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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Feb 18, 2017 13:44:58 GMT
My Lavellan choose to have hers removed. It's a bit of a mix of things: she was horrified that she'd unwittingly taken on a mark of slavery or servitude. There were the creeping disturbance she felt after learning more about Dirthamen. Upon learning its origin, she was freaked out by something that had happened in the Well of Sorrows, namely the marks that appeared on her face so she was worried the vallaslin were not just symbolic of slavery or servitude but held magic to enforce it. To her, the vallaslin was basically a symbol of everything the Dalish had gotten wrong and something that could be dangerous. She did find more peace with it later on including that she considered that the Dalish had made the vallaslin into something of their own although she thought that for that to be true, the Dalish had to be told its true origin otherwise they wouldn't have changed the meaning: they'd just have misunderstood it. She was, however, still worried about the implications she'd seen in the Well of Sorrow.
She did miss her marks (as did I, They looked awesome) as she'd had them for so long and was always troubled by how her clan would react to the news and her.
Note: I've added the before and after images as attachments.
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smellycatbutts
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 473 Likes: 812
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smellycatbutts
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by smellycatbutts on Feb 20, 2017 1:22:44 GMT
My Solasmancer kept it. Lots of things change their meaning over time.
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Post by shroomofdoom on Feb 20, 2017 14:40:38 GMT
It was a real shame that Flemythal didn't make mention of my Levellans Mythal tat. I picked it cos it looked pretty, only to find out later it was mythals and he subsequently drank from the well. You'd think she'd atleast snark about it.
My femLavellan really wanted it removed, as she was totally down with accepting the truth of history, over pretty lies and yet, she refused. It marked her as one of the dalish, not so much about her gods, but about her people, her clan. To remove it would be to renounce them. And that didn't feel right.
And I agree with catilina, wish this had been an option with a friednly male dalish too, but apparantly Solas only really gives a fig about his elven inquisitor, if he's getting his staff polished.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,214
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House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
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thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Feb 20, 2017 19:13:27 GMT
We are slaves to no one, nor will we look the part of a slave.
Stupid ass word correct
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 20, 2017 19:37:47 GMT
We are slaves to no one, nor will we look the part of a salve. As long as you also don't look the part of a poultice. Someone might try to drink you in that case.
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Wynne
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 199 Likes: 658
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wynne
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Wynne on Feb 21, 2017 3:30:39 GMT
My canon Lavellan had them removed, mostly because she was horrified by what Solas revealed about them and for her this happened after the Temple of Mythal, so she wasn't so enchanted with the elven past after reading some of the stories and encountering Abelas' attitude about the Dalish. The vallaslin might mean something different now, but they're still intended to be a mark of reverence for the elven gods and Elvhenan, which she didn't revere so much any more. The vallaslin may represent the affiliation, identification as well. And can mean, what this "god" represents: the protection, the hunt, the craft, the secrets, the deads etc. So: the question not so easy. But ptobably my decision would be same: removing. By the way, it's annoying, that the male (or non-romanced) elf Inquisitor don't get this choice, if s/he's "just" Solas' friend. I think the point is, he's only tempted past the line of wisdom by true love, and he's hoping it will be the same for you--that what he's doing won't seem as significant because your emotions are clouded, so unlike a friend whose head is clear, you won't ask the wrong questions--the ones dangerous to answer. A friend is not so much a friend as a frenemy with Solas--your agendas are at odds. He likes you DESPITE himself, and in Trespasser he holds back on information because he thinks you too astute and intuitive to risk it. I think this is at play even at the end of DAI, and is wonderfully consistent with his character. Only for his love will he indulge his emotions, and only as a parting gift. For the rest, however much he may value you, those marks may serve as a welcome sign of his alienation from the elvhen. Of what he sealed away, and those who honor monsters with their faces, and the lies that were told about him and passed down. My first full playthrough Inquisitor had the June vallaslin, and I LOVED it on her, but... I had it removed because she was very strong and independent, and having that revealed made me realize "never again shall we submit" meant to her that she was not wearing any damn slave tattooes simply because (as she saw it) her people's ancestors were stupidly misinformed. Through Solas, she saw an unflattering picture of the Dalish, though she still loves her own clan, which was more progressive than most. She also didn't want Solas looking at her and seeing that on her face and having to try to look past them. I have a Ghilan'nain and a Sylaise as well, and I think both might keep them, but I won't know until I get to that point. I realize vallaslin can be worn ironically or even as a mark of defiance, and I think they are beautiful, but I just couldn't say no to Solas.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Feb 21, 2017 3:45:30 GMT
The vallaslin may represent the affiliation, identification as well. And can mean, what this "god" represents: the protection, the hunt, the craft, the secrets, the deads etc. So: the question not so easy. But ptobably my decision would be same: removing. By the way, it's annoying, that the male (or non-romanced) elf Inquisitor don't get this choice, if s/he's "just" Solas' friend. I think the point is, he's only tempted past the line of wisdom by true love, and he's hoping it will be the same for you--that what he's doing won't seem as significant because your emotions are clouded, so unlike a friend whose head is clear, you won't ask the wrong questions--the ones dangerous to answer. A friend is not so much a friend as a frenemy with Solas--your agendas are at odds. He likes you DESPITE himself, and in Trespasser he holds back on information because he thinks you too astute and intuitive to risk it. I think this is at play even at the end of DAI, and is wonderfully consistent with his character. Only for his love will he indulge his emotions, and only as a parting gift. For the rest, however much he may value you, those marks may serve as a welcome sign of his alienation from the elvhen. Of what he sealed away, and those who honor monsters with their faces, and the lies that were told about him and passed down. My first full playthrough Inquisitor had the June vallaslin, and I LOVED it on her, but... I had it removed because she was very strong and independent, and having that revealed made me realize "never again shall we submit" meant to her that she was not wearing any damn slave tattooes simply because (as she saw it) her people's ancestors were stupidly misinformed. Through Solas, she saw an unflattering picture of the Dalish, though she still loves her own clan, which was more progressive than most. She also didn't want Solas looking at her and seeing that on her face and having to try to look past them. I have a Ghilan'nain and a Sylaise as well, and I think both might keep them, but I won't know until I get to that point. I realize vallaslin can be worn ironically or even as a mark of defiance, and I think they are beautiful, but I just couldn't say no to Solas. I see your point, probably you're right. About the remove: I still see as logical reason to keep the vallaslin, because of the tradition and what I said before, not only ironically and because of beautiful. This no longer means slavery, in fact, in eyes of many dalish it probably means freedom. Why would I chose the removing? Because this also logical, in other aspect. But I didn't Solas romance, and I dont have so much knowledge in the elf lore.
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geekygirl15
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Geekygirl15
Posts: 3 Likes: 10
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geekygirl15
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by geekygirl15 on Feb 21, 2017 3:57:41 GMT
I had my removed because it was my first time playing and I was romancing Solas, and he seemed disgusted by my face. So I let him remove it. Kinda regret that now. Knowing what I know now.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2017 6:37:27 GMT
I had it removed since I never wanted to have it in the first place but we were forced to.
I have to say I found it hilarious when it was revealed the Vallaslin were literally "Property of" stamps. The irony is great.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 21, 2017 7:26:36 GMT
I had it removed since I never wanted to have it in the first place but we were forced to. I have to say I found it hilarious when it was revealed the Vallaslin were literally "Property of" stamps. The irony is great. They'd have to know about it for it to be ironic. They don't because, well, Tevinter and the Chantry took their history away from them. Laughing at their ignorance is like laughing at humans for believing Ameridan was human like them. Besides, the original point to some elves could have been to remind themselves this is what happens if they submit to another race. Their ancestors might have been aware that the vallaslin were marks of servitude and took them back as a reminder of the consequences of submitting. In short, the vallaslin could be a cultural cautionary reminder, not an "all elves club"
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2017 13:45:07 GMT
Sometimes I wonder which choice truly represents moving on from the past, but considering that Solas who is so trapped in it suggests removing the vallaslin, then keeping it may be better for this purpose.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 21, 2017 13:52:34 GMT
Sometimes I wonder which choice truly represents moving on from the past, but considering that Solas who is so trapped in it suggests removing the vallaslin, then keeping it may be better for this purpose. On the other hand, to return back to the past, to the roots can represents a new beginning as well, does not necessary to follow the same path and get stuck.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Feb 21, 2017 15:26:28 GMT
Spent far too long agonising over what colour I wanted it to be just to remove it willy nilly.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 21, 2017 15:46:23 GMT
Sometimes I wonder which choice truly represents moving on from the past, but considering that Solas who is so trapped in it suggests removing the vallaslin, then keeping it may be better for this purpose. On the other hand, to return back to the past, to the roots can represents a new beginning as well, does not necessary to follow the same path and get stuck. One might argue that there is no use in returning to the roots since the old Elvhenan will never be restored.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Feb 21, 2017 15:52:43 GMT
On the other hand, to return back to the past, to the roots can represents a new beginning as well, does not necessary to follow the same path and get stuck. One might argue that there is no use in returning to the roots since the old Elvhenan will never be restored. It is not. But life without Evanuris return in another form. And they need to be learn to live with the knowledge, that their gods are false gods.
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Absafraginlootly
"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
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absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Feb 23, 2017 7:31:21 GMT
Of my two Lavellans (twins with the non herald having stayed with the clan in my headcanon) I haven't played the one whose going to romance Solas yet, however I'm intending her to keep her vallaslin, as would my other Lavellan if given the choice.
Novala and Aeva aren't very religious and feel that what vallaslin represents now also matters, which to them represents freedom from human oppression and to have their own culture, the individual symbols representing values as much as the associated god (protector, hunter, etc). It's important to learn their history, but that doesn't mean their modern culture isn't it's own beast that can have differences and new aspects.
However, upon uncovering actual evidence of the true nature of the evanuris and the markings, as opposed to Solas's hearsay, they will spread the new knowledge of their history and encourage future vallaslin to be other symbols that don't represent the gods.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,632 Likes: 2,469
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Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 23, 2017 8:57:18 GMT
She keeps the vallaslin. She doesn't think you can compare being marked as a servant of your god with the slanted term slave marking.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 23, 2017 11:03:37 GMT
I didn't really like the face tattoos in DAO and my Mahariel didn't have them, presumably because they weren't mature enough to have been given them, since I hadn't realised the significance of them when I chose not to have them. In DAI my male Lavellan only had the vallaslin of Mythal beneath the eyes (I had my own head cannon for why this might be) and they were muted in colour because they had aged a bit over the time since he took them. I have become rather more attached to the vallaslin now because whilst Solas claims they were slave markings, we only have his word for it. Was Abelas a slave or a devoted follower? May be to Solas that amounts to the same thing. In the Dalish belief, the vallaslin are a sign of devotion to a particular god and the ideals for which they stand (which may even have been true in the beginning of their religion). Besides which, they are now also a sign of defiance, instead of slavery, and they have that meaning not just to the Dalish but to the outside world as well. They are the symbol of the elves who will not submit to anyone and I like to think that includes Solas too. (The writers of course probably have other ideas).
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 24, 2017 20:15:31 GMT
I had it removed since I never wanted to have it in the first place but we were forced to. I have to say I found it hilarious when it was revealed the Vallaslin were literally "Property of" stamps. The irony is great. Just as ironic is that for all you claim to dislike Solas, you take what he says about the Vallaslin and Evanaris at face value. The Dread Wolf is hardly the most unbiased source, and could easily be the kind of person who views all religion, regardless of context, as "slavery". Come to think of it, even before Solas' comments, you expressed a dim view of the Dalish religion and culture. Just out of curiosity, why?
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 24, 2017 20:48:23 GMT
Just as ironic is that for all you claim to dislike Solas, you take what he says about the Vallaslin and Evanaris at face value. The Dread Wolf is hardly the most unbiased source, and could easily be the kind of person who views all religion, regardless of context, as "slavery". To be fair in this particular case, he shows respect to Cassandra for her faith and explicitly won't deny the possibility of the Maker existing, since he can't prove his nonexistence. So I don't think, at least based on his words, that he's inherently biased against religions, just against what he sees as oppressive doctrines (such as how the Chantry treats Mages). Of course, that's assuming you believe his words in the first place.
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shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Feb 24, 2017 21:52:53 GMT
I'm stepping momentarily out of my forum blackout because I rememebered this amusing mishap that I kept seeing a long while ago. There were a fair number of people who immediately regretted the decision to remove the vallaslin of their character... because they'd forgotten to give Lavellan eyebrows. They hadn't noticed it because the vallaslin hid it.
This was before the release of the Black Emporium so they were stuck either just going with it or reloading to keep the vallaslin instead.
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heidirs
N1
Posts: 2
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Post by heidirs on Mar 1, 2017 0:25:33 GMT
I've totally forgot one more thing which brought my Lavellan to this decision - she's also let the past behind, she know she wasn't like other members of her clan anymore. Yes, she cared about them and yes, she used her resources to help her clan in Wycome, but the Anker changed her, the Inquisition changed her, nothing will be the same for her Same with mine. She knows she can't go back to her clan after everything. She's a different person, and she lets Solas remove them as a symbolic gesture for herself to let go. I'd never played as a female elf, so for a long time I was unsure what these discussions about Vallaslin were all about. I think there should have been an option for a male elf who was friends with Solas to get the choice for removal or keeping it. Solas never told my male Lavellan tat they were slave markings and they were friends. See, the slave markings thing is something we all think of as important info to know. But it's crucial to remember that Solas had NO intention of telling a romanced Inquisitor what those markings were. He was not going there. The ONLY reason he brings it up is because he decides to tell her he's Fen'Harel and he backs out at the very last second and has to come up with something else to tell her fast. An he goes with the thing he's starring at. "Then what I must tell you. The truth..." [oh, crap! Can't do that. Now what?] "Your face." So in the end, not even a romanced Lavellan was supposed to know. The Dread Wolf just needed a quick cover story.
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KalleDemos
N2
#Resist
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 164 Likes: 474
inherit
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#Resist
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kalledemos
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KalleDemos on Mar 1, 2017 16:58:02 GMT
My Lavellan kept hers. While the truth was painful and she was at this point committed to the Inquisition she is still Dalish and committed to The People. The Vallaslin is part of who she is. And in a certain irony in my case the Vallaslin markings were for Mythal. Lavellan shouldn't have to change for no man and of course was pissed that Solas dumped her after refusing to let him alter her face. Keeping the markings(Mythal), drinking from Vir'abelasan and falling for The Dread Wolf is all so poetic.
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