Wynne
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Post by Wynne on Feb 23, 2017 8:40:24 GMT
You do realize that you miss the option of: No, but I do not mind playing a full dwarf. Why on earth mess with Mary-Sueish halves? One of two things BioWARE did exceptionally well in the setting was Dwarven race, in backgrounds, looks and a number of likable characters (there are more likable and interesting dwarves in the first two games than there are Elves, and likely Humans too). If I have liked DA franchise enough for another play-through, I'd replay the DA:O as a dwarf. There are people who can only play as mages, but if playing a rogue is as good as it is in DA2, and warrior play gets improved from there, why not? Mary-Sueish? I don't see how a half-dwarf would automatically be a Mary Sue. That's illogical. This poll has nothing to do with regular dwarves, as those are already in the game. That option would be pointless. I love the dwarves. I play the dwarves. I'm not knocking dwarves. But I would enjoy being able to play (half of) my favorite race and my favorite class together, and I think it could be interesting. That is all.
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Wynne
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Post by Wynne on Feb 23, 2017 9:01:09 GMT
I'd be concerned about the potential mental trauma - half of your character can dream and the other half can't. That does not sound like a recipe for a well balanced person. Also - on the topic of half dwarves Wasn't that either implied or outright stated in Origins or 2...? I'm sure I'm not imagining it... I admit, I thought about Sandal. This would be an explanation to this "Not enchantment" scene on the Deep Roads (DA2). I don't think that "half of your character can dream and the other half can't", but interesting question. Recessive or dominant... or more complicated inherited trait... DA have silly genetics. Magic sure does muddle the equation. I hadn't thought about what it might be like if Kieran were half-dwarf! Maybe we'll see him being shorter than the average human once he's grown? That might be interesting, if he pops up again. To Jadedragon--Just to correct that, since it's probably not widely circulated information, we do have CANON stating that half-dwarves exist and are in between the height of a human and a dwarf. If Kieran ends up fully human-heighted once grown, maybe it's a magical thing or individual thing or maybe it's just too much to have to alter Kieran that drastically, but that does not change the canon already stated. Human genes erase elven genes. They do not dominate dwarven ones. Elves likely did this magically on purpose as a means of protection from half-elven spies trying to jack their magical protections (see The Masked Empire.) So I would assume an elf/dwarf would be fully dwarven, and an elf/qunari fully qunari if those pairings would work. But a qunari/human or dwarf/human might well be half and half. As for Alistair, you can also get special dialogue with Fiona if he shows up as the lonely, bitter Grey Warden. (Hawke is so gonna die in that playthrough. Sorry, Champion! I can't kill him and make his mother grieve.)
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Post by adrianbc on Feb 23, 2017 10:00:50 GMT
Human genes erase elven genes. They do not dominate dwarven ones. Elves likely did this magically on purpose as a means of protection from half-elven spies trying to jack their magical protections (see The Masked Empire.) So I would assume an elf/dwarf would be fully dwarven, and an elf/qunari fully qunari if those pairings would work. But a qunari/human or dwarf/human might well be half and half. I`m sorry, but genes does not work that way. Every child inherits half of the genes from each parent. There is no mechanism to erase genes from a parent. Genes can be silenced by epigenetic mechanisms, which means: the genes are there, but not used. Genes responsible for racial differences are usually few in number, and these can be silenced. The idea of elves made this on purpose is possible, but not likely, since it means to alter the Elven genome: to change the body expression genes for every living elf, to ensure that a half human - half elf would never pass as an elf. And I seriously doubt that. On the other hand, if say humans are a more recent race and descendants of elves - either as a random event (genetic mutation) or made on purpose by a DA God or super-mage - it`s possible that any offspring with a mixed human - elf parentage will look more like humans than elves. After encountering Feynriel, Alistair looked to me to have similar facial features. If this is the case, and humans are the more recent of the races, it`s maybe possible that the same outcome to appear in case of a half human - half dwarf child: they will look more like humans, with very little dwarven features. There is a real-world fact to consider when thinking about half-elves and half-dwarfs: since almost every human on Earth has a bit of Neanderthal genome (usually between 1-3 %, but sometimes close to 4.5%), the only way for Neanderthal genes to make their way into our genome is by children between Humans and Neanderthals. And we don`t really have Neanderthal features. They were heavier, stronger and with significantly bigger brains than Humans (around 200 cc more volume). By the time Humans encountered Neanderthals in Eurasia, they were almost different species, with the chance of living offspring quite rare. At least this is the scientific viewpoint right now. I have no idea if Bioware`s writers are considering genetics for their world building. But for the reasons presented above, Kieran`s appearance can be accepted as good even if the Warden was an elf or a dwarf. But this doesn`t mean that Kieran cannot have non-visible skills or talents from the father. It`s quite possible, since the genes for such skills are different from those for the body (how the body looks).
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Wynne
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Post by Wynne on Feb 23, 2017 10:27:21 GMT
Human genes erase elven genes. They do not dominate dwarven ones. Elves likely did this magically on purpose as a means of protection from half-elven spies trying to jack their magical protections (see The Masked Empire.) So I would assume an elf/dwarf would be fully dwarven, and an elf/qunari fully qunari if those pairings would work. But a qunari/human or dwarf/human might well be half and half. I`m sorry, but genes does not work that way. ...in the real world, without magic. I know that. But again, we're talking about magic. So that argument is irrelevant. This is not real world genetics we're talking about. This is elves, using magic to tamper with how things work, probably to protect their secrets.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 23, 2017 10:34:16 GMT
I have no idea if Bioware`s writers are considering genetics for their world building. But for the reasons presented above, Kieran`s appearance can be accepted as good even if the Warden was an elf or a dwarf. But this doesn`t mean that Kieran cannot have non-visible skills or talents from the father. It`s quite possible, since the genes for such skills are different from those for the body (how the body looks). They do consider genetics at least as far as magic is concerned. Dorian tells us that the altus class in Tevinter specifically breed for magic, so the idea is there in the lore to some degree.
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Wynne
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Post by Wynne on Feb 23, 2017 10:42:15 GMT
Absolutely, genes matter--I have not at any point said they don't. I have even lightly studied how they work in the real world, as you can see if you look closely at my posts. But elves apparently magically tampered with the way their own genes work so that they can only reproduce elves with other elves. Foreign genes will magically override all elven traits, or so it would seem.
I never said genes didn't exist or shouldn't be considered--as I said, they do matter in cases not involving elves, or half-dwarves wouldn't have been mentioned as canonically being a thing--that seems to be a case where genes work normally. I have been saying that the elves apparently used magic to prevent half-breeds from existing and possibly compromising their wards to their enemies. That is my best guess at this time, that it was a deliberate strategical move.
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adrianbc
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Post by adrianbc on Feb 23, 2017 11:03:27 GMT
Absolutely, genes matter--I have not at any point said they don't. I have even lightly studied how they work in the real world, as you can see if you look closely at my posts. But elves apparently magically tampered with the way their own genes work so that they can only reproduce elves with other elves. Foreign genes will magically override all elven traits, or so it would seem. I never said genes didn't exist or shouldn't be considered--as I said, they do matter in cases not involving elves, or half-dwarves wouldn't have been mentioned as canonically being a thing--that seems to be a case where genes work normally. I have been saying that the elves apparently used magic to prevent half-breeds from existing and possibly compromising their wards to their enemies. That is my best guess at this time, that it was a deliberate strategical move. This would be a great idea for Dragon Age universe. Unfortunately, there is no clue that Bioware is thinking this way, by considering genetics seriously in their world-building. This is why I also dismissed a lot of alternative explanations concerning the races of Thedas. Bioware`s writers were careless about a lot of events, one of them being Morrigan`s Dark Ritual, which made all three races practically related. Your idea is very good, make sense and I liked it a lot. Unfortunately, it seems that David Gaider, Patrick Weekes or any BW`s writer never thought about it, or about the consequences of having half human and half elf/dwarf children. Maybe someone from BW will read this thread, and who knows?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 12:48:54 GMT
You do realize that you miss the option of: No, but I do not mind playing a full dwarf. Why on earth mess with Mary-Sueish halves? One of two things BioWARE did exceptionally well in the setting was Dwarven race, in backgrounds, looks and a number of likable characters (there are more likable and interesting dwarves in the first two games than there are Elves, and likely Humans too). If I have liked DA franchise enough for another play-through, I'd replay the DA:O as a dwarf. There are people who can only play as mages, but if playing a rogue is as good as it is in DA2, and warrior play gets improved from there, why not? Mary-Sueish? I don't see how a half-dwarf would automatically be a Mary Sue. That's illogical. This poll has nothing to do with regular dwarves, as those are already in the game. That option would be pointless. I love the dwarves. I play the dwarves. I'm not knocking dwarves. But I would enjoy being able to play (half of) my favorite race and my favorite class together, and I think it could be interesting. That is all. The only way to say "no" on your poll is to imply that you, the naysayer, hate dwarves. All the answers to your poll assume that people do not want to play a dwarf, and playing a half dwarf somehow will make it more palatable for them. There is no way to say, no, I do not want to play a half-dwarf, because I am fine playing a full dwarf. You are extremely manipulative of opinions in the way you word the poll options. Half-races that are extremely rare and precise are one of the hall marks of Mary Sue characters and you are suggesting in your Post that you want convo options that would highlight just how special the character is. In fact you specifically use words "marvel at your unicor-ness" So, no only you would want a separate body type and face sculpts developed for a new race, but you also want extra dialogues that are friendly and at awe of a weird and mixed blood race. To date, not a single other race liked the other race on Thedas (at least not in the first two DAs), BioWare went into tons of troubles to knock down elves off their lofty perch accorded to them in fantasy normally, and they really made half-elf character into a rather miserable guy in DA2. Maybe Sandal is a half-dwarf, and that's why they are rare, because the blood mix results in genetic abnormalities, leading to mental or physical disabilities, with some half-dwarves getting a savant aptitude for magic. That would be more in tune with the realities of the Thedas world, then a taller half dwarves everyone on the surface thinks awesome. Oh, and probably the noblemen in the Thaigs can't wait to welcome them too with open arms. Maybe they even pay goog Lirium for surface concubines to make them half-dwarven babies, because they are so much more awesome than the full-blooded ones!
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Post by Princess Trejo on Feb 23, 2017 14:54:51 GMT
Shouldn't half-dwarfs be called Hobbits? whatever... half-Qunari is better. The superior strength and wisdom beats all.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 23, 2017 20:24:44 GMT
You do realize that you miss the option of: No, but I do not mind playing a full dwarf. Why on earth mess with Mary-Sueish halves? One of two things BioWARE did exceptionally well in the setting was Dwarven race, in backgrounds, looks and a number of likable characters (there are more likable and interesting dwarves in the first two games than there are Elves, and likely Humans too). If I have liked DA franchise enough for another play-through, I'd replay the DA:O as a dwarf. There are people who can only play as mages, but if playing a rogue is as good as it is in DA2, and warrior play gets improved from there, why not? Mary-Sueish? I don't see how a half-dwarf would automatically be a Mary Sue. That's illogical. This poll has nothing to do with regular dwarves, as those are already in the game. That option would be pointless. I love the dwarves. I play the dwarves. I'm not knocking dwarves. But I would enjoy being able to play (half of) my favorite race and my favorite class together, and I think it could be interesting. That is all. Valta and the Titans paved the way for potential fully Dwarf Mages in the future. Also, whatever Solas might do to the Veil might allow some Dwarves to use magic. Both without needing non Dwarf genes. My personal preference would be that, lorewise at least, Dwarf Mages remain extremely rare. Dwarven immunity to magic is one of the few things that make them unique in Dragon Age, so I'd like to see that preserved.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 21:04:30 GMT
Only reason for Half Dwarfs is to rock the mage class, so yeah i would do it for that. As to Dwarfs in general, it is the race i play the most so i would still use it for Rogues and Warriors.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 1:06:58 GMT
But you can't play half-breeds in DA though...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 1:08:32 GMT
Shouldn't half-dwarfs be called Hobbits? whatever... half-Qunari is better. The superior strength and wisdom beats all.
But they don't exist in the DA verse. Half-Breeds don't. I think a half-human dwarf would basically be a tall Dwarf and Idk what a dwarf/elf hybrid looks like; but I'm gonna guess their Dwarf's, not elves.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 9:59:51 GMT
I got a better question-can you even HAVE hybrids in the DA universe? I mean, I think someone said in one of the novels it's hinted at that Fiona is actually Alistair's mom, but if that's the case, he doesn't look a damn bit elfy of ANY of the designs in all three games. I don't think I've ever heard of a single half-elf, half-dwarf, half-Qunari, etc in all 3 games. I don't think hybrid's exist in the DA-verse....
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Post by Iddy on Feb 24, 2017 11:44:54 GMT
Feynriel looked very elfy. I guess the writers hadn't come up with the "no hybrids" idea yet.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 24, 2017 12:29:18 GMT
Feynriel looked very elfy. I guess the writers hadn't come up with the "no hybrids" idea yet. They wrote somewhere, that Feynriel's apperance was a mistake. But If you lok at Feynriel, you can see, tha he's human, with a bit narrower face, than the average, but his eyes are normal, human eyes, don't have pointed ears (perhaps a bit, and perhaps this was the mistake), and not at all "elfy". His body shape is strong: rather Hawke than Anders, and so far from Huon for example. His colours more similar as his mother, but he clearly not elf. So: superficial glance we can say, that he is "elfy": narrow face and the similarity to his mother, but he don't have physical characteristics, what would not human. But he have strong magical abilities and connection to the Fade. This is the trait, what he inherited from the elves, but this is not against the lore. This body and face clearly human:
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 26, 2017 2:50:08 GMT
I'd play a half-dwarf if only because it guarantees at least one awesome parent.
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Post by Gilsa on Feb 26, 2017 9:11:13 GMT
It would not be my first choice. I'd only play a half-dwarf once to check out the dwarf-specific dialogue, but I prefer the original dwarves. After the Descent DLC with Shaper Valta becoming a mage, I suspect we're going to find out more about dwarves in the future and possibly run into dwarves in Deep Roads that still retain a spark of what they once were. It would be preferable if dwarves were allowed to unlock a magic specialization over the course of a future game as they dig into their history. Solas definitely knows more about the dwarves than he's letting on.
Furthermore, some people complain about resources being dedicated to additional races when they feel that extra polish could be channeled into humans instead. Creating yet another race to that list isn't going to do anyone any favors because the rest will start to ask for half-qunari, half-elves, and half-mabari.
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Post by adrianbc on Feb 26, 2017 9:23:15 GMT
It would not be my first choice. I'd only play a half-dwarf once to check out the dwarf-specific dialogue, but I prefer the original dwarves. After the Descent DLC with Shaper Valta becoming a mage, I suspect we're going to find out more about dwarves in the future and possibly run into dwarves in Deep Roads that still retain a spark of what they once were. It would be preferable if dwarves were allowed to unlock a magic specialization over the course of a future game as they dig into their history. Solas definitely knows more about the dwarves than he's letting on. Furthermore, some people complain about resources being dedicated to additional races when they feel that extra polish could be channeled into humans instead. Creating yet another race to that list isn't going to do anyone any favors because the rest will start to ask for half-qunari, half-elves, and half-mabari. You won me over with the half-mabari example. The Pandora box for mixed race characters was open with Morrigan`s Dark Ritual, which guaranteed a child for an elven or dwarven Warden with a human mother. So it`s not necessary for Bioware to go creating a lore for half-elves or half-dwarfs. It`s easier to just make Kieran as an option for the DA4 protagonist. Which means he can also be half-elf or half-dwarf, not just human. More than that, Bioware can change the cannon once again and make Morrigan a mother as standard, with a secret, hidden child if there is no Kieran. And her daughter/son to be the new protagonist. Meaning that only human and half race protagonists will be available for DA4. Why not?
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Post by Wynne on Mar 1, 2017 6:14:29 GMT
Hmm. Now, I haven't played Descent, personally--apparently, I should have, because that sounds fascinating. I did see the Solas possibility, but that may end up depending on player choice to the point where I'm hesitant to hope. Still, I would be overjoyed to play a Dwarven Mage or a Half-Dwarf or both. I would prefer for DMs to be rare as well. People should look at you funny, like they're unsure if you're just messing with them. It might be a fun running gag if only your companions really believe you, and everywhere else you go no one does unless you visibly demonstrate in some way.
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