of irrelevant.
Drew had two stints at Bioware (under EA) as lead writer on three different games, so it is kind of relevent. Ignoring the failure of other franchises like Andromeda and Anthem seems foolish to me. The writing for Anthem got short shrifted and jacked around. It is no wonder that he left. With the EA focus on live service, I believe one has to take off their Bioware blinders and consider the remote possiblity that the story for DA4 might be short shrifted. After all, this is EA and their repetitive live service missteps that we are talking about.
Despite it's issues, Mass Effect Andromeda was always Single Player RPG with an added Multiplayer that didn't impact the single player experience. SWTOR was always an MMO which you could experience as a single player. Anthem really was the only one that didn't have an identity as a new IP and, considering the reports on Anthem's development, Drew's contributions weren't the only ones that were truncated. As far as Dragon Age 4, I'll start worrying when there is something to actually be worried about...the fact they have been given until mid-to-late 2022 to work on it hasn't added exactly added to my anxiety.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 16, 2020 23:53:56 GMT
Why are you ignoring Fallen Order's massive success? And who is us? Speak for yourself Jazz seriously it seems that you're willfully ignoring Fallen Order because it doesn't fit your narrative. Seems? Haha Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 17, 2020 0:23:03 GMT
Do you think EA/Bioware would make a single-player-only DA4? Seems unlikely to me, but I would be very happy to be wrong. I think it will be like their other previous RPGs, where there is a single player only campaign and then perhaps a fun multiplayer mode. Yeah that's what I'm expecting where the ycan just micro tranasction the multiplayer like they usually do. Whereby if you want to fast track the MP you'll have to pay for it. Just like they did wit hDAI and the previous 2 ME games
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 17, 2020 0:33:27 GMT
I think it will be like their other previous RPGs, where there is a single player only campaign and then perhaps a fun multiplayer mode. Yeah that's what I'm expecting where the ycan just micro tranasction the multiplayer like they usually do. Whereby if you want to fast track the MP you'll have to pay for it. Just like they did wit hDAI and the previous 2 ME games Probably sell some items as DLC packs for the single player too, since those I've seen sometimes considered as microtransactions.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 17, 2020 0:46:38 GMT
You show people the truth, they still want to believe that BioWare can't do no wrong. Bioware can stand in the middle of Times Square and proclaim that DA4 lacks any creativity and will not push the RPG genre forward one bit and that DA4 is just a compilation of recent industry trends to include a Battle Royal mode for DA4, loot boxes, endless microtransactions, no emphasis on story/character development and that they are teaming up with Call of Duty writers to write the DA4 story which will only be 3 hours of pure corridor gameplay, extremely minimum RPG elements. There will STILL be people who will proclaim that nothing is wrong and that Bioware is still the great quality developer and that DA4 will be their best game in years. Are you aware that Casey Hudson wrote a blog article explaining none of what you said was true? That DA 4 would be a typical Dragon Age experience which would focus on 'story/character'? Now obviously that remains to be seen but until the marketing campaign kicks into high gear and we have more evidence to the contrary that is all we have to go on. And I see no reason for Casey Hudson to be lying. And given the Dread Wolf teaser trailer during the game awards also does nothing to discount the notion.
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