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Post by phoray on Jan 21, 2017 5:31:48 GMT
Is it really just the one convo about BDSM adn then he never mentions it again?
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Post by Catilina on Jan 21, 2017 5:36:46 GMT
Is it really just the one convo about BDSM adn then he never mentions it again? At the third "sex scene" they talk about again.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 8:49:50 GMT
It never gets graphic though. It stays light and they talk about safe words (tis rather amusing really).
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Post by phoray on Jan 22, 2017 0:07:42 GMT
Nupe. I thought if I just clicked through the first BdSM conversation maybe I could, but of it's multiple scenes, already missed too much to make it worth it.
But he is a good friend.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2017 0:48:49 GMT
Nupe. I thought if I just clicked through the first BdSM conversation maybe I could, but of it's multiple scenes, already missed too much to make it worth it. But he is a good friend. Eh, I think, was a bad decision to force this BDSM-thing... Bull simply good and funny, I like this romance, but the BDSM deterred many people from him.
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Post by Artemis on Jan 22, 2017 1:05:53 GMT
Nupe. I thought if I just clicked through the first BdSM conversation maybe I could, but of it's multiple scenes, already missed too much to make it worth it. But he is a good friend. It was too much for me. I couldn't ignore it. Do I love Bull utterly, yes!! Is he romantic, a total sweet-heart, a big ole softy, yes. Is he perfect for my Lavellan, totally? But does the forced BDSM aspect bother the fuck out of me, yes. Nupe. I thought if I just clicked through the first BdSM conversation maybe I could, but of it's multiple scenes, already missed too much to make it worth it. But he is a good friend. Eh, I think, was a bad decision to force this BDSM-thing... Bull simply good and funny, I like this romance, but the BDSM deterred many people from him. Yeah, pretty much. This has been talked to death, but my stance is that it should have been optional. It isn't for me or my character, but tons of people got enjoyment out of it. Bull is the only other option for males and female dwarves and qunari. He is an amazing character and a great second option... minus the fact that you have to take it up the ass, and painfully, too, just to be his boyfriend. Dunno about you guys but I kind of prefer to keep that sort of thing unsaid? Like I'd rather leave the sex lives of our characters up to our own imaginations.
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Post by phoray on Jan 22, 2017 1:40:04 GMT
It went totally unsaid for Josephine. Wonder if that made her appealing to the asexuals.
Maybe it has to do with the voice actor?
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 22, 2017 3:44:13 GMT
I am not into BDSM in real life, but in the game it doesn't bother me at all. The Inquisitor is not actually me, after all. I like roleplaying someone who is entirely unlike me in many ways. I thought it fit Cadash and Bull.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Feb 6, 2017 4:33:32 GMT
I am not into BDSM in real life, but in the game it doesn't bother me at all. The Inquisitor is not actually me, after all. I like roleplaying someone who is entirely unlike me in many ways. I thought it fit Cadash and Bull. Does anything FIT with a Cadash and Bull?
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Post by phoray on Feb 6, 2017 4:39:41 GMT
I am not into BDSM in real life, but in the game it doesn't bother me at all. The Inquisitor is not actually me, after all. I like roleplaying someone who is entirely unlike me in many ways. I thought it fit Cadash and Bull. I get what you are saying. I roleplay as well, but it's always a facet of my personality I'm more fully exploring. Whether its my selfish side, my morally darker side, or my super into second chances part of me. I have not an oz of submissiveness. I'm aggressive. I like being in charge, and I like things my way. So, IBs speech does nothing but make me feel "wrong." There is nothing to explore there for me.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 6, 2017 6:19:40 GMT
Sorry, I cannot disagree more. In a Fridge Brilliance sort of way, Iron Bull's BDSM is at the core of his character; not being dominant, but the illusion of dominance. For most of his life, the Qun controlled every aspect of Bull's life. Even running the Chargers was cover for his mission from the Ben-Hassrath. Though personally, I think an argument can be made that Krem is the actual tactical leader, and Bull is more social and morale officer. Bull's uneasiness over divided loyalties reaches it's zenith in Demands of the Qun; choosing the Chargers or the dreadnaught is the single moment that will determine the course of the Iron Bull's life, and he still has to be told what to do. Now let's look at the relationship itself. From Bull's own comments, to those Chantry sisters' background chatter, and possibly banter with Dorian if neither was your first choice, you knew that Bull likes it rough and wild. When you try to seal the deal, he very plainly warns you what "riding the Bull" actually means. Even later with pillow talk he affirms you still hold the ultimate authority on how long this go on. In pretty much every other aspect of the Iron Bull's life someone else has power over the direction of his life. In denying Bull's interest in BDSM, it seems some players don't want Bull to have even the fantasy of control. There are plenty of Bioware romances where the player holds all the cards, in every aspect, so there can't be room for just one where they surrender some of that power? That's kind of a slippery slope, removing what may or may not be "objectionable"; let's remove Dorian's slavery apologies, even though challenging those ideas was a key in his character development. Atheists don't like religious content, so let's remove Leliana and Cassandra's arcs. People accuse Vivienne's ruthless ambition as racism, so make her flawless and perfect (even though early concept art revealed that she could have just as easily been white). And we'd better remove Sera altogether . Removing any aspects that could be considered controversial just leads to flat and boring characters with no arc, in my opinion. Which I hated . To me, making Josephine's romance ambiguous was lazy, and did a disservice to her agency. "You can't say for sure that she and the Inquisitor are screwing like bunnies," you say? Well, with that ambiguity, you also can't say for sure that they aren't. I would have had a lot more respect for the sub plot if Josephine had come out and said that she wanted to wait until marriage and/or was asexual or demisexual or the like. It would have affirmed Josie's will and beliefs, and given the player a different type of romance.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 6, 2017 6:38:34 GMT
It went totally unsaid for Josephine. Wonder if that made her appealing to the asexuals. Maybe it has to do with the voice actor? Which I am extremely grateful for. I was finally able to have the kind of romance I was hoping for in a Bioware game with Josephine.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 8:48:05 GMT
Everytime the BSDM stuff comes up in this tread- I get a bit anxious. It's pretty clear a lot of people don't like that aspect of the relationship. Personally I am on the fence about it, but it isn't a deal breaker for me. Personally as I've said before-it's such a small part of the romance that it can be ignored for the most part. Now as for the Bottom vrs. top aspect though-yeah I guess a lot of people could have lived with that being left to the imagination. However, for whatever reason they made it very plain that Dorian is the bottom, and Iron Bull is the top. Though to be fair I feel like that seemed pretty apparent anyway, and anyone who wanted to head cannon it otherwise probably have enough power of denial to pull it off anyway.
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 7, 2017 1:43:24 GMT
People talking about how the BDSM aspect should have been optional makes me really uncomfortable. It's basically saying Bull's sexual needs don't matter and that he should just do whatever the Inquisitor wants, which is a pretty unhealthy relationship. Yeah it sucks when your sexual needs turn out to be incompatible with those of the person you're interested in, but people have been asking for more realistic relationships. Personally, enough is left to the imagination that I can enjoy being a shameless bottom while still being able to go out and kick some ass.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 4:29:04 GMT
People talking about how the BDSM aspect should have been optional makes me really uncomfortable. It's basically saying Bull's sexual needs don't matter and that he should just do whatever the Inquisitor wants, which is a pretty unhealthy relationship. Yeah it sucks when your sexual needs turn out to be incompatible with those of the person you're interested in, but people have been asking for more realistic relationships. Personally, enough is left to the imagination that I can enjoy being a shameless bottom while still being able to go out and kick some ass. Agreed. Iron Bull having his own set of standards for a romantic relationship seems realistic enough to me. I don't have a problem with it. I just wish people wouldn't make such a big deal of it. It really isn't talked about much in game anyway.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 7, 2017 5:13:58 GMT
I think that one of the advantages of having so many romances in Inquisition was the variety it allowed, and I'd like to see them keep it up. Going forward I'd like to see some romances that are specifically sexual - and maybe even sexual in a very specific way - and others that are ambiguous like Josephine and Solas. Wouldn't mind specifically non-sexual romances either, for that matter, if that's something BioWare would like to do.
I mean, Bull isn't for everyone, but then, which love interest is?
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Post by lilyenachaos on Feb 7, 2017 16:39:28 GMT
I think that one of the advantages of having so many romances in Inquisition was the variety it allowed, and I'd like to see them keep it up. Going forward I'd like to see some romances that are specifically sexual - and maybe even sexual in a very specific way - and others that are ambiguous like Josephine and Solas. Wouldn't mind specifically non-sexual romances either, for that matter, if that's something BioWare would like to do. I mean, Bull isn't for everyone, but then, which love interest is? They really spoiled us in DAI. Females especially.
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Post by phoray on Feb 7, 2017 17:20:58 GMT
I was definitely not suggesting they remove the BDSM.
I am a Dom/Domme/Dominant in my relationships in real life. I don't enjoy role playing a submissive in life and, apparently, even in a video game. I'm looking forward to the Dorian romance for a variety of reasons but also because of his implied preferred bottom role. (no further spoilers on that please.)
So it is NOT due to a discomfort ABOUT BDSM that I avoid that aspect of Iron Bull. It's my discomfort with being on the -lack of control- end.
If it had just been that one conversation, I could have plugged my ears and clicked through. But it seems to be woven into the little things and other conversations that even involve party banter. There is too much reinforcement, from MY POV, of the Quiz being a submissive bottom in that relationship for me to try to headcannon otherwise.
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Post by javeart on Feb 7, 2017 17:22:01 GMT
One thing about the BDSM stuff being part of the IB sexual needs: my impression was that it was implied that he went the BDSM route because that's what you wanted/needed, ben hassrat's abilities and all that? I never completed the romance precisely because I perceived a "I know what you need" tone in it all that totally killed it for me, more than BDSM stuff in itself, and I'm curious now edit: I'm curious now if I got that wrong or if I missed something, I mean, I don't know if I made that clear
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Post by Sifr on Feb 7, 2017 18:17:02 GMT
I had the same issue with that line, because even with his Ben-Hassrath training to read the Inquisitor, it does seem a little arrogant that he can simply declare that we want to be submissive in the bedroom because we're dominant all day long as the Inquisitor.
Some people prefer alternately between Dom/Sub behaviour and he's not really accounting for that possibility. Sure the Inquisitor might enjoy blowing off steam by relinquishing control, but who's to say that some days they don't want to be a leader in the bedroom as well as the battlefield?
Some has suggested that the Inquisitor shouldn't place their own sexual needs above Bull's, but conversely, shouldn't he not do the same? It's obvious that Bull likes being dominant, rather than submissive. But it's a bit paradoxical that Bull insists he's trying to satisfy our needs, yet never makes even the token offer to do so, in a way that's lies outside of his own preference?
(Does anyone know what his response is if you chose "I'm not your slave" when he gives his ground rules for the relationship? Been a while since I romanced Bull so can't remember if it's a deal breaker or not? Tried to find a clip online where they showed this option being taken, but couldn't find his response to it.)
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Post by javeart on Feb 7, 2017 19:14:39 GMT
it is confusing, because curiosity led me to youtube and, apparently, in the first scene if you say you're not into that he breaks it off, but if you go on then he tells you he did that to you because that's what you want... So, either you RP that that is really what you want (and so he's reading yur needs right) or you RP that you pretend that that's what you want because you know that that is what he wants but he won' admit it and will just pretend that that is what you want It's hard to judge only from this bits, how does it actually feel going through the whole romance? Also, Sifr , according to the videos I've seen, that line seems to be more an option for you to RP your reaction, because apparently it doesn't have any impact, he won't break up with you but one would assume that your relationship doesn't change either?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 21:12:02 GMT
If you pick "You're not my master" he just says his speech of "outside this room, nothing changes". Because he's not planning to be the Inquisitors master. He's just going to tie them up occasionally and create a fun experience for them both. He's not planning to dictate how they act, what they eat, what they wear, what they think, what they say or who they meet. Heck he's never going to be fully in control, since Quizzy always has the last word. Only thing they need to say is stop (or Katoh) and he'll stop. No questions, no second guessing, no leaving them bound until their change their mind, no beating the fear of leaving into them and no active physical hindrance. Quizzy is always going to be the master, he just gets the illusion of being in control, for once in his life. And only in a certain locations, at certain times and only with the Inquisitors permission. So no changes if you pick the "You're not my master" option. As for him saying that this is what quizzy needs, I figure a part of it is for his benefit and a part of it is the reasonable assumption that Quizzy needs a break for once or twice, after being thrust into full leadership position after having lived their lives mostly as underlings. Maybe they don't need the break in this manner. But I figure most quizzies would want a safe spot, a quiet moment, just to relax and get their thoughts together as someone else takes care of them. Like with Sera's rooftop, Dorian cuddles in the bed room, breather with Cullen, posing with Blackwall, garden kisses with Josephine. Just getting to sit down, breathe, relax and enjoy time with someone that they love. So their mind is focused when they return to the whole end of the world thing. Iron Bull's method just involves more rope. And dragons.
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Post by Ryzaki on Feb 8, 2017 3:16:44 GMT
Sorry, I cannot disagree more. In a Fridge Brilliance sort of way, Iron Bull's BDSM is at the core of his character; not being dominant, but the illusion of dominance. For most of his life, the Qun controlled every aspect of Bull's life. Even running the Chargers was cover for his mission from the Ben-Hassrath. Though personally, I think an argument can be made that Krem is the actual tactical leader, and Bull is more social and morale officer. Bull's uneasiness over divided loyalties reaches it's zenith in Demands of the Qun; choosing the Chargers or the dreadnaught is the single moment that will determine the course of the Iron Bull's life, and he still has to be told what to do. Now let's look at the relationship itself. From Bull's own comments, to those Chantry sisters' background chatter, and possibly banter with Dorian if neither was your first choice, you knew that Bull likes it rough and wild. When you try to seal the deal, he very plainly warns you what "riding the Bull" actually means. Even later with pillow talk he affirms you still hold the ultimate authority on how long this go on. In pretty much every other aspect of the Iron Bull's life someone else has power over the direction of his life. In denying Bull's interest in BDSM, it seems some players don't want Bull to have even the fantasy of control. There are plenty of Bioware romances where the player holds all the cards, in every aspect, so there can't be room for just one where they surrender some of that power? I have to agree with this and now I see it this way I love the romance even more. That said it doesn't really bother me too much to modify my characters to fit a certain type (The only thing I really draw the line at is making my PC an easily manipulated idiot but that's my personal hangup). (Plus honestly it feels nice for me at least to have someone my PC can lean on instead of the other way around. BW protags tend to be unpaid therapists for 90% of the cast).
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Post by phoray on Feb 8, 2017 3:26:18 GMT
it is confusing, because curiosity led me to youtube and, apparently, in the first scene if you say you're not into that he breaks it off, but if you go on then he tells you he did that to you because that's what you want... So, either you RP that that is really what you want (and so he's reading yur needs right) or you RP that you pretend that that's what you want because you know that that is what he wants but he won' admit it and will just pretend that that is what you want It's hard to judge only from this bits, how does it actually feel going through the whole romance? Also, Sifr , according to the videos I've seen, that line seems to be more an option for you to RP your reaction, because apparently it doesn't have any impact, he won't break up with you but one would assume that your relationship doesn't change either? There are two chances to break the IB romance off before locking in. HE tells you the safe word and you can KAdan right off the bat. He respectfully leaves. If you ask for a bit more information, then use the safe word, he grunts with annoyance and THEN leaves. I hated the 2nd version so much. Never got past that point in the romance. Still, IB loyalty come Trespasser warmed my heart. Just not enough to want to bottom to him. And some people see submission as a way of letting go and relaxing. But I find dominance to be completely relaxing, fun, and unlike the rest of the world where I have to accept people's input about my tone, way of dress, etc. Finally, in my own home and bedroom, I can have it MY WAY. Being dominant is not a job or work. Both sides of the coin are their own release.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 8, 2017 6:16:31 GMT
I like to headcanon that they renegotiated their roles later on. If the Inquisitor can get married with him, I see no reason it can't evolve to something else.
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