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Post by pessimistpanda on May 23, 2020 8:45:41 GMT
Ultimately, whether or not a story is "finished" is totally arbitrary. The story "finishes" when the storyteller stops telling it.
Video games as an entire medium are notorious for leaving questions unanswered, or hinting at a continuation, only for the series to end because the creators lost interest or the first entry wasn't successful. Getting emotionally attached to characters and plotlines is, frankly, a mistake, even if a few people are ultimately vindicated, in this one instance, by the return of Solas and the Inquisitor.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 23, 2020 9:53:35 GMT
Ultimately, whether or not a story is "finished" is totally arbitrary. The story "finishes" when the storyteller stops telling it. Video games as an entire medium are notorious for leaving questions unanswered, or hinting at a continuation, only for the series to end because the creators lost interest or the first entry wasn't successful. Getting emotionally attached to characters and plotlines is, frankly, a mistake, even if a few people are ultimately vindicated, in this one instance, by the return of Solas and the Inquisitor. Well what's the point if we don't get emotionally attached to characters and plotlines? Why would I even consume the material? I know you write. Don't you want people to get attached to your characters? To care what happens in the story? To be so invested that when the current book ends with dangling plot threads that they're excited for the next release?
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 23, 2020 12:09:50 GMT
Ultimately, whether or not a story is "finished" is totally arbitrary. The story "finishes" when the storyteller stops telling it. Video games as an entire medium are notorious for leaving questions unanswered, or hinting at a continuation, only for the series to end because the creators lost interest or the first entry wasn't successful. Getting emotionally attached to characters and plotlines is, frankly, a mistake, even if a few people are ultimately vindicated, in this one instance, by the return of Solas and the Inquisitor. Well what's the point if we don't get emotionally attached to characters and plotlines? Why would I even consume the material? I know you write. Don't you want people to get attached to your characters? To care what happens in the story? To be so invested that when the current book ends with dangling plot threads that they're excited for the next release?
Personally, I don't like cliffhangers, and I don't read many sci-fi or fantasy books anymore, specifically because writers in the genre insist on producing massive series, and I don't want to invest that time. I vastly prefer stand-alone novels, and there are very few authors for whom I am willing to commit to a series. A lot of my enjoymeny comes from a satisfying conclusion. Essentially, I play the game so that it will *end*, and while Trespasser arguably leaves things unresolved, it doesn't follow that the Inquisitor *must* be the one to resolve them, and I would rather develop a new protagonist and experience new characters. Especially as I find the Inquisitor particularly dull. But what attracts me to new fantasy and sci-fi books/shows/movies/games is unique world concepts, with plot being more of a secondary concern (though I have partucular preference for stories with a more personal focus), and characters aren't really a factor at all, mainly because I have no interest in the heterosexual romance that usually dominates the character arcs, and secondarily because I know all the archetypes. In my own writing, what comes first is the idea for the world. I only ever even heard of BioWare and Dragon Age when I made the decision to search for videogames with gay male protagonists. If it weren't for that, it would have slipped completely beneath my notice. I prefer settings that are far more fantastical/extreme, and I play a lot of JRPGs because they have a wider variety of fantastical settings. From the outside looking in, Dragon Age didn't have much to distinguish it from other WRPGS, which almost all lean heavily on the well-explored tropes of typical 'Western' fantasy. The parts of the Dragon Age world that I find most interesting are the Blight, the Titans, and the few vague hints about the world beyond the continent of Thedas. The whole Veil/physical vs spiritual world thing is tapped out, and I'm just not interested in a story about protecting it. As a player, the most interesting thing the writers could do to the Veil now is get rid of it permanently, that would make things interesting. The pre-veil world that Solas describes sounds much more in-line with my personal taste.
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Highwayman667
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 23, 2020 15:58:10 GMT
That's as sure a sign as any that they're done with that plot point. You absolutely do not know this... ...and you know it I think they will take on the issue if they decide to set a game on Southern Thedas again. The storyline could be tackled again, depending on wether you eventually supported the Circle or the College and then moving forward from there. Aside from that, what is exactly the problem with bringing closure to a storyline ? It's okay for things to end.
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Post by andydandymandy on May 23, 2020 21:36:07 GMT
Well what's the point if we don't get emotionally attached to characters and plotlines? Why would I even consume the material? I know you write. Don't you want people to get attached to your characters? To care what happens in the story? To be so invested that when the current book ends with dangling plot threads that they're excited for the next release?
Personally, I don't like cliffhangers, and I don't read many sci-fi or fantasy books anymore, specifically because writers in the genre insist on producing massive series, and I don't want to invest that time. I vastly prefer stand-alone novels, and there are very few authors for whom I am willing to commit to a series. A lot of my enjoymeny comes from a satisfying conclusion. Essentially, I play the game so that it will *end*, and while Trespasser arguably leaves things unresolved, it doesn't follow that the Inquisitor *must* be the one to resolve them, and I would rather develop a new protagonist and experience new characters. Especially as I find the Inquisitor particularly dull. But what attracts me to new fantasy and sci-fi books/shows/movies/games is unique world concepts, with plot being more of a secondary concern (though I have partucular preference for stories with a more personal focus), and characters aren't really a factor at all, mainly because I have no interest in the heterosexual romance that usually dominates the character arcs, and secondarily because I know all the archetypes. In my own writing, what comes first is the idea for the world. I only ever even heard of BioWare and Dragon Age when I made the decision to search for videogames with gay male protagonists. If it weren't for that, it would have slipped completely beneath my notice. I prefer settings that are far more fantastical/extreme, and I play a lot of JRPGs because they have a wider variety of fantastical settings. From the outside looking in, Dragon Age didn't have much to distinguish it from other WRPGS, which almost all lean heavily on the well-explored tropes of typical 'Western' fantasy. The parts of the Dragon Age world that I find most interesting are the Blight, the Titans, and the few vague hints about the world beyond the continent of Thedas. The whole Veil/physical vs spiritual world thing is tapped out, and I'm just not interested in a story about protecting it. As a player, the most interesting thing the writers could do to the Veil now is get rid of it permanently, that would make things interesting. The pre-veil world that Solas describes sounds much more in-line with my personal taste. Once the Veil comes down, things like the Blight, the Titans, etc become a nonissue. Because the world then becomes a post-apocalyptic wasteland where untold numbers of people are dead and the survivors are dealing with loose spirits and the Evanuris or whatever, there is nothing left to explore. Everything you want to see is literally wiped away.
You are basically asking for the end of the franchise.
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Post by Nightscrawl on May 23, 2020 22:20:19 GMT
Once the Veil comes down, things like the Blight, the Titans, etc become a nonissue. Because the world then becomes a post-apocalyptic wasteland where untold numbers of people are dead and the survivors are dealing with loose spirits and the Evanuris or whatever, there is nothing left to explore. Everything you want to see is literally wiped away.
You are basically asking for the end of the franchise. I don't want to see the veil come down, but it's not like there aren't game series built around post-apocalyptic wastelands, like Fallout.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 23, 2020 22:23:33 GMT
Once the Veil comes down, things like the Blight, the Titans, etc become a nonissue. Because the world then becomes a post-apocalyptic wasteland where untold numbers of people are dead and the survivors are dealing with loose spirits and the Evanuris or whatever, there is nothing left to explore. Everything you want to see is literally wiped away.
You are basically asking for the end of the franchise. I don't want to see the veil come down, but it's not like there aren't game series built around post-apocalyptic wastelands, like Fallout. In a way, Dragon Age is a series built around a post-apocalyptic wasteland since that's how ancient elves see it after their world was destroyed.
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Posts: 285 Likes: 685
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Post by andydandymandy on May 23, 2020 22:32:04 GMT
I don't want to see the veil come down, but it's not like there aren't game series built around post-apocalyptic wastelands, like Fallout. In a way, Dragon Age is a series built around a post-apocalyptic wasteland since that's how ancient elves see it after their world was destroyed. Destroying the veil isn't going to bring back the world Solas lost. Its not like we would ever get to play in the world Solas came from, unless they make some kind of prequel.
And unless they did some kind of time jump, it will take a long time for a post-veil world to evolve to where it would be more then just a post-apocalyptic wasteland that is in utter ruins. If you want that, fine (I guess). But its not really a Dragon Age game at that point. You've basically rebooted the entire franchise and made it something else.
Be careful what you wish for, is all I am saying.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 23, 2020 22:35:16 GMT
In a way, Dragon Age is a series built around a post-apocalyptic wasteland since that's how ancient elves see it after their world was destroyed. Destroying the veil isn't going to bring back the world Solas lost. Its not like we would ever get to play in the world Solas came from, unless they make some kind of prequel.
And unless they did some kind of time jump, it will take a long time for a post-veil world to evolve to where it would be more then just a post-apocalyptic wasteland that is in utter ruins. If you want that, fine (I guess). But its not really a Dragon Age game at that point. You've basically rebooted the entire franchise and made it something else.
Be careful what you wish for, is all I am saying.
Oh, I agree. I was just saying from a certain point of view we already have a post-apocalyptic game in Dragon Age.
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Post by Buckeldemon on May 24, 2020 2:13:54 GMT
You are basically asking for the end of the franchise. Uhm, that depends. Quite a lot. Sure, there are certain things that might be seen as "iconic" or "unique" properties of a given franchise (How many people bitched that DA2 wasn't another Blight back in the day? I bet there were quite some...) and solving (or ending) certain driving conflicts of the setting may remove player investment, but on the other hand, if one aims to create a number of "impactful choices", well, some impact should be felt, right? Resetting over and over or keeping too much of a status quo might kill player investment just as quickly. "Yeah, let's have yet another asshole mage try to blow up the world, rally the Holy Warrior of (ass)Holyness, smite the mage in HIS name, be done and call it a day. Chantry wins, yeaaaaah. Then let's go on the web and trash them robe fans with yet another magick=evuuuul example." A fair bit of hyperbole here, but that would be a kind of trend which gets old for me. And there we have it: players with different explanations and expectations of what a setting means to them.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 24, 2020 7:14:08 GMT
Once the Veil comes down, things like the Blight, the Titans, etc become a nonissue. Because the world then becomes a post-apocalyptic wasteland where untold numbers of people are dead and the survivors are dealing with loose spirits and the Evanuris or whatever, there is nothing left to explore. Everything you want to see is literally wiped away. You are basically asking for the end of the franchise. First of all, I have no particular problem with Thedas becoming a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and there's no reason that would have to mean the end of the franchise. Plenty of franchises START with post-apocalyptic wastelands. But actually, you're making massive assumptions based on extremely vague statements made by Solas, who is himself making massive assumptions. He can't possibly know what will actually happen when the Veil is brought down, because he has never brought it down before. Just because he talks like he knows what he's talking about doesn't mean anything. He has no actual proof to back up his conjecture, only his own arrogance.
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TabithaTH
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 498 Likes: 891
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Post by TabithaTH on May 24, 2020 8:17:29 GMT
I wouldn't want it for the main series, but a spin-off set in a magical post-apocalypse setting (whatever the cause) could be an interesting spin.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on May 24, 2020 13:32:25 GMT
I don't know guys, in the one bit of info we have on the next game (the Dread Wolf Rises mural), shit is already on fire.
We may be too late.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 24, 2020 14:24:10 GMT
I don't know guys, in the one bit of info we have on the next game (the Dread Wolf Rises mural), shit is already on fire. We may be too late. So the whole final decision and scenes in DAI were just mocking us then?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on May 24, 2020 14:29:31 GMT
I don't know guys, in the one bit of info we have on the next game (the Dread Wolf Rises mural), shit is already on fire. We may be too late. So the whole final decision and scenes in DAI were just mocking us then? I'm not saying it's for sure going to be the case, or even that I want it to happen. Only that it isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 24, 2020 14:53:51 GMT
I don't know guys, in the one bit of info we have on the next game (the Dread Wolf Rises mural), shit is already on fire. We may be too late. So the whole final decision and scenes in DAI were just mocking us then? They never mattered in any DA game before.
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Post by NotN7 on May 24, 2020 17:28:27 GMT
So the whole final decision and scenes in DAI were just mocking us then? They never mattered in any DA game before. The final scene could be the catalyst as to why were off to war the big question (as I see it ) is who's the bad guys Qunari or tiventer if not both.
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andydandymandy
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Posts: 285 Likes: 685
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Post by andydandymandy on May 24, 2020 22:33:59 GMT
Once the Veil comes down, things like the Blight, the Titans, etc become a nonissue. Because the world then becomes a post-apocalyptic wasteland where untold numbers of people are dead and the survivors are dealing with loose spirits and the Evanuris or whatever, there is nothing left to explore. Everything you want to see is literally wiped away. You are basically asking for the end of the franchise. First of all, I have no particular problem with Thedas becoming a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and there's no reason that would have to mean the end of the franchise. Plenty of franchises START with post-apocalyptic wastelands. But actually, you're making massive assumptions based on extremely vague statements made by Solas, who is himself making massive assumptions. He can't possibly know what will actually happen when the Veil is brought down, because he has never brought it down before. Just because he talks like he knows what he's talking about doesn't mean anything. He has no actual proof to back up his conjecture, only his own arrogance. What story do you think they are going to be able to tell about the Veil coming down that doesn't involve either trying to undo Solas's actions and restore the status quo or pick up the broken pieces and rebuild? Either way, that high fantasy setting you want would likely not be there.
Its a world changer to the point of being a total reboot for the franchise. You are basically asking for the devs to scrap everything and start the world over.
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Post by pessimistpanda on May 25, 2020 5:00:54 GMT
First of all, I have no particular problem with Thedas becoming a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and there's no reason that would have to mean the end of the franchise. Plenty of franchises START with post-apocalyptic wastelands. But actually, you're making massive assumptions based on extremely vague statements made by Solas, who is himself making massive assumptions. He can't possibly know what will actually happen when the Veil is brought down, because he has never brought it down before. Just because he talks like he knows what he's talking about doesn't mean anything. He has no actual proof to back up his conjecture, only his own arrogance. What story do you think they are going to be able to tell about the Veil coming down that doesn't involve either trying to undo Solas's actions and restore the status quo or pick up the broken pieces and rebuild? Either way, that high fantasy setting you want would likely not be there.
Its a world changer to the point of being a total reboot for the franchise. You are basically asking for the devs to scrap everything and start the world over.
Again, you're making an assumption. But it wouldn't bother me if they did do what you're saying. The Titans and the blight/taint intrigue me, but I'm not going to weep bitter tears if they get erased. But I don't think they are, I'm pretty sure Titans and taint existed prior to the Veil, and will exist after.
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 25, 2020 15:40:06 GMT
I really don't like this whole thing about Solas and the Veil. Not only is Solas a rather laughable character for a villain but the whole thing... has been done already with the Blight and the Breach.
Strangely though I feel optimistic because I trust Bioware... I just hate that we're using this franchise to do world-ending stories... again. Specially when, as time passed, people found the worth behind Dragon Age 2, a game which is primarily about the story of an ilegal immigrant and his/her family trying to survive their exodus in a completely foreign land.
We should probably review the lessons we learned from Baldur's Gate 2 and Planescape Torment: sometimes a personal story is more impactful and has greater stakes than a story about the third time the world is about to end.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Posts: 635 Likes: 1,653
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Post by Frost on May 25, 2020 16:10:56 GMT
I really don't like this whole thing about Solas and the Veil. Not only is Solas a rather laughable character for a villain but the whole thing... has been done already with the Blight and the Breach. Solas will remember that...
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 25, 2020 16:18:28 GMT
I really don't like this whole thing about Solas and the Veil. Not only is Solas a rather laughable character for a villain but the whole thing... has been done already with the Blight and the Breach. Solas will remember that... Telltale Games: Dragon Age
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thebobzilla84
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Posts: 241 Likes: 179
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thebobzilla84
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thebobzilla84
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by thebobzilla84 on May 26, 2020 6:22:56 GMT
I really don't like this whole thing about Solas and the Veil. Not only is Solas a rather laughable character for a villain but the whole thing... has been done already with the Blight and the Breach. Strangely though I feel optimistic because I trust Bioware... I just hate that we're using this franchise to do world-ending stories... again. Specially when, as time passed, people found the worth behind Dragon Age 2, a game which is primarily about the story of an ilegal immigrant and his/her family trying to survive their exodus in a completely foreign land. We should probably review the lessons we learned from Baldur's Gate 2 and Planescape Torment: sometimes a personal story is more impactful and has greater stakes than a story about the third time the world is about to end. Dragon Age 2 was a good game but it was a railed rpg with "choice" yeah right Hawke was just a glorified observer with no real impact on the story with very little in regards to actual choice except who you romance i guess but the rest is on rails like a *****.You couldn't stop Anders or save Leandra like I said Hawke was just a observer.
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Highwayman667
N3
"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 522 Likes: 722
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 26, 2020 14:56:11 GMT
Dragon Age 2 was a good game but it was a railed rpg with "choice" yeah right Hawke was just a glorified observer with no real impact on the story with very little in regards to actual choice except who you romance i guess but the rest is on rails like a *****.You couldn't stop Anders or save Leandra like I said Hawke was just a observer. Those are different issues though. The scale and size of a story and the results of the player's efforts. What I like about the story of Dragon Age 2 is that it's a more intimate, grounded type of story. Hawke is not out to save the world from destruction and... *falls asleep*... Hawke is out to save their friends, their family and most of all: to save their life. Thus, I understand your point about the extent of the choices but realistically speaking, why should any of us have the right to stop Anders or save Leandra ? A lot of the times people are unable to stop terrorist attacks in the real world, many times people are completely incapable of saving their own family from gruesome death. I think that, despite what could probably be a larger impact on the story, the latter also tried to through a more realistic and sincere path: you can't always save everyone.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2020 15:30:45 GMT
Dragon Age 2 was a good game but it was a railed rpg with "choice" yeah right Hawke was just a glorified observer with no real impact on the story with very little in regards to actual choice except who you romance i guess but the rest is on rails like a *****.You couldn't stop Anders or save Leandra like I said Hawke was just a observer. Those are different issues though. The scale and size of a story and the results of the player's efforts. What I like about the story of Dragon Age 2 is that it's a more intimate, grounded type of story. Hawke is not out to save the world from destruction and... *falls asleep*... Hawke is out to save their friends, their family and most of all: to save their life. Thus, I understand your point about the extent of the choices but realistically speaking, why should any of us have the right to stop Anders or save Leandra ? A lot of the times people are unable to stop terrorist attacks in the real world, many times people are completely incapable of saving their own family from gruesome death. I think that, despite what could probably be a larger impact on the story, the latter also tried to through a more realistic and sincere path: you can't always save everyone. Theres a difference between not being able to stop something and being forced to fail. With Anders, why can’t we confront him about it? If we tried having him arrested or killed and he makes himself escape not to be seen again until he commits his mass murder that’s fine, but not being able to do anything is not. With Leandra, why do we have to wait until night to start the search? Who would give a serial killer an extra day with their mom before beginning the search?
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