inherit
113
0
8,457
Hier0phant
3,822
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 16, 2019 18:21:22 GMT
Jake Skywalker is shitty character development. His psychotic nephew has his sights set on his family, but instead of putting him down and grieving afterwards, Luke decides to mope around while the little monster he helped to create goes on a murderous rampage across the galaxy. Then he dies because he exhausted himself while projecting a hologram, a feat that a standard astro droid is capable of.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 16, 2019 19:29:29 GMT
Jake Skywalker is shitty character development. His psychotic nephew has his sights set on his family, but instead of putting him down and grieving afterwards, Luke decides to mope around while the little monster he helped to create goes on a murderous rampage across the galaxy. Then he dies because he exhausted himself while projecting a hologram, a feat that a standard astro droid is capable of. Luke was far more Luke in the EU's Darth Caedus storyline. And I wasn't even a particular fan of that!
|
|
inherit
11346
0
1,347
skekSil
1,147
November 2019
skeksil
Mass Effect Trilogy, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by skekSil on Dec 16, 2019 20:39:32 GMT
A particularly silly statement given I listed SEVERAL directions they could have taken Luke. So yeah, I didn't have a "Certain way" in mind. They are similar enough to to call it "certain way" So, he did not say that RJ "f*cked up".
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 16, 2019 23:22:29 GMT
|
|
eternalgoddess
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 505 Likes: 783
inherit
2391
0
783
eternalgoddess
505
December 2016
eternalgoddess
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by eternalgoddess on Dec 17, 2019 1:27:49 GMT
Seen some images from Star Wars leaks reddit turns out JP leaks were right on the money after all.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,457
Hier0phant
3,822
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Dec 17, 2019 3:08:16 GMT
Jake Skywalker is shitty character development. His psychotic nephew has his sights set on his family, but instead of putting him down and grieving afterwards, Luke decides to mope around while the little monster he helped to create goes on a murderous rampage across the galaxy. Then he dies because he exhausted himself while projecting a hologram, a feat that a standard astro droid is capable of. Luke was far more Luke in the EU's Darth Caedus storyline. And I wasn't even a particular fan of that! Remember that time when after Luke French Revoution'd his psycho ex girlfriend he walked in on his nephew domming his son, but was too depressed to beat him to death and left that as a task for his niece accomplish instead? Good times. Oh and then he had a mid life crisis, and went on a sabbatical that placed him in conflict with a psychotic force goddess who was exiled by her family because they grew tired of her perpetual that time of the month attitude.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,259
colfoley
16,577
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2019 3:26:57 GMT
Not to that radical a degree. Not to the point of COMPLETELY undermining his entire character development over the course of the trilogy. Sure Kenobi changed. But not that radically. Heck one of the greatest tings about the prequel trilogy was how believable Ewan Macgregor was as a young Obi Wan. Yoda was totally trolling Luke and I think you know it. It was a test to get a feel for Luke's attitude. Notice how much more solemn his demeanor became at the prospect of training him. but my point still stands such a change of personality and beliefs is possible in a span of 30 years. "Subvert your expectations", eh? If you expect a movie to be certain way of course it would look worse if it doesnt follow those expectations, even if that movie was great. It is better to go to movies with as little expectations as possible. Hell, even JJ Abrams thought RJ f*cked up. What exactly did he say? Money solves everything, I guess He gave away his rights to franchise - his Word of God, so to say. So dragging out old Lukas' ideas is silly. Great SG-1 pic by the way. And I agree. Its best to not let your expectations consume you. I had my theories about who Rey was and what her place in the story was, the Last Jedi proved them wrong, the franchise is better off for it...moving on. (lets hope JJ doesen't mess it up). Anyways I am all caught up with the movies, just finished episode 8 last night. Finished it grinning like an idiot.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,259
colfoley
16,577
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2019 3:39:35 GMT
Hell since we are still continuing the Luke debate watching the entire series, probably for the first time since TLJ even came out made me consider a few new things. Obi-Wan and Yoda *fell* just as hard as Luke. Sure we have the benefit of not having to watch them sit in their isolation for years upon years, stewing in their isolation and their failure, but it still happened. Obi-Wan and Yoda was there at the end of the Old Repubic, they watched the rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi Order. They failed to notice that a Dark Lord of the Sith became Chancellor of the Republic Obi-Wan more specifically left his friend, his padawan, his brother to burn in the firey lava of Mustafar rather then A. putting him out of his misery or B. trying to save him like Palpatine ended up doing. All the vaunted love and the compassion of the Jedi Order was renowned for failed when he let him burn because he was already lost...he believed in the dogma of the Jedi Order about light and dark...and his friend paid the price for it. Their reaction to all this failure? Sitting in isolation on their respective planets, not doing a thing as the Empire tore the Galaxy apart. Sure maybe the Disney series on Obi-Wan will change this context and sure Obi was a bit quick to start training Luke when he was offered...but they still sat there for decades. Because of the horrible things they did. The irony of course being that both men kept to their old dogma in regards of Vader...'then the Emperor has already won'...and similar statements to the effect. Love both men, but they were a bit stubbourn when it came to learning from their failures.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 4:00:53 GMT
Hell since we are still continuing the Luke debate watching the entire series, probably for the first time since TLJ even came out made me consider a few new things. Obi-Wan and Yoda *fell* just as hard as Luke. Sure we have the benefit of not having to watch them sit in their isolation for years upon years, stewing in their isolation and their failure, but it still happened. Obi-Wan and Yoda was there at the end of the Old Repubic, they watched the rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi Order. They failed to notice that a Dark Lord of the Sith became Chancellor of the Republic Obi-Wan more specifically left his friend, his padawan, his brother to burn in the firey lava of Mustafar rather then A. putting him out of his misery or B. trying to save him like Palpatine ended up doing. All the vaunted love and the compassion of the Jedi Order was renowned for failed when he let him burn because he was already lost...he believed in the dogma of the Jedi Order about light and dark...and his friend paid the price for it. Their reaction to all this failure? Sitting in isolation on their respective planets, not doing a thing as the Empire tore the Galaxy apart. Sure maybe the Disney series on Obi-Wan will change this context and sure Obi was a bit quick to start training Luke when he was offered...but they still sat there for decades. Because of the horrible things they did. The irony of course being that both men kept to their old dogma in regards of Vader...'then the Emperor has already won'...and similar statements to the effect. Love both men, but they were a bit stubbourn when it came to learning from their failures. They tried They failed. But neither tried to murder Anakin in his sleep because he had a bad dream. Heck, Ben spent 20 years secretly guarding him. And Yoda, when approached, agreed to train him. What did Luke do but wait around to die? And "teach" Rey that nothing matters.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2019 4:09:26 GMT
Hell since we are still continuing the Luke debate watching the entire series, probably for the first time since TLJ even came out made me consider a few new things. Obi-Wan and Yoda *fell* just as hard as Luke. Sure we have the benefit of not having to watch them sit in their isolation for years upon years, stewing in their isolation and their failure, but it still happened. Obi-Wan and Yoda was there at the end of the Old Repubic, they watched the rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi Order. They failed to notice that a Dark Lord of the Sith became Chancellor of the Republic Obi-Wan more specifically left his friend, his padawan, his brother to burn in the firey lava of Mustafar rather then A. putting him out of his misery or B. trying to save him like Palpatine ended up doing. All the vaunted love and the compassion of the Jedi Order was renowned for failed when he let him burn because he was already lost...he believed in the dogma of the Jedi Order about light and dark...and his friend paid the price for it. Their reaction to all this failure? Sitting in isolation on their respective planets, not doing a thing as the Empire tore the Galaxy apart. Sure maybe the Disney series on Obi-Wan will change this context and sure Obi was a bit quick to start training Luke when he was offered...but they still sat there for decades. Because of the horrible things they did. The irony of course being that both men kept to their old dogma in regards of Vader...'then the Emperor has already won'...and similar statements to the effect. Love both men, but they were a bit stubbourn when it came to learning from their failures. They tried They failed. But neither tried to murder Anakin in his sleep because he had a bad dream. Heck, Ben spent 20 years secretly guarding him. And Yoda, when approached, agreed to train him. What did Luke do but wait around to die? And "teach" Rey that nothing matters. Not really. Yoda has to be convinced by Obi-Wan to train Luke. That’s also not what Luke taught Rey. His two lessons were: 1. The Force doesn’t belong to anyone and thinking otherwise is arrogance. 2. The danger of holding onto preconceived notions like legends since that can blind you to them still being people thus fallible. Both of those are quite important lessons.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,259
colfoley
16,577
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2019 4:16:54 GMT
Hell since we are still continuing the Luke debate watching the entire series, probably for the first time since TLJ even came out made me consider a few new things. Obi-Wan and Yoda *fell* just as hard as Luke. Sure we have the benefit of not having to watch them sit in their isolation for years upon years, stewing in their isolation and their failure, but it still happened. Obi-Wan and Yoda was there at the end of the Old Repubic, they watched the rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi Order. They failed to notice that a Dark Lord of the Sith became Chancellor of the Republic Obi-Wan more specifically left his friend, his padawan, his brother to burn in the firey lava of Mustafar rather then A. putting him out of his misery or B. trying to save him like Palpatine ended up doing. All the vaunted love and the compassion of the Jedi Order was renowned for failed when he let him burn because he was already lost...he believed in the dogma of the Jedi Order about light and dark...and his friend paid the price for it. Their reaction to all this failure? Sitting in isolation on their respective planets, not doing a thing as the Empire tore the Galaxy apart. Sure maybe the Disney series on Obi-Wan will change this context and sure Obi was a bit quick to start training Luke when he was offered...but they still sat there for decades. Because of the horrible things they did. The irony of course being that both men kept to their old dogma in regards of Vader...'then the Emperor has already won'...and similar statements to the effect. Love both men, but they were a bit stubbourn when it came to learning from their failures. They tried They failed. But neither tried to murder Anakin in his sleep because he had a bad dream. Heck, Ben spent 20 years secretly guarding him. And Yoda, when approached, agreed to train him. What did Luke do but wait around to die? And "teach" Rey that nothing matters. Neither did Luke at the end of the day. And I think Kylo's circumstances were far more then a 'bad dream'. Presumably Luke saw Kylo's future...something that Jedi had been established being able to do since Empire. Yes Snoke probably put that vision there in the first place but then that vision caused Luke to react fearfully for a split second. I mean sometimes its really hard to see how these movies are so easily misinterpreted, Luke said it in his speech to Rey word for word. The other thing that has always bothered me about the criticism...and maybe retroactively my own initial fan theories is...what is the fandom really expecting? I made this point to my wife as we were watching it but Luke went to a planet that was really hard to find...exiling himself... There was only ever two outcomes, he made a terrible mistake and so was cutting himself off from everything out of shame or he somehow got lost and stranded on that planet. Nothing else made sense. Its hubris to assume that Luke went to that planet on the edge of nowhere for the Shiggles.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 4:25:50 GMT
They tried They failed. But neither tried to murder Anakin in his sleep because he had a bad dream. Heck, Ben spent 20 years secretly guarding him. And Yoda, when approached, agreed to train him. What did Luke do but wait around to die? And "teach" Rey that nothing matters. Neither did Luke at the end of the day. And I think Kylo's circumstances were far more then a 'bad dream'. Presumably Luke saw Kylo's future...something that Jedi had been established being able to do since Empire. Yes Snoke probably put that vision there in the first place but then that vision caused Luke to react fearfully for a split second. I mean sometimes its really hard to see how these movies are so easily misinterpreted, Luke said it in his speech to Rey word for word. The other thing that has always bothered me about the criticism...and maybe retroactively my own initial fan theories is...what is the fandom really expecting? I made this point to my wife as we were watching it but Luke went to a planet that was really hard to find...exiling himself... There was only ever two outcomes, he made a terrible mistake and so was cutting himself off from everything out of shame or he somehow got lost and stranded on that planet. Nothing else made sense. Its hubris to assume that Luke went to that planet on the edge of nowhere for the Shiggles. Luke knows firsthand that "always in motion is the future" He also knows better than anyone that ANYONE can be redeemed. Darth Vader murdered children, tortured his friend/brother-in0-aw, cut of his f*cking HAND and actively helped blow up a planet, and he didn't give up on him. Even if we were to accept that Luke would for an instant contemplate MURDERING HIS NEPHEW BECAUSE OF A VISION OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS BULLSH*T, he goes off to an island to mope, lets his nephew continue to murder people (including HIS BEST FRIEDN/Brother-IN LAW) abandons his family, and when someone comes along ASKING TO BE TRAINED, he doesn't do what Obi Won and Yoda did, and train the hope for the next generation. Instead he "subverts our expectations" and LETS THE GALAXY TWIST IN THE WIND, LETTING MORE PEOPLE DIE while he mopes and drinks green milk. Radioactive. Dumpster. Fire. What was I expecting. ANYTHING but this. I was expecting Luke the teacher. uke the general. Luke the Councilor. Luke the Happily Retired. Luke the father/grandfather. Luke the diplomat. Luke the Space Cop. Luke the Spy. Luke the Academic. Luke the Archaeologist. Maybe even Luke the Martyr. Any of this, maybe a combination of two or more. I Did Not expect Luke the Nihilist. Luke the failure. Luke the Beach Bum. Luke the Drinker of Unpasteurized Alien Seal Milk. Did it ever occur to you that Maybe Luke was researching the history of the Jedi? That Luke was looking for a weapon to stop Snoke, or trying to learn more about him? That he was training new Jedi in secret? That he was hunting the Knight of Ren? That he was searching for a way to redeem Ben? hat he was lading Snoke and Kylo AWAY from the Resistance? That Luke perhaps had his own family he was trying to keep safe? That perhaps he was himself a prisoner?
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2019 4:27:11 GMT
They tried They failed. But neither tried to murder Anakin in his sleep because he had a bad dream. Heck, Ben spent 20 years secretly guarding him. And Yoda, when approached, agreed to train him. What did Luke do but wait around to die? And "teach" Rey that nothing matters. Neither did Luke at the end of the day. And I think Kylo's circumstances were far more then a 'bad dream'. Presumably Luke saw Kylo's future...something that Jedi had been established being able to do since Empire. Yes Snoke probably put that vision there in the first place but then that vision caused Luke to react fearfully for a split second. I mean sometimes its really hard to see how these movies are so easily misinterpreted, Luke said it in his speech to Rey word for word. The other thing that has always bothered me about the criticism...and maybe retroactively my own initial fan theories is...what is the fandom really expecting? I made this point to my wife as we were watching it but Luke went to a planet that was really hard to find...exiling himself... There was only ever two outcomes, he made a terrible mistake and so was cutting himself off from everything out of shame or he somehow got lost and stranded on that planet. Nothing else made sense. Its hubris to assume that Luke went to that planet on the edge of nowhere for the Shiggles. Yeah his igniting his lightsaber was a reflex. I imagine the vision involved Leia being hurt or killed, since we know she has always been his Achille’s heel. Heck R2 playing her message was what made him change his mind and agree to teach his lessons.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2019 4:32:28 GMT
Neither did Luke at the end of the day. And I think Kylo's circumstances were far more then a 'bad dream'. Presumably Luke saw Kylo's future...something that Jedi had been established being able to do since Empire. Yes Snoke probably put that vision there in the first place but then that vision caused Luke to react fearfully for a split second. I mean sometimes its really hard to see how these movies are so easily misinterpreted, Luke said it in his speech to Rey word for word. The other thing that has always bothered me about the criticism...and maybe retroactively my own initial fan theories is...what is the fandom really expecting? I made this point to my wife as we were watching it but Luke went to a planet that was really hard to find...exiling himself... There was only ever two outcomes, he made a terrible mistake and so was cutting himself off from everything out of shame or he somehow got lost and stranded on that planet. Nothing else made sense. Its hubris to assume that Luke went to that planet on the edge of nowhere for the Shiggles. Luke knows firsthand that "always in motion is the future" He also knows better than anyone that ANYONE can be redeemed. Darth Vader murdered children, tortured his friend/brother-in0-aw, cut of his f*cking HAND and actively helped blow up a planet, and he didn't give up on him. Even if we were to accept that Luke would for an instant contemplate MURDERING HIS NEPHEW BECAUSE OF A VISION OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS BULLSH*T, he goes off to an island to mope, lets his nephew continue to murder people (including HIS BEST FRIEDN/Brother-IN LAW) abandons his family, and when someone comes along ASKING TO BE TRAINED, he doesn't do what Obi Won and Yoda did, and train the hope for the next generation. Instead he "subverts our expectations" and LETS THE GALAXY TWIST IN THE WIND, LETTING MORE PEOPLE DIE while he mopes and drinks green milk. Radioactive. Dumpster. Fire. So just like Obi-Wan and Yoda did with the Empire?
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 4:34:47 GMT
Luke knows firsthand that "always in motion is the future" He also knows better than anyone that ANYONE can be redeemed. Darth Vader murdered children, tortured his friend/brother-in0-aw, cut of his f*cking HAND and actively helped blow up a planet, and he didn't give up on him. Even if we were to accept that Luke would for an instant contemplate MURDERING HIS NEPHEW BECAUSE OF A VISION OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS BULLSH*T, he goes off to an island to mope, lets his nephew continue to murder people (including HIS BEST FRIEDN/Brother-IN LAW) abandons his family, and when someone comes along ASKING TO BE TRAINED, he doesn't do what Obi Won and Yoda did, and train the hope for the next generation. Instead he "subverts our expectations" and LETS THE GALAXY TWIST IN THE WIND, LETTING MORE PEOPLE DIE while he mopes and drinks green milk. Radioactive. Dumpster. Fire. So just like Obi-Wan and Yoda did with the Empire? Umm no? Ben was keeping an eye on Luke. Yoda actually trained Luke. Luke Jake moped on an island waiting to die and couldn't even work up the will to train Rey. Not that she needed it.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2019 4:44:19 GMT
So just like Obi-Wan and Yoda did with the Empire? Umm no? Ben was keeping an eye on Luke. Yoda actually trained Luke. Luke Jake moped on an island waiting to die and couldn't even work up the will to train Rey. Not that she needed it. You complain that Luke did nothing, yet Obi-Wan and Yoda did nothing for nearly two decades letting billions die. Sure Obi-Wan had a mission, but really Yoda has no excuse. Yoda went even one step further since he saw the future including the Order dying yet did nothing to stop it. And again, Yoda only reluctantly trained Luke after Obi-Wan had to convince him.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,259
colfoley
16,577
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2019 4:44:51 GMT
Neither did Luke at the end of the day. And I think Kylo's circumstances were far more then a 'bad dream'. Presumably Luke saw Kylo's future...something that Jedi had been established being able to do since Empire. Yes Snoke probably put that vision there in the first place but then that vision caused Luke to react fearfully for a split second. I mean sometimes its really hard to see how these movies are so easily misinterpreted, Luke said it in his speech to Rey word for word. The other thing that has always bothered me about the criticism...and maybe retroactively my own initial fan theories is...what is the fandom really expecting? I made this point to my wife as we were watching it but Luke went to a planet that was really hard to find...exiling himself... There was only ever two outcomes, he made a terrible mistake and so was cutting himself off from everything out of shame or he somehow got lost and stranded on that planet. Nothing else made sense. Its hubris to assume that Luke went to that planet on the edge of nowhere for the Shiggles. Luke knows firsthand that "always in motion is the future" He also knows better than anyone that ANYONE can be redeemed. Darth Vader murdered children, tortured his friend/brother-in0-aw, cut of his f*cking HAND and actively helped blow up a planet, and he didn't give up on him. Even if we were to accept that Luke would for an instant contemplate MURDERING HIS NEPHEW BECAUSE OF A VISION OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS BULLSH*T, he goes off to an island to mope, lets his nephew continue to murder people (including HIS BEST FRIEDN/Brother-IN LAW) abandons his family, and when someone comes along ASKING TO BE TRAINED, he doesn't do what Obi Won and Yoda did, and train the hope for the next generation. Instead he "subverts our expectations" and LETS THE GALAXY TWIST IN THE WIND, LETTING MORE PEOPLE DIE while he mopes and drinks green milk. Radioactive. Dumpster. Fire. What was I expecting. ANYTHING but this. I was expecting Luke the teacher. uke the general. Luke the Councilor. Luke the Happily Retired. Luke the father/grandfather. Luke the diplomat. Luke the Space Cop. Luke the Spy. Luke the Academic. Luke the Archaeologist. Maybe even Luke the Martyr. Any of this, maybe a combination of two or more. I Did Not expect Luke the Nihilist. Luke the failure. Luke the Beach Bum. Luke the Drinker of Unpasteurized Alien Seal Milk. Did it ever occur to you that Maybe Luke was researching the history of the Jedi? That Luke was looking for a weapon to stop Snoke, or trying to learn more about him? That he was training new Jedi in secret? That he was hunting the Knight of Ren? That he was searching for a way to redeem Ben? hat he was lading Snoke and Kylo AWAY from the Resistance? That Luke perhaps had his own family he was trying to keep safe? That perhaps he was himself a prisoner? Of course it occured to me in my wide eyed fan theories in the glow post Force Awakens...but none of them make sense in hindsight. If any of those were true Luke would've told someone, would've left more specific clues about where he went and why, we wouldn't have had to rely on hearsay, he may've even found a team and went off hunting. Instead we got a man who left without a word and left without giving any of his friends anyway to find him ever...that sounds like the actions of a man who had a crapton of regret to me. I mean I suppose the looking for ancient secrets of the Jedi angle could've still worked. And that's exactly the problem. You went into the movie with unreasonable expectations on who and what Luke Skywalker is. You believed the legend he was in the legends and in the Original Trilogy. The perfect paragon of justice he had become in Jedi. Admittedly I liked that Luke...admittedly I wanted to see more of that Luke. But the Luke we got was perfect for the story Rian Johnson was trying to tell. A reminder to all of us that we all fail, we all aren't perfect, even Luke Skywalker, but what we do with that failure defines us. It may've taken Luke awhile to get there...but he did in the end. And the Luke we got in TLJ is an inspiration for me, I have never loved the character more because even Luke Skywalker ended up being a failure, ended up being a beach bum, ended up being falible...and ended up learning from that to once more take up the mantle of the Ledgend to save the galaxy once again. Mark Hamil stole the freaking show and I wish he got like 10 Oscars for his work in the film.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 4:51:06 GMT
Luke knows firsthand that "always in motion is the future" He also knows better than anyone that ANYONE can be redeemed. Darth Vader murdered children, tortured his friend/brother-in0-aw, cut of his f*cking HAND and actively helped blow up a planet, and he didn't give up on him. Even if we were to accept that Luke would for an instant contemplate MURDERING HIS NEPHEW BECAUSE OF A VISION OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT THIS IS BULLSH*T, he goes off to an island to mope, lets his nephew continue to murder people (including HIS BEST FRIEDN/Brother-IN LAW) abandons his family, and when someone comes along ASKING TO BE TRAINED, he doesn't do what Obi Won and Yoda did, and train the hope for the next generation. Instead he "subverts our expectations" and LETS THE GALAXY TWIST IN THE WIND, LETTING MORE PEOPLE DIE while he mopes and drinks green milk. Radioactive. Dumpster. Fire. What was I expecting. ANYTHING but this. I was expecting Luke the teacher. uke the general. Luke the Councilor. Luke the Happily Retired. Luke the father/grandfather. Luke the diplomat. Luke the Space Cop. Luke the Spy. Luke the Academic. Luke the Archaeologist. Maybe even Luke the Martyr. Any of this, maybe a combination of two or more. I Did Not expect Luke the Nihilist. Luke the failure. Luke the Beach Bum. Luke the Drinker of Unpasteurized Alien Seal Milk. Did it ever occur to you that Maybe Luke was researching the history of the Jedi? That Luke was looking for a weapon to stop Snoke, or trying to learn more about him? That he was training new Jedi in secret? That he was hunting the Knight of Ren? That he was searching for a way to redeem Ben? hat he was lading Snoke and Kylo AWAY from the Resistance? That Luke perhaps had his own family he was trying to keep safe? That perhaps he was himself a prisoner? Of course it occured to me in my wide eyed fan theories in the glow post Force Awakens...but none of them make sense in hindsight. If any of those were true Luke would've told someone, would've left more specific clues about where he went and why, we wouldn't have had to rely on hearsay, he may've even found a team and went off hunting. Instead we got a man who left without a word and left without giving any of his friends anyway to find him ever...that sounds like the actions of a man who had a crapton of regret to me. I mean I suppose the looking for ancient secrets of the Jedi angle could've still worked. And that's exactly the problem. You went into the movie with unreasonable expectations on who and what Luke Skywalker is. You believed the legend he was in the legends and in the Original Trilogy. The perfect paragon of justice he had become in Jedi. Admittedly I liked that Luke...admittedly I wanted to see more of that Luke. But the Luke we got was perfect for the story Rian Johnson was trying to tell. A reminder to all of us that we all fail, we all aren't perfect, even Luke Skywalker, but what we do with that failure defines us. It may've taken Luke awhile to get there...but he did in the end. And the Luke we got in TLJ is an inspiration for me, I have never loved the character more because even Luke Skywalker ended up being a failure, ended up being a beach bum, ended up being falible...and ended up learning from that to once more take up the mantle of the Ledgend to save the galaxy once again. Mark Hamil stole the freaking show and I wish he got like 10 Oscars for his work in the film. He left a map. Artoo was out there, as was Max von Sydow. We see the entire movie strictly from Rey and Finn's pov. And neither of them had ever met Luke. If Rian Johnson wanted to tell that kind of story with that kind of character, he should have made his own, not butcher Lucas's.and wear it's skin as a mask. My expectations came from this silly thing called watching the original trilogy. It's not a "legend" because it's part of the original canon. I saw him grow from farmboy to Jedi. THAT is what Luke was. Rian Johnson smashed all that with his "subvert your expectations" garbage. He spit on the original trilogy. Jake Skywalker isn't inspiring to me. He's a cautionary tale about signing over trademarks. Jake Skywalker is a failure at every conceivable level. Dammit, I'm getting angry just typing this. Jake didn't take up a mantle or become a "legend" He waiting until the absolute last moment to put on a minor distraction to save the bare handful of Resistance troops left (after thousands died needlessly as he sat on his *ss) while Disney Wars' REAL Hero did all the heavy listing. Literally. I feel sorry for Mark Hammil having to do this role. Such a disappointment. I hope he was paid well, at least.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,259
colfoley
16,577
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2019 4:57:39 GMT
Of course it occured to me in my wide eyed fan theories in the glow post Force Awakens...but none of them make sense in hindsight. If any of those were true Luke would've told someone, would've left more specific clues about where he went and why, we wouldn't have had to rely on hearsay, he may've even found a team and went off hunting. Instead we got a man who left without a word and left without giving any of his friends anyway to find him ever...that sounds like the actions of a man who had a crapton of regret to me. I mean I suppose the looking for ancient secrets of the Jedi angle could've still worked. And that's exactly the problem. You went into the movie with unreasonable expectations on who and what Luke Skywalker is. You believed the legend he was in the legends and in the Original Trilogy. The perfect paragon of justice he had become in Jedi. Admittedly I liked that Luke...admittedly I wanted to see more of that Luke. But the Luke we got was perfect for the story Rian Johnson was trying to tell. A reminder to all of us that we all fail, we all aren't perfect, even Luke Skywalker, but what we do with that failure defines us. It may've taken Luke awhile to get there...but he did in the end. And the Luke we got in TLJ is an inspiration for me, I have never loved the character more because even Luke Skywalker ended up being a failure, ended up being a beach bum, ended up being falible...and ended up learning from that to once more take up the mantle of the Ledgend to save the galaxy once again. Mark Hamil stole the freaking show and I wish he got like 10 Oscars for his work in the film. He left a map. Artoo was out there, as was Max von Sydow. We see the entire movie strictly from Rey and Finn's pov. And neither of them had ever met Luke. If Rian Johnson wanted to tell that kind of story with that kind of character, he should have made his own, not butcher Lucas's.and wear it's skin as a mask. That's not leaving a map if you want to be found. I mean of course there was a map since he went there in the first place but he made it really hard for anyone to follow him. Just consider if he actually wanted to be found he would've kept the map whole and Artoo awake. Or again would've told somebody specifics of what he was up to. *shrugs*. It was more powerful with Luke. It could only have been Luke. Especially given what a mega bad ass he was at the end of the movie, the harder people fall sometimes just portends an even greater rise.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 5:03:42 GMT
Umm no? Ben was keeping an eye on Luke. Yoda actually trained Luke. Luke Jake moped on an island waiting to die and couldn't even work up the will to train Rey. Not that she needed it. You complain that Luke did nothing, yet Obi-Wan and Yoda did nothing for nearly two decades letting billions die. Sure Obi-Wan had a mission, but really Yoda has no excuse. Yoda went even one step further since he saw the future including the Order dying yet did nothing to stop it. And again, Yoda only reluctantly trained Luke after Obi-Wan had to convince him. And however reluctant Yoda was, he did so. Which is still far, far more than Jake Skywalker did.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 5:06:23 GMT
He left a map. Artoo was out there, as was Max von Sydow. We see the entire movie strictly from Rey and Finn's pov. And neither of them had ever met Luke. If Rian Johnson wanted to tell that kind of story with that kind of character, he should have made his own, not butcher Lucas's.and wear it's skin as a mask. That's not leaving a map if you want to be found. I mean of course there was a map since he went there in the first place but he made it really hard for anyone to follow him. Just consider if he actually wanted to be found he would've kept the map whole and Artoo awake. Or again would've told somebody specifics of what he was up to. Makes you winder what they had in mind before Rian Johnson crumpled up the plan and "subverted our expectations", huh? Mega bad ass? He put on a light show and had a heart attack. He wasn't even there! I enjoy a good redemption story as much as anyone. Vader had a good redemption story. Jake Skywalker was just a pathetic old man.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
30,251
Hanako Ikezawa
22,357
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 17, 2019 5:08:12 GMT
You complain that Luke did nothing, yet Obi-Wan and Yoda did nothing for nearly two decades letting billions die. Sure Obi-Wan had a mission, but really Yoda has no excuse. Yoda went even one step further since he saw the future including the Order dying yet did nothing to stop it. And again, Yoda only reluctantly trained Luke after Obi-Wan had to convince him. And however reluctant Yoda was, he did so. Which is still far, far more than Jake Skywalker did. Last I checked, Luke agreed to train. You can’t like Yoda and hate Luke. They were the same situation. So either like both or dislike both. Also noticed you ignored the part about Yoda letting billions including all his friends die without doing anything to stop it.
|
|
inherit
1033
0
31,259
colfoley
16,577
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
|
Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2019 5:15:57 GMT
That's not leaving a map if you want to be found. I mean of course there was a map since he went there in the first place but he made it really hard for anyone to follow him. Just consider if he actually wanted to be found he would've kept the map whole and Artoo awake. Or again would've told somebody specifics of what he was up to. Makes you winder what they had in mind before Rian Johnson crumpled up the plan and "subverted our expectations", huh? Mega bad ass? He put on a light show and had a heart attack. He wasn't even there! I enjoy a good redemption story as much as anyone. Vader had a good redemption story. Jake Skywalker was just a pathetic old man. Expectations really weren't subverted. Honestly the only reason why we had these expectations in the first place is because us fans were pretty stupid. And I include myself in this for the most part. Already talked about how Luke going off on some grand quest didn't make any sense...well neither did any of our heroes abandoning Rey with Unkar Plutt if they were her daughter. Most of our expectations were built on legends and common tropes and how we think the universe operates time and again in these fictional settings and time and again Rian pointed out, usually correctly, that this is not how things operate IRL. Its not how they should operate anyways. And however reluctant Yoda was, he did so. Which is still far, far more than Jake Skywalker did. Last I checked, Luke agreed to train. You can’t like Yoda and hate Luke. They were the same situation. So either like both or dislike both. Also noticed you ignored the part about Yoda letting billions including all his friends die without doing anything to stop it. But Luke is different you see...
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 5:40:10 GMT
And however reluctant Yoda was, he did so. Which is still far, far more than Jake Skywalker did. Last I checked, Luke agreed to train. You can’t like Yoda and hate Luke. They were the same situation. So either like both or dislike both. Also noticed you ignored the part about Yoda letting billions including all his friends die without doing anything to stop it. No, Jake gave "three lessons" which had little to do with the Force, and nothing to do with training Rey to be a Jedi. Yoda actually trained Luke to face Vader, albeit the training was abbreviated. Yoda trained Luke. Jake did not train Rey. It doesn't get much simpler than that. In addition, Yoda always intended to return "Until the time is right, disappear we will" It was always the plan to train Luke and Leia, after all "That boy is our last hope." "No. There is another" Jake Skywalker, otoh, just wanted to hang out on a beach and die. The hell with the rest of the galaxy, his family, and everyone who'd end up under the heel of the First Order. Yoda tried to do it himself. He failed. But he didn't give up. He knew that only the children of Vader could stop the Emperor. He bided his time. Jake Skywalker had no intention of trying to stop Kylo Ren or Snoke.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,883
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Dec 17, 2019 5:42:18 GMT
Yes, Luke WAS different. Yoda was a Jedi Master in exile. Luke was a Jedi Knight.
Jake was a beach bum with a death wish.
|
|