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Post by oyabun on Feb 4, 2017 15:17:34 GMT
Sten. He loves to keep dying on me no matter how I outfit him, and getting his approval in conversations is like playing Minesweeper. I recruit him so he doesn't die in Lothering, but other than that, I ignore him now. But he doesn't die in Lothering regardless... I wonder how he survived however writers have never explained it,they saved him because they wanted a familiar face as the Arishok
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 4, 2017 21:43:11 GMT
I assumed he could have bent the bars and escaped if he wanted to; it's his desire to repent that kept him in that cage. Until the darkspawn attacked, at least. I imagine that would motivate anybody. Of all the honorless ways to die, getting stabbed to death by darkspawn while stuck in a cage, not protecting or warning your people... that has got to be one of the worst. I can't wait to see Sten under the Frosbite engine.
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Post by Kei on Feb 4, 2017 22:07:36 GMT
I assumed he could have bent the bars and escaped if he wanted to; it's his desire to repent that kept him in that cage. Until the darkspawn attacked, at least. I imagine that would motivate anybody. Of all the honorless ways to die, getting stabbed to death by darkspawn while stuck in a cage, not protecting or warning your people... that has got to be one of the worst. I can't wait to see Sten under the Frosbite engine. I think he was too weak to do that after the 20 days he spent in that cage,I believe it is more probable he was freed out of mercy by someone in Lothering.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 4, 2017 22:14:17 GMT
I assumed he could have bent the bars and escaped if he wanted to; it's his desire to repent that kept him in that cage. Until the darkspawn attacked, at least. I imagine that would motivate anybody. Of all the honorless ways to die, getting stabbed to death by darkspawn while stuck in a cage, not protecting or warning your people... that has got to be one of the worst. I can't wait to see Sten under the Frosbite engine. I think he was too weak to do that after the 20 days he spent in that cage,I believe it is more probable he was freed out of mercy by someone in Lothering. You know, this is no matter. Leliana and Anders survived the Origins/Awakening, I don't think, Sten have any problem with this...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 23:13:12 GMT
I think he was too weak to do that after the 20 days he spent in that cage,I believe it is more probable he was freed out of mercy by someone in Lothering. You know, this is no matter. Leliana and Anders survived the Origins, I don't think, Sten have any problem with this... Sten the grumpy lyrium/fade ghost.
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Post by jackrabbit on Feb 5, 2017 12:16:12 GMT
Yeah, I know that, Walter.
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Post by oyabun on Feb 6, 2017 4:28:37 GMT
I think he was too weak to do that after the 20 days he spent in that cage,I believe it is more probable he was freed out of mercy by someone in Lothering. You know, this is no matter. Leliana and Anders survived the Origins/Awakening, I don't think, Sten have any problem with this... I don't like how they've forced the outcome of having Sten as Arishock for everyone even for those who gave back the Book to the Arishock in DA2,so in order to justfy it they said that Isabela took the book no matter what and that the ex Arsishock failed no matter what,in addiction to save Sten in Lothering....I think they have invalidated several choices here.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 7, 2017 5:48:40 GMT
I don't dislike any of them, but from a purely gameplay-oriented perspective?
-Zevran is pretty bad in the early game, since he's a Rogue who can't pick locks or disarm traps. However, by the mid-game he's decent, and by the lategame you can mitigate all his flaws and turn him into a monstrous DPS and boss-killer.
-I don't find much use for Wynne outside of the Circle Tower and Redcliffe questlines just because I think having a DPS and debuff-focused mage (Morrigan) is usually better than the heals.
-Oghren's a big pile of MEH. Alistair, Dog and Shale are all pretty much objectively better tanks, and his damage isn't enough to justify taking him over another DPS. With Sten at least, you can sink all your points into Champion (and I'd much rather have a maxed out Champion than a maxed out Berserker).
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Post by oyabun on Feb 8, 2017 18:14:32 GMT
2)Alistair's spends the entire Blight talking about how the two of us are going to stop the Blight and kill the archdemon I think is not the fault of Alistair(as you said it makes no sense for him leaving just for Loghain) but most likely of the writers who forced a very contrived outcome,they did that because of "drama" and because of the DR plotline.Here you can see the original content without the cut,AListair wasn't supposed to leave at all but they had to cut this content otherwise(at least in their minds)the DR would have lost a lot of appeal.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 8, 2017 23:31:30 GMT
I remember one time when clearing out the bandits in Denerim, I didn't pay enough attention and got my Mage Warden, Alistair, and Leliana killed. After almost rage quitting and reloading, I said "screw it" and decided to use Dog to fight to the bitter end. To my surprise, with careful planning and lots of potions, I was able to kill all ten remaining bandits. I've retained a much greater respect for the lovable mutt ever since .
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 9, 2017 2:00:45 GMT
I remember one time when clearing out the bandits in Denerim, I didn't pay enough attention and got my Mage Warden, Alistair, and Leliana killed. After almost rage quitting and reloading, I said "screw it" and decided to use Dog to fight to the bitter end. To my surprise, with careful planning and lots of potions, I was able to kill all ten remaining bandits. I've retained a much greater respect for the lovable mutt ever since .
Dog is pretty good. Granted, I prefer Alistair and Shale for most tanking duties, but he's great at chasing down mages, absorbing boss attacks and the like. Especially in the early and mid-game when equipment is hit-or-miss.
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Post by talyn82 on Feb 18, 2017 2:45:10 GMT
I like all of them, but as much as I like him, my least favorite companion to use gameplay wise is, Sten. I love his personality and think some of his dialogue is hilarious, but everytime I use him in a fight he's the first to fall. Even if he has good armor and weapon.
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Post by oyabun on Feb 18, 2017 21:20:11 GMT
I like all of them, but as much as I like him, my least favorite companion to use gameplay wise is, Sten. I love his personality and think some of his dialogue is hilarious, but everytime I use him in a fight he's the first to fall. Even if he has good armor and weapon. That's odd. I've always seen him as one of the strongest,in fact he was the one who never fall on any battle for me,especially when equipped in the Juggernaut armor.
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Post by talyn82 on Feb 18, 2017 21:33:17 GMT
I like all of them, but as much as I like him, my least favorite companion to use gameplay wise is, Sten. I love his personality and think some of his dialogue is hilarious, but everytime I use him in a fight he's the first to fall. Even if he has good armor and weapon. That's odd. I've always seen him as one of the strongest,in fact he was the one who never fall on any battle for me,especially when equipped in the Juggernaut armor. I never tried him with Juggernaut armor, because once I free him I never use him in my party. But when I first bought this game many years ago, I tried him for the sidequests in Lothering and a few story quests, and he kept going down, even if I intervened. So I would always switch back to Alistair.
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Post by mousestalker on Feb 19, 2017 0:27:03 GMT
Sten isn't really a tank. He is best used as an off-tank/damage dealer/agent of death. Of the companions, the two best tanks are Alistair and Shale. Off-tanks are Sten, Oghren, Dog, and Zevran Range damage are Leliana, Morrigan and Wynne. Or you may switch it up and max Morri as a shapeshifter, use Shale as a mana bot and tag team with yourself and Zev.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Feb 20, 2017 20:59:11 GMT
Sten isn't really a tank. He is best used as an off-tank/damage dealer/agent of death. Sten is suited to become whatever the player whish for him to be.He can be build as a Tank,a Templar,a Reaver..ecc...
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2017 16:23:34 GMT
Morrigan and Alistair. [Alert Wall of text about my motivations] 1)Morrigan left the world to burn instead of helping save it when she was in a position to do so. She choosed the possibility of me failing without her because I won't bow to her eleventh hour extortion rather than helping stop a global threat before it could destroy any more lives.She is a woman who, even if you max her approval and romance her, theoretically being her closest companion and confidant(like I thought my PC was to her),grew up in such a manner that long term deception of the one she loved (assuming you romanced her) was fine, and abandons you and the world to the Blight if you don't give her what she wants. She knows that the very next day I was going into a battle that could determine the fate of hundreds of thousands of lives, potentially over the course of decades or longer, where every person could spell the difference between victory and horror, and she tried to extort me with it, and then throws it all away because I disagreed. She wanted to use my PC and their son to specifically be the subject of her blood magic and to be interferred with on the level of its very essence. Using her lover is one thing, He is an adult and can say no. Using his non consenting child in such a profound and dangerous manner is very much another.Making Kieran shoulder the burden of housing the Old God soul without him having any say on it is no different from Dorian's parents wanting to force him to be someone he is not and his father was willing to use blood magic to make that happen. I do not want an innocent child to be shouldered with the burden of carrying the soul and the will of a powerful ancient being without him having any choice in it. In WH,the resentment and rancor that my character felt for her because of how he was deceived,abandoned and insulted(She wished for my eternal regret at Redcliffe)turned into pure hatred the moment she said that their son (who was born from outside the ritual) Was forever beyond his reach as she soon would have been... And I was like: "Really!?" So....the selfless Father who protected his son from her ritual of blood magic by risking his life(a ritual who would have caused nightmares to him and would have ended up into the kidnapping from Flemeth in DAI)...lost his son...while the selfish Mother who wanted to use him as a pawn... won?! WTF!?!. In the end doesn't matter what my relationship with her was. I was meant to be used and ditched. 2)Alistair's spends the entire Blight talking about how the two of us are going to stop the Blight and kill the archdemon and he rushes into battle shouting "For the Grey Wardens!" and then because I made a tactical decision to listen to the Senior Grey Warden who recommends having as many Grey Wardens as possible, Alistair is all like, "Screw the Grey Wardens, and screw you! I quit!" in a gigantic tantrum. He's not just turning on the character. He's essentially saying that unless he gets his way, he doesn't care if Ferelden falls to the darkspawn(kinda like Morrigan). Alistair will be fine and follow us if we... A) kill Connor or Isolde Wipe out the Circle C) Preserve the Anvil where Dwarven souls will be enslaved and forged into Golems D) Kill the Dalish Elves. Or the Werewolves E) Leave Redcliffe to the zombie horde F) sell Elves into slavery -- which would give us no reason to condemn Loghain G) work with a possessed corpse at one point H) murderknife people left and right and so on and so forth. So for Loghain to be the thing where he draws the line just makes him seem like a child who has no concept of where he stands on anything. He'll voice his disapproval about the other things but that he is more willing to accept slavery and follow the Warden rather then work with Loghain makes me really see him as a fool. This. So much this. I'm always amazed at how most people don't hesitate to do the DR. And even those who refuse to do it never mention the child as one of the reasons. I would have expected more players to be uncomfortable with helping Morrigan use a newborn as a lab rat. You know... I feel like Gaider tried way, way too hard to make Morrigan sound smart. The whole "tis", "t'was" and using words like "overlong" and "overmuch" was so freaking pretentious.
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Post by Prince on Feb 22, 2017 22:32:06 GMT
This. So much this. I'm always amazed at how most people don't hesitate to do the DR. And even those who refuse to do it never mention the child as one of the reasons. I would have expected more players to be uncomfortable with helping Morrigan use a newborn as a lab rat. I like the DR because it gave me more evidences to support what I've always believed about most human beings(in this case players in DA).The Dark Ritual is the moment when you get to establish the Warden's temperament in no uncertain terms: chose the Ritual, and even if the Warden was adored by his/her companions as the epitome of stalwartness, s/he is established for good as a selfish person, willing to dabble in forces s/he barely understands,use a child and gamble the world in order to save his/her own skin in the short term. As for using the child,well, as I've said most people tend to show their true colors when their personal interests are at stake,of course they will ignore ethics,that's why you will never see them talk about it. So I'm thankful for it's inclusion even if I've denied it(and I denied it also because from my theistic Pov using a child is evil),It allowed me to be able to actually see the inner nature of many people.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 23, 2017 17:05:55 GMT
This. So much this. I'm always amazed at how most people don't hesitate to do the DR. And even those who refuse to do it never mention the child as one of the reasons. I would have expected more players to be uncomfortable with helping Morrigan use a newborn as a lab rat. I like the DR because it gave me more evidences to support what I've always believed about most human beings(in this case players in DA).The Dark Ritual is the moment when you get to establish the Warden's temperament in no uncertain terms: chose the Ritual, and even if the Warden was adored by his/her companions as the epitome of stalwartness, s/he is established for good as a selfish person, willing to dabble in forces s/he barely understands,use a child and gamble the world in order to save his/her own skin in the short term. As for using the child,well, as I've said most people tend to show their true colors when their personal interests are at stake,of course they will ignore ethics,that's why you will never see them talk about it. So I'm thankful for it's inclusion even if I've denied it(and I denied it also because from my theistic Pov using a child is evil),It allowed me to be able to actually see the inner nature of many people. Not necessarily. I always make Alistair King at the Landsmeet, so the possibility of him dying if he deals the final blow to the Archdemon means that Ferelden is once again thrown into chaos. With Loghain dead and the Theirin dynasty destroyed, there's a very high risk of a prolonged interregnum and an ensuing civil war. Ferelden doesn't need that. After all, the Warden doesn't know that he/she is going to survive up until that last moment. Or that Riordan dies before he can deal the final blow. Is it really a selfish decision to have a guaranteed life-saving countermeasure (if one believes Morrigan) that can save the life of whomever slays the Archdemon, player character or not?
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Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 17:39:05 GMT
I like the DR because it gave me more evidences to support what I've always believed about most human beings(in this case players in DA).The Dark Ritual is the moment when you get to establish the Warden's temperament in no uncertain terms: chose the Ritual, and even if the Warden was adored by his/her companions as the epitome of stalwartness, s/he is established for good as a selfish person, willing to dabble in forces s/he barely understands,use a child and gamble the world in order to save his/her own skin in the short term. As for using the child,well, as I've said most people tend to show their true colors when their personal interests are at stake,of course they will ignore ethics,that's why you will never see them talk about it. So I'm thankful for it's inclusion even if I've denied it(and I denied it also because from my theistic Pov using a child is evil),It allowed me to be able to actually see the inner nature of many people. Not necessarily. I always make Alistair King at the Landsmeet, so the possibility of him dying if he deals the final blow to the Archdemon means that Ferelden is once again thrown into chaos. With Loghain dead and the Theirin dynasty destroyed, there's a very high risk of a prolonged interregnum and an ensuing civil war. Ferelden doesn't need that. After all, the Warden doesn't know that he/she is going to survive up until that last moment. Or that Riordan dies before he can deal the final blow. Is it really a selfish decision to have a guaranteed life-saving countermeasure (if one believes Morrigan) that can save the life of whomever slays the Archdemon, player character or not? I should point out that you didn't mention the child in your reasoning, which is my main problem with the DR debate. Truth is that nobody cares. Both Morrigan and the player see Kieran as a tool.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 23, 2017 18:52:58 GMT
Not necessarily. I always make Alistair King at the Landsmeet, so the possibility of him dying if he deals the final blow to the Archdemon means that Ferelden is once again thrown into chaos. With Loghain dead and the Theirin dynasty destroyed, there's a very high risk of a prolonged interregnum and an ensuing civil war. Ferelden doesn't need that. After all, the Warden doesn't know that he/she is going to survive up until that last moment. Or that Riordan dies before he can deal the final blow. Is it really a selfish decision to have a guaranteed life-saving countermeasure (if one believes Morrigan) that can save the life of whomever slays the Archdemon, player character or not? I should point out that you didn't mention the child in your reasoning, which is my main problem with the DR debate. Truth is that nobody cares. Both Morrigan and the player see Kieran as a tool. The player's a tool too. He/she was picked up by Duncan not because he was a nice guy, but because he needed another warm body to fill up the Warden ranks and knows that the Warden has a very particular set of skills. That's the cycle in Dragon Age. People don't do things because they're nice, but because the world rests upon a very shaky foundation and people have to be willing to do things that are objectionable from our moral standpoints because the alternatives are arguably much worse. The keyword there being "arguably." I don't look down upon doing the Dark Ritual or not doing the Dark Ritual. I think they're both justifiable choices considering the ramifications of each.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 19:27:28 GMT
I should point out that you didn't mention the child in your reasoning, which is my main problem with the DR debate. Truth is that nobody cares. Both Morrigan and the player see Kieran as a tool. The player's a tool too. He/she was picked up by Duncan not because he was a nice guy, but because he needed another warm body to fill up the Warden ranks and knows that the Warden has a very particular set of skills. That's the cycle in Dragon Age. People don't do things because they're nice, but because the world rests upon a very shaky foundation and people have to be willing to do things that are objectionable from our moral standpoints because the alternatives are arguably much worse. The keyword there being "arguably." I don't look down upon doing the Dark Ritual or not doing the Dark Ritual. I think they're both justifiable choices considering the ramifications of each. Perhaps, but questionable deeds aren't always inevitable. In this case, transferring a foreign soul to a baby's body before it can give consent isn't necessary in order to accomplish the main goal of ending the Blight.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 23, 2017 20:30:33 GMT
The player's a tool too. He/she was picked up by Duncan not because he was a nice guy, but because he needed another warm body to fill up the Warden ranks and knows that the Warden has a very particular set of skills. That's the cycle in Dragon Age. People don't do things because they're nice, but because the world rests upon a very shaky foundation and people have to be willing to do things that are objectionable from our moral standpoints because the alternatives are arguably much worse. The keyword there being "arguably." I don't look down upon doing the Dark Ritual or not doing the Dark Ritual. I think they're both justifiable choices considering the ramifications of each. Perhaps, but questionable deeds aren't always inevitable. In this case, transferring a foreign soul to a baby's body before it can give consent isn't necessary in order to accomplish the main goal of ending the Blight. On the other hand, you wind up having a Warden die when there's a life-saving alternative on the table. That Warden might just be the would-be King of Ferelden, or the hero who saved hundreds if not thousands of people prior to the Battle of Denerim. Again, both sides of the Dark Ritual have their merits.
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Post by Prince on Feb 24, 2017 9:54:27 GMT
I like the DR because it gave me more evidences to support what I've always believed about most human beings(in this case players in DA).The Dark Ritual is the moment when you get to establish the Warden's temperament in no uncertain terms: chose the Ritual, and even if the Warden was adored by his/her companions as the epitome of stalwartness, s/he is established for good as a selfish person, willing to dabble in forces s/he barely understands,use a child and gamble the world in order to save his/her own skin in the short term. As for using the child,well, as I've said most people tend to show their true colors when their personal interests are at stake,of course they will ignore ethics,that's why you will never see them talk about it. So I'm thankful for it's inclusion even if I've denied it(and I denied it also because from my theistic Pov using a child is evil),It allowed me to be able to actually see the inner nature of many people. Not necessarily. I always make Alistair King at the Landsmeet, so the possibility of him dying if he deals the final blow to the Archdemon means that Ferelden is once again thrown into chaos. With Loghain dead and the Theirin dynasty destroyed, there's a very high risk of a prolonged interregnum and an ensuing civil war. Ferelden doesn't need that. After all, the Warden doesn't know that he/she is going to survive up until that last moment. Or that Riordan dies before he can deal the final blow. Is it really a selfish decision to have a guaranteed life-saving countermeasure (if one believes Morrigan) that can save the life of whomever slays the Archdemon, player character or not? Anora is always provided as an alternative to Alistair no matter what,Ferelden does not need Alistair,in fact it does not need the HoF either. As for the DR it is indeed a gamble that put at risk the whole world for one single GW so yea it is pretty selfish.
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akiza
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Post by akiza on Feb 24, 2017 10:12:16 GMT
I should point out that you didn't mention the child in your reasoning, which is my main problem with the DR debate. Truth is that nobody cares. Both Morrigan and the player see Kieran as a tool. The player's a tool too. He/she was picked up by Duncan not because he was a nice guy, but because he needed another warm body to fill up the Warden ranks and knows that the Warden has a very particular set of skills. That's the cycle in Dragon Age. People don't do things because they're nice, but because the world rests upon a very shaky foundation and people have to be willing to do things that are objectionable from our moral standpoints because the alternatives are arguably much worse. The keyword there being "arguably." I don't look down upon doing the Dark Ritual or not doing the Dark Ritual. I think they're both justifiable choices considering the ramifications of each. Duncan saw the Warden as a tool to save the world not to gamble it. His final decision was a mistake: he chose to induct into the order someone who had the strength but lacked the virtues and in the end got to live and enjoy the ill-gained fruits of his/her selfishness by powering up those Evanuris. All the grey wardens knew was: old god + darkspawn = blight. Based on the information the grey warden had at the time, there was no reason to believe that darkspawn would not hunt this reborn old god, turn him into an archdemon and start another blight so I can't even understand how someone can justify a grey warden choosing the dark ritual (without meta-gaming). It's so absurd.... Also not all people in DA do things because they want something in return.....that is a dangerous generalization...Anders healed a lot of people for free in DA2...
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