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0
Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
1,677
cloud9
3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Jan 27, 2017 21:14:38 GMT
First of all the whole "forcing to dump slaves overboard to save herself" thing is very degrading that they intended to make her more of a bad person and it degrades the history of slavery by having a woman of color killing slaves and on top of that she stole the relic and it caused the Qunari to wreak havoc on Kirkwall. The writers are very malicious with Isabela's character development. As I pointed out, dumping the slaves was the last resort and she did to to save both herself and her crew. They'd have all been hanged for a crime that none of them had committed, but were only guilty by association. She didn't think her crew should have to face execution for following her orders... and while she was more culpable, she was following orders by agreeing to deliver Devon's cargo, no questions asked. Isabela killing slaves degrades the history of slavery? I take it that in your fantasy revisionist view of history, it conveniently leaves out the small detail that there have been countless examples of civilisations and nations engaging in slavery during antiquity, who happened to be people of colour? You also seem to have forgotten that the primary reason why Isabela stole the relic was to repay Castillon, since she'd freed a consignment of slaves she discovered being transported in her convey and costing him a fortune in the process. No-one could have foreseen that by freeing slaves and by trying to repay him with the Tome of Koslun, the Qunari would have followed her into a storm, gotten them both wrecked off the Wounded Coast, leading them to both to get stuck in the city looking for it, before the Arishok finally lost all patience and attacked the city. (Although where Kevin Bacon fits into that six degrees of separation is still unclear) It's true that Isabela stealing the Tome (again) did infuriate the Qunari, but as Aveline comments during that very mission, the speed in which they moved through the city and the coordination of the attack made it clear that they had to have been planning this for some time. The Arishok even states as early as Act 1 that the city "may demand certainty". I hardly think the writers were deliberate attempting to character assassinate Isabela. She's clearly shown to be remorseful of her actions and haunted by this bit of her past... and from a woman who considers thievery, smuggling and the odd bit of murder as her profession, her regret at killing those slaves does seem genuine. But that's still shitty and justifying it isn't going to change the fact what she did is fucked up and wrong. And she never shown moral restraint to stop being greedy and she's the only companion that turns out to be a bad person (@ least Blackwall had the courage to pay for his crimes), and another thing they write her to only to be disgusting, greedy, and selfish. Like come on it's bad enough that she's a racial stereotype.
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0
Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
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3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Jan 27, 2017 21:21:57 GMT
Whatever you say is unnecessary. He do not understand, or he's malicious. Leave him alone, he will disappear, you can not convince a fool or a provocateur. Finally! Thank ya Lord! Praise Jesus!
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2017 21:29:18 GMT
But that's still shitty and justifying it isn't going to change the fact what she did is fucked up and wrong. And she never shown moral restraint to stop being greedy and she's the only companion that turns out to be a bad person (@ least Blackwall had the courage to pay for his crimes), and another thing they write her to only to be disgusting, greedy, and selfish. Like come on it's bad enough that she's a racial stereotype. Racial stereotype? Who says that all Human disgusting, greedy and selfish? I'm sure, it was this filthy knife ears! Or the oxen.
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Scribbles
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0
Apr 30, 2024 19:24:23 GMT
30,247
Hanako Ikezawa
22,355
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 27, 2017 21:46:57 GMT
But that's still shitty and justifying it isn't going to change the fact what she did is fucked up and wrong. And she never shown moral restraint to stop being greedy and she's the only companion that turns out to be a bad person (@ least Blackwall had the courage to pay for his crimes), and another thing they write her to only to be disgusting, greedy, and selfish. Like come on it's bad enough that she's a racial stereotype. You know, if you kept your original post which I underlined I would have agreed with you fully. But you just had to add some of this other stuff, didn't you?
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Champion of Kirkwall
1212
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8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Jan 28, 2017 7:32:12 GMT
But that's still shitty and justifying it isn't going to change the fact what she did is fucked up and wrong. And she never shown moral restraint to stop being greedy and she's the only companion that turns out to be a bad person ( @ least Blackwall had the courage to pay for his crimes), and another thing they write her to only to be disgusting, greedy, and selfish. Like come on it's bad enough that she's a racial stereotype. Blackwall willingly chose to assassinate a man for money, let his men to take the fall for him when the mission went south, then assumed a dead man's identity for over 5 years. He did eventually become a better person and decide to fess up to save one of his men from the hangman's noose, but it took him a long time to get there. Isabela can have a similar change of heart at the end of Act 2, depending on her relationship with Hawke. Even though safe in the wind with the Tome of Koslun in her possession, which she could use to pay off her debt to Castillon and exchange for a new ship, she shows courage by returning and placing herself in danger, hoping the Qunari will be placated by the return of the Tome. So have to disagree that she's a bad person, even though her greed is her primary flaw (again, she's a friggin' Pirate!). As for her being a "racial stereotype", what doesn't constitute that in your mind? You've thus far accused Elves and Rivain as being ethnic stereotypes for people of colour... next it'll probably be the Casteless Dwarves and the Darkspawn, since they're likewise being oppressed, amiright? Man, if the Dalish ever go to war with the City Elves and the Rivaini, your mind will probably implode from the paradox.
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August 2016
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 30, 2017 15:11:16 GMT
A n y w a y, what's your favorite class for romancing Isabela?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 20:40:19 GMT
A n y w a y, what's your favorite class for romancing Isabela? Mage. What kind of romance do you like better with Isabella, rivalry or friendship? I pefer rivalry. It makes her a better person.
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Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
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Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Jan 31, 2017 21:12:20 GMT
But that's still shitty and justifying it isn't going to change the fact what she did is fucked up and wrong. And she never shown moral restraint to stop being greedy and she's the only companion that turns out to be a bad person (@ least Blackwall had the courage to pay for his crimes), and another thing they write her to only to be disgusting, greedy, and selfish. Like come on it's bad enough that she's a racial stereotype. Racial stereotype? Who says that all Human disgusting, greedy and selfish? I'm sure, it was this filthy knife ears! Or the oxen. Feign ignorance eh?
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Champion of Kirkwall
1212
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8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Jan 31, 2017 21:44:00 GMT
A n y w a y, what's your favorite class for romancing Isabela? Mage. What kind of romance do you like better with Isabella, rivalry or friendship? I pefer rivalry. It makes her a better person. Mage as well, but on the friendship path.
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Wanted Apostate
127
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18,242
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 31, 2017 22:21:28 GMT
Mage. What kind of romance do you like better with Isabella, rivalry or friendship? I pefer rivalry. It makes her a better person. Mage as well, but on the friendship path. I think, friendship better with her if Hawke not really "lawful", rivalry better, if Hawke is more "lawful". My Hawkes are friend with her. I don't have lawful Hawke. She will better person in both case, but Hawke neutral/chaotic I would feel hypocrite in rivalry with her. Maybe I'm wrong. (No romance experience.)
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January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 1:18:05 GMT
Racial stereotype? Who says that all Human disgusting, greedy and selfish? I'm sure, it was this filthy knife ears! Or the oxen. Feign ignorance eh?
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0
Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
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cloud9
3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 2, 2017 7:06:20 GMT
But that's still shitty and justifying it isn't going to change the fact what she did is fucked up and wrong. And she never shown moral restraint to stop being greedy and she's the only companion that turns out to be a bad person ( @ least Blackwall had the courage to pay for his crimes), and another thing they write her to only to be disgusting, greedy, and selfish. Like come on it's bad enough that she's a racial stereotype. Blackwall willingly chose to assassinate a man for money, let his men to take the fall for him when the mission went south, then assumed a dead man's identity for over 5 years. He did eventually become a better person and decide to fess up to save one of his men from the hangman's noose, but it took him a long time to get there. Isabela can have a similar change of heart at the end of Act 2, depending on her relationship with Hawke. Even though safe in the wind with the Tome of Koslun in her possession, which she could use to pay off her debt to Castillon and exchange for a new ship, she shows courage by returning and placing herself in danger, hoping the Qunari will be placated by the return of the Tome. So have to disagree that she's a bad person, even though her greed is her primary flaw (again, she's a friggin' Pirate!). As for her being a "racial stereotype", what doesn't constitute that in your mind? You've thus far accused Elves and Rivain as being ethnic stereotypes for people of colour... next it'll probably be the Casteless Dwarves and the Darkspawn, since they're likewise being oppressed, amiright?
Man, if the Dalish ever go to war with the City Elves and the Rivaini, your mind will probably implode from the paradox. You know what I meant by what I said.
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Apr 30, 2024 19:15:04 GMT
1,672
Walter Black
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Sept 15, 2016 15:02:16 GMT
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 3, 2017 7:19:14 GMT
Anyone know if Sheryl Chee had Isabela's dumping the slaves in her character bible, or David Gaider specifically retconned it in?
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Bookaholic: 1776 Edition
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Apr 16, 2019 17:41:17 GMT
3,352
fiannawolf
For I am the Reading Rainbow.
1,608
January 2017
fiannawolf
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
N7 Ghostwolf
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Post by fiannawolf on Feb 3, 2017 19:43:22 GMT
Izzy was the best thing about DA2 for me. My Cousland warden had Alibear, Mage Lady Hawke has Izzy and my Inquisitor had Hinterlands Bears.
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8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Feb 3, 2017 20:04:27 GMT
Anyone know if Sheryl Chee had Isabela's dumping the slaves in her character bible, or David Gaider specifically retconned it in? My suspicion is that it was Gaider. Speaking of retcons, part of me wonders if he intended it to be the same incident mentioned in DA2? Although the details don't really line up, such as Devon being the slaver (not Castillon) and it only involving her ship (rather than a convoy), which makes me think it could have been two different incidents. Does at more reason why she'd want to free Castillon's slaves, to try to alleviate the guilt over the deaths of the others she was responsible for. (Unless the inconsistencies are down to Varric altering the details in his book to make Isabela more sympathetic)
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Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 3, 2017 23:06:00 GMT
A n y w a y, what's your favorite class for romancing Isabela? Mage. What kind of romance do you like better with Isabella, rivalry or friendship? I pefer rivalry. It makes her a better person. I think I prefer her with a mage, too. Which is kind of a shame, because I also really like her relationship with Bethany. But out of all of DA2's LIs, Bela is the one to whom Hawke's magey-ness just doesn't seem like A Big Deal. I like that. I like her on the friendship path with snarky and aggressive Hawkes, and on the rivalry path with diplomatic and aggressive Hawkes. Anyone know if Sheryl Chee had Isabela's dumping the slaves in her character bible, or David Gaider specifically retconned it in? My suspicion is that it was Gaider. Speaking of retcons, part of me wonders if he intended it to be the same incident mentioned in DA2? Although the details don't really line up, such as Devon being the slaver (not Castillon) and it only involving her ship (rather than a convoy), which makes me think it could have been two different incidents. Does at more reason why she'd want to free Castillon's slaves, to try to alleviate the guilt over the deaths of the others she was responsible for. (Unless the inconsistencies are down to Varric altering the details in his book to make Isabela more sympathetic) I always figured that the incident mentioned in DA2 was at least partially guilt-based, and that they were two separate incidents.
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Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 3, 2017 23:07:37 GMT
Izzy was the best thing about DA2 for me. My Cousland warden had Alibear, Mage Lady Hawke has Izzy and my Inquisitor had Hinterlands Bears. They're called Great Bears for a reason.
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January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2017 23:50:50 GMT
Mage. What kind of romance do you like better with Isabella, rivalry or friendship? I pefer rivalry. It makes her a better person. I think I prefer her with a mage, too. Which is kind of a shame, because I also really like her relationship with Bethany. But out of all of DA2's LIs, Bela is the one to whom Hawke's magey-ness just doesn't seem like A Big Deal. I like that. I like her on the friendship path with snarky and aggressive Hawkes, and on the rivalry path with diplomatic and aggressive Hawkes. I did a rivalry with her as a snarky male mage.. it was fun...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 3:52:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2017 4:18:22 GMT
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Apr 13, 2024 10:00:53 GMT
1,677
cloud9
3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2017 7:12:54 GMT
First of all the whole "forcing to dump slaves overboard to save herself" thing is very degrading that they intended to make her more of a bad person and it degrades the history of slavery by having a woman of color killing slaves and on top of that she stole the relic and it caused the Qunari to wreak havoc on Kirkwall. The writers are very malicious with Isabela's character development. As I pointed out, dumping the slaves was the last resort and she did to to save both herself and her crew. They'd have all been hanged for a crime that none of them had committed, but were only guilty by association. She didn't think her crew should have to face execution for following her orders... and while she was more culpable, she was following orders by agreeing to deliver Devon's cargo, no questions asked. Isabela killing slaves degrades the history of slavery? I take it that in your fantasy revisionist view of history, it conveniently leaves out the small detail that there have been countless examples of civilisations and nations engaging in slavery during antiquity, who happened to be people of colour? You also seem to have forgotten that the primary reason why Isabela stole the relic was to repay Castillon, since she'd freed a consignment of slaves she discovered being transported in her convey and costing him a fortune in the process. No-one could have foreseen that by freeing slaves and by trying to repay him with the Tome of Koslun, the Qunari would have followed her into a storm, gotten them both wrecked off the Wounded Coast, leading them to both to get stuck in the city looking for it, before the Arishok finally lost all patience and attacked the city. (Although where Kevin Bacon fits into that six degrees of separation is still unclear) It's true that Isabela stealing the Tome (again) did infuriate the Qunari, but as Aveline comments during that very mission, the speed in which they moved through the city and the coordination of the attack made it clear that they had to have been planning this for some time. The Arishok even states as early as Act 1 that the city "may demand certainty". I hardly think the writers were deliberate attempting to character assassinate Isabela. She's clearly shown to be remorseful of her actions and haunted by this bit of her past... and from a woman who considers thievery, smuggling and the odd bit of murder as her profession, her regret at killing those slaves does seem genuine. They didn't character assassinate her they mean what they do and it says a lot about them since they made her a stereotype and they do have malicious content.
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Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Mar 8, 2017 9:42:05 GMT
Izzy was the best thing about DA2 for me. My Cousland warden had Alibear, Mage Lady Hawke has Izzy and my Inquisitor had Hinterlands Bears. Don't forget Varric, who has a bear living on his chest. His chest-bear, if you will.
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August 2016
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 9, 2017 15:27:03 GMT
I can't remember if I posted this here already, so I'm going to post it again.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Mar 11, 2017 21:43:53 GMT
vertigomezSO MANY FEELZ. *chokes up a bit* I can't wait to do her romance. OH MY GOSH, why am I even playing other games when I love Dragon Age so friggen much?!
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Post by vertigomez on Mar 11, 2017 22:02:47 GMT
vertigomez SO MANY FEELZ. *chokes up a bit* I can't wait to do her romance. OH MY GOSH, why am I even playing other games when I love Dragon Age so friggen much?! That's what I ask myself every time I get distracted by a new franchise. Also: romance her, dooo eet, so worth it!
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