Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 10, 2021 3:01:17 GMT
I think a fine compromise to reduce extra variance would be to only offer a single, multi-gendered race choice: human or (insert selection here). On the other hand, if I keep hearing arguments about writing problems and lack of depth, or sacrificing key features, I move for a story written completely from an alien perspective, and having the player character NOT be human at all. I think that would be more interesting anyway. It might be interesting, but then it bodes the question would EA reduce sales predictions on that since its an unknown and the commentary plenty of the time is that people want to play human male characters which is what BioWare analytics have shown. So then there is still the case of things being cut from the game because the budget is lower because the game has become more of an unknown since there isn't a good example of how a game like that will preform financially. Mass Effect: "Next" is a major gamble already due to how Andromeda was received, so I bet the decision is going to be play it as safe as possible so I would highly bet that the chance of alien protagonist is low, but no human protagonist is almost non-existent.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 10, 2021 19:00:12 GMT
I think a fine compromise to reduce extra variance would be to only offer a single, multi-gendered race choice: human or (insert selection here). On the other hand, if I keep hearing arguments about writing problems and lack of depth, or sacrificing key features, I move for a story written completely from an alien perspective, and having the player character NOT be human at all. I think that would be more interesting anyway. It might be interesting, but then it bodes the question would EA reduce sales predictions on that since its an unknown and the commentary plenty of the time is that people want to play human male characters which is what BioWare analytics have shown. So then there is still the case of things being cut from the game because the budget is lower because the game has become more of an unknown since there isn't a good example of how a game like that will preform financially. Mass Effect: "Next" is a major gamble already due to how Andromeda was received, so I bet the decision is going to be play it as safe as possible so I would highly bet that the chance of alien protagonist is low, but no human protagonist is almost non-existent. I'd say that even if you took Andromeda's reception out of the equation, the chances would still be considerably low. Putting aside interest in non-humans aside, I think the supposed depth of the alien options are grossly overstated, both in the narrative and customization. No amount of head fringe markings will adequately replace hairstyles. To add to that we'll never have playable origins again, so dreams of training on Palaven or Thessia would only remain as such.
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 10, 2021 20:14:17 GMT
@op You can look at Inquisition as a sign of both what is good and bad with choice of multiple species for a protagonist.
Sure you got to play as an elf, dwarf and quniari but outside of very select moments the game makes no distinction between the player's choice to play as a quniari verses playing as a dwarf. In fact those two options left you as outsiders to your own race's culture so even in moments when the game does throw some world-building about your selected race your way the PC just stands there slack-jawed completely missing something that should be obvious to a member of that race. In fact, there are several instances where Josephine (your human advisor) knows more about dwarven and qunari culture that your dwarf or quinari protagonist.
Essentially what you get is a cosmetic skin to wear over your human character and little else. Sure, there might be stat differences to distinguish the choice mechanically but when it comes to role-playing your character in a role-playing game the narrative actually serves the title better to just play as a human.
You will likely run into the same thing with a Mass Effect take on this. Will your Asari character look quizzically at a fellow Asari when they say 'By the Goddess'? Will your Quarian protagonist ask why the Quarians have to wear suits all the time? Etc.
Believe me, I want to see more 'alien' aliens in the setting more than anyone, but asking for playable aliens as the protagonist is only going to water down those alien qualities into little more than bland window dressing.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 10, 2021 20:21:59 GMT
@op You can look at Inquisition as a sign of both what is good and bad with choice of multiple species for a protagonist. Sure you got to play as an elf, dwarf and quniari but outside of very select moments the game makes no distinction between the player's choice to play as a quniari verses playing as a dwarf. In fact those two options left you as outsiders to your own race's culture so even in moments when the game does throw some world-building about your selected race your way the PC just stands there slack-jawed completely missing something that should be obvious to a member of that race. In fact, there are several instances where Josephine (your human advisor) knows more about dwarven and qunari culture that your dwarf or quinari protagonist.
Essentially what you get is a cosmetic skin to wear over your human character and little else. Sure, there might be stat differences to distinguish the choice mechanically but when it comes to role-playing your character in a role-playing game the narrative actually serves the title better to just play as a human. You will likely run into the same thing with a Mass Effect take on this. Will your Asari character look quizzically at a fellow Asari when they say 'By the Goddess'? Will your Quarian protagonist ask why the Quarians have to wear suits all the time? Etc. Believe me, I want to see more 'alien' aliens in the setting more than anyone, but asking for playable aliens as the protagonist is only going to water down those alien qualities into little more than bland window dressing. Why wouldn't she? She's a diplomat who has studied all those cultures as best she can. Meanwhile the dwarven and qunari backgrounds had them just be mercenaries who weren't a part of that culture (being Casteless and Vashoth respectively). There are absolutely outsiders who know more about a culture than some of the people living in that culture. Also you do realize you don't have to ask those questions if you want them well-averse right? As for the DAI issues, it should be noted that the race options were added during the year extension. If the game was made with that idea from the start, guarantee they would have been implemented more. Disagree it is better to be human-only or waters the races down.
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Post by shotgunjulia on Aug 10, 2021 21:22:09 GMT
I got halfway through page 1. Damn, this thread went downhill fast.
Come on, guys. I mean you can play as different races in different games like DA and Skyrim. Yes, it takes some resources to program different cultural reactions to the different species. But it could be fun. Maybe Salarian kidney really does taste best served raw? Who knows?
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 10, 2021 22:47:29 GMT
@op You can look at Inquisition as a sign of both what is good and bad with choice of multiple species for a protagonist. Sure you got to play as an elf, dwarf and quniari but outside of very select moments the game makes no distinction between the player's choice to play as a quniari verses playing as a dwarf. In fact those two options left you as outsiders to your own race's culture so even in moments when the game does throw some world-building about your selected race your way the PC just stands there slack-jawed completely missing something that should be obvious to a member of that race. In fact, there are several instances where Josephine (your human advisor) knows more about dwarven and qunari culture that your dwarf or quinari protagonist.
Essentially what you get is a cosmetic skin to wear over your human character and little else. Sure, there might be stat differences to distinguish the choice mechanically but when it comes to role-playing your character in a role-playing game the narrative actually serves the title better to just play as a human. You will likely run into the same thing with a Mass Effect take on this. Will your Asari character look quizzically at a fellow Asari when they say 'By the Goddess'? Will your Quarian protagonist ask why the Quarians have to wear suits all the time? Etc. Believe me, I want to see more 'alien' aliens in the setting more than anyone, but asking for playable aliens as the protagonist is only going to water down those alien qualities into little more than bland window dressing. Why wouldn't she? She's a diplomat who has studied all those cultures as best she can. Meanwhile the dwarven and qunari backgrounds had them just be mercenaries who weren't a part of that culture (being Casteless and Vashoth respectively). There are absolutely outsiders who know more about a culture than some of the people living in that culture. Also you do realize you don't have to ask those questions if you want them well-averse right? As for the DAI issues, it should be noted that the race options were added during the year extension. If the game was made with that idea from the start, guarantee they would have been implemented more. Disagree it is better to be human-only or waters the races down. Which of course raises the question that why were dwarves and qunari even a choice to begin with? Your human inquisitor is more familiar with the Qun as a concept than your qunari at the start of the game for instance. The whole point why we are discussing having multiple playable species is to experience the setting through different perspectives but if those differences are just a cosmetic skin overtop a human actor then why bother wasting the resources for it? I want to play as a Salarian (for example) but I don't want to play as a human pretending to be a Salarian while all the other actual Salarians are these aliens that I never get to be apart of. That would be worse than just having a human only protagonist. At least that way you can excuse the player character for not knowing things that should be obvious to his or her species.
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Post by q5tyhj on Aug 11, 2021 16:01:37 GMT
Being human wasn't incidental but was fairly central to the story and the setting in the OT- humanity's standing in the galactic community being an explicit topic/theme throughout the first 3 games. So I would be a little surprised if we get a non-human PC.
Besides, that's what MP is for.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 11, 2021 17:50:48 GMT
I got halfway through page 1. Damn, this thread went downhill fast. Come on, guys. I mean you can play as different races in different games like DA and Skyrim. Yes, it takes some resources to program different cultural reactions to the different species. But it could be fun. Maybe Salarian kidney really does taste best served raw? Who knows? Just because it works in one game doesn't mean it will work in another. Open world procedural content design worked so well for Andromeda because those things worked in other games.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by shotgunjulia on Aug 11, 2021 20:17:21 GMT
All they have to do is have a short playable section for each character species that would happen before the main start. Come on. They did it in DAO. Why wouldn't it work in a sci-fi setting? I keep going back to DAO because it was probably Bioware's best game. Sure the engine was dated even at time of publication, but still.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 11, 2021 23:11:49 GMT
All they have to do is have a short playable section for each character species that would happen before the main start. Come on. They did it in DAO. Why wouldn't it work in a sci-fi setting? I keep going back to DAO because it was probably Bioware's best game. Sure the engine was dated even at time of publication, but still. DAO should be in Top 5 better Bioware games and Kotor is one of their better games as well.
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Aug 12, 2021 1:35:52 GMT
It might be interesting, but then it bodes the question would EA reduce sales predictions on that since its an unknown and the commentary plenty of the time is that people want to play human male characters which is what BioWare analytics have shown. So then there is still the case of things being cut from the game because the budget is lower because the game has become more of an unknown since there isn't a good example of how a game like that will preform financially. Mass Effect: "Next" is a major gamble already due to how Andromeda was received, so I bet the decision is going to be play it as safe as possible so I would highly bet that the chance of alien protagonist is low, but no human protagonist is almost non-existent.
Unfortunately, you are correct in your assessment. It is purely wishful thinking to hope for a locked non-human after human-only Hawke, Shepard, and Ryder. I mostly suggested it for those who worry about diluted narratives. Regardless of what may be coming, I'm still going to keep my fingers crossed for a single alien choice alongside the potential mandatory human #4.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 12, 2021 4:50:34 GMT
All they have to do is have a short playable section for each character species that would happen before the main start. Come on. They did it in DAO. Why wouldn't it work in a sci-fi setting? I keep going back to DAO because it was probably Bioware's best game. Sure the engine was dated even at time of publication, but still. DAO was/is/still their best game. Hopefully it gets remastered. If I were to play another species, and I wanted to play as an asari, I would want her to have yellow skin with blue polka dots with her tentacles tied in a bun. I know that won't happen. Playing as another species reduces customizing the character. If they do put in the option to play as another species, I want to play as a reaper who is best buds with Harbinger. After each harvest we talk smack to each other about who vaporized the most organics. excellent.
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Post by Vortex13 on Aug 12, 2021 12:39:14 GMT
All they have to do is have a short playable section for each character species that would happen before the main start. Come on. They did it in DAO. Why wouldn't it work in a sci-fi setting? I keep going back to DAO because it was probably Bioware's best game. Sure the engine was dated even at time of publication, but still. DAO should be in Top 5 better Bioware games and Kotor is one of their better games as well. DA:O also had the benefit; yes benefit, of not having a voiced protagonist. All that word budget saved allowed for a very reactive playthrough that you just can't capture if ~50% of your game's entire word budget is devoted to giving your PC several variants of a male or female voice.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 13, 2021 6:42:36 GMT
All they have to do is have a short playable section for each character species that would happen before the main start. Come on. They did it in DAO. Why wouldn't it work in a sci-fi setting? I keep going back to DAO because it was probably Bioware's best game. Sure the engine was dated even at time of publication, but still. DAO was/is/still their best game. Hopefully it gets remastered. If I were to play another species, and I wanted to play as an asari, I would want her to have yellow skin with blue polka dots with her tentacles tied in a bun. I know that won't happen. Playing as another species reduces customizing the character. If they do put in the option to play as another species, I want to play as a reaper who is best buds with Harbinger. After each harvest we talk smack to each other about who vaporized the most organics. excellent. I hope it also gets mentioned that Sovereign was also part of their group and that they'll never forgive organics for killing it. Harbinger will say "Those organics who were killed by us were no different than humans stepping on ants. Humans don't think anything of it and ants never rise up in revolt. I don't see what they're complaining about."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2021 7:46:24 GMT
DAO should be in Top 5 better Bioware games and Kotor is one of their better games as well. DA:O also had the benefit; yes benefit, of not having a voiced protagonist. All that word budget saved allowed for a very reactive playthrough that you just can't capture if ~50% of your game's entire word budget is devoted to giving your PC several variants of a male or female voice. So much this. "I want my oompa loompa now! It's so easy, they did it before!?!?!!1!" They did it with a voiceless PC, because hiring 10 different actors and actresses to record the same entire dialog is damned expensive. If you are willing to have a voiceless PC, I am with you and yes lets have a voiceless PC that can be any Mass Effect: Origin. This sounds like a fantastic roleplaying game, and major NPCs can record 10 extra lines each for these extra cases and boom pow MEO. Except.... there's still a major problem. Cutscene animation. How do I know when a Turian is making a "menacing" face, or beaming with joy? If I don't hear it and see it in body language, I have no clue. Volus, Quarian, Vorcha - these all have faces that are expressionless. What a fantastic voyage, with our absolutely Tabula Rasa PC. But there's races! shotgunjulia, the thread hasn't gone down fast, or any faster than normal, and you are the one with the ridiculous hot take. You can blab about how easily it could be done (Narrator: It can't be easily done), but you're wrong and you should set your expectations more realistically.
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Post by ALTBOULI on Aug 13, 2021 9:06:30 GMT
Only if the options include volus otherwise no thanks
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 13, 2021 17:07:03 GMT
shotgunjulia, the thread hasn't gone down fast, or any faster than normal, and you are the one with the ridiculous hot take. You can blab about how easily it could be done (Narrator: It can't be easily done), but you're wrong and you should set your expectations more realistically. This thread hasn't gone downhill at all. It's just a lot of discussion about why the idea would or would not work. It's kind of pointless to create a thread expecting everyone to be on board. The point of it is to discuss it. Same with my Cerberus thread. Sure, there's quite a difference of opinion there but no one has gone on the attack.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 13, 2021 17:35:41 GMT
DA:O also had the benefit; yes benefit, of not having a voiced protagonist. All that word budget saved allowed for a very reactive playthrough that you just can't capture if ~50% of your game's entire word budget is devoted to giving your PC several variants of a male or female voice. So much this. "I want my oompa loompa now! It's so easy, they did it before!?!?!!1!" They did it with a voiceless PC, because hiring 10 different actors and actresses to record the same entire dialog is damned expensive. If you are willing to have a voiceless PC, I am with you and yes lets have a voiceless PC that can be any Mass Effect: Origin. This sounds like a fantastic roleplaying game, and major NPCs can record 10 extra lines each for these extra cases and boom pow MEO. Except.... there's still a major problem. Cutscene animation. How do I know when a Turian is making a "menacing" face, or beaming with joy? If I don't hear it and see it in body language, I have no clue. Volus, Quarian, Vorcha - these all have faces that are expressionless. What a fantastic voyage, with our absolutely Tabula Rasa PC. But there's races! shotgunjulia , the thread hasn't gone down fast, or any faster than normal, and you are the one with the ridiculous hot take. You can blab about how easily it could be done (Narrator: It can't be easily done), but you're wrong and you should set your expectations more realistically. To be fair, my Warden did emote once, when running in seeing their father bleeding out with a sort of worried expression.
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Post by Deathfield on Aug 15, 2021 8:24:25 GMT
Renegade Batarian Slaver complete with submission net from ME3 multiplayer for catching all those filthy humans.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 15, 2021 8:48:13 GMT
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Post by Phantom on Aug 16, 2021 2:08:53 GMT
well If we have an Alien Player Character, them being knowledgeable about their culture first and foremost in order to have proper roleplay. For example, having an option to have a Volus to be a dedicated capitalist(I am aware that is a volus communist within ME:A novels), Main reason for the dedicated capitalist as an option for a volus is due to that Volus are known for their capitalist bend within their culture. And
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 17, 2021 16:59:06 GMT
Why would it not make sense? And of course DAI would brush it aside, because what does it matter if an elf is in a relationship with a qunari or whatever. Because I don't believe in sexless relationships. You do realize that just because qunari are seven feet tall doesn't mean they are gonna be massive in... er other ways. Not sure if I can say the word on here. Seriously though if an elf is a little over five feet then there isonly a two foot difference and we see this in some relationships between regular sized people and..I am not sure the polite term but I think it's "little" people. While this is gonna make certain positions impossible it doesn't mean it's gonna be a full sebastian Vale romance from DA2.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 17, 2021 17:01:58 GMT
I hope so too, but I think they will limit races to the Council members and maybe the Krogan. I doubt we will get to play as Geth, Quarians, Batarians, etc. Actually considering they would only need to change the "skin" it is likely that we would get asari and batarians and drell and any other race that has a human shape.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Aug 17, 2021 17:03:13 GMT
I got halfway through page 1. Damn, this thread went downhill fast. Come on, guys. I mean you can play as different races in different games like DA and Skyrim. Yes, it takes some resources to program different cultural reactions to the different species. But it could be fun. Maybe Salarian kidney really does taste best served raw? Who knows? You know they might make it Shepard or ryder again? They hinted at shepard being involved and showed andromeda too.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 17, 2021 18:02:54 GMT
Because I don't believe in sexless relationships. You do realize that just because qunari are seven feet tall doesn't mean they are gonna be massive in... er other ways. Not sure if I can say the word on here. Seriously though if an elf is a little over five feet then there isonly a two foot difference and we see this in some relationships between regular sized people and..I am not sure the polite term but I think it's "little" people. While this is gonna make certain positions impossible it doesn't mean it's gonna be a full sebastian Vale romance from DA2. I guess but I was basing it on actual bulls. Anyway, this thread got inflammatory so I'm not going to further participate.
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