Numerical Tests Thread - Peddro's Debuff Bonuses from the Same Player Do Not Stack
Oct 22, 2016 7:44:40 GMT
burningcherry likes this
Post by BlackMage on Oct 22, 2016 7:44:40 GMT
peddroelm
Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:34 PM
Edited by peddroelmz, 17 March 2013 - 03:47 PM
UPDATE - further debuff stack tests ...
Proximity Mines Debuffs from DIFFERENT players WILL STACK ... (go go all GI PARTY)
Warp Debuffs from DIFFERENT players will stack (both damage bonuses and armor weakening)...
Tactical scan will Remove Tactical scan debuff and then activate its on effect ( DOES NOT STACK EVER)
Biotic Bubble debuff DOES NOT STACK (ever)...
Recon Mine debuff DOES NOT STACK (ever)
Cryo Blast Debuffs from DIFFERENT players will stack (both damage bonuses and armor weakening)...
Snap Freeze debuffs from DIFFERENT players will stack (both damage bonuses and armor weakening)...
Annihilation Field from DIFFERENT players will stack
(slow effects not tested yet..)
latest tests with multiple players
(tests done by me with the help of corlist & Vironblood)
Weapon Damage Bonus from the Debuffs - Annihilation Field (15%), Biotic Sphere (up to 25%) , Cryo Blast (up to 25%) , Proximity Mine (20%) , Tactical Scan (up to 32.5%), Snap Freeze (10%) , Warp ( 15%) effects are treated as HEAD SHOT BONUSES (will add to the 2.5 default head shot modifier in case of headshots) and Bonuses From the same debuff type DO NOT STACK (different debuff types will stack additively ) ...
Adding their bonuses in case of headshots with the headshot modifier prevents astronomical damage numbers in case of headshots on debuffed targets ...
Simplified Weapon damage Formula for purpose of explaining ...
K = BaseWeaponDamage * (1 + sum_weapon_bonuses)
(headshot passive, targeting VI consumable, vulnerability VI gear are all weapon bonuses - will add to sum_weapon_damage)
////////
Weapon Damage inflicted on debuffed targets is
K * (HSmod + sum_debuffs_on_target)
HSmod = 1 (no headshot) OR WeaponDefaultHS * (1+pistol_trauma_Add_on_bonus + Marksman_HS_bonus)
WeaponDefaultHS bonus : 2.5 for most weapons capable of headshots (kishock & graal have 3)
Pistol_trauma_Add_on_bonus : using a pistol with the Pistol Cranial Trauma system (0.4 at lvl V)
Marksman_HS_bonus : Selecting the 25% headshot evolution for marksman gives (0.3125) bonus
Debuff bonuses will stack in a similar manner for power , melee & ammo damage minus the HS components as those types of damage cannot score headshots ....
///////////
//////////
Few Numeric examples from the tests that would probably help explain better ...
////////////////
TS + Justicar
Predator X (pistol cranial trauma V) marksman HS + biotic bubble
no weapon damage bonuses
Calculated HS damage
73.5 * (1+0) * (2.5 * (1 + 0.3125 + 0.4) + 0.25) = 333.046875
Measured
333.046875
333.046875
333.046875 ..
///////////////
///////////////
GI + Justicar
Predator X (pistol cranial trauma V) marksman HS + biotic bubble
22.5% WD passive (cloak off hunter mode off)
Proxy Mine 400 base (20% rank 3, 15% networked AI)
---------------------
Calculated Body Shot damage ( Bubble debuff)
73.5 * (1 + 0.225) * (1 + 0.25) = 112.546875
Measured
112.546875
----------------------
Calculated Body Shot damage (Proximity Mine & Bubble debuff)
73.5 * (1 + 0.225) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.2) = 130.554375
Measured
130.554382
-------------------
PM + PM + ... damage (won't go higher) /// PM debuff doesn't stack with itself
Calculated
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2) = 648
Measured
648
--------------
PM + PM + PM + PM + PM....
In bubble
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.25) = 783 //PM debuff doesn't stack with itself
Measured
783
////////////////////////
///////////////////////
//////////////////////
Biotic Buble + Biotic Bubble
Predator X head shot (trauma add-on)
Calculated
73.5 * ((2.5 * (1 + 0.4)) + 0.25) = // 275.625 no double debuff from double bubble
Measured
275.625
////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////
Cryo blast spammed
in bubble
Weapon Phaeston X
27.5% WD passive
--------------
Calculated Body shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 100.215
Measured
100.215027
--------------
Calculated Head shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (2.5 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 200.43
Measured
200.430054
/////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////
Snap Freeze Spammed
in bubble
Weapon Phaeston X
27.5% WD passive
--------------
Calculated Body shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1) = 90.1935
Measured
90.193481
--------------
Calculated Head shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (2.5 + 0.25 + 0.1) = 190.4085
Measured
190.408508
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
Will also add an older solo test TS
Measured
1350 - 666.8938 = 683.1062
Calculated
97.7 * (1 + 0.225 + 0.25 + 0.8 + 0.2) * (2.5 + 0.325) = 683.1061
/////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
Warp & pistol trauma headshot example (Predator X)
709.6574 - 427.9687 = 281.6887
73.5 * (1 + 0.05) * (2.5 * (1 + 0.4) + 0.15) = 281.68875
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
BjornDaDwarf
Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:06 PM
Are you planning on testing how these debuffs interact with powers? I've been curious about if the stack additively with things like the Armor/Shield evolutions, or if they multiply times those. Would make some sense if they stack additively like they do with the HShot modifier.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
peddroelm
Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:17 PM (responding to BjornDaDwarf)
Here is an example of debuffs interacting with power (similar with weapon damage but without HeadShot mods ..)
Proxy mine damage vs target debuffed by Proximity mine (20%) and Biotic Bubble (25%)
400 is proximity mine base damage
20% damage (rank 3 evolution for proximity mine)
15% power damage from passive
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.25) = 783
Proximity mine doesn't have modifiers vs defence types but if it did - it would fallow next ( * X vs armor ..)
////////////////////
////////////////////
///////////////////
Found an example with exactly what you were asking for in the incendiary bug thread
Warp + Warp
10617.187500 632.8125 (impact damage first warp)
250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) * 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.75 = 632.8125 OK
9804.550781 727.734375
250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.15) * 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.75 = 727.734375
---------
Warp base damage 250
1+0.2+0.3 sum of power damage bonuses
(1+0.15) sum of debuff bonuses (pierce)
* 1.5 // warp default vs armor
* 1.5 // rank 6 evolution expose (more damage vs armor)
* 0.75 // only 75% of warp damage is applied at impact ..rest is DOT
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Arkley
Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:15 PM
Does this apply to damage over time as well, or just damage-taken debuffs? For example, Incinerate, Inferno Ammo, the Kishock, etc.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
peddroelm
Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:22 PM (responding to Arkley)
YES
Most debuffs work for all damage types (weapon (impact & dot), melee , power (impact & DOT) & ammo (impact & dot) ) ...
Particular examples are Warp DOT ticks that will get Pierce (*1.15) bonus from first warp cast (debuff applied by warp impact damage) and Biotic Bubble Warp dot ticks that will always benefit from the extra danage to targets in bubble debuff..
Some ( Ex Warp Pierce) will only work for weapon (impact & dot) & power damage (impact & dot) ... So it doesn't work for AP ammo for example... and should not work for incendiary ammo ...
Posted 14 September 2012 - 07:34 PM
Edited by peddroelmz, 17 March 2013 - 03:47 PM
UPDATE - further debuff stack tests ...
Proximity Mines Debuffs from DIFFERENT players WILL STACK ... (go go all GI PARTY)
Warp Debuffs from DIFFERENT players will stack (both damage bonuses and armor weakening)...
Tactical scan will Remove Tactical scan debuff and then activate its on effect ( DOES NOT STACK EVER)
Biotic Bubble debuff DOES NOT STACK (ever)...
Recon Mine debuff DOES NOT STACK (ever)
Cryo Blast Debuffs from DIFFERENT players will stack (both damage bonuses and armor weakening)...
Snap Freeze debuffs from DIFFERENT players will stack (both damage bonuses and armor weakening)...
Annihilation Field from DIFFERENT players will stack
(slow effects not tested yet..)
latest tests with multiple players
(tests done by me with the help of corlist & Vironblood)
Weapon Damage Bonus from the Debuffs - Annihilation Field (15%), Biotic Sphere (up to 25%) , Cryo Blast (up to 25%) , Proximity Mine (20%) , Tactical Scan (up to 32.5%), Snap Freeze (10%) , Warp ( 15%) effects are treated as HEAD SHOT BONUSES (will add to the 2.5 default head shot modifier in case of headshots) and Bonuses From the same debuff type DO NOT STACK (different debuff types will stack additively ) ...
Adding their bonuses in case of headshots with the headshot modifier prevents astronomical damage numbers in case of headshots on debuffed targets ...
Simplified Weapon damage Formula for purpose of explaining ...
K = BaseWeaponDamage * (1 + sum_weapon_bonuses)
(headshot passive, targeting VI consumable, vulnerability VI gear are all weapon bonuses - will add to sum_weapon_damage)
////////
Weapon Damage inflicted on debuffed targets is
K * (HSmod + sum_debuffs_on_target)
HSmod = 1 (no headshot) OR WeaponDefaultHS * (1+pistol_trauma_Add_on_bonus + Marksman_HS_bonus)
WeaponDefaultHS bonus : 2.5 for most weapons capable of headshots (kishock & graal have 3)
Pistol_trauma_Add_on_bonus : using a pistol with the Pistol Cranial Trauma system (0.4 at lvl V)
Marksman_HS_bonus : Selecting the 25% headshot evolution for marksman gives (0.3125) bonus
Debuff bonuses will stack in a similar manner for power , melee & ammo damage minus the HS components as those types of damage cannot score headshots ....
///////////
//////////
Few Numeric examples from the tests that would probably help explain better ...
////////////////
TS + Justicar
Predator X (pistol cranial trauma V) marksman HS + biotic bubble
no weapon damage bonuses
Calculated HS damage
73.5 * (1+0) * (2.5 * (1 + 0.3125 + 0.4) + 0.25) = 333.046875
Measured
333.046875
333.046875
333.046875 ..
///////////////
///////////////
GI + Justicar
Predator X (pistol cranial trauma V) marksman HS + biotic bubble
22.5% WD passive (cloak off hunter mode off)
Proxy Mine 400 base (20% rank 3, 15% networked AI)
---------------------
Calculated Body Shot damage ( Bubble debuff)
73.5 * (1 + 0.225) * (1 + 0.25) = 112.546875
Measured
112.546875
----------------------
Calculated Body Shot damage (Proximity Mine & Bubble debuff)
73.5 * (1 + 0.225) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.2) = 130.554375
Measured
130.554382
-------------------
PM + PM + ... damage (won't go higher) /// PM debuff doesn't stack with itself
Calculated
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2) = 648
Measured
648
--------------
PM + PM + PM + PM + PM....
In bubble
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.25) = 783 //PM debuff doesn't stack with itself
Measured
783
////////////////////////
///////////////////////
//////////////////////
Biotic Buble + Biotic Bubble
Predator X head shot (trauma add-on)
Calculated
73.5 * ((2.5 * (1 + 0.4)) + 0.25) = // 275.625 no double debuff from double bubble
Measured
275.625
////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////
Cryo blast spammed
in bubble
Weapon Phaeston X
27.5% WD passive
--------------
Calculated Body shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 100.215
Measured
100.215027
--------------
Calculated Head shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (2.5 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 200.43
Measured
200.430054
/////////////////////////////
//////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////
Snap Freeze Spammed
in bubble
Weapon Phaeston X
27.5% WD passive
--------------
Calculated Body shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (1 + 0.25 + 0.1) = 90.1935
Measured
90.193481
--------------
Calculated Head shot
52.4 * (1 + 0.275) * (2.5 + 0.25 + 0.1) = 190.4085
Measured
190.408508
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
Will also add an older solo test TS
Measured
1350 - 666.8938 = 683.1062
Calculated
97.7 * (1 + 0.225 + 0.25 + 0.8 + 0.2) * (2.5 + 0.325) = 683.1061
/////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
//////////////////////////
Warp & pistol trauma headshot example (Predator X)
709.6574 - 427.9687 = 281.6887
73.5 * (1 + 0.05) * (2.5 * (1 + 0.4) + 0.15) = 281.68875
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
BjornDaDwarf
Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:06 PM
Are you planning on testing how these debuffs interact with powers? I've been curious about if the stack additively with things like the Armor/Shield evolutions, or if they multiply times those. Would make some sense if they stack additively like they do with the HShot modifier.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
peddroelm
Posted 14 September 2012 - 08:17 PM (responding to BjornDaDwarf)
Here is an example of debuffs interacting with power (similar with weapon damage but without HeadShot mods ..)
Proxy mine damage vs target debuffed by Proximity mine (20%) and Biotic Bubble (25%)
400 is proximity mine base damage
20% damage (rank 3 evolution for proximity mine)
15% power damage from passive
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.15) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.25) = 783
Proximity mine doesn't have modifiers vs defence types but if it did - it would fallow next ( * X vs armor ..)
////////////////////
////////////////////
///////////////////
Found an example with exactly what you were asking for in the incendiary bug thread
Warp + Warp
10617.187500 632.8125 (impact damage first warp)
250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) * 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.75 = 632.8125 OK
9804.550781 727.734375
250 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.15) * 1.5 * 1.5 * 0.75 = 727.734375
---------
Warp base damage 250
1+0.2+0.3 sum of power damage bonuses
(1+0.15) sum of debuff bonuses (pierce)
* 1.5 // warp default vs armor
* 1.5 // rank 6 evolution expose (more damage vs armor)
* 0.75 // only 75% of warp damage is applied at impact ..rest is DOT
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Arkley
Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:15 PM
Does this apply to damage over time as well, or just damage-taken debuffs? For example, Incinerate, Inferno Ammo, the Kishock, etc.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
peddroelm
Posted 14 September 2012 - 09:22 PM (responding to Arkley)
YES
Most debuffs work for all damage types (weapon (impact & dot), melee , power (impact & DOT) & ammo (impact & dot) ) ...
Particular examples are Warp DOT ticks that will get Pierce (*1.15) bonus from first warp cast (debuff applied by warp impact damage) and Biotic Bubble Warp dot ticks that will always benefit from the extra danage to targets in bubble debuff..
Some ( Ex Warp Pierce) will only work for weapon (impact & dot) & power damage (impact & dot) ... So it doesn't work for AP ammo for example... and should not work for incendiary ammo ...