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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:01:14 GMT
Source: NeoGAFI don't know why this is changed. In ME2 and 3 you could at least still decide between "Attack" or "use most useful ability" without pausing by pressing left or right on the d-pad or Q and E on PC. This sounds like a definitive step backwards and I don't understand why this change has been made. ...Unless it's because the AI and game-systems are rebuilt from scratch (which obviously, they are since it's Frostbite) and they just didn't get those features in... or something. I just think with that and what I've heard that companions don't have loot-based armor either like in DA2, I worry that they'll feel like they're just sorta there. You can't talk to them, you can't control what they do beyond "Attack or regroup" and you can't equip them like you do yourself, so outside of the Tempest I guess all they're there for is banter and story. I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time, but you could at least pick up loot to equip them in that game, and you could control every one of them to strategize the combat. Maybe if the companions have really good AI I guess this is fine in Andromeda... but otherwise it just seems like a needless change that pushes the companion element into the background. |
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 20:11:33 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring.
Yay streamlining, I guess...
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:14:33 GMT
Unless they have other stuff they can do, which I don't expect.
Again, I don't think this is truly streamlining (though from a player's POV it is) as much as it's the fact that a lot of systems had to be remade from the ground-up because it's on a new engine. I also think their reasons for changing tactical settings in DA:I was because it was a hard system to recreate (maybe the original designer of it wasn't even at the studio anymore) and they just decided to make something less exciting since the game was so action-heavy anyway.
Otherwise it's cool enough that we've at least got our character boosted with all these crazy moves and if anything you'll probably still get the sense of teamwork from Cora making biotic detonations on your abilities. Ian just said they'll talk a bit about squad-management in the video coming out... this thursday(?) I think.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 21, 2017 20:15:37 GMT
I guess this is why Ryder has access to so many abilities. We're going to have to play every position simultaneously.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 21, 2017 20:16:13 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring. Yay streamlining, I guess... They had uses before?  |
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 20:16:14 GMT
Unless they have other stuff they can do, which I don't expect. Otherwise it's cool enough that we've at least got our character boosted with all these crazy moves and if anything you'll probably still get the sense of teamwork from Cora making biotic detonations on your abilities. Ian just said they'll talk a bit about squad-management in the video coming out... this thursday(?) I think. If the AI for MEA is anything like the AI in DAI, any teamwork will be largely coincidental. |
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 20:16:58 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring. Yay streamlining, I guess... They had uses before? You could at least manually set off their abilities for combos. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:18:56 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring. Yay streamlining, I guess... They had uses before? There was satisfaction in consciously making sure my warp collided with Miranda's pull that I made her do, and though their weapons only had like 30% damage to the player's their abilities rocked as much as your own and some squadmates had their own special abilities too, like Miranda's slam which wasn't unlockable at first, and it was cool being able to select that. It's not the end of the world, it's just a change that is harmless to anyone who didn't use the system before but needlessly worse for those who did. |
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Post by themikefest on Feb 21, 2017 20:21:26 GMT
So the only real use companions will have will be the banter they bring. Yay streamlining, I guess... Hmmm. I wonder if there will be an option to play the game solo. |
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 21, 2017 20:21:34 GMT
There is literally no sense in this unless they for some reason perceive this as a quality of life improvement.
Lame imo
Lame
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 21, 2017 20:22:13 GMT
I actually never used my squad powers manually. Squadmates have always just been bullet soaks with personality. Looks like that trend will continue.
I hate micro-managing anyway.
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 21, 2017 20:22:15 GMT
There's a big discussion about this already in the Oi! Pause! thread, and some in the gameplay video thread as well. The main concerns in the Oi! Pause! thread are: a) accessibility - that BW games have long been quite inclusive in catering to people with not only different play styles but those who aren't able to handle a frenetic, fast paced shooter, not necessarily because of skill but because of physical impairment of some kind or another, and that having a pause mode that allowed for aiming opened up the Mass Effect games to them. Removing it makes it more difficult for those people to continue to engage with the franchise.  the concept of you being a commander who took their squad into battle and commanded them on the battlefield was a selling point of the franchise, and the combat mechanic of having a power wheel (or bar) where you could assign specific commands at specific times to your squad in battle was iconic to the games. Removing that feature has many implications, be it whether it will still feel at all tactical, whether we will be able to accurately and reliably coordinate with our squad's powers, and what it means for the future of having squad mates come along in battle at all. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:23:12 GMT
Literally. It's just a change for the sake of change unless they had to make a choice and leave it on the cutting table for something more important to get done. I think it's the former in this case, but I don't understand it (yet, hopefully)
If BioWare were truly "inclusive" they wouldn't exclude the functionality that the more strategic players crave. this is probably some result of focus testing or catering to mainstream players who don't seem to ever use the tactical commands anyway. They go where the common denominator is, and as usual it's the lowest because gaming is so mainstream now.
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Post by crom on Feb 21, 2017 20:24:19 GMT
Very disappointing, this stuff was the fun stuff in mass effect series. Why why why? Only thing I have hope for is what they replaced it with is much better but I really have doubts on it.
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Post by Reznore on Feb 21, 2017 20:25:21 GMT
I use companions as meatshields, always had so that doesn't change anything for me.
I guess taking cloak and reviving Liam who went wolverine and is now laying flat on the floor will just have to be part of the MEA experience.
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Post by Iakus on Feb 21, 2017 20:25:25 GMT
There's a big discussion about this already in the Oi! Pause! thread, and some in the gameplay video thread as well. The main concerns in the Oi! Pause! thread are: a) accessibility - that BW games have long been quite inclusive in catering to people with not only different play styles but those who aren't able to handle a frenetic, fast paced shooter, not necessarily because of skill but because of physical impairment of some kind or another, and that having a pause mode that allowed for aiming opened up the Mass Effect games to them. Removing it makes it more difficult for those people to continue to engage with the franchise. the concept of you being a commander who took their squad into battle and commanded them on the battlefield was a selling point of the franchise, and the combat mechanic of having a power wheel (or bar) where you could assign specific commands at specific times to your squad in battle was iconic to the games. Removing that feature has many implications, be it whether it will still feel at all tactical, whether we will be able to accurately and reliably coordinate with our squad's powers, and what it means for the future of having squad mates come along in battle at all. I guess frenetic, fast-paced shooters are what sell... |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:27:50 GMT
What, does SAM suddenly contain the in-universe explanation for how the player interacts with their character by pressing on buttons? This doesn't matter, there has to be some border that defines what is there because "videogame" and what is there because it's just the way the game-world works and party-control was never not a meta-thing. There's not really any good excuse for this unless something else is in its place.
I'm hoping this is a DA2 situation where you lose a lot of things that didn't need to be taken away or changed but over time realize that the game has different qualities that improve it. I just hope it's not just gone in favor of nothing and a lot of the game is just classic Mass Effect but this essential feature.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 21, 2017 20:31:05 GMT
They had uses before? There was satisfaction in consciously making sure my warp collided with Miranda's pull that I made her do, and though their weapons only had like 30% damage to the player's their abilities rocked as much as your own and some squadmates had their own special abilities too, like Miranda's slam which wasn't unlockable at first, and it was cool being able to select that. It's not the end of the world, it's just a change that is harmless to anyone who didn't use the system before but needlessly worse for those who did. True, Kasumi's Shadow Strike was pretty awesome. Thankfully she also excercised good judgement on where/when to use it. Except for the time she did it on a mook who was already frozen and sniped by me and slammed by Miranda. Lots of bouncing and glitching and good times  |
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Post by hydroflame20 on Feb 21, 2017 20:31:59 GMT
Well I'm disappointed in this but at the same time I am willing to wait and see for myself how this turns out when I play.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2017 20:34:04 GMT
I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time Huh? |
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 21, 2017 20:34:52 GMT
The reason for it, I think, is very simple: the team who did ME3's multiplayer have done MEA's single player combat.
They saw how much people liked ME3's MP, and iterated on it.
For them, the tactical side of combat that the power wheel/bar gave players isn't important, and is therefore expendable.
A point I made on the other thread: I very much hope that in another trailer they explicitly state "you can no longer give your squad mates direct power commands, although you can still direct them to generally attack a specific target" because there are going to be a lot of people out there who don't read the forums and for whom it will be a given that one of the core mechanics of the last 3 games will still be there. Otherwise it'll be a bit of a shock when they get in the game - especially if they're one of the people who relied on it because of physical limitations.
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 21, 2017 20:41:00 GMT
I wonder how they're going to market it off.
Amazing new A.I. technology? A focus on you the character made them decide that worrying about your squad was counterintuitive and took away from the experience?
Commanding your squad was a very Shepherd thing to do, and we need to move away from that mindset
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Post by Cypher on Feb 21, 2017 20:42:52 GMT
So what's the point in having a squad then?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 21, 2017 20:44:39 GMT
I dunno, I just think that reinforces the issues DA:I had where companions already didn't fit very well into the kind of open-world thing it had going on because they just get in your way a lot of the time Huh? Their collision masks were way off and they'd often stand too close to you or in doors so you had to move them to exit, and their pathfinding was god damn atrocious. As an open world game where you walk around in a huge area exploring things they were just sorta there whenever there was no combat. During story-missions I liked them and I liked when they chimed into dialogue, but when just exploring during gameplay the companion feature felt disconnected to me compared to how it feels in normal BioWare games. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 20:45:20 GMT
That's fine with me. They never listened to me anyways (seriously if Ashley or Tali changed guns ONE MORE TIME...), so why should I care what they use?  |
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Be seeing you.
the concept of you being a commander who took their squad into battle and commanded them on the battlefield was a selling point of the franchise, and the combat mechanic of having a power wheel (or bar) where you could assign specific commands at specific times to your squad in battle was iconic to the games. Removing that feature has many implications, be it whether it will still feel at all tactical, whether we will be able to accurately and reliably coordinate with our squad's powers, and what it means for the future of having squad mates come along in battle at all.
