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Post by Toyish Batphone on Mar 4, 2017 5:33:10 GMT
Hello all,
I have a few things that I would like to share regarding my criticism, skepticism and misgivings on the game so far.
1) The lack of fleshed out introduction. From the First 13 Minutes of Mass Effect Andromeda by IGN, all we see is the Arks setting off to Andromeda and that's it - The game starts. There is no other exposition or introduction. Contrast this to the introduction in Fallout 4. In Fallout 4, the player gets to experience Sole Survivor's live prior to the war and the nukes dropping. This is important because it gives the player some exposition and more importantly, some reason to emotionally care about the fact that their spouse dies and their son gets taken. By contrast, Mass Effect Andromeda starts out so abruptly that I am quite frankly, not surprised that the IGN staff who played the first 13 minutes did not care about Ryder's twin. I mean, why should they ? The game does not give them a emotional reason to care about them. To a new player, its just "Hey there, this is your twin sister" and that's it. No flashbacks or introduction about interacting with your sibling positively. The same goes for the father, Alec Ryder. The game just throws you in and you meet this aloof high standards man who the game tells you is your father. Look at how the Sole Survivor gets to somewhat interact with their spouse and Shaun for a short time - At least an emotional exposition is provided to give a reason to care about them.
2) The lack of coherent reason to visit Andromeda. All we are given is that "Its a new beginning, a new adventure, etc". However, this flies in the face of established Mass Effect lore that states that the vast majority of Milky Way galaxy remains unexplored. I for one find Pelessaria's statement that Milky Way exploration is "so yesterday" to make no sense at all. Of course, we the player know why we are going to Andromeda - Because Bioware's Mass Effect 3's endings. I hope that as the story progresses, we get to learn that the Andromeda Initiative is merely a cover to smuggle people out of Milky Way before the Reapers arrive and that the whole "Exploration and adventure" shtick is just a cover. Otherwise, the entire Andromeda Initiative makes little sense.
3) The role of a Pathfinder.So far in the cinematic trailers, Pathfinders are supposed to find a golden world and fight for their species' gaining a homeworld in Andromeda. So why is it that we, the Human Pathfinder, are going around helping Krogans on a barren land ? How does that help us find a golden world ? Or is the Pathfinder's role to help out with settlement building, like the Sole Survivor in Fallout 4 (inb4 Liam telling us that we have a settlement that needs out help) ? Why are we, the Human Pathfinder, releasing Salarian Scientists out of stasis ? Isn't that the Salarian Pathfinder's job ? With just a few weeks before release, we still don't have a clear idea of what our protagonist is supposed to be doing. Contrast this to the Original Trilogy, where we had very clear directives. In Mass Effect 1, the goal is to stop Saren and the Geth. In Mass Effect 2, the goal is to stop the Collectors and deal with their base of operations. In Mass Effect 3, the goal is to stop the Reapers and retake Earth. Or is this another Dragon Age Inquisition where somehow, all the other Arks are in trouble and all the other Pathfinders are dead, leaving us conveniently there to assume command, just like how we conveniently obtained the Mark ?
4) The Nexus space station. Why is it there ? Why can't we just build bigger Arks and place all the people on the Nexus in the Arks ? Isn't that a better and a safer strategy ? I mean putting that many scientists, traders and military personnel in one location that might get destroyed or in the game's case, low on power, is quite absurd, no ? I know that the Nexus is supposed to be Citadel 2.0 but I fail to see why we need the Citadel if we are only going to explore a single cluster.
5) Exploration. From the information we have received, we are going to many diverse and dangerous places. If so, then why do we need to have the Nomad ? Why not have the M-44 Hammerhead instead ? Is it not better to be able to hover over potentially dangerous terrain instead of driving over them ? Furthermore, based on the recent video on exploration, I cannot for the life of me comprehend why a scout rover / buggy is unable to handle heat hazards. I can understand organics not being able to handle high temperatures, especially in suits with no built in ventilation but buggies and rovers built for interstellar exploration are supposed to be tough, not fail at 50 degree celsius. Additionally, how is a forward base able to protect against radiation and heat when a vehicle that is essentially a futuristic moon buggy can't? Space magic ?
6) The animations. There's no need to beat around the bush - The animation is not up to what is expected from a video game these days. Yes, many point to Mass Effect 2's animation quirks but Mass Effect 2 was released quite a while back. Technology, video game pricing and expectations has likewise increased - It is current year, after all. I for one hope that Ryder does not like the Joker forever.
7) The violence towards Milky Way inhabitants. From my understanding, we only brought around 20000 Humans, 20000 Turians, 20000 Salarians and 20000 Asari each with the rest coming in at hundreds or thousands or none. 20,000 is the size of a small town. That means every one is precious - You can't afford to kill others unless there is a guaranteed way to ensure species propagation and species survival. I don't recall seeing children on the Arks or the Nexus. I also do not recall seeing an Interstellar Plan B-style backup plan in place. For those unfamiliar with what I am talking about, the Plan B in the movie Interstellar was to start off a new mankind colony on whichever planet they find suitable for habitation using the frozen embryos they were carrying and forget about Earth. To date, there are no mention of storing frozen embryos on the Arks or the Nexus. There should be non-lethal options to deal with rogue Milky Way people in Andromeda.
8) Pelessaria. From the information we have, she seems to be Sera 2.0 - Despite that fact that Sera is essentially a marmite character. First off, she mentions that "Kallo won't land" instead of "Kallo can't land". If Kallo will not land (not cannot land), all PeeBee has to do is to ask Ryder, who is the Pathfinder and the commanding officer, to order Kallo to find a place to land. Later, PeeBee commits mutiny by wasting an essential item - An escape pod and by abducting the commanding officer and a colleague against their will. Last time I checked, mutiny is an offence that carries severe punishment - Regardless of where you commit it, be it in the military or a private enterprise. Moreover, we see that it is indeed possible to land on the lava planet because Kalinda does so (here is another instance where the Hammerhead or even the Kodiak is superior to the Nomad). Talk about being reckless, stupid and poor decision making. I hope we have the option of not recruiting her or to court-martial her or to even exile her or throw her out of the airlock from the Tempest for her reckless behavior.
9) Multiplayer. We are a few weeks from release and Bioware has decided to cancel the multiplayer Beta test. We have not been shown any proper multiplayer gameplay footage either. As someone who works in Quality Assurance, when you cancel public beta testing at the last minute, it only means one thing - There is something very wrong with what you plan to sell that you have to take such a drastic measure to fix it. Given that Mass Effect 3's Multiplayer was well received and underwent a public beta test, I do not think we should be optimistic about that.
I will most likely hold off until I get a full spoilery review of this game before I even consider buying it. As it stands, there are too many red flags.
Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 4, 2017 8:52:12 GMT
Concerning point 1, Bio's been doing their intros this way since forever, NWN excepted. At some point you gotta just go with the house style if you're not prepared to give up on the company.
And you really shouldn't have brought up ME1 in point 3.
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bizantura
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Post by bizantura on Mar 4, 2017 10:09:16 GMT
Oh dear, hope you never préorder games. I understand "scrutinizing" every bit of info available, but reviews are best done after finishing a game. At best this is all speculation and you are criticizing speculation and present it as factual.
I have my reserves too in small aspects of the game but if you are this wary I agree fully waiting on buying this game.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 4, 2017 13:51:24 GMT
Some, if not most of these are straight from Smudboys Andromeda videos, so thanks for bringing them here, as your "personal" concerns.
That guy nitpicks eveything to death tough. I wonder how he can ever enjoy any game, or a movie for that matter without this constant, tiring analyzing and finding faults at everything.
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Post by sil on Mar 4, 2017 14:09:02 GMT
My personal worries are that staples of Mass Effect are gone, and as such, I'm worrying over whether it will -feel- like Mass Effect anymore. Mass Relays are gone, because the Reapers don't seem to have traveled to Andromeda, so its going to be odd never seeing that. The other thing, is that only 5 of Milky Way races have been confirmed as being ingame, leaving out Quarians, Geth, Elcor, Hanar, Volus, Batarians, Vorcha, Drell, and Rachni. My worry is that with all of those gone, it won't feel quite right, but my worry is more about the future of the series. If they stay in Andromeda and don't go back to the Milky Way, then those races are gone for good, as they can't bring them back in later instalments without referencing the ME3 decisions and endings.
That's what worries me.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 4, 2017 15:38:35 GMT
I completely agree. Regardless I'm excited to play it and roleplay but I'm just going in with somewhat muted expectations knowing it'll have the same issues as DA:I did due to poor story-framework vs game-design.
Like DA:I we're a "guy who does everything for everyone". They listed their wanted game objectives and forced all those assigments into one contrived title and the result is you'll become a Mary Sue just like in Inquisition. Not only is the Pathfinder responsible for seeking out golden worlds and explore for settlements, but also a combatant, diplomat, Tech+Biotic+Soldier fighter and he's also going to save the world due to whatever the Archon plotline turns out to be. He'll also settle conflicts between races outside of his responsibility as human pathfinder. It's too much. It shows both how unfocused the game-design is, going between the tired Far Cry/Skyrim Open World game tropes, a traditional BioWare RPG and action-based shooter.
And this is where again I'll compare it to KoA. That game was also about cramming in all possible playstyles and new flashy mechanics left and right and letting you choose so freely between it that you were barely even making choices as much as you're just having a buffet.
EDIT: Yeah, there's a bit of confirmation bias here as I have seen Smuddy voice some of the same criticisms. Some of them I find inarguable, but some like the preference for storing more races in one ship is entirely debatable IMO and despite his rationale I never quite saw anything but nitpicking and "I would've done this instead!" in that.
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Toyish Batphone
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Mar 4, 2017 16:59:05 GMT
Some, if not most of these are straight from Smudboys Andromeda videos, so thanks for bringing them here, as your "personal" concerns. That guy nitpicks eveything to death tough. I wonder how he can ever enjoy any game, or a movie for that matter without this constant, tiring analyzing and finding faults at everything. I'm not Smudboy because I doubt this Smudboy person is an Asian Indian living in Southeast Asia. Thanks for informing me of this guy, I will go and look him up later.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 4, 2017 17:06:45 GMT
Well, at least there goes the confirmation bias argument. People can actually think for themselves, see?
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Post by armass81 on Mar 4, 2017 17:15:33 GMT
Some, if not most of these are straight from Smudboys Andromeda videos, so thanks for bringing them here, as your "personal" concerns. That guy nitpicks eveything to death tough. I wonder how he can ever enjoy any game, or a movie for that matter without this constant, tiring analyzing and finding faults at everything. I'm not Smudboy because I doubt this Smudboy person is an Asian Indian living in Southeast Asia. Thanks for informing me of this guy, I will go and look him up later. I never implied you are him, just that ur arguments sounded so similar it was like you watched some of his videos. If not I apoligize. Enjoy his channel. Its a kind of a echo chamber tough imo.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 4, 2017 17:24:26 GMT
Of all the things that regard criticism, I don't find Smudboy's content to be like an echochamber whatsoever. His opinions are usually much more in-depth and critical than the average skeptic you'll find because he has some persecution complex about everything he gets his hands on, and he's a perfectionist like me, but unlike me he was born with a way higher IQ or something.
If you want an echochamber, check out the NeoGAF threads for all things Mass Effect. Even when the animations finally look decent or passable they still go "Hahahaha, the animations are SO awful in this game." They're relentless.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 4, 2017 17:44:32 GMT
He does have some valid criticism, ive watched his ME2 videos for instance and agree on multiple points, even if other people usually scoff at it cause you know "ME2 is so perfect a game". But seriously watching him speak with that monotone voice, analyzing all the littlest of things, gets tiring and depressing.
His commentary box tough, that kinda feels like an echo chamber to me, all the spiteful and hateful comments there. damn.
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Post by Deana on Mar 4, 2017 19:18:42 GMT
I actually agree with #1. It did feel super abrupt with no context, but at the same time I know that after I perfect my character and start up the game I'm not going to care. I'm just going to move joyously onward into Andromeda!
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Post by kingjuly on Mar 4, 2017 19:18:46 GMT
1: The 'intro' for the game is the entire 13 minute section of the game. It begins with Alec making a speech about how every great moment in Humanities history was initially defined by a dream (cliche but also kinda nice). He then continues by explaining (probably not the best word given that is isn't a long fleshed out explanation) that the mission is one of both exploration and colonisation (his words were 'discovery' and 'a new start'). Then we get a text crawl akin to the prior games that explains that while some are enjoying the freedom and challenges of exploring the milky way, others seek out more distant stars. Andromeda. It also mentions that it's a one-way trip. These people will not be returning. By telling me that there was, and I quote, 'no exposition or introduction' you're basically telling me that you either ignored the entire first 2-3 minutes or that you had it on mute. They gave plenty of introduction to the basic principle of this journey. They wouldn't risk spilling more because it could very well be a big plot point and/or something they want the player to find out in game. They gave enough information so that you wouldn't begin in the dark. 2: Lack of coherent reason? Exploration and colonisation. Both of those are very much coherent reasons to visit a new galaxy on their own. Again, its possible there's something more to the program outside of those two reasons but that doesn't mean those reasons are not coherent. Exploration was the sole reason for humanity making the leap into space after all. Colonisation would surely become an increasingly important reason when resources or space on earth began to dwindle. Either reason on its own is good enough for a program such as this to exist but the Andromeda Initiative brings both of those together in order to bring people of both mindsets along. People who want the thrill of exploring a new galaxy and those who simply want to start again somewhere far away from the milky way. (Again though, its totally possible that there is more to it than what they told the people on the expedition) 3: The Pathfinders job is to scout Andromeda for viable habitats for settlement. This includes both exploring the planet, contacting local species and solving issues that could be problematic to colonisation efforts. One would assume that, since all Pathfinders are still a part of the Andromeda Initiative, they would be inclined to assist each other in their endeavours. You ask why we would help solve the Krogans problems? They already provided one...planet habitability. By helping the locals we ensure that our own colonists will be safer to colonise the planet. Even if its not our own colonists we're helping, we're at least furthering the AnIn by assisting the other Pathfinders. Why are we awakening Salarians from cryo? Again, because we're all apart of the same Initiative. You seem to be forgetting that all these species are apart of a single Initiative that has a single leader in charge of colonisation efforts. 4: The Nexus acts as the base of operations for the Andromeda Initiative, it acts as a diplomatic hub in case of contact with local species and it acts as temporary housing since colonisation isn't instant. They give ALL of this information if you bother to watch the Andromeda Initiative briefings. They also mention that each of the 4 arks would connect (physically) with the NExus upon arrival to expand upon the space and power reserves of the station. There are 4 Arks each housing a single species (though I think the Turians brought along the Krogan too ? Im not sure yet) Humans, Salarians, Turians and Asari. Each has roughly 20 000 people. The Nexus itself ALSO houses 20,000 people in cryo. That all comes to 100 000 colonists. Id say they gave plenty of reason for the Nexus to exist. 5: We wouldn't colonise a planet where the very ground was hazardous to touch, so of course we'd bring a vehicle suited to ground we can actually walk on since its designed to explore those very planets. Also we're not bringing an armed vehicles because the PAthfinder team also has to negotiate with other species. We don't want to look threatening when we're technically invading someone elses galaxy. As for lack of super advanced life support, ALL life support systems have a power source. One would imagine the power source would be strained if we enter a zone with a serious hazard. The more strain on the system, the more strain on the energy source. Its only a small buggy, its not a star ship. It makes sense that it wouldn't be infinite. Keep in mind that we can upgrade the life support systems on the Nomad. 6: I'll agree, they aren't top notch but they're an improvement over the past games. Thats all I can really expect them to do so Im not too bothered. To each their own. 7: It sucks, yes, but sometimes violence is the answer. When the choice is your life or the other persons life...you're gonna choose your life. Luckily we're not going to go around murdering literally every human that came with us to Andromeda. Remember that they will explain why some people are pricks when we get the game. 8: Why is this scepticism? All Im hearing is someone annoyed at a character which you have every right to do. You dont have to like everyone 9: They already announced they would show a multiplayer video soon. They also said they cancelled it due to extensive testing with the game testers program on origin. Im inclined to believe them though I do agree it sucks we won't get an open test. That being said, remember that Multiplayer will be available for the early access thing on origin. That should serve as a good enough test. Anyway, while I appreciate your concerns I don't really agree with most of your point. I'll concede the animation points but that's about it.
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chawk84
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Post by chawk84 on Mar 4, 2017 21:14:55 GMT
1: The 'intro' for the game is the entire 13 minute section of the game. It begins with Alec making a speech about how every great moment in Humanities history was initially defined by a dream (cliche but also kinda nice). He then continues by explaining (probably not the best word given that is isn't a long fleshed out explanation) that the mission is one of both exploration and colonisation (his words were 'discovery' and 'a new start'). Then we get a text crawl akin to the prior games that explains that while some are enjoying the freedom and challenges of exploring the milky way, others seek out more distant stars. Andromeda. It also mentions that it's a one-way trip. These people will not be returning. By telling me that there was, and I quote, 'no exposition or introduction' you're basically telling me that you either ignored the entire first 2-3 minutes or that you had it on mute. They gave plenty of introduction to the basic principle of this journey. They wouldn't risk spilling more because it could very well be a big plot point and/or something they want the player to find out in game. They gave enough information so that you wouldn't begin in the dark. 2: Lack of coherent reason? Exploration and colonisation. Both of those are very much coherent reasons to visit a new galaxy on their own. Again, its possible there's something more to the program outside of those two reasons but that doesn't mean those reasons are not coherent. Exploration was the sole reason for humanity making the leap into space after all. Colonisation would surely become an increasingly important reason when resources or space on earth began to dwindle. Either reason on its own is good enough for a program such as this to exist but the Andromeda Initiative brings both of those together in order to bring people of both mindsets along. People who want the thrill of exploring a new galaxy and those who simply want to start again somewhere far away from the milky way. (Again though, its totally possible that there is more to it than what they told the people on the expedition) 3: The Pathfinders job is to scout Andromeda for viable habitats for settlement. This includes both exploring the planet, contacting local species and solving issues that could be problematic to colonisation efforts. One would assume that, since all Pathfinders are still a part of the Andromeda Initiative, they would be inclined to assist each other in their endeavours. You ask why we would help solve the Krogans problems? They already provided one...planet habitability. By helping the locals we ensure that our own colonists will be safer to colonise the planet. Even if its not our own colonists we're helping, we're at least furthering the AnIn by assisting the other Pathfinders. Why are we awakening Salarians from cryo? Again, because we're all apart of the same Initiative. You seem to be forgetting that all these species are apart of a single Initiative that has a single leader in charge of colonisation efforts. 4: The Nexus acts as the base of operations for the Andromeda Initiative, it acts as a diplomatic hub in case of contact with local species and it acts as temporary housing since colonisation isn't instant. They give ALL of this information if you bother to watch the Andromeda Initiative briefings. They also mention that each of the 4 arks would connect (physically) with the NExus upon arrival to expand upon the space and power reserves of the station. There are 4 Arks each housing a single species (though I think the Turians brought along the Krogan too ? Im not sure yet) Humans, Salarians, Turians and Asari. Each has roughly 20 000 people. The Nexus itself ALSO houses 20,000 people in cryo. That all comes to 100 000 colonists. Id say they gave plenty of reason for the Nexus to exist. 5: We wouldn't colonise a planet where the very ground was hazardous to touch, so of course we'd bring a vehicle suited to ground we can actually walk on since its designed to explore those very planets. Also we're not bringing an armed vehicles because the PAthfinder team also has to negotiate with other species. We don't want to look threatening when we're technically invading someone elses galaxy. As for lack of super advanced life support, ALL life support systems have a power source. One would imagine the power source would be strained if we enter a zone with a serious hazard. The more strain on the system, the more strain on the energy source. Its only a small buggy, its not a star ship. It makes sense that it wouldn't be infinite. Keep in mind that we can upgrade the life support systems on the Nomad. 6: I'll agree, they aren't top notch but they're an improvement over the past games. Thats all I can really expect them to do so Im not too bothered. To each their own. 7: It sucks, yes, but sometimes violence is the answer. When the choice is your life or the other persons life...you're gonna choose your life. Luckily we're not going to go around murdering literally every human that came with us to Andromeda. Remember that they will explain why some people are pricks when we get the game. 8: Why is this scepticism? All Im hearing is someone annoyed at a character which you have every right to do. You dont have to like everyone 9: They already announced they would show a multiplayer video soon. They also said they cancelled it due to extensive testing with the game testers program on origin. Im inclined to believe them though I do agree it sucks we won't get an open test. That being said, remember that Multiplayer will be available for the early access thing on origin. That should serve as a good enough test. Anyway, while I appreciate your concerns I don't really agree with most of your point. I'll concede the animation points but that's about it. Well said. Those points of skepticism are ridiculous in my opinion. This game will be the smoothest, fastest, and best looking Mass Effect game yet and that is a FACT. It looks next gen...and it FEELS like a mass effect game
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Post by cratto on Mar 4, 2017 21:30:23 GMT
1. The first Mass Effect was very similar (ME2 has quite a long prologue and its only really towards the end that you're picking up on the building blocks of the story). The game's version of the crawl, bit of discussion about Shepherd as a Spectre and then straight into the game. We only saw a snippet of the prologue, I'd imagine it'll be about 45-60mins in length and that will expand on the background. I suspect they may also have been a bit of editing and avoiding certain triggers at the start to limit spoilers.
2. The reasoning behind the Andromeda Initiative is quite simple: the Reapers. The game is set between the second and third games. The leadership of Humanity and Turians have accepted the existence of the Reapers before the start of ME3, would make sense that the other big two (Salarian and Asari) would come to a similar conclusion. But this is not widely known across the Galaxy. It's 13 minutes - if this all came out in the first few minutes you'd be screaming at the quality of the writing. It's a long game!
3. I think you get hints of this in the 13 minutes. Each of the four arks has an assigned planet and orders if they cannot contact any other arks. In 600 years time things change. Having a pathfinder (or scouting team) would make sense if something went wrong or they wanted to search for any other of the Milky Way travellers.
4. Not all eggs in one basket. If the Nexus or any of the Arks is destroyed or badly damaged you loose 20000 lives not all 100000.
5. Good point. Fan service is probably the answer and balance of the game.
6. Good point. Will reserve judgement to I see the final game with the patch (which the reviewers didn't have). Bioware do have problems with this.
7. There may be options to peacefully resolve some situations but sadly humanity (and the Krogan) are a bloodthirsty race and I doubt 600 in stasis will change that.
8. I worry about Peebee too. But a lot was cut from that snippet about Ryder's reaction so I think we should wait and see on that. I think also the other ships are shuttles rather than a larger ship like the Tempest (also pilots can have the right to override / final say on safety).
9. Won't be player MP so can't really comment.
Overall, we've only seen snippets (often doctored ones) and it's a long game - so I think some of this may be answered as you play. Well I hope so at least!
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Post by midnightwolf on Mar 4, 2017 22:39:55 GMT
I admitt that I'm a little bothered about the Nomad. But that's to do with the fact that it doesn't have Weapon's on it. Who's bright idea was that? Let's ship off to a new Galaxy and leave our Weaponized vehicle behind? It's pretty silly if you ask me.
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Yggdrasil
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Post by Yggdrasil on Mar 5, 2017 22:58:42 GMT
I personally don't share any of the concerns you've outlined.
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SwobyJ
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 6, 2017 0:58:56 GMT
1)Its just trying to be the most like ME1's intro, where you just meet a few people then touchdown on Eden Prime. You'll get your longer convos after. ME2 and ME3 tried similarly, but ME2 only was kinda good for that and ME3 was pretty poor and IMO really needed that 'trial' scene they cut out. Also I don't think Bioware 'expected' us to care about the sibling. It is an option for further story content and a choice more of priorities during an emergency, not necessarily an expression of high care of callousness like some people are treating it. Players can easily defend such a route as 'bad stuff is happening, get to Pathfinder asap'.
2)I hope there's something else too. And I hope that Bioware really doesn't hit characters with the stupid stick beforehand, and that even Peebee's words are just a misdirection for pre-release marketing and a deflection by her (for some reason) in the game itself. I have no problem with WOOO ARK TRIP! if there is a rather complex and honestly super intriguing story beyond how it happens and what it means.
3)The golden worlds are not as expected and we have arrived to a situation in some degree of disarray. So we're doing the closest we can do to the Pathfinder's intended role - facilitate the colonization of the worlds. I don't really care about half of what you said here, but I do share concerns that we'll be given too much of Chosen One status that it is just silly. There *should* be other Pathfinders doing things, even useful numerous things! There *should* be at least a story of how even if things are really bad now, there were valuable efforts and works of others to make this Initiative successful. Putting it all on one's shoulders, especially this time a 20-something son of a N7, is pretty silly IMO. Their successes can already be portrayed as the story goes on, there's no need to 'nerf' everyone else so much. And I didn't even mind that Inquisitor's situation for most part.
4)I think we are to consider the Nexus to be a more Milky Way developed Citadel, but also the Arks as the Citadel Arms in that they provide something of safety (even if not as much protection as the arms). You can't hold so many people in Arks, and they're also more available to be shot, and the intention is to colonize several planets ASAP and lacking a hub for that is understandably inadequate. Nexus can be that hub. I'm good with that. The Arks for all we know can be a capitulation to species concerns about having something of their own (or at least the founder and Council species). And notice the bit about the Nexus not being constructed fully while the Arks are? I think the gist is that while investors will invest in this, they won't *fully* commit. I can easily consider that the cost of say 4 larger and Nexus-featured Arks would be even astronomically higher than to make 4 smaller Arks with a very incomplete Nexus. By colonizing several locations asap and building a supply line, then the Nexus can be completed, the Arks transitioned into batteries (to put it simply), and for all we know, the Nexus secretly intended for a greater purpose.
5)Yes I don't love the Nomad concept so far. However, there might be good enough lore about how forward bases protect us, and there may be upgrades for the Nomad that have similar effects. Wait And See?
6)Yes this is a 2017 game (aka mid-2010s) with early-2010s animations and imperfect polish from what we've seen. Shucks. Its always something I kinda expect from Bioware, but it is showcased rather clearly. MEA will be the last game I remotely forgive this. After this, for ME, DA, NewIP maybe, they either better have Frostbite shaped up, or moved to a better engine for animations (or whatever similar comments in regards to animation teams, resource allocation, whatever). That said, I have never considered it terrible. Like, highly impeding my possible enjoyment terrible. But it isn't good enough.
7)There should be non-lethal, but there often won't be. The question is more whether Bioware will actually let us settle things peacefully sometimes, to reflect your concern, and whether there is a good enough reason for us to come into conflict. We know this is an action shooter. It will always be an action shooter. But we need to believe this conflict and not internally freak the hell out at so much death. Like... the single player is one thing, but imagine multi player?!? Some Wait and See for this, but I too will go WTF at Ryder himself killing up to thousands of Milky Way people. Of course this will be mitigated by tackling Remnant entities and perhaps having Khet as the most common encounter.
8)I think we'll have to recruit and keep everyone, honestly. However, to compensate, I dearly hope Bioware has it all covered when it comes to our treatment of squadmates. Maybe all 6 people are just sooo useful for something we neeed to do. Okay, maybe Peebee is soooo useful for Remnant thingsss. Okay. Let us ostracize her, chastise her, and keep her out of our business in almost all cases. Hell, if Bioware really valued RP, give us even (if only one or a few) positive results from that! If Bioware has ANY sense about their characters, they'd understand why exactly an attitude like Peebee's can be repulsive (it isn't for me, but I GET IT). Even DAI let us kick Sera out, ignore her, etc. If we're going to keep being 'challenged' by Peebee, then don't keep away the opportunity to 'challenge' her back. Also screw eyebrows unless there is a very cool plan behind adding such a silly thing.
9)Yep. I don't have the best hopes for 1.0 MEA, honestly. Things feel too ...tight? Even Day 1 Patch MEA may not be good enough. I dunno. But thankfully, personally, I have school through March and April, and maybe trying to situate in a job in May, so uh... I'm completely comfortable with waiting for earlier patches. But a broken anything, Multiplayer or otherwise, could be very harmful to Bioware and very frustrating for players.
I got MEA as a December (bday and xmas) gift so its no skin off my back other than maybe that it could have been replaced by another gift haha.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 6, 2017 1:07:56 GMT
1: The 'intro' for the game is the entire 13 minute section of the game. It begins with Alec making a speech about how every great moment in Humanities history was initially defined by a dream (cliche but also kinda nice). He then continues by explaining (probably not the best word given that is isn't a long fleshed out explanation) that the mission is one of both exploration and colonisation (his words were 'discovery' and 'a new start'). Then we get a text crawl akin to the prior games that explains that while some are enjoying the freedom and challenges of exploring the milky way, others seek out more distant stars. Andromeda. It also mentions that it's a one-way trip. These people will not be returning. Just to be clear, the Initiative is completely understanding that this is a one-way trip, but this doesn't exclude another trip that goes the other way. It is simply that as far as anyone is knowing or preparing for (barring a twist), Andromeda is going to be home and it won't be returned from. However, it has already been established that while the trip is one-way, the at least longer term (whether this happens long term, or at all, or surprisingly short term) intention is to reestablish contact with the Milky Way, and with contact, obviously this will hopefully mean transportation at some point. The sooner they establish, the sooner they grow. Sooner they grow, the sooner they advance. The sooner they advance, the sooner they may discover and deploy technologies that could create a form of travel. Younger living species can be into the thrill of the trip, older living species (or really just asari) can be into the long term prospects for the Milky Way. Or its some ploy and there's always going to be a way to the Milky Way. Or its some plot and we're sekretly actually in the Milky Way! Dun dun dunnn Yeah. There is the chance that Remnant technologies are useful enough in some application to greatly shorten any travel. If there's anything to upgrade from mass relays (even if those could still be useful to build for more instant transit), it'd be making ships that work through scifi fluff like wormholes or much faster mass effecty drives or whatever. For all we know, MEA or ME5 ends with a status of having transports that could do the 600+ year trip in just decades, years, or less. Its just that such a concept would have been utterly out of bounds for existing Milky Way lore. Even the 600 years in cryostasis is at least pushing it.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 6, 2017 10:58:38 GMT
That's typical for ME. Most of game's introduction is done through entire story.
That's PB, she isn't supposed to make sense. Why 100k people are going there? Because they are crazy on different degree, this one you'll have to accept. Why AI was founded? That question may have more interesting answer if you'll look for it, at least judging by dev responses.
Yep, Pathfinder is Vanguard of their colonization. Patfinder's job isn't done until colonists can start working. If krogans might be a problem for colonization, it's up to Pathfinder to deal with it.
Nexus is safer strategy, because it houses all species in smaller quantities compared to Arks, so in case any of Arks fails it's species won't disappear. Besides it's supposed to imitate old Council hierarchy, so separate Arks won't turn on each other. It failed here though.
If you believe that devs somehow will fix animations they were doing for years in a matter of months - don't. They'll be exactly as you see them right now, if it's deal breaker for you - well, you know the answer.
Wild West wasn't high on population either, didn't stop them from killing each other on regular basis. Apparently an individual tends to place his own survival above society, it's to up to government to think about it. Who knows, maybe clone vats are already heating up. If not, there is always "ten years later..." thing, works every time.
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Post by Ieldra on Mar 6, 2017 12:52:59 GMT
Well...worldbuilding and the story's grounding in it has been going downhill since ME2, and MEA appears to be no exception. The unsatisfying rationale for the Andromeda expedition is probably just the tip of the iceberg. I can't say I'm surprised. One more thing I'm not surprised about: The connection to the MEU I had before ME3 has not reappeared so far. So if MEA fails to excite me....*shrug*.
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Draining Dragon
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You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Draining Dragon
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Draining Dragon on Mar 7, 2017 1:54:10 GMT
My personal worries are that staples of Mass Effect are gone, and as such, I'm worrying over whether it will -feel- like Mass Effect anymore. Mass Relays are gone, because the Reapers don't seem to have traveled to Andromeda, so its going to be odd never seeing that. The other thing, is that only 5 of Milky Way races have been confirmed as being ingame, leaving out Quarians, Geth, Elcor, Hanar, Volus, Batarians, Vorcha, Drell, and Rachni. My worry is that with all of those gone, it won't feel quite right, but my worry is more about the future of the series. If they stay in Andromeda and don't go back to the Milky Way, then those races are gone for good, as they can't bring them back in later instalments without referencing the ME3 decisions and endings. That's what worries me. Quarians were just confirmed, so we've got that going for us. But yeah, this is my main concern. Will it really feel like Mass Effect?
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Post by colfoley on Mar 7, 2017 5:47:29 GMT
Hello all, I have a few things that I would like to share regarding my criticism, skepticism and misgivings on the game so far. 1) The lack of fleshed out introduction. From the First 13 Minutes of Mass Effect Andromeda by IGN, all we see is the Arks setting off to Andromeda and that's it - The game starts. There is no other exposition or introduction. Contrast this to the introduction in Fallout 4. In Fallout 4, the player gets to experience Sole Survivor's live prior to the war and the nukes dropping. This is important because it gives the player some exposition and more importantly, some reason to emotionally care about the fact that their spouse dies and their son gets taken. By contrast, Mass Effect Andromeda starts out so abruptly that I am quite frankly, not surprised that the IGN staff who played the first 13 minutes did not care about Ryder's twin. I mean, why should they ? The game does not give them a emotional reason to care about them. To a new player, its just "Hey there, this is your twin sister" and that's it. No flashbacks or introduction about interacting with your sibling positively. The same goes for the father, Alec Ryder. The game just throws you in and you meet this aloof high standards man who the game tells you is your father. Look at how the Sole Survivor gets to somewhat interact with their spouse and Shaun for a short time - At least an emotional exposition is provided to give a reason to care about them. 2) The lack of coherent reason to visit Andromeda. All we are given is that "Its a new beginning, a new adventure, etc". However, this flies in the face of established Mass Effect lore that states that the vast majority of Milky Way galaxy remains unexplored. I for one find Pelessaria's statement that Milky Way exploration is "so yesterday" to make no sense at all. Of course, we the player know why we are going to Andromeda - Because Bioware's Mass Effect 3's endings. I hope that as the story progresses, we get to learn that the Andromeda Initiative is merely a cover to smuggle people out of Milky Way before the Reapers arrive and that the whole "Exploration and adventure" shtick is just a cover. Otherwise, the entire Andromeda Initiative makes little sense. 3) The role of a Pathfinder.So far in the cinematic trailers, Pathfinders are supposed to find a golden world and fight for their species' gaining a homeworld in Andromeda. So why is it that we, the Human Pathfinder, are going around helping Krogans on a barren land ? How does that help us find a golden world ? Or is the Pathfinder's role to help out with settlement building, like the Sole Survivor in Fallout 4 (inb4 Liam telling us that we have a settlement that needs out help) ? Why are we, the Human Pathfinder, releasing Salarian Scientists out of stasis ? Isn't that the Salarian Pathfinder's job ? With just a few weeks before release, we still don't have a clear idea of what our protagonist is supposed to be doing. Contrast this to the Original Trilogy, where we had very clear directives. In Mass Effect 1, the goal is to stop Saren and the Geth. In Mass Effect 2, the goal is to stop the Collectors and deal with their base of operations. In Mass Effect 3, the goal is to stop the Reapers and retake Earth. Or is this another Dragon Age Inquisition where somehow, all the other Arks are in trouble and all the other Pathfinders are dead, leaving us conveniently there to assume command, just like how we conveniently obtained the Mark ? 4) The Nexus space station. Why is it there ? Why can't we just build bigger Arks and place all the people on the Nexus in the Arks ? Isn't that a better and a safer strategy ? I mean putting that many scientists, traders and military personnel in one location that might get destroyed or in the game's case, low on power, is quite absurd, no ? I know that the Nexus is supposed to be Citadel 2.0 but I fail to see why we need the Citadel if we are only going to explore a single cluster. 5) Exploration. From the information we have received, we are going to many diverse and dangerous places. If so, then why do we need to have the Nomad ? Why not have the M-44 Hammerhead instead ? Is it not better to be able to hover over potentially dangerous terrain instead of driving over them ? Furthermore, based on the recent video on exploration, I cannot for the life of me comprehend why a scout rover / buggy is unable to handle heat hazards. I can understand organics not being able to handle high temperatures, especially in suits with no built in ventilation but buggies and rovers built for interstellar exploration are supposed to be tough, not fail at 50 degree celsius. Additionally, how is a forward base able to protect against radiation and heat when a vehicle that is essentially a futuristic moon buggy can't? Space magic ? 6) The animations. There's no need to beat around the bush - The animation is not up to what is expected from a video game these days. Yes, many point to Mass Effect 2's animation quirks but Mass Effect 2 was released quite a while back. Technology, video game pricing and expectations has likewise increased - It is current year, after all. I for one hope that Ryder does not like the Joker forever. 7) The violence towards Milky Way inhabitants. From my understanding, we only brought around 20000 Humans, 20000 Turians, 20000 Salarians and 20000 Asari each with the rest coming in at hundreds or thousands or none. 20,000 is the size of a small town. That means every one is precious - You can't afford to kill others unless there is a guaranteed way to ensure species propagation and species survival. I don't recall seeing children on the Arks or the Nexus. I also do not recall seeing an Interstellar Plan B-style backup plan in place. For those unfamiliar with what I am talking about, the Plan B in the movie Interstellar was to start off a new mankind colony on whichever planet they find suitable for habitation using the frozen embryos they were carrying and forget about Earth. To date, there are no mention of storing frozen embryos on the Arks or the Nexus. There should be non-lethal options to deal with rogue Milky Way people in Andromeda. 8) Pelessaria. From the information we have, she seems to be Sera 2.0 - Despite that fact that Sera is essentially a marmite character. First off, she mentions that "Kallo won't land" instead of "Kallo can't land". If Kallo will not land (not cannot land), all PeeBee has to do is to ask Ryder, who is the Pathfinder and the commanding officer, to order Kallo to find a place to land. Later, PeeBee commits mutiny by wasting an essential item - An escape pod and by abducting the commanding officer and a colleague against their will. Last time I checked, mutiny is an offence that carries severe punishment - Regardless of where you commit it, be it in the military or a private enterprise. Moreover, we see that it is indeed possible to land on the lava planet because Kalinda does so (here is another instance where the Hammerhead or even the Kodiak is superior to the Nomad). Talk about being reckless, stupid and poor decision making. I hope we have the option of not recruiting her or to court-martial her or to even exile her or throw her out of the airlock from the Tempest for her reckless behavior. 9) Multiplayer. We are a few weeks from release and Bioware has decided to cancel the multiplayer Beta test. We have not been shown any proper multiplayer gameplay footage either. As someone who works in Quality Assurance, when you cancel public beta testing at the last minute, it only means one thing - There is something very wrong with what you plan to sell that you have to take such a drastic measure to fix it. Given that Mass Effect 3's Multiplayer was well received and underwent a public beta test, I do not think we should be optimistic about that. I will most likely hold off until I get a full spoilery review of this game before I even consider buying it. As it stands, there are too many red flags. Thanks for reading and have a nice day. 1. A story has to start somewhere. The story in FO 4 started where it did because you had to have context on who your family was and some reason to care about them before heading out and to indeed show that you lived before the war. Star Wars started where it did because it needed to be an epic story with a sense of a continuing arc (not much of an 'introduction' in SWs and it is one of the most beloved trilogies in history) Dragon Age Inquisition started where it did because BioWare wanted you to piece together your life and events prior to recieving the mark. No real 'starting point' in a story is any less valid then any other when you get down to it (though I would have preffered to start Inquisition before the breach). Especially with Andromeda. The player does not need context nor time to spend in the MW. Especially if you played the trilogy. 2. I have a very distinct impression that the reason for the AI visiting Andromeda is secret, both in terms for narrative...spoilers...and to much of the AI itself. As for why people would join the AI with super secret reasons. I think people can have more then enough. Actually I am a bit dissapointed that Ryder's starting speech only mentioned 'new adventure, a new start' for reasons to go there are butt loads more. 3. This is also something I think the game will go into a little bit more detail on in the game itself. But I am just starting to get the feeling and the obvious parrellels between the Pathfinder Teams and SG-1. The Pathfinder team(s) is the Nexuses primary team and what they rely upon to do anything. Yes exploration is a big part of their job but then so is pacification and support. Their goal is to not only find a new home, but help make sure it is safe for the people on the Nexus/ Arks. Helping out Krogan, for instance, falls into that category as we have seen in the vids and since the Pathfinders in general are only one part of a much larger organization, we will avoid the Inquisitor having to do minor errands in the first place...which was kind of a bull shit complaint about Inquisition but that is a story for another day. 4. I think the AIs goals is to eventually explore the entire Andromeda Galaxy, in total, explore that 'thing' in the center of the Heleus Cluster, and set up a connection between the MWG and AG. the latter is where the Nexus comes in. That and being a forward command post for the entire Iniative and 'safe harbor' until they can find a viable candidate among the 7 habitats. (the 13 minute video all but confirmed this). 7. I think the problem here is that pretty much everything that happened on the Arks arrival in the AG did not match the promises that the AI said. Hence people got pissed. Of course this is a symptom of bad planning but then without a sense of conflict we would not have a story 8. Pee Bee is nothing like Sera. And Ian Frazier did mention that, if the player chooses, there can be some reprercussions to what she did in that mission though specifics we do not know.
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Post by Cirvante on Mar 7, 2017 15:22:21 GMT
4) The Nexus space station. Why is it there ? Why can't we just build bigger Arks and place all the people on the Nexus in the Arks ? Isn't that a better and a safer strategy ? I mean putting that many scientists, traders and military personnel in one location that might get destroyed or in the game's case, low on power, is quite absurd, no ? I know that the Nexus is supposed to be Citadel 2.0 but I fail to see why we need the Citadel if we are only going to explore a single cluster. Remember what the Citadel was? A massive relay. If the council races went to Ilos after the battle of the Citadel in ME1, they would have found the Protheans' mini relay. It's not too far-fetched to imagine that they'd use that technology to send a half-constructed relay to Andromeda in order to set up a means of travel that doesn't require 600+ years.
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Post by armass81 on Mar 7, 2017 16:36:08 GMT
The mobile station is also useful as a hq in some other cluster, in case they wish to, you know, expand colonization.
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