N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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n7pathfinder
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 2, 2019 17:39:42 GMT
To be fair, Hitler was also an idiot as a leader.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 2, 2019 18:10:43 GMT
Oh yeah, what a bumbling fool he was.
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 2, 2019 20:24:47 GMT
To be fair, Hitler was also an idiot as a leader. The Hitler comparison is forced. This contradicts Palp's portrayal in the Prequel trilogy, and Clone Wars series.
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N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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n7pathfinder
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 2, 2019 21:06:08 GMT
To be fair, Hitler was also an idiot as a leader. The Hitler comparison is forced. This contradicts Palp's portrayal in the Prequel trilogy, and Clone Wars series. Well, what I meant was while both had some pretty cunning rises to power, the actual LEADERSHIP once they gained that power was pretty bad. If anything, Palpatine had almost ZERO control or involvement in the original trilogy (save for his appearance at Return of the Jedi). At least Snoke was actually giving orders and his ship was in command of the First Order fleet in Last Jedi. Hitler had a pretty similar situation. He took advantage of Germany's weakened financial position following WW1 and used it to fuel his rise to the top brass through a campaign of fear-mongering and tyranny. Then he started to try and expand the empire beyond Germany and as a result, lead Germany into a second World War they might have won IF Hitler didn't make the stupid decision to simultaneously attack two fronts at once, thus resulting in a chain of events that lead to Germany's defeat.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 2, 2019 21:30:41 GMT
The Hitler comparison is forced. This contradicts Palp's portrayal in the Prequel trilogy, and Clone Wars series. Well, what I meant was while both had some pretty cunning rises to power, the actual LEADERSHIP once they gained that power was pretty bad. If anything, Palpatine had almost ZERO control or involvement in the original trilogy (save for his appearance at Return of the Jedi). At least Snoke was actually giving orders and his ship was in command of the First Order fleet in Last Jedi. I have to disagree. If anything Palpatine made himself too central in the leadership of the Empire, hence part of why it collapses so quickly after his "death". And yes, Palpatine relied on others like the Grand Moffs to help govern but that's because he was running an entire galaxy while Snoke was just running a small part of it.
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 2, 2019 22:10:33 GMT
The Hitler comparison is forced. This contradicts Palp's portrayal in the Prequel trilogy, and Clone Wars series. Well, what I meant was while both had some pretty cunning rises to power, the actual LEADERSHIP once they gained that power was pretty bad. If anything, Palpatine had almost ZERO control or involvement in the original trilogy (save for his appearance at Return of the Jedi). At least Snoke was actually giving orders and his ship was in command of the First Order fleet in Last Jedi. Hitler had a pretty similar situation. He took advantage of Germany's weakened financial position following WW1 and used it to fuel his rise to the top brass through a campaign of fear-mongering and tyranny. Then he started to try and expand the empire beyond Germany and as a result, lead Germany into a second World War they might have won IF Hitler didn't make the stupid decision to simultaneously attack two fronts at once, thus resulting in a chain of events that lead to Germany's defeat. The difference between Palpatine and Hitler is that Palpatine orchestrated the decline of the Republic through constant warfare with another organization that he manipulated too, and succeeded. Not only that he had to hide his abilities from and then sabotage the Jedi Order. The JO is an organization that is dedicated to tracking and killing people like him for thousands of years, and he had it destroyed in two decades. In the end Palpatine was only defeated because the second coming of Force Jesus was his adversary along with fate (prophecy). Both are genocidal dictators but the comparisons after that become strained when you compare the scope of Palpatine's scheme, his intellect, and the capabilities of those who would oppose him. If Hitler had Ferdinand assassinated, manipulated all of Europe into open warfare, manufactured Germany's defeat, created the Weimar Republic all in a gambit to become chancellor, and conquered the world afterward then yeah they are very similar, but in reality he's just an opportunist.
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Post by Serza on Oct 2, 2019 22:36:12 GMT
Oya Manda.
That is all.
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 2, 2019 22:45:46 GMT
Also i read the Doctor Aphra issue that rustled my jimmies and that Screen Rant writer is full of shit. The article is essentially click bait. The propaganda minister character in question while suffering from delusions of grandeur was manipulated by the titular character into revealing her villainous plot against Palpatine on a hidden speaker to a hidden Vader who promptly executed her. The character was lame.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 2, 2019 23:28:52 GMT
Also i read the Doctor Aphra issue that rustled my jimmies and that Screen Rant writer is full of shit. The article is essentially click bait. The propaganda minister character in question while suffering from delusions of grandeur was manipulated by the titular character into revealing her villainous plot against Palpatine on a hidden speaker to a hidden Vader who promptly executed her. The character was lame. Oh thank goodness
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docsteely
N6
Retired Birthday Wizard
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: docsteely/HKyouma-san
XBL Gamertag: docsteely
PSN: docsteely
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Post by docsteely on Oct 3, 2019 1:27:33 GMT
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 3, 2019 6:54:03 GMT
The Mouse seems hell bent on destroying the Star Wars franchise.
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 3, 2019 20:52:05 GMT
Disney ever dumbing down Palpatine to promote one of their original creations would have been worse than the combined inclusion of Triclops, Trioculus and Zorba the Hutt to the late EU's lore.
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House Targaryen
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Oct 4, 2019 17:53:27 GMT
The big game player is now a bumbling fool. Awesome work Disney.
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Post by mybudgee on Oct 6, 2019 2:57:59 GMT
The thing about rumors is; they're usually true
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Post by masterwarderz on Oct 6, 2019 16:51:20 GMT
Well, what I meant was while both had some pretty cunning rises to power, the actual LEADERSHIP once they gained that power was pretty bad. If anything, Palpatine had almost ZERO control or involvement in the original trilogy (save for his appearance at Return of the Jedi). At least Snoke was actually giving orders and his ship was in command of the First Order fleet in Last Jedi. Hitler had a pretty similar situation. He took advantage of Germany's weakened financial position following WW1 and used it to fuel his rise to the top brass through a campaign of fear-mongering and tyranny. Then he started to try and expand the empire beyond Germany and as a result, lead Germany into a second World War they might have won IF Hitler didn't make the stupid decision to simultaneously attack two fronts at once, thus resulting in a chain of events that lead to Germany's defeat. The difference between Palpatine and Hitler is that Palpatine orchestrated the decline of the Republic through constant warfare with another organization that he manipulated too, and succeeded. Not only that he had to hide his abilities from and then sabotage the Jedi Order. The JO is an organization that is dedicated to tracking and killing people like him for thousands of years, and he had it destroyed in two decades. In the end Palpatine was only defeated because the second coming of Force Jesus was his adversary along with fate (prophecy). Both are genocidal dictators but the comparisons after that become strained when you compare the scope of Palpatine's scheme, his intellect, and the capabilities of those who would oppose him. If Hitler had Ferdinand assassinated, manipulated all of Europe into open warfare, manufactured Germany's defeat, created the Weimar Republic all in a gambit to become chancellor, and conquered the world afterward then yeah they are very similar, but in reality he's just an opportunist. To be fair while Palpatine was its final actor, the Sith "Grand Design, or Great Plan" as it was coined across the millennia was put into motion with the formation of his order. From Bane to Palpatine they were slowly undermining and whittling away at the Republic and Jedi, ensuring that while it might take multiple generations, it might take, decades, centuries or even longer eventually a Sith would rule the galaxy. .___. That to me is one of the most interesting aspects of Palpatine is that while he was not solely responsible for being in the position he was placed within during the final days of the Republic he was the one who put into the motions that finally saw Bane's vision realized.
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N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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n7pathfinder
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 6, 2019 23:48:16 GMT
Unlike a lot of Star Wars fans, I’ve never grown attached to the characters of Star Wars. The main reason I became a Star Wars fan as a kid was the series unique planets, spaceships, gadgets and aliens that I have never seen before. So I’m less of a character guy, and have always been more of a world guy. That’s partly why I’m slightly more forgiving with other Star Wars stories outside of the original trilogy. While they may not be the best stories, I’ve always been more interested in exploring what new parts of the Star Wars galaxy I can see, and how these stories tie into the larger history of Star Wars.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 7, 2019 4:32:22 GMT
Starting the saga again from the beginning. For some reason.
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Post by mybudgee on Oct 8, 2019 0:57:27 GMT
Unlike a lot of Star Wars fans, I’ve never grown attached to the characters of Star Wars. The main reason I became a Star Wars fan as a kid was the series unique planets, spaceships, gadgets and aliens that I have never seen before. So I’m less of a character guy, and have always been more of a world guy. That’s partly why I’m slightly more forgiving with other Star Wars stories outside of the original trilogy. While they may not be the best stories, I’ve always been more interested in exploring what new parts of the Star Wars galaxy I can see, and how these stories tie into the larger history of Star Wars. Point taken. However... Does this make you unable to recognize awful writing which is pandering to the lowest common denominator? (the Sequel trilogy)
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N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 8, 2019 4:29:19 GMT
Unlike a lot of Star Wars fans, I’ve never grown attached to the characters of Star Wars. The main reason I became a Star Wars fan as a kid was the series unique planets, spaceships, gadgets and aliens that I have never seen before. So I’m less of a character guy, and have always been more of a world guy. That’s partly why I’m slightly more forgiving with other Star Wars stories outside of the original trilogy. While they may not be the best stories, I’ve always been more interested in exploring what new parts of the Star Wars galaxy I can see, and how these stories tie into the larger history of Star Wars. Point taken. However... Does this make you unable to recognize awful writing which is pandering to the lowest common denominator? (the Sequel trilogy) Well, I'm not a movie critic by profession, and throughout my childhood, my perception of "bad vs good" is a little mixed (I mean, I watch Bollywood for chrissakes!) And as I mentioned, I've never been the kind of person to attach to characters specifically, mainly because in doing so, you end up creating this idealized version of a character that will never exist. So when I judge the writing of the sequel trilogy, I don't base it on how I viewed or expected the characters to behave in my head, rather if what they do or what gets revealed feels like a natural progression of their character. Many of the new characters are pretty weak in my opinion, but for many of the progressions of the classic characters like Luke, I was pretty fine with. I personally think Luke was handled better than Han in the sequels, especially since Luke was given a proper arc which ends with him forgiving himself and sacrificing his life for the good of the galaxy, whereas Han was just killed off, albiet in a pretty dramatic, character-driven moment though. As for how Disney's sequels present the world, I do definitely think they were leaning a bit more towards nostalgia with essentially an Empire 2.0 and a Rebellion 2.0, but the ideas behind the First Order and Resistance are solid ideas. I just wish the films actually gave us scenes that better clarified what made these factions unique, maybe a scene in Force Awakens in which Leia tries to convince the New Republic for aid, but they refuse due to the First Order being a relatively small threat at the time and probably bring up how Leia just made a private Resistance behind the Republic's back. Not only would that clarify what the First Order and the Resistance truly are, but it would also make the payoff of when the New Republic gets obliterated much more powerful. Plus, I also have to be really careful in what I consider a rip-off vs an homage. I think a lot of the scenes from Force Awakens are more homages than rip-offs primarily because while they scenes feel similar to A New Hope, their purposes are often different. Luke wanted to leave Tantooine, Rey wanted to go back Jaaku. The Mos Eisley Cantina brought everyone together, Maz's Cantina was where everybody got separated. And while I do think they could have come up with a better threat in the first movie than yet another Death Star, the idea of turning an ENTIRE PLANET into a super-weapon is still kind of cool! This is just a long way of me saying that my perception on Star Wars is not the same as you. While most "fans" see character expectations unrealized or lack of original plot elements, I see general character progression and ways the sequels tie/pay tribute to their original films.
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 8, 2019 5:38:09 GMT
The difference between Palpatine and Hitler is that Palpatine orchestrated the decline of the Republic through constant warfare with another organization that he manipulated too, and succeeded. Not only that he had to hide his abilities from and then sabotage the Jedi Order. The JO is an organization that is dedicated to tracking and killing people like him for thousands of years, and he had it destroyed in two decades. In the end Palpatine was only defeated because the second coming of Force Jesus was his adversary along with fate (prophecy). Both are genocidal dictators but the comparisons after that become strained when you compare the scope of Palpatine's scheme, his intellect, and the capabilities of those who would oppose him. If Hitler had Ferdinand assassinated, manipulated all of Europe into open warfare, manufactured Germany's defeat, created the Weimar Republic all in a gambit to become chancellor, and conquered the world afterward then yeah they are very similar, but in reality he's just an opportunist. To be fair while Palpatine was its final actor, the Sith "Grand Design, or Great Plan" as it was coined across the millennia was put into motion with the formation of his order. From Bane to Palpatine they were slowly undermining and whittling away at the Republic and Jedi, ensuring that while it might take multiple generations, it might take, decades, centuries or even longer eventually a Sith would rule the galaxy. .___. That to me is one of the most interesting aspects of Palpatine is that while he was not solely responsible for being in the position he was placed within during the final days of the Republic he was the one who put into the motions that finally saw Bane's vision realized. Very true for the EU but does the generational sabotage from Bane's sucessors still apply to Disney's canon, did they ever address this plot point?
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 8, 2019 14:25:01 GMT
Also, if Bane is still canon can the same be said of his entire novel?
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N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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n7pathfinder
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 8, 2019 14:49:14 GMT
Also, if Bane is still canon can the same be said of his entire novel? It’s weird to say the least. From my understanding, Bane is canon, but not his novel, similar to how Thrawn and Malachor are canon, but not the original source materials they came from.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 12,651
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 8, 2019 15:06:34 GMT
So a Darth Bane existed and established the Rule of Two, but nothing of the events of his rise or life are officially part of canon.
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Post by Hier0phant on Oct 8, 2019 16:39:53 GMT
Also, if Bane is still canon can the same be said of his entire novel? It’s weird to say the least. From my understanding, Bane is canon, but not his novel, similar to how Thrawn and Malachor are canon, but not the original source materials they came from. So a Darth Bane existed and established the Rule of Two, but nothing of the events of his rise or life are officially part of canon. Darths Zannah and Cognus are stuck in limbo.
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N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Oct 9, 2019 4:43:30 GMT
While I personally hope Rise of Skywalker still does financial well and tells a good story that MIGHT win some of the old-fanbase back, I think our hopes should be mostly towards the upcoming Star Wars films post-Skywalker saga, as reportedly, these will be completely separate and standalone adventures that should hopefully incite fans to check out without fear of having their precious Original Trilogy tarnished.
Personally, I think the best stuff have always been the stuff outside of the Skywalker saga.
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