lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 28, 2017 7:47:30 GMT
[MOD-NOTE: This is a broader discussion about AI/VI in Mass Effect Andromeda (and related to the Trilogy), which is why it is in the General sub-forum. Please go to the 'Characters and Romance' sub-forum for a character focused discussion about SAM. bsn.boards.net/thread/2491 SofaJockey ]
I'm a bit curious about having a "true AI" so casually included in the game. Last I checked, AI were not only outlawed but considered very dangerous by most people. I did a forums search and nothing came up... So, has there been anything to explain why it's totally cool for an AI to accompany the new team?
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Post by Fredward on Jan 28, 2017 8:01:02 GMT
No, though I imagine it isn't handwaved since one of the devs tweeted something along the lines of "That's right, AI not VI, wonder how that happened!" Some people are pointing out that Cora's surname is also the Illusive Man's (his real name is Jack Harper) and I imagine the implication is that SAM is based off of the same code as EDI.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 28, 2017 8:42:18 GMT
There are four corporations that are allowed by the Council to work with AI under very controlled circumstances, for example Synthetic Insights.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jan 28, 2017 8:58:38 GMT
Not sure how they're going to explain openly advertising their use of an AI. Even if, as looks depressingly likely, 'Cerberus did it! Kewl!' that doesn't explain a public announcement to the galaxy at large. Or are these briefings considered meta-gaming and not in universe?
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Post by Fogg on Jan 28, 2017 10:49:16 GMT
Devs on Twitter said SAM would be legally forbidden, but that it will be explained
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Post by Cypher on Jan 28, 2017 10:51:18 GMT
There are four corporations that are allowed by the Council to work with AI under very controlled circumstances, for example Synthetic Insights. Plus, with them going to another galaxy, I'm sure they're more willing to bend societal norms to ensure survival. |
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lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 28, 2017 11:41:03 GMT
There are four corporations that are allowed by the Council to work with AI under very controlled circumstances, for example Synthetic Insights. Thanks, don't remember hearing that before. Was that mentioned in any of the games or is it only in extra material (e.g., books)? |
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lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 28, 2017 11:42:12 GMT
Not sure how they're going to explain openly advertising their use of an AI. Even if, as looks depressingly likely, 'Cerberus did it! Kewl!' that doesn't explain a public announcement to the galaxy at large. Or are these briefings considered meta-gaming and not in universe? My sense was that these briefings are definitely meta: for players, not in-game characters. |
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DayusMakhina
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Post by DayusMakhina on Jan 28, 2017 11:54:46 GMT
Not sure how they're going to explain openly advertising their use of an AI. Even if, as looks depressingly likely, 'Cerberus did it! Kewl!' that doesn't explain a public announcement to the galaxy at large. Or are these briefings considered meta-gaming and not in universe? My sense was that these briefings are definitely meta: for players, not in-game characters. That would be my sense too. With regards to use of AI on the AI (excuse the pun). I'd advocate that people that would up and leave their galaxy to travel to the unknown would probably be quite forward-thinking and rash so would be more inclined to push technological advancement irrelevant of the risks. As for rules... since when do rules apply to the rich and powerful? |
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spacebeetle
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 28, 2017 12:46:47 GMT
There are four corporations that are allowed by the Council to work with AI under very controlled circumstances, for example Synthetic Insights. Plus, with them going to another galaxy, I'm sure they're more willing to bend societal norms to ensure survival. And in the meantime, they didn’t install weapons on the Tempest... Yeah...  |
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Post by Pearl on Jan 28, 2017 13:53:02 GMT
I would be really interested in seeing who would enforce Council laws while in Andromeda. I think that's just a tad outside their jurisdiction.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Jan 28, 2017 15:06:29 GMT
I assume council laws won't apply in Andromeda & SAM's existence would have been on a very need to know basis before launch.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jan 28, 2017 15:14:24 GMT
There are four corporations that are allowed by the Council to work with AI under very controlled circumstances, for example Synthetic Insights. But the AIs themselves are held outside COuncil space, I believe. Which might be the loophole that allows SAM to be created. Harder to explain would be who'd be insane enough to give an AI any kind of control over their mind, senses, or body via implants? |
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Wulfram
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Post by Wulfram on Jan 28, 2017 15:15:49 GMT
I would be really interested in seeing who would enforce Council laws while in Andromeda. I think that's just a tad outside their jurisdiction. It seems like SAM was developed before departure, however. Plus, the odds are people in the Initiative would mostly agree with the law, particularly since we're launching just after AI lifeforms launched a series of unprovoked massacres and an attack on the galactic capital. |
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Muddy Boots
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Post by Muddy Boots on Jan 28, 2017 15:23:51 GMT
There are always going to be people who believe themselves to be above the law. Their thinking is often: "Others can't handle it, but I can." TIM is a prime example. He thought he was strong enough to control the Reapers. He was wrong. But...the game implies that Shepard was enough to control them. The same might be true of the Ryders. When they were developing the AI-which wasn't necessarily a publicly known endeavor-they may have felt that they could control this and keep it mostly secret from the Council. Then whatever happened to Elen-Alex decided to take their joint effort and put it to use in Andromeda.
There's still a lot of backstory that Bioware is holding back and we'll probably get the full story in game. There are a lot of theories about Elen and several are quite reasonable.
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lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 28, 2017 15:24:19 GMT
I would be really interested in seeing who would enforce Council laws while in Andromeda. I think that's just a tad outside their jurisdiction. They were illegal because it was generally believed that AI are potentially extremely dangerous. I don't see how being in another galaxy could change that later fact. |
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kumazan
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Post by kumazan on Jan 28, 2017 15:52:36 GMT
I would be really interested in seeing who would enforce Council laws while in Andromeda. I think that's just a tad outside their jurisdiction. They were illegal because it was generally believed that AI are potentially extremely dangerous. I don't see how being in another galaxy could change that later fact. They were made illegal as a knee-jerk reaction to the Morning War. |
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lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 28, 2017 16:02:13 GMT
They were illegal because it was generally believed that AI are potentially extremely dangerous. I don't see how being in another galaxy could change that later fact. They were made illegal as a knee-jerk reaction to the Morning War. The point is that most people in ME universe consider AI to be dangerous. Why are humans going to Andromeda cool with it? |
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Post by kumazan on Jan 28, 2017 16:06:38 GMT
They were made illegal as a knee-jerk reaction to the Morning War. The point is that most people in ME universe consider AI to be dangerous. Why are humans going to Andromeda cool with it? People consider krogan to be dangerous too. They worked with freaking rachni in the Crucible too. I don't think it's a stretch to think people who signed up to go to Andromeda aren't too bothered for working with an AI. |
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Wulfram
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Post by Wulfram on Jan 28, 2017 16:09:07 GMT
They were illegal because it was generally believed that AI are potentially extremely dangerous. I don't see how being in another galaxy could change that later fact. They were made illegal as a knee-jerk reaction to the Morning War. No doubt the Morning War led to the laws being tightened up, and, going by the scene in Citadel it also led to a crackdown on existing AI, but anti-AI laws seem to have existed before the Morning War. Tali says back in ME1, regarding the creation of the Geth "This wasn't true AI research. We may have been skirting the bounds of the law, but we never did anything that was actually illegal" which makes it very much sound like true AI research was illegal back then. |
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Post by kumazan on Jan 28, 2017 16:13:06 GMT
They were made illegal as a knee-jerk reaction to the Morning War. No doubt the Morning War led to the laws being tightened up, and, going by the scene in Citadel it also led to a crackdown on existing AI, but anti-AI laws seem to have existed before the Morning War. Tali says back in ME1, regarding the creation of the Geth "This wasn't true AI research. We may have been skirting the bounds of the law, but we never did anything that was actually illegal" which makes it very much sound like true AI research was illegal back then. Yes, but we don't have a wider context for that. Regulations could be in place not because AI were deemed dangerous, but because of moral reasons. Or perhaps AI research was OK if you were creating an isolated individual, and not a whole army of them (gg quarians). |
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Post by saberchic on Jan 28, 2017 16:37:12 GMT
In one of the Mass Effect books, it stated that ALL the races secretly work on AI stuff but skirt the laws to do it. It's like a "don't get caught" kind of thing although as someone pointed out above, there are a few corporations that are allowed to work on it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 28, 2017 18:13:23 GMT
There are four corporations that are allowed by the Council to work with AI under very controlled circumstances, for example Synthetic Insights. Thanks, don't remember hearing that before. Was that mentioned in any of the games or is it only in extra material (e.g., books)? You're welcome. Yes, it was mentioned in ME1 while on Noveria when you ask about the different corporations there. Synthetic Insights is an option, and when asked they say they are one of four corporations licensed by the Citadel Council to work with AIs. |
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Jan 29, 2017 1:14:29 GMT
AI is only illegal in citadel space and possibly by races who had treaties with council races or had their own laws about AI.
In 99% + of the milky way galaxy, AI is not known to be illegal because either there are no laws or no government claims in that region of space.
99% of the galaxy is like international waters.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 29, 2017 1:17:04 GMT
Let me state that as best as I get it in ME Universe.:
AI: Geth
Can move, interact and react to physical world.
Has the ability to gain experience, grow, adapt and grow in personality.
Are aware of their own existence.
VI: Avina
Can not move and react to physical world.
Can not grow in thought and reasoning -stupid machine.
Can not adapt to situations -a fixed set of responses.
Not aware of their own existence.
Personally I see SAM (Simulated Adaptive Matrix) as a hybrid of a VI and AI.
Reminds me a of a similar Hybrid also from the Mass Effect Universe - EDI.
In the beginning he is stationed in some sort of hub/dock.
He can access the ship -basically extensions of himself.
He is self-aware -he is the Tempest and the Tempest.
However unlike EDI he never gains a form -his body is that of Ryders' via implant.
Through the pathfinder he will be able to experience, grow, adapt and grow his own personality living vicariously through Ryder.
... Oh horrible thought comes to mind: Maybe through the implant in Ryder he can take control of the pathfinder.
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