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Post by necrowaif on Oct 15, 2020 19:09:16 GMT
So I was thinking about Mortal Kombat 11’s approach to a “live service” yesterday and how since the game has rolled out, Netherrealm Games has either released (or is planning to release) two Kombat Packs with additional fighters, as well as an expansion with three additional characters. These new characters come with new pre-fight banters and their own cosmetics.
It’s done a fairly good job of maintaining interest in MK11, as it obviously gets pretty boring fighting with the same characters all the time.
BioWare’s approach to DLC characters has been to introduce them as pre-order bonuses (Shale in DAO, Sebastian in DA2, Javik in ME3).
But what if instead they introduced new DLC party members post-launch, say three to four months after the game released, with BioWare billing it as “experience the adventure of DA4 again with new party members”? Incidentally, these new companions would come with additional dialogue, party banter and personal quests.
Good idea? Bad idea? “Why would you even suggest this, you are a horrible person and I hate you”?
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Post by smilesja on Oct 15, 2020 19:46:31 GMT
Why would you even suggest this, you are a horrible person and I hate you!!!!!! On a serious note for Origins and 2 they DID have DLC companions though none for DAI. Personally I don't expect any DLC companions for DA4, temp companions yeah but nothing more.
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Post by Rascoth on Oct 15, 2020 20:03:30 GMT
Things like that can happen in games like MK, because main draw is having another character for fighting. Basically, it's to keep MP element fresh (also why we had new MP characters after release in BioWare games).
I don't think it'd work well in SP or work at all. Aside from people around here who do multiple playthroughs, not many play DA games more than once. I don't think getting DLC character that has bonus content in main campaign months after launch would make them play it again, thus making whole DLC for even narrower group than usual. Plus it'd handicap said character from get-go.
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 15, 2020 20:35:17 GMT
Plus it'd handicap said character from get-go. The notion is that you'd have the new character for a new playthrough, so there's no handicap.
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Post by Rascoth on Oct 15, 2020 20:45:18 GMT
Plus it'd handicap said character from get-go. The notion is that you'd have the new character for a new playthrough, so there's no handicap. I meant if from player standpoint. Character arrives later, less people get to know them, it'd harder for them to catch players attention since at that point most already have their faves, handicapping them in popularity contest, thus greatly lowering their chances of additional appearances. Not to mention since they arrive later, they'll either feel shoehorned to match the narrative, or they'll leave massive gap in story before they arrive.
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 15, 2020 20:49:32 GMT
Speaking from my perspective, I try to use every party member. I have no "faves," just slight preferences. So perhaps that's why I wouldn't have an issue with the post-launch addition of new characters.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 15, 2020 21:30:19 GMT
A character being added after release in these kinds of games doesn’t work because they aren’t integrated into the story as much. That’s why we get situations like Zaeed and Kasumi who are just there. Shale, Sebastian, and Javik were being developed for release but were cut, then worked on as DLC.
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 15, 2020 22:13:47 GMT
Technology has changed and now updates to games can be quite a bit larger than the days of Zaeed and Kasumi. I think you can integrate new characters into a story a lot easier than you once could, provided you've planned properly.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 15, 2020 22:16:34 GMT
Technology has changed and now updates to games can be quite a bit larger than the days of Zaeed and Kasumi. I think you can integrate new characters into a story a lot easier than you once could, provided you've planned properly. It’s not a matter or technology. It’s a matter of writing. And if they are already planning new characters months or years before the game comes out to incorporate them into the writing, those characters will be in the game at launch.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Oct 15, 2020 22:22:34 GMT
If anything, I'd prefer more story and dialogue content for the DA4 companions, rather than more companions themselves. Like, I would kill for just one more conversation with Solas. Players already look forward to said content in DLCS (Descent, Hakkon, Trespasser), why not capitalize on that?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 22:22:49 GMT
So would these new party members be planned ahead of time? Bioware would need to bring all voice actors back to record dialogue with these new companions. That includes party members plus any NPCs in the game who react to the new party member's dialogue. That sounds very expensive to bring back multiple voice actors to integrate each new character into the world.
I wouldn't enjoy having 6 base characters who have banter and NPCs react to them, then 4 characters over 4 months released who have voiced dialogue but no voiced interactions with characters from the base game.
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Post by phoray on Oct 15, 2020 22:30:57 GMT
If anything, I'd prefer more story and dialogue content for the DA4 companions, rather than more companions themselves. Like, I would kill for just one more conversation with Solas. Players already look forward to said content in DLCS (Descent, Hakkon, Trespasser), why not capitalize on that? Like, what if after base game, you could still kiss Cullen? have another romantic date? I'd keep a subscription for that. And that is probably the only thing I've ever said that for.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 15, 2020 23:09:28 GMT
I don't see how post-release characters can be added in a way that feels like they were always to be part of the story. To much work during development would be need to be done and I rather see that work to have characters implemented at release instead of holding them back for release. In other games having new characters added might not be as big of a deal, but with a BioWare game there is a lot of content in the game that requires a lot of interaction with existing assets.
I think Javik was the best example of a BioWare character being integrated, but over half of the character was already implemented in the game due to his being cut during development and not being a completely new character.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 16, 2020 1:07:38 GMT
The only way I would find this acceptable is if they were A. temporary companions associated to whatever story arc/ expansion they are a part of (like Tallis) or B. if, for some ungodly reason, they can't get the VA for a companion back to do more stuff so then they would have to be 'replaced' in whatever expanded content they release.
But yes, as others have stated I would much rather part of their post launch stuff focus on the companions we already have rather then have new ones.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 16, 2020 2:13:04 GMT
I'm cool with it.
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Post by kalreegar on Oct 16, 2020 8:17:49 GMT
please no I want to play the full experience. The first time too, if possibile. If I have to pay more, I pay.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Oct 16, 2020 12:08:21 GMT
I'd have to say a hard no on this.
As Hanako mentioned above, Shale, Seb & Javik were cut & reworked, but by adding new characters, you'd have to find a point in the narratvie to add said character, hope they were engaging enough for players to want & you've also go the post release problem of those that only play the game once, will they load up an endgame save just to recruit a character?
No, for games like Dragon Age & other rpg's it's not a good idea & even studio's like Netherrealm that have added so many fighters to MK, they plan in well in advance.
That's my opinion on this.
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Post by Adia on Oct 16, 2020 13:10:55 GMT
As long as we're getting the full game from day 1, I'd say... maybe? The game would have to be complete (main story wise) and have at least 9 companions. If they want to add free companions in the future, be my guest, as long as they aren't in place of companions that should've originally been shipped with the main game.
It's a step in the direction of making the game more live service and episodic, like Anthem, which I strongly dislike. I don't want to wait 6 months for the next main quest.
I much prefer temporary companions, such as Valta and Renn in a paid DLC than this, even if it's permanent companions for free, simply because it just muddies the water too much. I just can't trust them to pull it off without it affecting the numbers of companions in launch.
Imagine they release the game with 4 companions and and then be like "don't worry, we have more planned, see you in the future ;-)". Ugh. Just thinking about it gives me anxiety.
It can quickly escalate to other areas as well. So uhhh, hmm, rather not.
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 16, 2020 18:27:31 GMT
Imagine they release the game with 4 companions and and then be like "don't worry, we have more planned, see you in the future” Hey, you want to hear a joke?
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Post by colfoley on Oct 16, 2020 19:26:23 GMT
Imagine they release the game with 4 companions and and then be like "don't worry, we have more planned, see you in the future” Hey, you want to hear a joke? I think I'd die of a happiness heart attack if they announced that for 4.
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 16, 2020 19:42:52 GMT
Hey, you want to hear a joke? I think I'd die of a happiness heart attack if they announced that for 4. Because you’re imagining a good game plus 10 years of additional story-related content. What you should ACTUALLY imagine with any game that promises “X years of content” is a half-finished game at launch that they patch their way to semi-completion in the years following, along with some half-hearted Battle Royale mode and a few other token upgrades. Eventually it all winds down to a “Development has ceased on GAME X” a couple of years later since nobody is playing it anymore and the developer can’t justify the continuing cost.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 16, 2020 20:17:00 GMT
I think I'd die of a happiness heart attack if they announced that for 4. Because you’re imagining a good game plus 10 years of additional story-related content. What you should ACTUALLY imagine with any game that promises “X years of content” is a half-finished game at launch that they patch their way to semi-completion in the years following, along with some half-hearted Battle Royale mode and a few other token upgrades. Eventually it all winds down to a “Development has ceased on GAME X” a couple of years later since nobody is playing it anymore and the developer can’t justify the continuing cost. because game companies make a habit of releasing unfinished products? Though you are probably right, ten years might be a bit much. But I don't care how we get the content as long as we get it, and its quality. And Bioware is known by me to develop great games. Nearly all LS games that I've played have been great or made great eventually so I have little doubt bioware will deliver a great product.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 21:03:49 GMT
This is a fantastically horrible idea. No thank you.
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Post by yogsothoth on Oct 16, 2020 21:52:12 GMT
I'm fine with DLC characters as long as the general idea behind them is interesting (Shale/Javik, not Sebastian). It wouldn't be difficult to get them to the level of the optional Inquisition companions in terms of narrative and interactivity. On the topic of it being worthwhile or not, DLC is probably mostly bought by the fans that are going to do multiple playthroughs anyway or people who get the version of the game with all DLC included. The difficult part is getting all of the other VAs back if they do banter with the new character.
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Post by necrowaif on Oct 16, 2020 22:26:30 GMT
Because you’re imagining a good game plus 10 years of additional story-related content. What you should ACTUALLY imagine with any game that promises “X years of content” is a half-finished game at launch that they patch their way to semi-completion in the years following, along with some half-hearted Battle Royale mode and a few other token upgrades. Eventually it all winds down to a “Development has ceased on GAME X” a couple of years later since nobody is playing it anymore and the developer can’t justify the continuing cost. because game companies make a habit of releasing unfinished products? Where have you been in the past couple of years? The gaming landscape is littered with the corpses of "Release it now, patch it later" titles.
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