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Dreadnaw Rising
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Post by phoray on May 7, 2017 2:28:18 GMT
Found this: linkText under spoiler: Much is made about the “Only Three Mages Per Clan” Retcon in DAI. And I’m with them there. But there’s another retcon to elven lore that doesn’t get talked about enough, and I wanted to address it here.
Try to romance Sera as a Human Noble, and she makes this remark:
Sera: You tell me [if it’s a problem], Lady Trevelyan. It’s your people who always get a hair up the arse about it. ‘Oh, the Inquisitor took an elf. Of course she did. She’s taking advantage of… some rubbish, I don’t even know.’
HOLD IT! That’s some retcon bullshit right there. “Oh the Inquisitor took an elf. She’s taking advantage of…” No. I do not believe for one second that random Thedas human nobles (exceptions notwithstanding) would object to a fellow noble taking an elven lover out of concern for the elf’s well-being.
This is the same universe where Vaughan Kendells openly and frequently kidnapped, raped and killed elven women with the guards’ and his fellow lordlings’ help; where Kelder Vanard kidnapped, beat, (implied-raped) and killed elven children with law enforcement on his side; where a Hawke who moved Merrill in with him/her created a HUGE scandal in Hightown because taking an elf as a lover rather than a servant threatened their security in their own power…
Where Celene’s relationship with her elven handmaiden Briala had to be kept a tight secret because if word got out it that the empress had an elven lover it would cost her the throne; and she tried to cover this shameful secret by burning an entire alienage down to show the other nobles she “wasn’t soft with elves.” (Of course, DAI did away with this by having Celene openly declare Briala her lover at the Ball if you reunite them, with all the nobles instantly accepting it and start trying to learn elven to curry favor…)
Most humans, especially human nobles, in past games and books were shown not to give a FIG about elven well-being, so this sudden “human nobles object to another human noble taking an elf because they’re concerned about the power imbalance and consent issues” is all kinds of retcon bullshit.
Most likely they’d get a hair up the arse about it because, “She’s soiling her pretty clean hands and/or pure noble blood with some filthy elf!” Or “She can’t take an elf as a lover and treat her like people. Then other elves will get this idea in their heads that they’re people too!” I thought it was interesting. I haven't romanced Sera yet so I hadn't heard this dialogue.
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yourfunnyuncle
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 7588
Posts: 722 Likes: 1,704
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Oct 10, 2020 23:39:17 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on May 7, 2017 14:18:43 GMT
Found this: linkText under spoiler: Much is made about the “Only Three Mages Per Clan” Retcon in DAI. And I’m with them there. But there’s another retcon to elven lore that doesn’t get talked about enough, and I wanted to address it here.
Try to romance Sera as a Human Noble, and she makes this remark:
Sera: You tell me [if it’s a problem], Lady Trevelyan. It’s your people who always get a hair up the arse about it. ‘Oh, the Inquisitor took an elf. Of course she did. She’s taking advantage of… some rubbish, I don’t even know.’
HOLD IT! That’s some retcon bullshit right there. “Oh the Inquisitor took an elf. She’s taking advantage of…” No. I do not believe for one second that random Thedas human nobles (exceptions notwithstanding) would object to a fellow noble taking an elven lover out of concern for the elf’s well-being.
This is the same universe where Vaughan Kendells openly and frequently kidnapped, raped and killed elven women with the guards’ and his fellow lordlings’ help; where Kelder Vanard kidnapped, beat, (implied-raped) and killed elven children with law enforcement on his side; where a Hawke who moved Merrill in with him/her created a HUGE scandal in Hightown because taking an elf as a lover rather than a servant threatened their security in their own power…
Where Celene’s relationship with her elven handmaiden Briala had to be kept a tight secret because if word got out it that the empress had an elven lover it would cost her the throne; and she tried to cover this shameful secret by burning an entire alienage down to show the other nobles she “wasn’t soft with elves.” (Of course, DAI did away with this by having Celene openly declare Briala her lover at the Ball if you reunite them, with all the nobles instantly accepting it and start trying to learn elven to curry favor…)
Most humans, especially human nobles, in past games and books were shown not to give a FIG about elven well-being, so this sudden “human nobles object to another human noble taking an elf because they’re concerned about the power imbalance and consent issues” is all kinds of retcon bullshit.
Most likely they’d get a hair up the arse about it because, “She’s soiling her pretty clean hands and/or pure noble blood with some filthy elf!” Or “She can’t take an elf as a lover and treat her like people. Then other elves will get this idea in their heads that they’re people too!” I thought it was interesting. I haven't romanced Sera yet so I hadn't heard this dialogue. Er... That's taking a large logical leap from "taking advantage of..." There are many things that the Inquisitor could be being taken advantage of: "her position in order to do something frowned upon" springs to mind.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Dreadnaw Rising
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on May 7, 2017 14:33:17 GMT
Found this: linkText under spoiler: Much is made about the “Only Three Mages Per Clan” Retcon in DAI. And I’m with them there. But there’s another retcon to elven lore that doesn’t get talked about enough, and I wanted to address it here.
Try to romance Sera as a Human Noble, and she makes this remark:
Sera: You tell me [if it’s a problem], Lady Trevelyan. It’s your people who always get a hair up the arse about it. ‘Oh, the Inquisitor took an elf. Of course she did. She’s taking advantage of… some rubbish, I don’t even know.’
HOLD IT! That’s some retcon bullshit right there. “Oh the Inquisitor took an elf. She’s taking advantage of…” No. I do not believe for one second that random Thedas human nobles (exceptions notwithstanding) would object to a fellow noble taking an elven lover out of concern for the elf’s well-being.
This is the same universe where Vaughan Kendells openly and frequently kidnapped, raped and killed elven women with the guards’ and his fellow lordlings’ help; where Kelder Vanard kidnapped, beat, (implied-raped) and killed elven children with law enforcement on his side; where a Hawke who moved Merrill in with him/her created a HUGE scandal in Hightown because taking an elf as a lover rather than a servant threatened their security in their own power…
Where Celene’s relationship with her elven handmaiden Briala had to be kept a tight secret because if word got out it that the empress had an elven lover it would cost her the throne; and she tried to cover this shameful secret by burning an entire alienage down to show the other nobles she “wasn’t soft with elves.” (Of course, DAI did away with this by having Celene openly declare Briala her lover at the Ball if you reunite them, with all the nobles instantly accepting it and start trying to learn elven to curry favor…)
Most humans, especially human nobles, in past games and books were shown not to give a FIG about elven well-being, so this sudden “human nobles object to another human noble taking an elf because they’re concerned about the power imbalance and consent issues” is all kinds of retcon bullshit.
Most likely they’d get a hair up the arse about it because, “She’s soiling her pretty clean hands and/or pure noble blood with some filthy elf!” Or “She can’t take an elf as a lover and treat her like people. Then other elves will get this idea in their heads that they’re people too!” I thought it was interesting. I haven't romanced Sera yet so I hadn't heard this dialogue. Er... That's taking a large logical leap from "taking advantage of..." There are many things that the Inquisitor could be being taken advantage of: "her position in order to do something frowned upon" springs to mind. Hmmm. True enough. If she never finishes the sentence, it leaves it a nice fill in the blank for the player.
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ryderflynn
N3
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: OminousBlaze
PSN: LuciusDagger
Posts: 369 Likes: 328
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ryderflynn
Bioware should just rename itself as "Sophie's Choice"
369
March 2017
ryderflynn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
OminousBlaze
LuciusDagger
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Post by ryderflynn on May 16, 2017 12:11:32 GMT
Sera weirded me out a little bit upon my first encounter. She seems a little... hyperactive. Need time to get used to her. Should be interesting though interacting with her as a fellow elf.
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Post by Walter Black on May 16, 2017 17:11:30 GMT
Sera weirded me out a little bit upon my first encounter. She seems a little... hyperactive. Need time to get used to her. Should be interesting though interacting with her as a fellow elf. Oh Sweet Summer Child....
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vit246
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 118 Likes: 169
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by vit246 on May 20, 2017 4:27:16 GMT
One thing I just noticed how often Sera says she prefers to be with "people people"; it's direct inversion of the Dalish proclaiming themselves "The People", as if they are the only "true" people. I wonder if Luke Kristjanson intended it to be subtle, or if Sera is aware of the irony and actually uses it as a screw you to "the people you used to make her feel broken". Incorrect. I don't recall the Dalish ever using the phrase "The People" in that way. It more refers to elves as a whole, no?
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Post by Walter Black on May 20, 2017 11:32:35 GMT
One thing I just noticed how often Sera says she prefers to be with "people people"; it's direct inversion of the Dalish proclaiming themselves "The People", as if they are the only "true" people. I wonder if Luke Kristjanson intended it to be subtle, or if Sera is aware of the irony and actually uses it as a screw you to "the people you used to make her feel broken". Incorrect. I don't recall the Dalish ever using the phrase "The People" in that way. It more refers to elves as a whole, no? I'm sure there are variations, where some mean it to refer to all Elves, and some to the Dalish who have little love for their "lost" cousins (see The Masked Empire). In any event, the common usage of "The People" to refer to Elves specifically still excludes humans, dwarves and qunari as "people".
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vit246
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 118 Likes: 169
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by vit246 on May 20, 2017 16:29:34 GMT
Incorrect. I don't recall the Dalish ever using the phrase "The People" in that way. It more refers to elves as a whole, no? I'm sure there are variations, where some mean it to refer to all Elves, and some to the Dalish who have little love for their "lost" cousins (see The Masked Empire). In any event, the common usage of "The People" to refer to Elves specifically still excludes humans, dwarves and qunari as "people". This is my bias speaking, but I refuse to acknowledge The Masked Empire. That clan is such a caricature its hard for me to take seriously. Also I think its a long stretch to conclude that the usage of "The People" somehow excludes non-elves as being people in the eyes of elves. Its just not about them. Its about how the elves address themselves.
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Post by Walter Black on May 20, 2017 20:46:28 GMT
I'm sure there are variations, where some mean it to refer to all Elves, and some to the Dalish who have little love for their "lost" cousins (see The Masked Empire). In any event, the common usage of "The People" to refer to Elves specifically still excludes humans, dwarves and qunari as "people". This is my bias speaking, but I refuse to acknowledge The Masked Empire. That clan is such a caricature its hard for me to take seriously. Also I think its a long stretch to conclude that the usage of "The People" somehow excludes non-elves as being people in the eyes of elves. Its just not about them. Its about how the elves address themselves. So humans being racist is understandable, and dwarves dismissing surfacers and casteless and qunari looking down on bas and tal-vashoth are well within their cultural norms. But elves refering only themselves as "The People" could never, under any circumstance have racist, or at the very least patronizing connotations. RIIIIIIGHHHTTT.... Oh, and while I agree The Masked Empire was badly written in places, it is canon. Period. Truly honest literary criticism requires that one recognize all aspects of a given tale; the good, bad, weird and ordinary, all of it. Instead of retconing mistakes (one of the laziest, most pathetic excuses IMO), we should encourage writers to actually acknowledge and fix these stories in a way that provides character and world development. The minute you say that you cherry pick lore and character, your stance pretty much loses all credibility.
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vit246
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 118 Likes: 169
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August 2016
vit246
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by vit246 on May 21, 2017 3:02:02 GMT
This is my bias speaking, but I refuse to acknowledge The Masked Empire. That clan is such a caricature its hard for me to take seriously. Also I think its a long stretch to conclude that the usage of "The People" somehow excludes non-elves as being people in the eyes of elves. Its just not about them. Its about how the elves address themselves. So humans being racist is understandable, and dwarves dismissing surfacers and casteless and qunari looking down on bas and tal-vashoth are well within their cultural norms. But elves refering only themselves as "The People" could never, under any circumstance have racist, or at the very least patronizing connotations. RIIIIIIGHHHTTT.... Oh, and while I agree The Masked Empire was badly written in places, it is canon. Period. Truly honest literary criticism requires that one recognize all aspects of a given tale; the good, bad, weird and ordinary, all of it. Instead of retconing mistakes (one of the laziest, most pathetic excuses IMO), we should encourage writers to actually acknowledge and fix these stories in a way that provides character and world development. The minute you say that you cherry pick lore and character, your stance pretty much loses all credibility. Let me clarify. I am fully capable of accepting there are some Dalish out there who do look condescendingly down upon their City Elf cousins and other races. What annoys me is the degree that it gets accentuated at the expense of the other side where a good number of Dalish have pity for their cousins and hope for a future where they reunite in one homeland. What also annoys me is these tend to become excuses and potshots to think the Dalish get what they deserve and wipe out a clan at least once every game and occasionally in a novel. Clans like Virnehn and Minaeve's are now considered to be typical representatives of the general rule. Sera's and Solas's vague encounter with Dalish are taken at face value. Jaws of Hakkon, Trespasser, Masked Empire. I know elves can be racist towards humans. But I don't know about the dwarves and qunari. I don't think the elves have enough of a relationship with the dwarves and qunari to have strong feelings about them one way or the other. The humans, dwarves, and qunari are...criticized for their cons but that doesn't stop anyone from admiring their many existing pros. The Dalish get nothing but negativity in almost every context. And its so incessant about it. There is an imbalance of portrayal here, and more players are inclined to assume the very worst of the Dalish without much nuance and context. I actually begrudgingly acknowledge Masked Empire's clan. I don't resent its existence. I resent its...common-ness.
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davesin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 489 Likes: 859
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by davesin on May 22, 2017 3:02:27 GMT
Sera weirded me out a little bit upon my first encounter. She seems a little... hyperactive. Need time to get used to her. Should be interesting though interacting with her as a fellow elf. Oh Sweet Summer Child.... Well, he wrote "interesting", not "best friends forever".
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 14, 2017 1:47:54 GMT
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Tripping through time
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Jun 17, 2017 14:20:42 GMT
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Post by Curious Crow on Jun 19, 2017 21:32:24 GMT
Some Sera screenshots ahoy. Fairly big ones and probably nothing revolutionary, but hey smiles
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 20, 2017 12:55:26 GMT
whaddap gaiz I still love my adorable elf wife
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Rel Fexive
N1
I conjured a little fuck you.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 27 Likes: 36
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Nov 26, 2017 11:26:36 GMT
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Rel Fexive
I conjured a little fuck you.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Rel Fexive on Jun 20, 2017 21:43:39 GMT
That's cuz she teh awesum.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 21, 2017 17:13:13 GMT
One thing I appreciate about Sera is that she doesn't go around acting like she has it worse than everyone. There is this party where she says "I'm not even near the bottom of what real people live through." I'm sure there are variations, where some mean it to refer to all Elves, and some to the Dalish who have little love for their "lost" cousins (see The Masked Empire). In any event, the common usage of "The People" to refer to Elves specifically still excludes humans, dwarves and qunari as "people". This is my bias speaking, but I refuse to acknowledge The Masked Empire. That clan is such a caricature its hard for me to take seriously. Also I think its a long stretch to conclude that the usage of "The People" somehow excludes non-elves as being people in the eyes of elves. Its just not about them. Its about how the elves address themselves. Even worse, Felassan talked like that's what a typical Dalish clan is like.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Jun 23, 2017 0:09:03 GMT
I'm sure there are variations, where some mean it to refer to all Elves, and some to the Dalish who have little love for their "lost" cousins (see The Masked Empire). In any event, the common usage of "The People" to refer to Elves specifically still excludes humans, dwarves and qunari as "people". Solas further complicates this by claiming to consider neither City or Dalish Elves as being " his people". This might suggest that he only considers the term only applicable to Ancient Elves, meaning his statement "The People need me" at the end of the game was only directed to helping the remaining survivors of Elvhenan. In contrast however, Flemeth does refer to members of the Dalish as "The People" several times throughout the series.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 30, 2017 2:48:40 GMT
Just gonna leave this here.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 30, 2017 8:49:08 GMT
Referring to the elves as "the People" would seem to be something that stretches right back to the time of the Elven Empire. Every ancient elf seems to use the term. In the old texts recovered from the Temple of Mythal there are repeated examples:
"She has struck down the Pillars of the Earth and rendered their demesne untothe People." "Ghilan'nain kept herself apart from the People". "The People swore their lives to Falon'Din." "We lost the People to war."
Then again in Trespasser: "The People must rise before the false gods destroy them all." "The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits."
So the tradition among the Dalish of referring to the elves as "the People" is a genuine hangover from the ancient days. Gisharel also admits in his account of Arlathan that in ancient times the elves saw humans as little more than pests. Andruil apparently hunted them like animals. They also regarded the dwarves as "witless and soulless" when they served the Titans. The only creatures that are given a measure of equality are the spirits who are referred to as "brethren", which is confirmed by Solas' attitude towards them.
What varies is how ancient ones view modern elves.
Flemeth/Mythal says: "The People are too quick to bow the knee" to Merrill and "You do the People proud" to Lavellan, so clearly in her eyes the modern elves do qualify.
Abelas categorically states: "You are not my people" to Lavellan.
Solas definitely did not think so before his return to Thedas: "His friend had to die because because he thought they were people". This could refer to all races although in Masked Empire the discussion between Felassan and Solas is definitely about Briala. However, he starts to accept that perhaps modern races are people of a sort but his People are more important.
So I'd say that Sera emphasising how people, people are important is her way of subverting the way that the Dalish (and even likely some city elves) talk about anyone who isn't an elf. However, for the majority of the Dalish I do not believe it is intended to show that the other races are non-people whose lives have no value but simply that they are different from them. Of course in Masked Empire the War Leader (a term never previously encountered among the Dalish) suggests that his clan get their kicks by tormenting their captives and hunting them down but we never learn who that clan regard as being their most important guiding god. His attitude is not in keeping with the Way of Three Trees, even though we now know that the real Andruil probably never had such an attitude either, so may be that central teaching of the Dalish is more their own interpretation of what they think she taught rather than what she did. Morrigan clearly has had dealings with clans similar to Clan Vernehn and their War Leader but since Solas emphasises the difference between clans, really is would seem there is now meant to be no hard and fast rule how the "typical clan" behaves.
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yourfunnyuncle
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 7588
Posts: 722 Likes: 1,704
inherit
653
0
Oct 10, 2020 23:39:17 GMT
1,704
yourfunnyuncle
722
August 2016
yourfunnyuncle
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by yourfunnyuncle on Jun 30, 2017 18:08:43 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Jul 5, 2017 4:23:51 GMT
Referring to the elves as "the People" would seem to be something that stretches right back to the time of the Elven Empire. Every ancient elf seems to use the term. In the old texts recovered from the Temple of Mythal there are repeated examples: "She has struck down the Pillars of the Earth and rendered their demesne unto the People." "Ghilan'nain kept herself apart from the People". " The People swore their lives to Falon'Din." "We lost the People to war." Then again in Trespasser: " The People must rise before the false gods destroy them all." "The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits." So the tradition among the Dalish of referring to the elves as "the People" is a genuine hangover from the ancient days. Gisharel also admits in his account of Arlathan that in ancient times the elves saw humans as little more than pests. Andruil apparently hunted them like animals. They also regarded the dwarves as "witless and soulless" when they served the Titans. The only creatures that are given a measure of equality are the spirits who are referred to as "brethren", which is confirmed by Solas' attitude towards them. What varies is how ancient ones view modern elves. Flemeth/Mythal says: "The People are too quick to bow the knee" to Merrill and "You do the People proud" to Lavellan, so clearly in her eyes the modern elves do qualify. Abelas categorically states: "You are not my people" to Lavellan. Solas definitely did not think so before his return to Thedas: "His friend had to die because because he thought they were people". This could refer to all races although in Masked Empire the discussion between Felassan and Solas is definitely about Briala. However, he starts to accept that perhaps modern races are people of a sort but his People are more important. So I'd say that Sera emphasising how people, people are important is her way of subverting the way that the Dalish (and even likely some city elves) talk about anyone who isn't an elf. However, for the majority of the Dalish I do not believe it is intended to show that the other races are non-people whose lives have no value but simply that they are different from them. Of course in Masked Empire the War Leader (a term never previously encountered among the Dalish) suggests that his clan get their kicks by tormenting their captives and hunting them down but we never learn who that clan regard as being their most important guiding god. His attitude is not in keeping with the Way of Three Trees, even though we now know that the real Andruil probably never had such an attitude either, so may be that central teaching of the Dalish is more their own interpretation of what they think she taught rather than what she did. Morrigan clearly has had dealings with clans similar to Clan Vernehn and their War Leader but since Solas emphasises the difference between clans, really is would seem there is now meant to be no hard and fast rule how the "typical clan" behaves. Agreed. The Dalish are a diverse diaspora and shouldn't be portrayed as a mono-culture. If Rivani humans and Orlesians humans can have vastly different traditions and cultures than why can't the Dalish? If anything it would help clear up a lot of the contradictions in their lore and presentation in the games.
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gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 5, 2017 19:09:57 GMT
True except why do they then have Solas and Sera having prejudice against them all? Sera I can understand if she has met one clan and been given to understand that they are typical of the rest (as Felassan does with Briala). It is also possible that she had never met a Dalish clan but only knew about them from heresay and what the City elves understand about them. If Briala is anything to go by, her expectations were unreasonable based off some idealised fantasy of what the Dalish were doing there out in the woods. At least you can't say that about Sera; her view of Dalish life is very unglamorous, so at some point I assume she must have encountered the reality. What I found hard to understand is why she was so anti as a result. Zevran ran away to the Dalish for a time, decided it wasn't for him and went back to the Crows. He could still respect them though, more than the city elves it would seem from his comments about the Vhenedahl tree, he just preferred the alternatives. He certainly didn't have a chip on his shoulder about their attitude towards other people, which is odd in a way when you consider that the Dalish up near Antiva City are among the most anti-social and aggressive Dalish around. I wish we could have got the background story in more detail as to why Sera had the attitude she did.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Jul 6, 2017 18:56:16 GMT
True except why do they then have Solas and Sera having prejudice against them all? Sera I can understand if she has met one clan and been given to understand that they are typical of the rest (as Felassan does with Briala). It is also possible that she had never met a Dalish clan but only knew about them from heresay and what the City elves understand about them. If Briala is anything to go by, her expectations were unreasonable based off some idealised fantasy of what the Dalish were doing there out in the woods. At least you can't say that about Sera; her view of Dalish life is very unglamorous, so at some point I assume she must have encountered the reality. What I found hard to understand is why she was so anti as a result. Zevran ran away to the Dalish for a time, decided it wasn't for him and went back to the Crows. He could still respect them though, more than the city elves it would seem from his comments about the Vhenedahl tree, he just preferred the alternatives. He certainly didn't have a chip on his shoulder about their attitude towards other people, which is odd in a way when you consider that the Dalish up near Antiva City are among the most anti-social and aggressive Dalish around. I wish we could have got the background story in more detail as to why Sera had the attitude she did. My own theory was that given that Sera seems to have spent some time in Orlais that the Dalish clan she encountered was the same one that Briala ran into in Masked Empire. Of course, given that Mihris is in Inquisition and Sera has no unique dialogue with her my theory likely doesn't hold muster. Zevran is a pretty chill guy all around who speaks kindly of the Crows even though they horribly abused him. It's possible that he didn't have that great of a meeting with the Dalish but chooses not to be angry about it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 6, 2017 21:14:55 GMT
In the absence of a better explanation I think your idea that Sera had a run in with Clan Virnehn is as good as any. I was spitting expletives over their attitude and the fact that they were presented as "typical" Dalish to both Briala and the reader, so if Sera had encountered them, her attitude would be understandable. A pity then that it wasn't possible to have a reasonable conversation with her where you could point out (if you chose) that clan Lavellan aren't like that. I think it was implied in Trespasser that something like that had occurred off screen because I seem to remember that she mentions the aftermath of the War Table mission involving their clan.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 9, 2017 21:05:12 GMT
I think Sera's a great character in that, she really annoys me in a lot of ways, but I still love her. We all know someone like that, surely?
I mean this is the only person who ever made my mage actually side with Vivienne (who's also great, but wrong about everything and hates me) when she started going on about "you people".
I only wish she could become Divine.
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