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Post by Walter Black on Nov 3, 2016 17:57:11 GMT
I'm always curious as to why people choose one thing or another, and when it comes to Role Playing Games, you don't get more basic than the Player Character. These seem to be the most general archetypes, so which are your favorite and why? Provided Background
Since video games have a limited amount of space for information, they can't include every possible choice the player would want for their backstory. Thus, devs often provide backstories to help inform the player of the world and give them something to work with. The price is that sometimes players can feel "forced" into roles they would never have chosen, with people they don't necessarily care about. Some players can work around this, some can't. I actually liked the Origins and the Hawke family, but I can see why others don't. Blank Slate Most people consider this the perfect RPG character start, as they can easily headcannon whatever past and motives they wish. However, since the game cannot adequately reference you main's history, it can cause a disconnect that you aren't really apart of the world. Indeed, I've seen games where the main companions could have saved the world on their own, had their characters not been "weakened" enough to need the PC. Self Insert
Most people's main characters are reflections of themselves and what they would do in certain situations. This is not a criticism, as the whole point of roleplaying games are wish fulfillment. The issue comes when they *ONLY* play themselves, that even considering other viewpoints is wrong. It isn't just whether they are "good" or "evil", it's any deviation; gender and sexuality, race, politics and religion, idealism vs cynicism, logic vs emotion, etc. The idea that their character must be an insert, and not like a story they write, baffles them. A long with the lack of creativity, I wonder why such players would spend 60 dollars on a game that they only intend to use a quarter of the content. There is also the fact that many players who Self Insert also Meta-Game; i.e. they intentionally spoil themselves with wikis and walthroughs in order get their desired outcome, rather than playing the game organically. I won't lie, I've done this a few times in the past, but only when I had trouble otherwise. It's your money, you can play however you want to. But if you're not going to actually play the game, why buy it at all? Why not just watch Let's Plays and write fanfiction? Role Playing
My personally preferred playstyle, to explore the game world as some one who isn't me; good, evil, funny, weird, unremarkably ordinary and everything in between. For me, RPGs aren't just personal wish fulfillment, but a way to explore creative avenues and writing archetypes. That said, I will admit that Role Players sometimes look down on players who "just play to have fun". Or that we can take the story too seriously. In the end, it is just a game
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Post by our_lady_of_darkness on Nov 3, 2016 18:26:17 GMT
Self Insert
Most people's main characters are reflections of themselves and what they would do in certain situations. This is not a criticism, as the whole point of roleplaying games are wish fulfillment. The issue comes when they *ONLY* play themselves, that even considering other viewpoints is wrong. It isn't just whether they are "good" or "evil", it's any deviation; gender and sexuality, race, politics and religion, idealism vs cynicism, logic vs emotion, etc. The idea that their character must be an insert, and not like a story they write, baffles them. A long with the lack of creativity, I wonder why such players would spend 60 dollars on a game that they only intend to use a quarter of the content. There is also the fact that many players who Self Insert also Meta-Game; i.e. they intentionally spoil themselves with wikis and walthroughs in order get their desired outcome, rather than playing the game organically. I won't lie, I've done this a few times in the past, but only when I had trouble otherwise. It's your money, you can play however you want to. But if you're not going to actually play the game, why buy it at all? Why not just watch Let's Plays and write fanfiction? I won't lie, I find your attitude in the paragraphs above a bit condescending towards some players. Since it's their money and their time they decide to give to the game, why should anyone tell them their playstyle "lacks creativity"? And even if it does, so what?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 3, 2016 18:44:03 GMT
Self Insert
Most people's main characters are reflections of themselves and what they would do in certain situations. This is not a criticism, as the whole point of roleplaying games are wish fulfillment. The issue comes when they *ONLY* play themselves, that even considering other viewpoints is wrong. It isn't just whether they are "good" or "evil", it's any deviation; gender and sexuality, race, politics and religion, idealism vs cynicism, logic vs emotion, etc. The idea that their character must be an insert, and not like a story they write, baffles them. A long with the lack of creativity, I wonder why such players would spend 60 dollars on a game that they only intend to use a quarter of the content. (snip) I won't lie, I find your attitude in the paragraphs above a bit condescending towards some players. Since it's their money and their time they decide to give to the game, why should anyone tell them their playstyle "lacks creativity"? And even if it does, so what? Not just condescending, factually incorrect. Wish fulfillment is not the whole point of roleplaying. Roleplaying, at it's very best, is the antithesis of wish fulfillment. The best roleplayers are indistinguishable from improvisational actors. They play a role authentically, even when that role is diametrically opposed to their own likes or dislikes. If the OP had written that what a lot of people enjoy about roleplaying games is wish fulfillment, I'd be in perfect agreement. If that's what was meant, it was poorly worded. It's a shame. The OP accidentally stumbled into an area that would have been interesting to talk about -- how roleplaying games fall short of the ideal of roleplaying, and how that may be because of the framework used to portray PC's. Maybe roleplaying is a bad ideal in the first place. There's certainly a tension between the writing team on the game trying to piece together a compelling narrative and the player's agency. I don't think any studio has found the right formula yet. So what we have are different points on the narrative/agency spectrum, pretty much independent of roleplaying.
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Post by vertigomez on Nov 4, 2016 16:27:44 GMT
I like being able to roleplay characters that come with a certain amount of established background - playable origins in DAO and Hawke's family in DA2 are good examples. I didn't like the fact that nobody important from the Inquisitor's past ever showed up in-game. We got text-based war table missions featuring the Valo-Kas mercs, Trevelyan's family, Lavellan's clan, etc. but you don't get to meet these people, and I hated that.
I'm attached to my Wardens and Hawke because I care about Rica and Shianni and Tamlen and Bethany, because I know that Brosca's mother is an abusive drunk, that Hawke takes after their father and mourns their lost sibling. With my Inquisitor, I have to headcanon every single pre-game relationship, which makes her feel rather blank and lifeless.
That said, I meta-game the hell out of Dragon Age and I don't understand why that's a bad thing. If I'm simultaneously telling/experiencing/viewing a story, I'd like the narrative to feel cohesive. That doesn't usually work if I go in not knowing anything.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 5, 2016 8:50:44 GMT
Ah I did something very much like this over on the old forums. With me I always prefer to do Roleplaying as a character rather then a self insert or anything else. Of course I do prefer some background information on the character. That does tend to help me give a little direction to the form my role playing and headcanons. Some little detail on the part of the developers which give me the opprotunity to paint a much more vivid picture myself. Only way to play really. The last thing I need is to play around as boring me.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 5, 2016 15:22:38 GMT
I won't lie, I find your attitude in the paragraphs above a bit condescending towards some players. Since it's their money and their time they decide to give to the game, why should anyone tell them their playstyle "lacks creativity"? And even if it does, so what? Not just condescending, factually incorrect. Wish fulfillment is not the whole point of roleplaying. Roleplaying, at it's very best, is the antithesis of wish fulfillment. The best roleplayers are indistinguishable from improvisational actors. They play a role authentically, even when that role is diametrically opposed to their own likes or dislikes. If the OP had written that what a lot of people enjoy about roleplaying games is wish fulfillment, I'd be in perfect agreement. If that's what was meant, it was poorly worded. It's a shame. The OP accidentally stumbled into an area that would have been interesting to talk about -- how roleplaying games fall short of the ideal of roleplaying, and how that may be because of the framework used to portray PC's. Maybe roleplaying is a bad ideal in the first place. There's certainly a tension between the writing team on the game trying to piece together a compelling narrative and the player's agency. I don't think any studio has found the right formula yet. So what we have are different points on the narrative/agency spectrum, pretty much independent of roleplaying. Role playing is about storytelling, not wish-fulfillment. Which is not to say wish-fulfillment can't be a type of storytelling. But it is far too narrow a definition for "role playing". Plenty of people enjoy stories about people who are very different from who they are in RL.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 5, 2016 16:05:14 GMT
Self Insert
Most people's main characters are reflections of themselves and what they would do in certain situations. This is not a criticism, as the whole point of roleplaying games are wish fulfillment. The issue comes when they *ONLY* play themselves, that even considering other viewpoints is wrong. It isn't just whether they are "good" or "evil", it's any deviation; gender and sexuality, race, politics and religion, idealism vs cynicism, logic vs emotion, etc. The idea that their character must be an insert, and not like a story they write, baffles them. A long with the lack of creativity, I wonder why such players would spend 60 dollars on a game that they only intend to use a quarter of the content. There is also the fact that many players who Self Insert also Meta-Game; i.e. they intentionally spoil themselves with wikis and walthroughs in order get their desired outcome, rather than playing the game organically. I won't lie, I've done this a few times in the past, but only when I had trouble otherwise. It's your money, you can play however you want to. But if you're not going to actually play the game, why buy it at all? Why not just watch Let's Plays and write fanfiction? I won't lie, I find your attitude in the paragraphs above a bit condescending towards some players. Since it's their money and their time they decide to give to the game, why should anyone tell them their playstyle "lacks creativity"? And even if it does, so what? Umm, if you read the next section you would see that I pointed out how certain Role Players judge Elf Insert Players *is* a problem . There are no right or wrong ways to play Role Playing Games. I want to explore the positives and negatives of each approach, to get a better understanding of why it works best for each individual. Lacking creativity doesn't have to be negative in of itself, as it can lead to tighter focus on what the game is actually about. You could argue the fact that Kratos cannot* stealthily evade enemies or that players have no options for a Lawful Good run in any Grand Theft Auto game lacks creativity. Yes, such choices would go against the whole point of their respective franchises, but you can't tell me that no one has never wished for the options, just for varieties' sake. A good RPG allows for any type of playstyle, from fighting enemies to avoiding, tricking, bribing or befriending them. I'll admit I have trouble understanding why some Self Insert Only Players consider choose A instead of B in a fictional video game to be some kind of betrayal of their real world values. It's not even about "good" or "evil" runs, as there are numerous personality types that can still be heroic and moral. I would like these players to share their reasoning and get a better understanding. Which is why I started the thread in the first place .
*My experience with the God of War games is limited, so if Kratos does have any stealth missions, feel free to correct me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2016 16:46:40 GMT
It depends. I feel most games would benefit from a background to work off of but sometimes having a blank slate is nice too.
I think i prefer the in between, a little bit of background but enough that there is still a lot of parts of the background to fill in like you would have to do with a blank slate.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 6, 2016 5:32:25 GMT
I forgot to add that one of the things which helps me role play easier and come up with headcanon is a character's voice. So the prevelance of voiced protagonists in RPGs becoming more and more of a thing is a welcome addition to me. The voice just helps me come up with the character.
And since I am on the subject while I do not do self inserts, preffering to role play my characters, the closest I ever came to doing a self insert is with my last Inquisitor. One Kara Trevelyan. Who happens to be a person of the female persuasion while I am a manly manly manly man. I used her to sort out a lot of crap going on in my life at the time.
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Post by Zikade on Nov 6, 2016 12:46:44 GMT
I prefer a mix between roleplaying and provided background. Some sort of background helps me roleplay easier and keep the character consistent with his/her development but I also like there to be some leeway for me to fill the gaps and interpret things. I liked how in DA:O and Mass Effect you faced characters and gained quests depending of the protagonists background. I disliked how the Inquisitor never met anyone from his/her past... the only thing being War table missions which didn't affect anything. The Dalish one is really sad actually because you may even get your whole clan killed and no one bats an eye. "Oh well, all in a day's work. Have a shitty belt as a reward."
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Post by HYR on Nov 6, 2016 16:39:38 GMT
RP'ing, but self-insertion is a factor as well. I prefer my protagonist to hold the same or similar values as myself, but to remain their own unique characters all the same.
*edit'd -- accidently wrote "antagonist" oops*
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Post by Ponendus on Nov 6, 2016 23:05:51 GMT
I forgot to add that one of the things which helps me role play easier and come up with headcanon is a character's voice. So the prevelance of voiced protagonists in RPGs becoming more and more of a thing is a welcome addition to me. The voice just helps me come up with the character. I totally get that, but for me it's the opposite. I much prefer a silent antagonist so I can imagine the voice (sometimes even speak and create the inflection in my head). Eh, different strokes for different folks I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2016 5:24:12 GMT
RP'ing, but self-insertion is a factor as well. I prefer my protagonist to hold the same or similar values as myself, but to remain their own unique characters all the same. *edit'd -- accidently wrote "antagonist" oops* Meh, most of my character's have my same morality, but that's basically it, and my Quizzie was the canon that showed my increasing frustration with everything in game, lol. (aka, my angrier and annoyance at the mages, my disliking of the doing the bloody Temple of Mythal puzzles, etc).
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Post by Sah291 on Nov 7, 2016 17:06:11 GMT
I like a mix of provided background and roleplaying. Having a little bit provided at the start just makes for a better experience for me...because it allows other characters in game to respond to yours in ways they couldn't otherwise.
As for the RP part, I do tend to base my characters on an archetype...usually because the other characters tend to be based on them, so I will try to mold mine to something that plays off the rest of the cast well, if I can.
Yes I'm sure something of myself goes into my characters, though, even if they aren't exactly self inserts...but it's more a general part of my personality that I'm putting into it, and not necessarily the same decisions I would make...I base choices on other things, like what I think makes a good story or character arc.
There are some games where I will self insert, if the PC is a very blank slate, and does not have much room to express personality. I tend to approach those in a very meta way, yes.
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