Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 28, 2021 9:33:52 GMT
I just assume that most history is skewed in one way or another and treat elves nicer than they treat me - I help them out, I'm polite, I don't insult them, but I don't stick around because they often aren't very friendly, and they're probably glad to see me leaving too.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 28, 2021 22:11:42 GMT
If the Chant is the human's historical codex, then why would they have a history of elves and dwarves before the arrival of humans? The Chant is meant to be giving an account of the creation of Thedas. It starts with just the Maker and the spirits in heaven. Then the Maker creates the earth, separates it from the Fade (with the Veil) and populates it with humans. This is meant to be what the Wellspring of All imparted to Andraste as the origin of all things, which it clearly isn't and simply reflects a human orientated take on the world. It would make sense if that was a human tradition that Andraste was already familiar with that she was passing on but that is not the claim. It is meant to be divine revelation by the creator of all things. That is what I meant. Wynne contradicts you on this.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 28, 2021 22:13:50 GMT
I thought how people view the elves was on topic. It definitely seems to me that there are some people who do not have a problem with us killing large numbers of elves next game because "they deserve it" and are "stupid", particularly the Dalish who I fear are being set up by the writers for wholesale destruction. That is what I am objecting to. However, I appreciate you are not one of those people, so what would you like to discuss next? I sense we’ll be doing wholesale destruction on a lot of people. A lot of elves because many are supporting a madman who wants to commit utter genocide, a lot of elves because they’re just mindless brutes now for some reason, a lot of humans because human nature, and for dwarves I dunno maybe Kal-Sharok is all red lyrium so they’re controlled or something. Well, to better merge the two topics and address your concern, do you think there will be a way to expose Solas to his followers where they no longer support him without wiping them out? We have been able to do that before in the series, like some of Loghain’s supporters like Cauthrien or the Wardens in DAI. If so, how? The Dalish would be the least susceptible to Solas, however, a tricked Dalish would be easier to sway against him. After all, Fen'Harel is the great deceiver, and he is known to be tempting.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 29, 2021 0:11:07 GMT
I suspect that a lot of the elves working for Solas have been tricked and told half-truths instead of the full story. I wouldn't be surprised if we could turn a great deal of his agents against him.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2021 7:23:13 GMT
Wynne contradicts you on this. Does she? In what way? Anyway, if you wish to continue this discussion, I suggest we take it over to the Crazy Theories thread, so we are no longer guilty of going off topic.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2021 7:59:24 GMT
Well, to better merge the two topics and address your concern, do you think there will be a way to expose Solas to his followers where they no longer support him without wiping them out? We have been able to do that before in the series, like some of Loghain’s supporters like Cauthrien or the Wardens in DAI. If so, how? I suppose it depends how much the new PC learns along their journey. Even if the shadow Inquisition try to enlighten them, why should they believe them? It does say at the end of Trespasser that those who believe the Inquisitor's story wonder what Solas is going to do with all those elves flocking to him. Which suggested to me there were other people who thought the Inquisitor was spinning a yarn, possibly assuming they were trying to justified the continued existence of their organisation in its current form. We know from Tevinter Nights that Solas' agents would seem to have been trying to recruit elves to their cause for some years, possibly for some time before he awoke, if Felassan is anything to go by, with efforts increasing after he became active in person, but certainly after he lost his orb and so needed to come up with a plan B. Agents like Felassan did seem to be concentrating more on information gathering without revealing their connection to Fen'Harel, whereas recent recruiters have been quite open about their allegiance, at least to the cause of restoring the elves to power even if they are omitting the part about Fen'Harel. I can't check my copy at present but I seem to recall they were promoting some idea of pay back against the humans as well. I think the reason Solas and his agents might concentrate their efforts more on city elves is that they don't have the same attachment to the elven gods as the Dalish and thus are less likely to be prejudiced against Fen'Harel if his name does come up. As you say, the Dalish ought to be wary of any plan suggested by the Dread Wolf and would at least be open to someone suggesting that may be he hasn't been entirely honest with them about what their fate will be when his plan comes to fruition. The majority of city elves have such a miserable existence my worry is that they might not actually care if they didn't survive so long as it resulted in a better future for elves. After all, wasn't that the line Solas was trying to push with Charter? It all comes down to credibility really. We were able to convince Cauthrien to back down because she remembered a different Loghain from before the Blight and so could accept your argument that in doing so she wasn't being disloyal to that Loghain but to the man he had become, who didn't deserve her loyalty. (I think I have remembered that right). So with the Dalish it would be a case of reminding them how little Fen'Harel had done for them down the years even though, unlike the other gods, he was in a position to do so. They believe that Dreamers can act through the Fade so the fact he was in Uthenera was no excuse. Thus why should they believe his current actions are going to be any more beneficial to them than they were before? As I say above, with the city elves it may be more tricky but I suppose it would be a case of getting them to question exactly who is going to benefit from his actions. It would also be helpful to know exactly how he intends using them. Are they necessary for the success of his ritual or is he gathering them as part of his "plans" against the newly released elven gods? It is also possible that they think they are just working to establish a Dales mark 2, not the ancient empire, and a better future for elves in Thedas as it is currently, not the eradication of the other races. What you pointed out for Merrill may be true of other elves. They may have non elven friends and even if they don't, they may have a general morality that does not justify genocide. If Solas and his agents have been selective with the truth of what will result from Solas' ritual, then if you can persuade them of your honesty and integrity, they might well reject their allegiance to him.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 29, 2021 11:33:45 GMT
Doesn't Solas have plenty of ancient elves to help him out? I thought it was explained that his spies in the Inquisition were mostly ancient elf plants and that when Leliana looked into their backgrounds, it appeared that they had all just mysteriously sprung up out of nowhere x amount of time ago.
And I seem to recall Solas saying that he already approached the Dalish and they weren't keen on anything he had to say.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2021 13:45:16 GMT
And I seem to recall Solas saying that he already approached the Dalish and they weren't keen on anything he had to say. This was before he lost his orb. He did seem to be reaching out to them but then got huffy because they wouldn't believe what he saw "in the Fade". Bearing in mind that World of Thedas claimed that the Dalish are wary of any magic involving spirits, telling them he had been hanging around in ruins communing with spirits was never likely to go down well. However, we don't know why he was trying to involve them. Did he want to save them or did he have some other use for then? I thought it was explained that his spies in the Inquisition were mostly ancient elf plants and that when Leliana looked into their backgrounds, it appeared that they had all just mysteriously sprung up out of nowhere x amount of time ago. It is some time ago now since I played this section of the game but I think she simply hadn't checked their backgrounds all that carefully of the elven recruits. After all, she knew the ones who turned out to be Qunari agents had originated from Kirkwall and yet despite everything that happened there in connection with the Arishok, she never thought to question their loyalties? It is why I always maintained she was a pretty useless spy master if she hadn't done proper background checks. Even once the immediate threat at the beginning of the game was over and we moved to Skyhold, she didn't bother checking Solas' story until he went off after the defeat of Corypheus. Only then did she discover the village he claimed to have originated from had not been inhabited for years. So I don't think it was ever categorically claimed that all his agents in the Inquisition were ancient elves. Considering that his agents had been trying to recruit followers from city elves up in Tevinter, I suppose it might be reasonably assumed they were doing the same down south. All we know for certain was that once he blew their cover by spilling his plan to the Inquisitor, his agents (ancient elf or otherwise) disappeared from their positions as servants, etc, across the south and headed for some undisclosed gathering point, probably using the eluvian network. However, we do know there must have been a fair few ancient elves out there somewhere because of his words to Abelas. What I'm not sure about are those "clans" up in Arlathan Forest. Are they genuine Dalish clans who headed north for some unknown reason in recent years? (Because Merrill, Fenris and Lavellan all seemed to think that the Dalish avoid going anywhere near Tevinter) Or will they be revealed to be the clans of ancient elves connected to either Fen'Harel or the Executors? I suppose we will find out next game.
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Post by Black Magic Ritual on Aug 29, 2021 14:08:59 GMT
Now that Panda mentions it, I wouldn't mind if our next elf origin was an Ancient Elf. Could be fun instead of playing another dalish lavellan again.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 29, 2021 14:25:26 GMT
Now that Panda mentions it, I wouldn't mind if our next elf origin was an Ancient Elf. Could be fun instead of playing another dalish lavellan again. It depends if we are going to be allowed to play multiple races again this time round or they are going to stick with just human like they did in DA2. If we are allowed to play an elf, I think it is more likely to be a city elf, which we haven't done since DAO. If we play an ancient elf, I think it would have to be an ancient elf with amnesia or there would be too many problems with us not knowing stuff we ought to. More likely we will get an ancient elf as a companion, even if we are not necessarily aware of it when we first meet them. Then the question arises as to whether they will be a secret supporter of Solas or utterly opposed to him. If the Executors are a sect of ancient elves, we know they oppose him and he sees them as a threat, although they could just as easily be a human faction from "across the sea". I hope the arcane archer we have seen in the trailer and the concept art is both an ancient elf and a companion.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Aug 29, 2021 15:45:12 GMT
I always have to remind myself that Solas has/had a very narrow definition of what/who his 'people' are. To him, and most Ancient Elves I imagine, only the 'People' (literally the word the Elves used to describe themselves) were worthy of personhood. And only a select few were even worthy of the benefits of that title. To be an Elf was to be a person, and an Elf in those times was immortal, magical and looked like them. If any of these requirements were not met then they weren't people. They treated the Dwarves like lobotomised slaves, hunted the Titans, treated their slaves/servants like expendable toys (Andruil, Falon'Din and Ghilan'nain the most noteworthy with their indifference to their fellow Elves). Solas only cared about the Elves, he didn't seem to care about the Dwarves until he realised killing Titans was a very bad thing (his mural in the Deep Roads). While in modern times he might regard the modern races of Thedas as people they don't matter to him in the grand scale of things. What is the value of mortal life next to the value of immortal beings. He's seen a world ruled by both and decided that only his people are worth saving, at the cost of everything else. I don't agree with him, but I can understand where he is coming from.
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Post by ellehaym on Aug 29, 2021 18:00:46 GMT
I suspect that a lot of the elves working for Solas have been tricked and told half-truths instead of the full story. I wouldn't be surprised if we could turn a great deal of his agents against him. I think this could be a possibility too. It seems like each organization have opposing factions within them, so why can't Solas group be the same too? They might even start seeing Solas and no better than the Evanuris he opposed or they might even miss the Evanuris and want thier return. Felassan and Solas himself started to view the races of modern Thedas as "real" and Felassan even betrayed Solas for their sake; Solas was close to telling the truth and giving it all up for a romanced Levallen but changed his mind last minute. I can see some of the Ancient Elves getting 2nd thoughts as time passes by.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Sept 9, 2021 0:05:19 GMT
Fucking based. One of the things I love about the Dragon Age series is the extent to which you can humiliate the Dalish at every turn. Stupid elves But don't you know? Every race and organization is stupid in Dragon Age. Stupid elves, stupid dwarves, stupid humans, stupid Chantry, stupid Wardens, stupid Mages, and so on. Stupid, stupid, and more stupid. Stupid everywhere! It wouldn't be a Bioware game if there wasn't stupid people in charge, doing stupid things so that the protagonist has to clean it up, now would it? 😉
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Post by adonniel on Sept 15, 2021 1:59:57 GMT
I remember watching Stark Trek Voyager, an episode called Year of Hell. There was an antagonist Annorax. He kept changing the history of the universe in order to restore 'correct history' by eliminating civilizations. When Solas talked about his plan, I understood it in the same context as what Annorax was doing. It's kind of twisted, more like rewriting history via destroying the present rather than ending all history. DA4 will shed more light on his plans hence the information Inquisition offered isn't sufficient for me, I feel like I only got the most general idea of Dread Wolf's plan via analogy.
Edit: To address the question specifically. If Solas is planning to sacrifice present civilization and replace it with another one, I don't see how anyone, including the elven mages would survive this hence they will never be born to begin with. However, since the elves have lost everything, I can see how present day elves would be willing to sacrifice themselves in hopes that in a different time line their civilization will thrive instead of diminishing.
But once again, it depends on what effect tearing down the Veil will bring about. Will the space/time continuum be effected? The Veil held a lot of past events as well and it's more like a ball that connects fragments from different times. I'm questioning whether DW's plan is working along the lines of linear history or dabbling with the time itself.
Also, it seems to me that Solas thinks he knows what he's getting into, but he doesn't know Nug's poo and he'll realize that only after dwarves start falling out of the sky.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 15, 2021 8:46:44 GMT
But once again, it depends on what effect tearing down the Veil will bring about. Will the space/time continuum be effected? The Veil held a lot of past events as well and it's more like a ball that connects fragments from different times. I'm questioning whether DW's plan is working along the lines of linear history or dabbling with the time itself. The problem is that he was somewhat vague about exactly what is going to happen. Since time travel was introduced to the universe in DAI, it could be that he intends to rewind time to some point before the rise of the Evanuris, thus restoring the world of the elves. This would indeed result in the destruction of everything in the present, including the Blight. We know that in theory this would be possible without the Veil, although as I understood the explanation in Hushed Whispers, the reason Alexius couldn't go back further in time than he did was that he couldn't go beyond the creation of the breach that allowed him the power to do it. So that would surely be true for Solas as well; he could only go back as far as the point where he tore down the Veil. So, whilst some sort of limited time travel may be involved, his plan does seem to focus more on doing something drastic in the present. At least in the short term, removing the Veil would appear to have an impact on gravity. When Corypheus opened up the Breach again, the mountains were levitating in the immediate vicinity and surely that couldn't all have been down to his own magic. Then we have seen concept art for DA4 showing a fragmented landscape of floating mountains. Whether this is in specific areas of high magic concentration (lyrium deposits?) is anyone's guess but it seems odd they would be doing concept art showing this if it isn't going to appear somewhere next game, even if only as a memory of the past. Just who would survive such an upheaval is unclear. Clearly, those on the floating aravels probably would. He spoke of raw chaos following removal of the Veil. Was he just speaking of this landscape levitation or something even more destructive. I'm mindful of the fact that the Promisors believed that the current world was so corrupted (by the Blight?) it could only be cleansed by fire and they also thought the key to bringing this about was to destroy the Veil. Quite where they got their ideas from was not clear but I instantly recalled them when Solas was speaking of what he thought removing the Veil would do.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 15, 2021 11:36:27 GMT
But once again, it depends on what effect tearing down the Veil will bring about. Will the space/time continuum be effected? The Veil held a lot of past events as well and it's more like a ball that connects fragments from different times. I'm questioning whether DW's plan is working along the lines of linear history or dabbling with the time itself. The problem is that he was somewhat vague about exactly what is going to happen. Since time travel was introduced to the universe in DAI, it could be that he intends to rewind time to some point before the rise of the Evanuris, thus restoring the world of the elves. This would indeed result in the destruction of everything in the present, including the Blight. We know that in theory this would be possible without the Veil, although as I understood the explanation in Hushed Whispers, the reason Alexius couldn't go back further in time than he did was that he couldn't go beyond the creation of the breach that allowed him the power to do it. So that would surely be true for Solas as well; he could only go back as far as the point where he tore down the Veil. So, whilst some sort of limited time travel may be involved, his plan does seem to focus more on doing something drastic in the present. At least in the short term, removing the Veil would appear to have an impact on gravity. When Corypheus opened up the Breach again, the mountains were levitating in the immediate vicinity and surely that couldn't all have been down to his own magic. Then we have seen concept art for DA4 showing a fragmented landscape of floating mountains. Whether this is in specific areas of high magic concentration (lyrium deposits?) is anyone's guess but it seems odd they would be doing concept art showing this if it isn't going to appear somewhere next game, even if only as a memory of the past. Just who would survive such an upheaval is unclear. Clearly, those on the floating aravels probably would. He spoke of raw chaos following removal of the Veil. Was he just speaking of this landscape levitation or something even more destructive. I'm mindful of the fact that the Promisors believed that the current world was so corrupted (by the Blight?) it could only be cleansed by fire and they also thought the key to bringing this about was to destroy the Veil. Quite where they got their ideas from was not clear but I instantly recalled them when Solas was speaking of what he thought removing the Veil would do. We did see what happened when in the Breach during the Redcliffe mission. For all we know, Solas might not have the power to do what he seeks and he's making, yet another, tragic mistake.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 15, 2021 14:25:47 GMT
We did see what happened when in the Breach during the Redcliffe mission. For all we know, Solas might not have the power to do what he seeks and he's making, yet another, tragic mistake. People have argued that was a gradual bleeding in of the Fade as the Breach grew wider so simply dropping the Veil in one go would not necessarily result in the same. Then again, it could be a lot worse but the Hushed Whispers future was bad enough. However, I'm mindful of the fact that Solas does question about that future that you saw, seems skeptical it was actual time travel and suggests rather than it was some trick of the Fade. If you insist it was real he seems placated but if you use Dorian as validation "Solas disapproves". I was never sure whether that was simply he didn't trust Dorian or just didn't approve of you relying on someone else's opinion rather than your own but, of course, it is possible that he simply just didn't want to believe the nightmarish world you had seen. I'm sure in his minds eye, once he has reshaped reality, what will be left is an elven utopia, so any suggestion of a less than perfect future as a result of removing the Veil would not go down well with him. His reaction in the future was also interesting and with hindsight you can perhaps see his realisation that the Veil-less world he had planned was not going to happen. When he asks you to ensure this world never happens, was he thinking of what his self in the past had planned?
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 16, 2021 1:48:55 GMT
We did see what happened when in the Breach during the Redcliffe mission. For all we know, Solas might not have the power to do what he seeks and he's making, yet another, tragic mistake. People have argued that was a gradual bleeding in of the Fade as the Breach grew wider so simply dropping the Veil in one go would not necessarily result in the same. Then again, it could be a lot worse but the Hushed Whispers future was bad enough. However, I'm mindful of the fact that Solas does question about that future that you saw, seems skeptical it was actual time travel and suggests rather than it was some trick of the Fade. If you insist it was real he seems placated but if you use Dorian as validation "Solas disapproves". I was never sure whether that was simply he didn't trust Dorian or just didn't approve of you relying on someone else's opinion rather than your own but, of course, it is possible that he simply just didn't want to believe the nightmarish world you had seen. I'm sure in his minds eye, once he has reshaped reality, what will be left is an elven utopia, so any suggestion of a less than perfect future as a result of removing the Veil would not go down well with him. His reaction in the future was also interesting and with hindsight you can perhaps see his realisation that the Veil-less world he had planned was not going to happen. When he asks you to ensure this world never happens, was he thinking of what his self in the past had planned? The elven world was no utopia. Solas knew that and he thinks he can make one anyway. That is why I believe Solas's most charitable explanation is that he is mad.
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Post by adonniel on Sept 16, 2021 1:53:30 GMT
Just who would survive such an upheaval is unclear. Clearly, those on the floating aravels probably would. Thus, Solas sees himself as the Noah of Arkavel? Rejoice Inquisitors who romanced him. You have a ticket! My question for him doing something drastic in the present would entail to what end. It's hard to pinpoint what he plans to do because I don't see which benefit he is pursuing. What is his exact motivation and what it is that he wants. The only things he did not regard as trash were elves of the past not present (so why save present day elves when they've degraded?) and spirits of the Fade. Perhaps he believes the entities that exist in the Fade are a worthier civilization than dwarves humans and whatnot, and thus wants that civilization to take place of someone unworthy?
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Post by DragonEffect on Sept 16, 2021 2:29:52 GMT
It would affect all elves since all of them share "the old blood". Reference to this is a dialogue between Solas and Sera, where Sera can actually feel herself falling when she stares at the Breach at Solas' suggestion. She's an elf and not a mage. And yet, she's affected by magic coming from the Fade, just as I imagine every elf in Thedas is. It's also worth noting the Fade isn't the ONLY source of magic in Thedas. Dwarves are ALSO affected by magic, but from another source: the Titans. If you played the Descent DLC, you already knew about this.
I imagine DA4 might address the fact that there are two sources of magic in Thedas and that one of them - the Titans - might not be happy with an ancient elf from Arlathan tearing the Veil. If the Veil comes down, it might also awaken magical powers that were dormant in some people - possibly, the entire elven population. It could also affect the Titans, who would then awaken the dwarves to their magical abilities. And since tearing down the Veil would destroy the world as it is, Solas' actions could anger the Titans, who might then use the dwarves in a possible world war against Solas and his followers, as well as his allies.
(Hence why, if the Inquisitor drank from the Vir Abelasan, they have essentially become Solas' puppet in a future conflict of global proportions)
Of course, this is all hypothetical. Still, once the Veil is down, and given how we learned A LOT of new info on the magical mysteries of Thedas, DA4 should make use of this vast pool of knowledge to create an engaging story and interesting plot. I hope.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 16, 2021 6:06:18 GMT
It would affect all elves since all of them share "the old blood". Reference to this is a dialogue between Solas and Sera, where Sera can actually feel herself falling when she stares at the Breach at Solas' suggestion. She's an elf and not a mage. And yet, she's affected by magic coming from the Fade, just as I imagine every elf in Thedas is. It's also worth noting the Fade isn't the ONLY source of magic in Thedas. Dwarves are ALSO affected by magic, but from another source: the Titans. If you played the Descent DLC, you already knew about this. I imagine DA4 might address the fact that there are two sources of magic in Thedas and that one of them - the Titans - might not be happy with an ancient elf from Arlathan tearing the Veil. If the Veil comes down, it might also awaken magical powers that were dormant in some people - possibly, the entire elven population. It could also affect the Titans, who would then awaken the dwarves to their magical abilities. And since tearing down the Veil would destroy the world as it is, Solas' actions could anger the Titans, who might then use the dwarves in a possible world war against Solas and his followers, as well as his allies. (Hence why, if the Inquisitor drank from the Vir Abelasan, they have essentially become Solas' puppet in a future conflict of global proportions) Of course, this is all hypothetical. Still, once the Veil is down, and given how we learned A LOT of new info on the magical mysteries of Thedas, DA4 should make use of this vast pool of knowledge to create an engaging story and interesting plot. I hope. I wouldn't be so sure about that. If things end up badly, yeah they'll be a problem, but if presented with a Thedas closer to being like the "world that was", they may be willing to go along with it. The Titans are ancient creatures just as the ancient elves are (if not more so), and it is heavily implied their dormancy in the modern era is not a natural phenomena that they are satisfied with. After Valta bonded with the Titan, she wrote down this: "Its blood now flows through me, and its song fills the gaps in our history. I close my eyes and see glimpses of the world that was, before everything changed and the dwarven race broke in two. Something caused the Titans to fall, and the fate of my people fell with them. The Titan wants me to know. No, more than that. It wants me to understand. There is a loneliness to its song." We also know from Valta that awakened Titans can't simply 'reach' all nearby dwarves just by virtue of being awake. The Sha-Brytol were apparently unable to connect with the Titan, and at the time they were arguably in the best position to do so. But instead it bonded with only Valta who has met an as-of-yet unknown criteria (No armor or lyrium ingestion?). But I digress. If the Titans were to be angry about anything, it would be whoever or whatever caused them to "fall" in the first place. Was this the veil? Maybe, but we have more evidence pointing toward the evanuris in the Trespasser DLC. Who knows, maybe the awakening-possibly-angry Titans are a pivotal part of Solas's infamous "plans" for dealing with the false gods.
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Post by DragonEffect on Sept 16, 2021 21:51:20 GMT
I also believe, as you said in your post, that awakening some angry Titans might be part of Solas' plan. However, I'm not sure about Titans being happy about it, even if it will "bring the world back to what it was". I'll elaborate a bit on that:
In human mythology, Titans were the geological forces that ravaged the planet and shaped the Earth as it is. Only after they quieted down was it possible for there to be life and the formation of civilizations. I don't think every Titan would cause untold destruction in Thedas - the one controlling Valta only wanted to connect to one of its children -, but as you pointed out, the DA Wiki entry makes it clear the Evanuris had something to do with possibly awakening or creating an angry Titan - as a weapon of war, possibly?
The entry also says the Evanuris fought the Titans. Maybe to subdue them, that is to say, to calm their anger and allow the physical world to become stable enough for elves to live there and build their first civilization? Although that sounds like more myth made up by the Evanuris to elevate them to the status of godhood. Maybe the Titans had settled down naturally and the Evanuris never did a thing. But at some point, they could have started messing with the Titans and awakened their anger.
(Could the red lyrium idol be connected to the angry Titans? Maybe it was an instrument used by the Evanuris to control Titans? It's tainted lyrium, which means it's a device that operates on blood magic, since lyrium is the blood of the Titans. Maybe someone with a weak mind would be unable to control it and would be controlled instead, like Bartrand and Meredith were. I have no proof, but the idol does appear in the DA4 trailer, so there is a mysterious connection there somewhere.)
If Solas does use some Titans to carry out his plan, their entire race will be affected by his actions. If Solas intends to let the world "burn in the raw chaos", as he states in Trespasser, then the physical structure of the world will be destroyed as well. In other words, the Titans themselves will be destroyed in the process. Solas' purpose is, in his own words, to reshape reality. Now, the angry Titans might not be rational enough to stop themselves from being unintentionally used, but there might be those that are beyond his reach - possibly like the one connected to Valta, and others who might be out there, spread throughout Thedas - who will realize that, in order for the world to go back to what it was, everything must be destroyed...including the Titans themselves. Hence, some of them might oppose Solas and try to stop him from succeeding, leading to a Thedosian world war of epic proportions (because without epic proportions, it isn't as much fun).
To sum it up: The Veil is lifted => angry Titans bring raw chaos => "good" Titans + heroes try to stop them before the world is destroyed => happy ending/cliffhanger to DA 5 As for preserving the People from the destruction of the world, my guess is that Solas will lead them to a place in the deep Fade where they might go into uthenera (like the guardians at Mythal's Temple) and wait until the physical world is rebuilt for them to repopulate the planet and rebuild their civilization once again. Or at least that's how he will convince the elves of his plan. (Solas is literally playing God and reenacting the human Genesis here, only there's more than just Adam and Eve this time. Talk about having a humongous ego. But that's just wild speculation on my part.)
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 17, 2021 8:04:03 GMT
As for preserving the People from the destruction of the world, my guess is that Solas will lead them to a place in the deep Fade where they might go into uthenera There is the possibility that many of those he wishes to preserve are already in uthenera but not situated within the Waking World but in pocket realms within the Crossroads network (as suggested in Masked Empire). Now when we visit the Crossroads with Morrigan, the Inquisitor (if an elf or a mage?) can sense that the network is deteriorating over time. This would make sense since it must rely on the Fade in the same way that other elven constructs did but being closer to it instead of immediately collapsing, it is a slow breakdown over millennia (although the Vir Dirthara was in the Crossroads and that did suffer an immediate collapse). This might at least explain Solas' sense of urgency that made him rush to unlock his orb via Corypheus rather than researching his stooge sufficiently before handing it over. It is also why he is still determined to push ahead with his plan to restore the "world of the elves" because time is running out for those in stasis. If he wakes them up without removing the Veil, they will simply die of old age but if he doesn't wake them and he fails to remove the Veil, they will die anyway as the Crossroads collapses. I've always assumed that his plan has to chiefly benefit ancient elves still in existence somewhere because he stated how his actions were necessary to save the elven people. He also confirmed to Abelas that ancient elves such as himself were still in existence. If his action was meant to benefit all elves then clearly the survival of modern elves is not dependent on removing the Veil. He could save them from their current situation by simply giving them some form of organisation and leadership since they have been surviving all this time despite their lowly situation in Thedas. The only other explanation would be the presence of the Blight in the modern world, which he knows will ultimately overwhelm it, but in that case his action would be saving more than just the elves, so why not tell that to the Inquisitor? So even if some modern elves might survive to "enjoy" his new world, I very much doubt that they all will.
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Post by theascendent on Sept 17, 2021 21:42:56 GMT
Would Demons go along with his plan? We know that he doesn't force spirits to go along with him as Cole mentioned they joined and served willingly, what about particularly ancient and vile spirits/demons such as the Forbidden Ones, or Nightmare. Would they revel in the chance to utterly destroy the mortal world, having a bigger playground to play in, or would they realize that Solas doesn't care for them, only his precious dead Elves and the Spirits that cooperate with him, they might end up just like the Evanuris, banished and trapped forever in the Black City (my reason why no Demon ever approached it) as a means of containing them. Would they reach out to the other mortals as means of self-preservation and a mutual enemy in the Dread Wolf? If Solas restores the world of the ancient Elves they might lose their place of power in the Fade, being forced to serve the Elves again. I imagine that the Evanuris readily enslaved spirits and Demons as they did their Elven subjects.
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Post by xerrai on Sept 18, 2021 3:27:34 GMT
Would Demons go along with his plan? We know that he doesn't force spirits to go along with him as Cole mentioned they joined and served willingly, what about particularly ancient and vile spirits/demons such as the Forbidden Ones, or Nightmare. Would they revel in the chance to utterly destroy the mortal world, having a bigger playground to play in, or would they realize that Solas doesn't care for them, only his precious dead Elves and the Spirits that cooperate with him, they might end up just like the Evanuris, banished and trapped forever in the Black City (my reason why no Demon ever approached it) as a means of containing them. Would they reach out to the other mortals as means of self-preservation and a mutual enemy in the Dread Wolf? If Solas restores the world of the ancient Elves they might lose their place of power in the Fade, being forced to serve the Elves again. I imagine that the Evanuris readily enslaved spirits and Demons as they did their Elven subjects. Well its not like the Fade is going to disappear once the veil is down. By all accounts not only was the fade in existence back then, but it still had "deep" parts that were beyond the reach of most elves. The Fade is, in essence, an endless well of emotion and memory after all. And while the elves did practice spirit binding, it is currently unknown how widespread that practice was. Similarly, I find it unlikely that even Solas can seal away all demons in the black city or any place else. A lot of standard demons would almost definitely want to join him. Even if they didn't neccesarily trust his endgame, Solas and his plan of restoring the "world of the elves" almost definitely means that spirits and demons alike would have more opportunities to access the world of the living. Be it in his service or after he successfully changes the world, the potential gains for a demon are in abundance. The more animalistic demons would glut themselves on whatever chaos Solas would bring, and the demons capable of forethought would most likely stick with him to make gains in the far future. Of course, if a demon is too simplistic and demands instant gratification, they may not cooperate for long. Or they may not be capable of the forethought necessary to think of a plan's potential consequences (or benefits) and will instead only focus on the present. But I'd argue regular demons have a lot to gain by working for Solas. Even if they themselves may not live to begin their plans, the world he may potentially bring would be far better than remaining the world they are in now where the veil blinds and hinders them from experiencing the mortal realm the way they want to. Even with the reduced quantity of people, the quality of what they would be able to 'taste' off them would be greatly amplified since there is no veil. That said, if a more intelligent demons was convinced that Solas's plan would reduce the mortal population too much or even outright eradicate all of it, then they would have a problem. So I guess it would all depend on the individual demon. We can't expect all of them to react the same. The Forbidden Ones may be a unique case though. For one they don't seem to be all that hindered by the veil since they have the power and knowledge to visit the mortal realm semi-regularly. And due to their history with the elvhen empire, they may not too keen on letting the evanuris out to potentially kill or exile them again. Of all demons they would be the ones most likely to stand against him, and yet...we have Imshael. Felassan got him to stop possessing Mihris by telling him "something bigger" was coming, which we always assumed referred to Solas. But based on Imshael's appearance in DAI, where Solas can actually meet him, he does not act in a way that tells us he wants to stop Solas. Given how unlikely, albeit still possible, it is that he failed to recognize him, it points to the idea that Imshael and likely the other Forbidden Ones (if they are alive) has no intention of stopping him. But why? Are they that certain Solas's plans will come to full fruition, thus sparing them from the evanuris's wrath? Or is there an alternative reason to see the veil removed and world changed? Or was that assumption of Solas being the "something bigger" actually wrong, and in fact referred to something else (Mythal? the Titans? The Blight?)?
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