inherit
1130
0
Apr 16, 2024 15:03:09 GMT
431
wickedcool
659
Aug 22, 2016 13:08:32 GMT
August 2016
wickedcool
|
Post by wickedcool on Dec 23, 2019 15:28:29 GMT
Can wardens tell when there’s a fake? allistair talks about the dreams in dao but can they actually tell. Even if there’s no magical feeling I would think that based on their training they would see he’s not(real military people can usually spot a fake)
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 23, 2019 18:00:54 GMT
Can wardens tell when there’s a fake? allistair talks about the dreams in dao but can they actually tell. Even if there’s no magical feeling I would think that based on their training they would see he’s not(real military people can usually spot a fake) Blackwall/Ranier was in the military... He's not some rube wearing warden blue, waving around a sword and randomly shouting about darkspawn. One of the reasons his disguise is effective is because he's a skilled, competent fighter. Grey wardens don't have special combat training.
If it's possible at all, the main method would be whether grey wardens can sense the taint in other wardens. As far as I know, that's never been stated in the game or ancillary materials. However, it seems logical to me that they can.
Aside from that, the only way for a warden to know, or at least suspect, that he's not one of them would be the same as various players who had suspicions before the reveal: some of his dialogue about grey wardens, darkspawn, and the archemon is, well, iffy. In most cases, he's general enough to skirt by, which is clever and also how players like myself never had much reason to think otherwise -- the dialogue is written very well, with the intention to deceive, which is the whole point. Only people looking for more detail might think that certain things don't add up.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Dec 24, 2019 11:59:50 GMT
Hawke's Warden ally should have known immediately, since any Grey Warden can sense that Blackwall isn't tainted. But the devs clearly decided that he is completely oblivious to that detail.
|
|
inherit
1130
0
Apr 16, 2024 15:03:09 GMT
431
wickedcool
659
Aug 22, 2016 13:08:32 GMT
August 2016
wickedcool
|
Post by wickedcool on Dec 24, 2019 16:02:17 GMT
Well they seem more than just factions of warriors united by the taint. Most have uniforms and they must have specialized training etc
Here in the USA you can’t be a beat cop and fake to others that you are state police or fbi and same goes with military (you can’t be in the Air Force and fake you are in the army) to fellow comrades
|
|
inherit
3439
0
Apr 26, 2024 17:19:05 GMT
9,176
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,828
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Dec 26, 2019 16:10:55 GMT
Blackwall doesn't have to keep it up for more than a few minutes, though. Hawke's Warden ally should have known immediately, since any Grey Warden can sense that Blackwall isn't tainted. But the devs clearly decided that he is completely oblivious to that detail. I can't recall any instance of a GW sensing the taint in another GW. OTOH, Ruck could do it. |
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,919 Likes: 24,226
Member is Online
inherit
214
0
Member is Online
Apr 26, 2024 18:43:19 GMT
24,226
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,919
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Dec 26, 2019 16:17:30 GMT
I can't recall any instance of a GW sensing the taint in another GW. OTOH, Ruck could do it. They wouldn't need to sense the taint, only the lack of it in anyone present. |
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Dec 26, 2019 16:45:37 GMT
Blackwall doesn't have to keep it up for more than a few minutes, though. Hawke's Warden ally should have known immediately, since any Grey Warden can sense that Blackwall isn't tainted. But the devs clearly decided that he is completely oblivious to that detail. I can't recall any instance of a GW sensing the taint in another GW. OTOH, Ruck could do it. Because it was never fucking necessary. |
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Dec 27, 2019 10:04:27 GMT
I can't recall any instance of a GW sensing the taint in another GW. OTOH, Ruck could do it. They wouldn't need to sense the taint, only the lack of it in anyone present. But that comes to the same thing, doesn't it? In order for it to be remarkable that the Warden contact can't sense the taint in Blackwall, they'd need to be able to sense it in other Grey Wardens. And I can't remember any instance of a Warden doing that, either, even though Ruck and the crazy Chasind in Lothering both can.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Mar 10, 2024 18:44:44 GMT
3,653
Iddy
3,727
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Dec 27, 2019 12:55:12 GMT
They wouldn't need to sense the taint, only the lack of it in anyone present. But that comes to the same thing, doesn't it? In order for it to be remarkable that the Warden contact can't sense the taint in Blackwall, they'd need to be able to sense it in other Grey Wardens. And I can't remember any instance of a Warden doing that, either, even though Ruck and the crazy Chasind in Lothering both can. Because it was never fucking necessary.
|
|
Dukemon
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Dukemon11
PSN: dukemon09
Posts: 486 Likes: 280
inherit
1139
0
280
Dukemon
486
Aug 22, 2016 22:50:07 GMT
August 2016
dukemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Dukemon11
dukemon09
|
Post by Dukemon on Dec 27, 2019 13:19:29 GMT
the dialogue is written very well, with the intention to deceive, which is the whole point. not even slightly difficult. When you atleast played the prequels from Inquistion you will notice how bad Blackwall is acting a Grey Warden.^^ Just because the writers wanted to fuck the player they ignored each situation where atleast SOMEONE could have lift up Blackwalls bad imitation of a Grey Warden. The dialogues to make the Inquisitor drop his suspicions were very cheap to keep this bluff up until the main plot reach his cap. At the same time they declassed Lelianas know-how. It is very similiar to this "plot twist" from Detroit Become Human, where the player is screwed by the writer that Alice is not an Android... But you do not need any 5 minutes to see Alice is actually an Android...
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Dec 31, 2019 21:22:13 GMT
the dialogue is written very well, with the intention to deceive, which is the whole point. When you atleast played the prequels from Inquistion you will notice how bad Blackwall is acting a Grey Warden.^^ Just because the writers wanted to fuck the player they ignored each situation where atleast SOMEONE could have lift up Blackwalls bad imitation of a Grey Warden. The dialogues to make the Inquisitor drop his suspicions were very cheap to keep this bluff up until the main plot reach his cap. At the same time they declassed Lelianas know-how. It is very similiar to this "plot twist" from Detroit Become Human, where the player is screwed by the writer that Alice is not an Android... But you do not need any 5 minutes to see Alice is actually an Android... Was it? Sure his answers were not exactly satisfactory to more experienced players. His answers on killing archdemons were hedgy, his details on the taint simplified, etc. But really, should a Grey Warden really be telling the Inquisitor the real answers to what is easily considered 'grey warden secrets'? His hedgy-ness could have just been as easily attributed to standard GW 'can't tell the entire truth' secrecy as it was to him being a fake. As far as being an imitator goes, he wasn't half-bad. He was certainly talented enough at it that he was able to make state officials believe it to the point the Inquisition was able to make use of Warden treaties. The only tip I would have for the guy was not to be too awkward when answering warden questions.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,016
sageoflife
1,412
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Jan 1, 2020 4:14:44 GMT
It seems like most, if not all of the surviving Orlesian Wardens were younger members who had never actually met Blackwall personally.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,607 Likes: 18,404
inherit
2309
0
Apr 26, 2024 18:09:14 GMT
18,404
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,607
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 1, 2020 4:41:18 GMT
Can wardens tell when there’s a fake? allistair talks about the dreams in dao but can they actually tell. Even if there’s no magical feeling I would think that based on their training they would see he’s not(real military people can usually spot a fake) Blackwall/Ranier was in the military... He's not some rube wearing warden blue, waving around a sword and randomly shouting about darkspawn. One of the reasons his disguise is effective is because he's a skilled, competent fighter. Grey wardens don't have special combat training.
If it's possible at all, the main method would be whether grey wardens can sense the taint in other wardens. As far as I know, that's never been stated in the game or ancillary materials. However, it seems logical to me that they can.
Aside from that, the only way for a warden to know, or at least suspect, that he's not one of them would be the same as various players who had suspicions before the reveal: some of his dialogue about grey wardens, darkspawn, and the archemon is, well, iffy. In most cases, he's general enough to skirt by, which is clever and also how players like myself never had much reason to think otherwise -- the dialogue is written very well, with the intention to deceive, which is the whole point. Only people looking for more detail might think that certain things don't add up.
Actually I think the ycan sense th etaint in other wardens because if you bring Ander with you on the deep roads expedition in DA2 with Carver/Bethany he uses his abilities to help track them down in order to asve the siblinmg at the end of that quest. He can't distinguish whether they aer darkspawn or warden though only that they carry the taint. But he knew that the wardens were operating in that area however. They probably can't tell that Blackwall is lying though mainly because of their own compromised condition as the calling makes it harder for the wardens to use those abilties as I believe the warden tells you when you meet them with Hawke in DAI. Otherwise they could probably have figured out that he wasn't one so in a sense Blackwall got lucky there
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,607 Likes: 18,404
inherit
2309
0
Apr 26, 2024 18:09:14 GMT
18,404
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,607
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 1, 2020 4:44:05 GMT
Hawke's Warden ally should have known immediately, since any Grey Warden can sense that Blackwall isn't tainted. But the devs clearly decided that he is completely oblivious to that detail. Ordinarily yes but remember like all the other wardens Hawke's ally is compromised due to the calling
|
|
inherit
11380
0
2,084
adonniel
648
Dec 17, 2019 15:10:19 GMT
December 2019
adonniel
|
Post by adonniel on Jan 1, 2020 4:44:18 GMT
Blackwall did know the first step of the ritual to give him a margin of credibility. He had been asked by a real Warden to bring him darkspawn blood. It makes sense to me that GWs should be able to sense each other since they can sense darkspaw and bear the same taint. However, this brings up another question, how come it was such a pain for the Wardens to catch Stroud/Loghain/Alistair if they could sense each other? And how far is the detection 'range?' providing there is one. Riordan had been able to sense darkspawn generals in the entire Denerim, but he was an elderly Warden. I'm also getting an impression, the more experienced the Warden the more attuned they are to the taint. It might also be personal, some can block and some can sense more than others.
|
|
sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,607 Likes: 18,404
inherit
2309
0
Apr 26, 2024 18:09:14 GMT
18,404
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
10,607
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 1, 2020 4:47:47 GMT
Blackwall did know the first step of the ritual to give him a margin of credibility. He had been asked by a real Warden to bring him darkspawn blood. It makes sense to me that GWs should be able to sense each other since they can sense darkspaw and bear the same taint. However, this brings up another question, how come it was such a pain for the Wardens to catch Stroud/Loghain/Alistair if they could sense each other? And how far is the detection 'range?' providing there is one. Riordan had been able to sense darkspawn generals in the entire Denerim, but he was an elderly Warden. I'm also getting an impression, the more experienced the Warden the more attuned they are to the taint. It might also be personal, some can block and some can sense more than others. Again the calling I suspec tdisrupts these abilities based on wha tw eaer told by Hawke's ally and I'm guessin git makes it harder once the calling kicks in.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jan 2, 2020 6:27:54 GMT
I can't recall any instance of a GW sensing the taint in another GW. OTOH, Ruck could do it. It comes up briefly in DA2 if you ask for Anders help getting Bethany/Carver to the Wardens;
Anders: Hmm. Hawke: What wrong?
Anders: I think they're nearby... *Warden-sense tingling*
Anders: Or it could be Darkspawn! While it did turn out to be Darkspawn that Anders was sensing, Stroud's Wardens were revealed to be hot on their tail, so Anders wasn't exactly wrong about thinking it could have been them he was sensing.
That Anders doesn't know whether he's sensing a Warden or Darkspawn either suggests that both might "ping" a Warden's radar, but it's easier (or more useful) to sense the Darkspawn because they have more corruption in their system than Wardens do.
---
Based on how the False Calling in Inquisition is described, this might have disrupted their "Warden-sense" by forcing it to constantly respond as if Darkspawn (or an Old God) were nearby, thereby effectively jamming their radar. In their compromised state, they'd have no way of being able to sense whether or not Blackwall was truly a Warden.
|
|
