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Post by Sartoz on Jan 9, 2020 14:01:44 GMT
Now don't byte my azz.
But I came across these two tidbits.
(1)
"... Battlestate Games, the studio responsible for the popular Escape From Tarkov, said it has no plans to add women as playable characters to its fictional first-person military shooter. The reason, according to the developer, is because women require too many animations and call for "a huge amount of work" to implement into the game."
(2) For Assassin's Creed Unity: "... Had female characters been included, Ubisoft would have had to "redo a lot of animation, a lot of costumes." In effect, "It would have doubled the work on those things. And I mean it's something the team really wanted, but we had to make a decision... It's unfortunate, but it's a reality of game development."
Bio of course appeared to have no such qualms with DA:I. However, today we live in "live-service" type games whose purpose, imo, is to reduce development costs upfront and monetize at the back-end. Now, I know little about the actual costs of developing a male cinematic lead vs a female lead. Personally, I believe there is some exaggeration in there, somewhere and it would be a disastrous move from Bio, imo, to have zero female leads. Can one imagine the uproar in certain communities?
Nevertheless, it's a possibility. Bio desperately needs a win here. But, given the past two games, controlling cost development is also a major factor, especially if mgt continues its "proven" past performance. I give you Anthem's character design option(s) as a solution to this little conundrum. Encase every one in armour and voilà, problem solved. So, aside from voice acting, there is no female character as such...
Thoughts?
Personally, I'd love to see Harding.
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 9, 2020 15:11:26 GMT
Is this bait? It looks like bait.
BioWare hasn’t been bothered by this sort of thing before and I don’t see why they would now
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Post by Fredward on Jan 9, 2020 15:27:02 GMT
What.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 9, 2020 15:42:15 GMT
A character artist chimed on this yesterday on twitter. It's a good read, illustrating where the costs really are. For Dragon Age, I don't expect anything to change on the gender front. I could see them cutting races and/or having just one VA for each gender if budget was an issue. But it's not Anthem, and they can't cram everyone into bulky exosuits.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 9, 2020 15:46:47 GMT
Um, there has been a female option for protagonist in every single Dragon Age game to date. I can't see them altering that at this point. Hell, I think that option has been there for every single Bioware game since Baldur's gate! Even if other options were removed.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 9, 2020 15:50:22 GMT
Is this bait? It looks like bait. BioWare hasn’t been bothered by this sort of thing before and I don’t see why they would now
Thank you for confirming Bio's past behaviour. Though, you must admit that Anthem solved that male/female cinematics quite well with 1st person in the hub and armour outside.
It's quite possible that Bio will do the same for DA4. It avoids the messy romance bruha if romance options "are missing". The CC is simplified and animations as well. I would not put it past Bio, if significant changes are made to DA4. Grognards, of course, want to see no changes but Bio was never bothered by making changes to game mechanics, now were they? Tinkering is part and parcel of artistic creations.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 9, 2020 16:01:44 GMT
A character artist chimed on this yesterday on twitter. It's a good read, illustrating where the costs really are. For Dragon Age, I don't expect anything to change on the gender front. I could see them cutting races and/or having just one VA for each gender if budget was an issue. But it's not Anthem, and they can't cram everyone into bulky exosuits.
LOL,
Two companies giving marketing BS (though their games had no F leads) as well as Bio. Can't believe a word they say.
Anyway, my personal opinion is two female leads, an Elf and a human.
And look at all the new educational info we got regarding cinematic costs.
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Post by Little Bengel on Jan 9, 2020 16:36:32 GMT
...this definitely looks like some bait.
And not even the good kind.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 9, 2020 17:49:15 GMT
If there is one thing I am certain of with DA4, it’s that there will be the option to play a male or female lead.
Plus you know a thread is bait when one of the articles is six years old from a company that has obviously changed their position since then.
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Post by Fredward on Jan 9, 2020 17:56:05 GMT
If there is one thing I am certain of with DA4, it’s that there will be the option to play a male or female lead. Plus you know a thread is bait when one of the articles is six years old from a company that has obviously changed their position since then. And the other one is an indie Russian company with seemingly no backlog.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 9, 2020 19:53:07 GMT
This seems very strange. For the animation budget argument to fly, there'd need to also be no female NPCs. Is DA4 now a Martin Scorsese film...?
Besides, pretty sure even DAI only had unique female walk and run animations, didn't they? My female inquisitors certainly sat the same and "strode in" the same (in cutscenes). Combat was the same, hand motions. 2 more animations for allowing female lead characters seems a pretty poor hook to hang removal of female leads on.
That being said, female characters don't actually require different animations at all. Origins is my favourite DA game and the female Warden walked and moved exactly the same as the male. I wouldn't be happy about it, but if these animations are so costly that the choice is double up or go male (or female) only, then double up is the only choice.
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Post by samhain444 on Jan 9, 2020 21:56:00 GMT
There is 100% chance that the next Dragon Age game will feature both a male and female lead to choose from...
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Post by themikefest on Jan 9, 2020 22:13:39 GMT
What? No female lead? Preorder cancelled
If that were to happen, never, what would the explanation be. You don't need to know, and there's not enough time to explain.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 9, 2020 22:16:37 GMT
(2) For Assassin's Creed Unity: "... Had female characters been included, Ubisoft would have had to "redo a lot of animation, a lot of costumes." In effect, "It would have doubled the work on those things. And I mean it's something the team really wanted, but we had to make a decision... It's unfortunate, but it's a reality of game development." This doesn't even make any sense because Syndicate came out less than a year later (Unity was Nov. 2014, Syndicate was Oct. 2015) with a female protagonist (Evie Frye). In addition, the studio that made Unity (Ubisoft Montreal) had been working on it since 2010, while Ubisoft Quebec had only a year to work on Syndicate. Also, Unity shipped with multiplayer and - IIRC - there was a playable female character. I'm not even making a judgement call on whether Unity needed a female protagonist or not. It just seems like weird statement given the timing of Syndicate. EDIT: This thread made me think back to this Eurogamer story regarding the publisher-finding the studio behind Remember Me had. www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-19-why-publishers-refuse-games-such-as-remember-me-because-of-their-female-protagonists#comments
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Post by Serza on Jan 9, 2020 22:40:55 GMT
It's a Sartoz thread.
Benefit of the doubt here, I say. There is definitely a non-zero chance this thread is an honest question/debate.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jan 9, 2020 23:12:55 GMT
Come to think of it...
What about having a female- only player character who is race-locked to be a non-human?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 9, 2020 23:18:16 GMT
What? No female lead? Preorder cancelled
If that were to happen, never, what would the explanation be. You don't need to know, and there's not enough time to explain.
I don't think they'd not have the option of a female protag either most of EA's games now have female options even NFS Heat does as I'm playing it as a female racer. If they did abandon the idea of having it just be one gender then I'd likely not buy the game. As I like playing as both in different playthrough' sand mixing things up.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 10, 2020 2:58:24 GMT
Assassin's Creed Unity? From several years ago? ...Isn't the latest game from that franchise Assassin's Creed Odyssey and features both male and female protag??? And "Escape from Tarkov" - a small'ish games from small developer? Oh Sartoz, you are reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaching with this one Anyway, I could see a Dragon Age game/DLC following a fixed character, since we've already had a DLC for DA where we play one (Leliana's Story), but it's unlikely DA4 won't have at least a choice of gender.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 10, 2020 4:45:12 GMT
Lazy bait, not even the fresh kind. So disappointing makes my face tired.
Trying to compare BioWare which has a very long history of having both Male and Female protagonist options for their characters. I think the exception is that Sonic game. Your game choices as "evidence" are problematic all on their own too. A Russian developer that has had their game in beta for years and an Assassin's Creed game that has had three sequels since its release.
Yep. Spoiled bait.
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 10, 2020 7:49:01 GMT
I can’t see them cutting female option but could easily see them cutting range of race choice.
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Post by Ieldra on Jan 10, 2020 12:15:31 GMT
Come to think of it...
What about having a female- only player character who is race-locked to be a non-human? I wouldn't play it. Female only = OK, male only = disappointing but still OK, non-human only = Not OK.
Having said that, a choice of male or female is a selling point and I like to play both, so a game which is "disappointing but still OK" may still end up unplayed because another game, featuring things I like equally in anything else, gives me the options.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 10, 2020 12:23:08 GMT
I can’t see them cutting female option but could easily see them cutting range of race choice. Yeah I think it's more likely they'd cut races to save time and cost rather than genders tbh
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 10, 2020 21:59:22 GMT
Snip That being said, female characters don't actually require different animations at all. Snip
Sorry, buddy, but I disagree.
We had this discussion in the old BIO BSN.... if you recall. It started with the exaggerated hip movements of certain female NPC + female Hawke in DA2.
Anyway, female Quizzy sitting down in the 'ol throne with legs spread (as per male posture) somehow is not the same. To me, there is a requirement to pay attention to details.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 10, 2020 22:14:33 GMT
I can’t see them cutting female option but could easily see them cutting range of race choice.
Absolutely. DA:I went overboard in this area.
And that, I believe, was an attempt to appease to all of the DA fans' personal favorites plus add new sex interests. Bull for example, had no reason to be there 'cause it broke canon (imo... and coming from playing DA2 Bull's behaviour was totally opposite of a Qunari). That was bizarro. Another that brought nothing to the game is Krem. yeah, he/she has a personal story but what has that got to do with the main story? No one would miss Krem if the "cut" was made or made an impact to the game.
Lice-Service may come into play at some point down the road. Start with a few and add them later as DLCs or whatever their called nowadays. In that way we can continue playing new adventures after the game is over.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 10, 2020 22:53:39 GMT
Snip That being said, female characters don't actually require different animations at all. Snip
Sorry, buddy, but I disagree.
We had this discussion in the old BIO BSN.... if you recall. It started with the exaggerated hip movements of certain female NPC + female Hawke in DA2.
Anyway, female Quizzy sitting down in the 'ol throne with legs spread (as per male posture) somehow is not the same. To me, there is a requirement to pay attention to details.
BioWare does have that track record of just using the male for the female animations with Mass Effect. At the same time they aren't creating the game from the dirt up like they were with Inquisition either. The comments were one of the reasons for the reset is they were going to use what they have developed for Anthem and developing from there which means they already have a lot of human animations created. Different races would need to be created probably from scratch. Edit: Cannot type today.
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