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Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 14:43:47 GMT
When you're playing a common person, it's easier to understand people believing you are "blessed with the Maker's gift", but a mage? It isn't that weird, really. And considering that one of the npcs at Haven thinks the "mages probably MADE the damn Breach", it stands to reason that a mage *potentially* could close the damn Breach without being divinely touched.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Feb 23, 2017 14:54:40 GMT
When you're playing a common person, it's easier to understand people believing you are "blessed with the Maker's gift", but a mage? It isn't that weird, really. And considering that one of the npcs at Haven thinks the "mages probably MADE the damn Breach", it stands to reason that a mage *potentially* could close the damn Breach without being divinely touched. ...but a qunari?
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Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 15:04:46 GMT
When you're playing a common person, it's easier to understand people believing you are "blessed with the Maker's gift", but a mage? It isn't that weird, really. And considering that one of the npcs at Haven thinks the "mages probably MADE the damn Breach", it stands to reason that a mage *potentially* could close the damn Breach without being divinely touched. ...but a qunari?
That's an entirely different subject. I'm not talking about whether the Inquisitor would be liked or accepted by the religious folk, but how much the ability to close the Breach can serve as evidence if s/he is a mage. |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 23, 2017 15:10:48 GMT
That's an entirely different subject. I'm not talking about whether the Inquisitor would be liked or accepted by the religious folk, but how much the ability to close the Breach can serve as evidence if s/he is a mage. Yes, I see, okay, so: At first they were believed that s/he is a murderer. Solas don't knew about such a power (at least didn't told it to Cassandra). And I don't think, that anyone would know a mage, who would be capable to it. Inquisitor's hand was the sign, not just the ability. Cassandra believes, that this is the Maker's gift, so the Inquisition also believe that. And it proved, that this is effective. The Divine died. Was important to replace it with something. The faith is important in the hard times. (This is why my Inquisitors accept their "Herald of Andraste" title, even they don't believe/don't know, what is it exactly – and the faith make easier to lead the people, just a few people interested in real explanation.) Of course, a warrior / rogue much more spectacular. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 23, 2017 18:44:23 GMT
Ordinarily that might be true but this is magic on a really large scale. Also, you are not the only mage in the Inquisition and yet no one else seemed to be able to do what you do. If Solas is speaking the truth during the Haven Fade sequence, he claims to have actually tried to close the rift with his magic but was unable to do so. Even if he didn't actually try fixing the big one, he may have tried mending the smaller tears without success. So it would be evident to all those around you that, even if you are a mage, you are able to do things that no other normal mage can do. Hence the conviction that you have been blessed by the Maker, since if they trouble to read the Chant properly they will know that Andraste said that magic was the gift of the Maker (not a curse as maintained by many in the Chantry) and therefore if you have a big powerful magic at your disposal, that indicates and even bigger gift.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 23, 2017 18:54:50 GMT
It doesn't matter what your profession is, you fell out of the damn Fade after the explosion at the Conclave. That's what gives folks the idea of divine intervention, not how you make a living.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 23, 2017 19:22:33 GMT
It doesn't matter what your profession is, you fell out of the damn Fade after the explosion at the Conclave. That's what gives folks the idea of divine intervention, not how you make a living. Well... it isn't a profession. You can't just learn how to become a mage. You either are one or you're not. |
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 23, 2017 19:28:20 GMT
No other mage can close rifts. Your power is no less miraculous because you also happen to cast spells.
If I jumped to the moon, would my accomplishment be somehow less impressive because I was also an Olympic athlete?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 23, 2017 19:58:05 GMT
It doesn't matter what your profession is, you fell out of the damn Fade after the explosion at the Conclave. That's what gives folks the idea of divine intervention, not how you make a living. Well... it isn't a profession. You can't just learn how to become a mage. You either are one or you're not. It used the term "profession" loosely. I didn't want to use "class," because you were asking a question from an in-game perspective and they don't go around talking about each other's classes. And that should be the end of it, but I'm intrigued by your non sequitur statement. "You can't just learn how to become a mage. You either are one or you're not." That's an odd combination of statements. I mean, I get the second part, the ability to do magic is innate in some way. But the first part challenges the legitimacy of Circle towers as places of learning and training. I mean, what are those people doing in the Circle towers if not learning how to be mages? Apart from the prison aspect that Morrigan and Solas like to complain about. Isn't the Harrowing the culmination of exactly this "learning how to become a mage"? Is it not a fair statement to say, "Born an apostate, trained to be a mage?" You could almost call that the Circle's recruitment motto, like the US Army's, "Be all you can be!" |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 24, 2017 2:30:06 GMT
^ They're not learning how to be mages. They're learning how to control and use the power they have innately as mages.
A mage is something people are in the DA universe, it is not something people do. You can have a mage who fights exclusively with melee weapons and doesn't like to use their magic at all, but they are still a mage because they have that connection to the Fade that is unique to mages.
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geekygirl15
N1
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Geekygirl15
Posts: 3 Likes: 10
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Feb 27, 2017 16:57:12 GMT
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Post by geekygirl15 on Feb 24, 2017 3:57:24 GMT
I think most miraculous inquisitor would be a dwarf because they are furthest thing from magic you can get. People should be all "end of days" " up is down and left us right" when stuff like that is happening. Where as magic as is usually ends being OP. You could have seen some rookie mage a little to eager to mess with magic not yet properly learned, causing something of equal chaos and destruction. It's all because mages can power themselves and practice so super sayian like no other fighting class can.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 24, 2017 23:41:44 GMT
^ They're not learning how to be mages. They're learning how to control and use the power they have innately as mages. A mage is something people are in the DA universe, it is not something people do. You can have a mage who fights exclusively with melee weapons and doesn't like to use their magic at all, but they are still a mage because they have that connection to the Fade that is unique to mages. Everything you said is supported by all the Codex entries I could find. I suppose you're right, but man, that lack of symmetry bugs me. Classes are professions for everyone else. What is a Circle-trained mage's title? Everyone else has a title: Dalish have The Keeper and The First, Tevinter has all kinds of ranks, Rivain has Seers. If they just call them "Mage," that's even more annoying. NOTE: With what we know about the Veil now, it may turn out that "mageness" as an in-born trait is more a matter of degree than distinction, or doesn't even exist, if the differences between individuals are just an artifact of the Veil. Mageness may be innate in everyone, even dwarves, so where would that leave the definition of "mage"? |
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I was called Ryder before it was cool... ...I'd love to, you know, be social and things.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Feb 25, 2017 0:06:04 GMT
It doesn't matter what your profession is, you fell out of the damn Fade after the explosion at the Conclave. Yep. People saw you fall out of the Fade after being touched by what they thought was Andraste herself (at least if I remember correctly). It's not about the Mark as much as that. What is a Circle-trained mage's title? Everyone else has a title: Dalish have The Keeper and The First, Tevinter has all kinds of ranks, Rivain has Seers. If they just call them "Mage," that's even more annoying. Well, it depends what they do. There are some titles, such as Senior Enchanter, Apprentice, etc. I believe Circle mages make potions, experiment, study lore, and sometimes fight in the military or serve as healers as "professions", so there could be many other titles, some that happen to be the same as what mundanes do, such as Scholar or Alchemist. |
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 25, 2017 1:34:15 GMT
^ They're not learning how to be mages. They're learning how to control and use the power they have innately as mages. A mage is something people are in the DA universe, it is not something people do. You can have a mage who fights exclusively with melee weapons and doesn't like to use their magic at all, but they are still a mage because they have that connection to the Fade that is unique to mages. Everything you said is supported by all the Codex entries I could find. I suppose you're right, but man, that lack of symmetry bugs me. Classes are professions for everyone else. What is a Circle-trained mage's title? Everyone else has a title: Dalish have The Keeper and The First, Tevinter has all kinds of ranks, Rivain has Seers. If they just call them "Mage," that's even more annoying. NOTE: With what we know about the Veil now, it may turn out that "mageness" as an in-born trait is more a matter of degree than distinction, or doesn't even exist, if the differences between individuals are just an artifact of the Veil. Mageness may be innate in everyone, even dwarves, so where would that leave the definition of "mage"? Circle-trained mages have ranks: apprentice, enchanter, senior enchanter. Outside of first enchanter, which is held by one individual in a given Circle, and grand enchanter, a special title, I don't know if there are any other formal ranks. Dorian, for example, holds the rank of enchanter, as he attained that while in the Minrathous Circle while working and studying under Alexius. He was working toward senior enchanter when everything went downhill and never attained that rank. Many of the other Circle mages we've met all have whatever rank. Now, the mage origin in DAO has the Warden PC graduating from apprentice to mage after their harrowing is complete. This is the only oddity I've observed with the rankings clashing with the class. After a mage passes their harrowing, they "earn{s} the title and trappings of a mage, becoming a full member of the Circle." So it seems to me that the Circle system uses the term to legitimize mageness, as opposed to being an apostate mage, which makes sense with what we know of the Circle system as a whole. As to your remarks on the Veil, I would prefer that they not mess with mageness, or the mage class in that way. Having that distinction for magic users in the Dragon Age universe is one thing that makes it unique. |
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Post by dayze on Feb 26, 2017 1:57:10 GMT
Ordinarily that might be true but this is magic on a really large scale. Also, you are not the only mage in the Inquisition and yet no one else seemed to be able to do what you do. If Solas is speaking the truth during the Haven Fade sequence, he claims to have actually tried to close the rift with his magic but was unable to do so. Even if he didn't actually try fixing the big one, he may have tried mending the smaller tears without success. So it would be evident to all those around you that, even if you are a mage, you are able to do things that no other normal mage can do. Hence the conviction that you have been blessed by the Maker, since if they trouble to read the Chant properly they will know that Andraste said that magic was the gift of the Maker (not a curse as maintained by many in the Chantry) and therefore if you have a big powerful magic at your disposal, that indicates and even bigger gift. Later on you can have either Templars "or" Mages help with closing that big rift. So maybe the mages couldn't figure it out initially but not to long into it; it starts to become significantly less impressive. |
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Post by xerrai on Feb 27, 2017 15:45:58 GMT
Ordinarily that might be true but this is magic on a really large scale. Also, you are not the only mage in the Inquisition and yet no one else seemed to be able to do what you do. If Solas is speaking the truth during the Haven Fade sequence, he claims to have actually tried to close the rift with his magic but was unable to do so. Even if he didn't actually try fixing the big one, he may have tried mending the smaller tears without success. So it would be evident to all those around you that, even if you are a mage, you are able to do things that no other normal mage can do. Hence the conviction that you have been blessed by the Maker, since if they trouble to read the Chant properly they will know that Andraste said that magic was the gift of the Maker (not a curse as maintained by many in the Chantry) and therefore if you have a big powerful magic at your disposal, that indicates and even bigger gift. Later on you can have either Templars "or" Mages help with closing that big rift. So maybe the mages couldn't figure it out initially but not to long into it; it starts to become significantly less impressive. Except the mages/templars didn't really seal the breach---they either enhanced the mark (mages) or weakened the energy around the rift (templars). It was the inquisitor and his/her mark that made closing the rift possible. It is the fact that only the Inquisitor can seal the rifts that made the Inquisitor so invaluable, as no force of mages or templars could do it on their own without the mark. Party banter with Vivienne and Bull reveals that the Circle of Magi know little about rifts. And while certain parties (ex. Mages' Collective) ended up researching the rifts, the process was a very dangerous endeavor, and primarily resulted in discovering a new form of magic (rift mage) and not necessarily anything pertaining to closing rifts. Events in prior games that included sealing rifts (like that quest in Blackmarsh) either included activating artifacts that opened the rift in the first place or killing or gaining the help of a powerful demon. The one time we do see a veil tear sealed by a mortal was with Avernus in DAO, and even that feat was considered extraordinary considering that Avernus studied the phenomena for several years and already had substantial knowledge on the fade and demons. So the fact that the Inquisitor can seal the rifts with ease is substantially impressive, if not miraculous, by modern Thedosian standards. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Feb 27, 2017 17:01:50 GMT
Ordinarily that might be true but this is magic on a really large scale. Also, you are not the only mage in the Inquisition and yet no one else seemed to be able to do what you do. If Solas is speaking the truth during the Haven Fade sequence, he claims to have actually tried to close the rift with his magic but was unable to do so. Even if he didn't actually try fixing the big one, he may have tried mending the smaller tears without success. So it would be evident to all those around you that, even if you are a mage, you are able to do things that no other normal mage can do. Hence the conviction that you have been blessed by the Maker, since if they trouble to read the Chant properly they will know that Andraste said that magic was the gift of the Maker (not a curse as maintained by many in the Chantry) and therefore if you have a big powerful magic at your disposal, that indicates and even bigger gift. Later on you can have either Templars "or" Mages help with closing that big rift. So maybe the mages couldn't figure it out initially but not to long into it; it starts to become significantly less impressive. The Mages/Templars only help to protect the Inquisitor until s/he perform this process. |
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 1, 2017 7:36:13 GMT
When you're playing a common person, it's easier to understand people believing you are "blessed with the Maker's gift", but a mage? It isn't that weird, really. And considering that one of the npcs at Haven thinks the "mages probably MADE the damn Breach", it stands to reason that a mage *potentially* could close the damn Breach without being divinely touched. I think the mages at Haven itself probably tried to seal the rifts, and if they did we're given no reason to believe they succeeded. If they couldn't, they'd conclude that someone who'd closed the rifts might be something more than they are on the strength of that. Apostates who'd tried to do the same thing could have come to the same conclusion for the same reasons. People who know those mages would hear from them of their failure, and probably come to the same conclusion. As for the common, ignorant people, most of them probably wouldn't believe that being a mage is enough, because they apparently tend not to believe that anything good can come from magic. Those who believed that a mage had closed the Breach at all would probably try to rationalize it, and figure out what made this mage different. Add to that the previously mentioned fact that the Inquisitor was seen falling out of the Fade accompanied by a mysterious woman, and the fact that shortly after closing the Breach the Inquisitor survived an encounter with Corypheus where the darkspawn magister by all rights should have killed them, and it's not hard to believe that people would start to wonder if the Inquisitor was divine. Later on you can have either Templars "or" Mages help with closing that big rift. So maybe the mages couldn't figure it out initially but not to long into it; it starts to become significantly less impressive. The Mages/Templars only help to protect the Inquisitor until s/he perform this process. No they don't. Cassandra (or someone: I don't remember who) says the mages are pouring magic into the mark. Cullen says the templars are weakening the Breach so that the Mark's own power is enough. Solas says to either group that they have to "focus past the Herald" and "let [their] will draw upon yours" or something right before we watch them actively participate in the ritual from a position far enough removed from the Inquisitor that there's not much sword-wielding templars can do to protect the Inquisitor. Not to mention that if all the Inquisitor needed was protection, there'd be little reason to use either group. Ordinary soldiers would do the trick, if you had enough of them to make up for their severe disadvantage against even lesser demons, and there's no end of sources to get those from. |
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