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Post by Gaston on Jul 20, 2017 23:52:42 GMT
I genuinely wonder whether people are actually aware that only an actor for a tv show has changed which has happened many times before, or whether their obsessions will keep making them look stupid BUT DON'T YOU REALIZE HOW BIG OF A DEAL THIS IS? EVEN YOUR PROPHET ANITA THINKS SO!
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 21, 2017 0:00:17 GMT
Okay, and how can it handle a teenage female body when it was made to fit an adult man? Also, how can you not see how fucking stupid it is that some teenage wonder child replaces a multi-billionaire senior nuclear scientist, and somehow manages to be his equal if not his superior? That, if anything, irked me way more than Iron Heart (what a dumb name tbh) being a black woman with an afro. To be honest, they should have made Pepper replace Tony Stark. Now she would have been an Iron Woman I'd support. And she's already an established and beloved character. But that would make too much sense and that would have been too cool and we can't have that of course. I mean, we all know that casting white women isn't "progressive" enough anymore these days, prophet Anita said so. It has to be a black, trans and preferably lesbian woman, and above all it has to piss off the old guard / traditional fans. Okay, 1. It wasn't designed to fit an adult male. Riri's armor was custom fitted for her. Iron Man suits are a dime a dozen in the MCU. Variations happen all the time. 2. Pepper Potts has replaced Tony, in her "rescue armor." She stills dons it occasionally, and specifically donned it the first time she spoke to Riri. Then she proceeded to save Riri from attacking bad guys. Never, ever has it been implied that Riri has somehow surpassed Tony as a superhero. She's his protege, and specifically treated as someone with a lot to learn. There is really only one thing that bothers me about Riri and that's something I read in a comic someone showed me about her origin story. When she was in elementary school, her teacher asked her what she wanted to do and she said astronaut. Her teacher said "sure, you can make that happen." Riri is disappointed, saying that she was hoping her teacher would say 'Someone like you couldn't do that' like the first black female astronaut's teacher so she could have someone to prove wrong. The teacher gives her a dubious look and explains that times have changed and she has lots of opportunities to accomplish whatever she sets her mind to. Riri then glares at her silently for like three panels until the teacher finally says in exasperation, "Fine, someone like you will never be, uh, Tony Stark! Happy?!" And that's how Riri determined her life goal, by demanding that her teacher set some arbitrary limits on what she can't do purely to motivate herself to break them. Frankly, I think Riri is probably a sociopath, based on that exposure.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jul 21, 2017 0:02:20 GMT
lol you don't think the Time Lords is a patriarchal construct with a nomenclature that is intentionally invoking oppressive white Anglo-Saxxon feudalism? The word "doctor" is also derived from its historical usage as a title in European (read: white) academic institutions. The entire show is founded on white nationalist subtext. Well, yeah, obviously the toxic and problematic implications of these concepts are the fault of whitness and the patriarchy, even the more subtle effects can always be traced back to internalized racism, misogyny, homophobia, and general deplorableness, but the thing is, you can win it all back by using the power of intersectional representation!
It's a very crude and, frankly, very "white" mindset to frame this struggle in terms of "winning" and "power." Our revolution against oppression is not a struggle that has an end, Laughing ___. It is constant. Evolving. Today, a female Doctor Who; tomorrow the castration of every male body with skin lighter than the first Andromeda character preset. And then we'll go from there. It is an inevitable and entirely reasonable escalation. Anyone who says otherwise or calls it a reactionary, harebrained slippery slope fallacy of the highest order just doesn't have the forethought to see what we see.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jul 21, 2017 0:03:09 GMT
So first you were upset about characters being females, now youre upset and resorting to troll posts because you didnt win the discussion??? Ok then HAHAHAHAHA she thinks we're the same person! :') Which one of you is more insulted?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 0:08:05 GMT
So first you were upset about characters being females, now youre upset and resorting to troll posts because you didnt win the discussion??? Ok then HAHAHAHAHA she thinks we're the same person! :') 2Tired4This Sorry! In my defense, you decided to make your name like his for some reason, and I couldnt tell the difference I genuinely wonder whether people are actually aware that only an actor for a tv show has changed which has happened many times before, or whether their obsessions will keep making them look stupid BUT DON'T YOU REALIZE HOW BIG OF A DEAL THIS IS? EVEN YOUR PROPHET ANITA THINKS SO! ... I really have no idea what youre talking about Heres some music just because I want it to return to doctor who
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jul 21, 2017 0:29:59 GMT
Okay, 1. It wasn't designed to fit an adult male. Riri's armor was custom fitted for her. Iron Man suits are a dime a dozen in the MCU. Variations happen all the time. 2. Pepper Potts has replaced Tony, in her "rescue armor." She stills dons it occasionally, and specifically donned it the first time she spoke to Riri. Then she proceeded to save Riri from attacking bad guys. Never, ever has it been implied that Riri has somehow surpassed Tony as a superhero. She's his protege, and specifically treated as someone with a lot to learn. There is really only one thing that bothers me about Riri and that's something I read in a comic someone showed me about her origin story. When she was in elementary school, her teacher asked her what she wanted to do and she said astronaut. Her teacher said "sure, you can make that happen." Riri is disappointed, saying that she was hoping her teacher would say 'Someone like you couldn't do that' like the first black female astronaut's teacher so she could have someone to prove wrong. The teacher gives her a dubious look and explains that times have changed and she has lots of opportunities to accomplish whatever she sets her mind to. Riri then glares at her silently for like three panels until the teacher finally says in exasperation, "Fine, someone like you will never be, uh, Tony Stark! Happy?!" And that's how Riri determined her life goal, by demanding that her teacher set some arbitrary limits on what she can't do purely to motivate herself to break them. Frankly, I think Riri is probably a sociopath, based on that exposure. I thought that was intentional? Riri's supposed to have some narcissistic, antisocial tendencies, isn't she?
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 21, 2017 0:41:45 GMT
There is really only one thing that bothers me about Riri and that's something I read in a comic someone showed me about her origin story. When she was in elementary school, her teacher asked her what she wanted to do and she said astronaut. Her teacher said "sure, you can make that happen." Riri is disappointed, saying that she was hoping her teacher would say 'Someone like you couldn't do that' like the first black female astronaut's teacher so she could have someone to prove wrong. The teacher gives her a dubious look and explains that times have changed and she has lots of opportunities to accomplish whatever she sets her mind to. Riri then glares at her silently for like three panels until the teacher finally says in exasperation, "Fine, someone like you will never be, uh, Tony Stark! Happy?!" And that's how Riri determined her life goal, by demanding that her teacher set some arbitrary limits on what she can't do purely to motivate herself to break them. Frankly, I think Riri is probably a sociopath, based on that exposure. I thought that was intentional? Riri's supposed to have some narcissistic, antisocial tendencies, isn't she? Could be. I'm not sure it's a good character direction. Tony's narcissistic tendencies are played for laughs usually, in her case it sounds more like she's in desperate need of some therapy and not terribly pleasant to be around. Admittedly my knowledge of her character and what she does in the comic is limited mostly to that issue.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 21, 2017 0:45:02 GMT
Another person who completely misses the point. X-23 existed long prior to Wolverine dying and already established herself as a solid and beloved character before she temporarily donned Wolverine's outfit. She was not created to replace Wolverine. She was also not created by regressives and she wasn't created solely to pander to regressive millennials. That's the difference. I couldn't have missed a point that you failed to make. If your point was that they didn't give Riri Willaims enough time to come into her own before donning the Iron Man suit, fine. Say that. Don't bring up some weaksauce nitpicks like "she has an afro" (which I pointed out isn't a practical issue), "she's black" (just like another character who had replaced Tony Stark as Iron Man), and "she's a teenager" (just like X-23 was).
Anyway, the fact is that X-23 is literally a female version of Wolverine and so I was pointing out the irony of you using that as an example of a character who isn't a female version of a male one.
Out of curiosity: would you say that Riri Williams is any more an act of pandering to "regressive millenials" than Terry McGinnis's Batman Beyond?
You're STILL missing the point. And I don't see how I can make it any more clear. Lemme give you one more clue: I don't dislike spider-woman. I don't dislike bat-girl. I don't dislike hawkgirl. I actually like X-23. I loveeeeeee Harley Quinn. Even super-girl is tolerable (I don't like the new series though). But I cringe at female Thor. I cringe at Iron Heart. Why, do you think, that is? What, do you think, is the difference? (hint: The answer is already in one of my previous posts but for some reason you decided to ignore it and pretend you still don't get my point).
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jul 21, 2017 0:51:36 GMT
I thought that was intentional? Riri's supposed to have some narcissistic, antisocial tendencies, isn't she? Could be. I'm not sure it's a good character direction. Tony's narcissistic tendencies are played for laughs usually, in her case it sounds more like she's in desperate need of some therapy and not terribly pleasant to be around. Admittedly my knowledge of her character and what she does in the comic is limited mostly to that issue. Hmm. Well I'm not sure exactly how it was presented in the issue, but your description of it actually made me more interested in her character. It's quirky. The interaction conveys a personality that constantly seeks challenge and also one that operates on whims but then commits fully to those whims. I could totally see someone like that being a genius superhero. Or supervillain. Regardless, it's a fun bit of characterization.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 21, 2017 0:58:15 GMT
Could be. I'm not sure it's a good character direction. Tony's narcissistic tendencies are played for laughs usually, in her case it sounds more like she's in desperate need of some therapy and not terribly pleasant to be around. Admittedly my knowledge of her character and what she does in the comic is limited mostly to that issue. Hmm. Well I'm not sure exactly how it was presented in the issue, but your description of it actually made me more interested in her character. It's quirky. The interaction conveys a personality that constantly seeks challenge and also one that operates on whims but then commits fully to those whims. I could totally see someone like that being a genius superhero. Or supervillain. Regardless, it's a fun bit of characterization. I can see that position. I think what really put me off was the glare though, like she seemed actively enraged that this teacher was not racially or sexually discriminating against her. She craves challenge but it came off in a rather twisted way to me.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jul 21, 2017 1:00:34 GMT
Hmm. Well I'm not sure exactly how it was presented in the issue, but your description of it actually made me more interested in her character. It's quirky. The interaction conveys a personality that constantly seeks challenge and also one that operates on whims but then commits fully to those whims. I could totally see someone like that being a genius superhero. Or supervillain. Regardless, it's a fun bit of characterization. I can see that position. I think what really put me off was the glare though, like she seemed actively enraged that this teacher was not racially or sexually discriminating against her. She craves challenge but it came off in a rather twisted way to me. Ah okay. Yeah I can see how that would be off-putting if that scene was played in a non-light-hearted way.
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Post by Gaston on Jul 21, 2017 1:02:18 GMT
Hmm. Well I'm not sure exactly how it was presented in the issue, but your description of it actually made me more interested in her character. It's quirky. The interaction conveys a personality that constantly seeks challenge and also one that operates on whims but then commits fully to those whims. I could totally see someone like that being a genius superhero. Or supervillain. Regardless, it's a fun bit of characterization. I can see that position. I think what really put me off was the glare though, like she seemed actively enraged that this teacher was not racially or sexually discriminating against her. She craves challenge but it came off in a rather twisted way to me. Oh my, a social justice character, written by an SJW, acting like a typical SJW? Oh my, what a surprise!
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jul 21, 2017 1:03:21 GMT
I thought that was intentional? Riri's supposed to have some narcissistic, antisocial tendencies, isn't she? Could be. I'm not sure it's a good character direction. Tony's narcissistic tendencies are played for laughs usually, in her case it sounds more like she's in desperate need of some therapy and not terribly pleasant to be around. Admittedly my knowledge of her character and what she does in the comic is limited mostly to that issue. Don't misunderstand me. I don't like the character or her role in the story. She's getting this Hollywood Genius treatment, where the fundamental strategy for identifying her as a genius is to give her a hard time relating to other people. Her origin is dull and like most superhero sidekicks and proteges, it's all predicated around the superhero they aspire to emulate. Which is exactly what's so funny about the tirades against her. She's the same old thing that's happened hundreds of times before in comics. She's a hokey, miniature, female version of an existing hero with a plucky, arrogant attitude. The only difference here is that it's depicted more as a character flaw than it often is at the outset. As with so many things, the people who are looking at this through the social justice lens and the people who outraged by the very term "social justice" have the same general solution to the problem: Stop making distaff mini-whoevers and start making interesting, new, kickass heroes to diversify the cast. And as usual, neither "side" is willing to realize that they're yelling at each other for wanting the same exact thing, and how similar they actually are to one another. The reason the comics creators aren't really listening to one isn't because they're pandering to the other, it's because they're ignoring both in favor of taking advantage of an existing readership.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 1:19:12 GMT
DR? MORE LIKE NURSE WHO ROFL So first you were upset about characters being females, now youre upset and resorting to troll posts because you didnt win the discussion??? Ok then I'm upset about previously male characters turning female if that's unreasonable. I just want an original female character that doesn't take over male characters...
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jul 21, 2017 1:21:23 GMT
You're STILL missing the point. And I don't see how I can make it any more clear. Lemme give you one more clue: I don't dislike spider-woman. I don't dislike bat-girl. I don't dislike hawkgirl. I actually like X-23. I loveeeeeee Harley Quinn. Even super-girl is tolerable (I don't like the new series though). But I cringe at female Thor. I cringe at Iron Heart. Why, do you think, that is? What, do you think, is the difference? (hint: The answer is already in one of my previous posts but for some reason you decided to ignore it and pretend you still don't get my point). I'm legitimately not sure. The only thing I can think of is the "replacement goldfish" complaint. That was the reason I asked the question about Terry McGinnis (a question you then proceeded to ignore), since that was a younger character specifically created to replace Bruce Wayne as Batman.
But then that wouldn't explain your dislike for female Thor, since she isn't a character that was created to replace Thor. She had already been a character long before taking up the mantle as Thor.
It also wouldn't explain your affinity for X-23, who was outright stated by her creator to be "his attempt to make a Wolverine to 'connect more to the younger kids'". That's literally why she was written. To pander to millennials.
mfw
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Post by The Hype Himself on Jul 21, 2017 1:24:48 GMT
I couldn't have missed a point that you failed to make. If your point was that they didn't give Riri Willaims enough time to come into her own before donning the Iron Man suit, fine. Say that. Don't bring up some weaksauce nitpicks like "she has an afro" (which I pointed out isn't a practical issue), "she's black" (just like another character who had replaced Tony Stark as Iron Man), and "she's a teenager" (just like X-23 was).
Anyway, the fact is that X-23 is literally a female version of Wolverine and so I was pointing out the irony of you using that as an example of a character who isn't a female version of a male one.
Out of curiosity: would you say that Riri Williams is any more an act of pandering to "regressive millenials" than Terry McGinnis's Batman Beyond?
You're STILL missing the point. And I don't see how I can make it any more clear. Lemme give you one more clue: I don't dislike spider-woman. I don't dislike bat-girl. I don't dislike hawkgirl. I actually like X-23. I loveeeeeee Harley Quinn. Even super-girl is tolerable (I don't like the new series though). But I cringe at female Thor. I cringe at Iron Heart. Why, do you think, that is? What, do you think, is the difference? (hint: The answer is already in one of my previous posts but for some reason you decided to ignore it and pretend you still don't get my point). Because you don't like how a traditionally masculine entity's role has been claimed by a woman?
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Post by Gaston on Jul 21, 2017 1:30:13 GMT
You're STILL missing the point. And I don't see how I can make it any more clear. Lemme give you one more clue: I don't dislike spider-woman. I don't dislike bat-girl. I don't dislike hawkgirl. I actually like X-23. I loveeeeeee Harley Quinn. Even super-girl is tolerable (I don't like the new series though). But I cringe at female Thor. I cringe at Iron Heart. Why, do you think, that is? What, do you think, is the difference? (hint: The answer is already in one of my previous posts but for some reason you decided to ignore it and pretend you still don't get my point). I'm legitimately not sure. The only thing I can think of is the "replacement goldfish" complaint. That was the reason I asked the question about Terry McGinnis (a question you then proceeded to ignore), since that was a younger character specifically created to replace Bruce Wayne as Batman.
But then that wouldn't explain your dislike for female Thor, since she isn't a character that was created to replace Thor. She had already been a character long before taking up the mantle as Thor.
It also wouldn't explain your affinity for X-23, who was outright stated by her creator to be "his attempt to make a Wolverine to 'connect more to the younger kids'". That's literally why she was written. To pander to millennials.
mfw
So you're either just slow in the head then or pretending to be slow in the head. Well, considering you're acting like you somehow "got me" and "won" while really all you did is ask the same questions I already answered and play dumb when I call you out on it, it's likely a bit of both. Okay. Carry on. For the record, I haven't read or seen Terry McGinnis's Batman stuff so I can't answer any questions about that, have to ask someone who has read it, like my mate Draining Dragon .
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jul 21, 2017 1:43:31 GMT
What a great way to say nothing and pretend you said something.
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Post by Lorn on Jul 21, 2017 1:50:55 GMT
What a great way to say nothing and pretend you said something. What can I say, you're a great teacher...
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Post by The Hype Himself on Jul 21, 2017 1:51:59 GMT
What a great way to say nothing and pretend you said something. What can I say, you're a great teacher... Sock puppet rules!
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Post by Lorn on Jul 21, 2017 2:25:33 GMT
What can I say, you're a great teacher... Sock puppet rules! There's that term again, I'm not sure you know what it means...
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Post by The Hype Himself on Jul 21, 2017 2:35:32 GMT
There's that term again, I'm not sure you know what it means... Most assuredly!
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Post by Lorn on Jul 21, 2017 2:39:17 GMT
There's that term again, I'm not sure you know what it means... Most assuredly!
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Post by The Hype Himself on Jul 21, 2017 3:32:26 GMT
Ok, that's cute enough, you get a like.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 21, 2017 4:09:15 GMT
I'm excited about the new doctor and I'm looking forward to her adventures. I started with Jon Pertwee who was 'my' Doctor. This keeps things fresh and the individual has great acting credentials, so I'm all for it.
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