Arcian
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Arcian on Mar 22, 2017 21:35:36 GMT
I agree about the 3 powers part. With just say, 5 powers, they coulda scrapped the jack-of-all-trades multi-profile system, and we would have been left with a more meaningful build system. Not sure how they would have made it work with a controller, but the current button layout is crap anyways, so there is surely a good way. Whateva, its too late now How did they make it work for the last three Mass Effect and the first two Dragon Age games?
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Mar 22, 2017 21:42:26 GMT
This has nothing to do with politics. I just lost empathy over people going stupid and crazy over the smallest things. Mr. fumbles "I did replay it recently. I re played the MET before MEA came out in fact. You know what. I still used just 3 powers in my play time. " mr. daniel "So we can at least agree that if they did allow access to 4 or 5 active powers, it will have no impact to your game play experience. " dr. fumbles "Not really, I would still play the same because I got used to it from ME3 MP. People saying it's the end and unplayable because of it just makes me laugh. " mr. daniel "Seriously? [...]" ME: in MET you had access to more than 3 abilities. YOU, dr. fumbles, did not use the extra powers, you were fine with 3, and 3 was all you needed to enjoy the game. mr. daniels used all the powers available to him and that made his experience of the game more enjoyable for him. IF MEA introduced 4, 5, 6, 9, 100 active powers, YOU could still use 3 and it would not affect YOUR playing of the game. That is the point of the quote "So we can at least agree that if they did allow access to 4 or 5 active powers, it will have no impact on your game play experience" why? because they had 4 or 5 powers in the MET and THAT had "no impact on your game play experience" so why would it be different in MEA? I'm just posting this to clarify mr. daniels words, as I feel the point he made was missed. Have a good one. I understand what he was saying. The "not really" part meant I would be fine with 4 or 5 because it doesn't affect me. Sorry, should have clarified that.
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Post by stupidmaniac on Mar 22, 2017 22:31:47 GMT
You know how sometimes you can get so frustrated with something very minor. I am so worked up that I decided to go log back onto Bioware Social forum to complain about Andromeda, only to find out that BSN was closed down. That pissed me off even more, and I tracked down this forum just so I can get this off my chest The issues with the game is already well reported, but in my case, there are only 2 things that I really can't forgive or overlook. 1. Ugly Faces I can forgive the janky animation, because I am told animations and motion capturing are hard to do and can be expensive, so fine. I can forgive the NPCs for not looking attractive, it's their lore and story, so is Andromeda is staffed and populated by "realistic" looking individuals, fine. I can forgive the default player character for looking the way they do, because again, it's the lore, and the Ryders will have whatever DNAs they have. I cannot forgive the dumb and useless character creator. I cannot for the life me understand why the preset faces looks like offspring of Super Mutants, or why the character creator is so useless. I truly hope that Bioware was just being lazy, 'cause they are making me googling conspiracy theories having to do with some SJW people, and that's rabbit hole I wish I never crawled into. 2. 3 Active Power Limit Again, I'm not against taking away the class system, whatever the merit of that might be. I don't have a knee jerk reaction against making the class system more fluid. In fact, having different load out powers pre-saved could be kinda cool, as you can switch it up as combat progress from initial contact to full on shitstorm. But limiting the powers per load out to 3? on PC? I know that you can access the different powers via favorites as mapped to keyboard, but that's a work around to a stupid system. Imagine if you are limited to 5 powers instead for 3, wouldn't that be so much better? Not only would it open up the battle field to more power combos, it would actually make the current power swapping system more meaningful and useful in its own right, instead of a forced work around. I am not asking for perfection, I just ask that you try. You have no idea how much it makes me mad that these two minor issues are the difference between a game I really enjoy and a game that just "meh, I guess I will get buy it, I played all the previous ones." I can understand your anger, my complaints are the quicksave/manual save during priority missions and also not customizing your squads weapons or armour. To me that really limits the crafting aspect of the game. Kinda makes it too big for so little reason?
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 22, 2017 22:58:24 GMT
I can understand your anger, my complaints are the quicksave/manual save during priority missions and also not customizing your squads weapons or armour. To me that really limits the crafting aspect of the game. Kinda makes it too big for so little reason? I really wish we get to find out how decisions are made and what were the choices the developers made. The issue you mentioned is very interesting because it seems odd that they set out on purpose to create an inventory/craft system like we had ME1 while at the same time completely drop the companion item customization. People either enjoyed the streamlined/hassle free system of ME2 or the RPG system of ME1, don't recall anyone was clamoring for what we ended up with. I do have a theory with no basis on any fact: 1. They just ran out of time/cash and here you go 2. They "listened" the fans, both the people who liked having to go through every item in the inventory to to equip everyone, and everyone who hate it but feel obligated to do it because they are OCDs (this can be very tedious, having to check out which mod/weapon with slight stat improvement for every squad mate, and then deciding who gets what newest weapon, and who gets hand-me down, and what gets sold). So the compromise is that you can still customize ton of stuff (satisfying first group of fans), but only on the player avatar as to cut-down on the time spent on doing it (compromise to the second group of fans).
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Post by stupidmaniac on Mar 22, 2017 23:11:36 GMT
I can understand your anger, my complaints are the quicksave/manual save during priority missions and also not customizing your squads weapons or armour. To me that really limits the crafting aspect of the game. Kinda makes it too big for so little reason? I really wish we get to find out how decisions are made and what were the choices the developers made. The issue you mentioned is very interesting because it seems odd that they set out on purpose to create an inventory/craft system like we had ME1 while at the same time completely drop the companion item customization. People either enjoyed the streamlined/hassle free system of ME2 or the RPG system of ME1, don't recall anyone was clamoring for what we ended up with. I do have a theory with no basis on any fact: 1. They just ran out of time/cash and here you go 2. They "listened" the fans, both the people who liked having to go through every item in the inventory to to equip everyone, and everyone who hate it but feel obligated to do it because they are OCDs (this can be very tedious, having to check out which mod/weapon with slight stat improvement for every squad mate, and then deciding who gets what newest weapon, and who gets hand-me down, and what gets sold). So the compromise is that you can still customize ton of stuff (satisfying first group of fans), but only on the player avatar as to cut-down on the time spent on doing it (compromise to the second group of fans). You make a really good point about the decision process because this screams ME:1 (which is probably why I love this so much) but adds in so many different things from the other games. It's like they tried to cater towards everyone? Either way It's a head scratcher.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 22, 2017 23:26:45 GMT
My theory is they wanted one mechanic that would suit Single Player and Multiplayer, so as not to design two similar (but actually different systems).
You control your squadmates much as you control other multiplayers, i.e. not very much.
I recall a dev interview backing this up: they wanted to design one combat mechanic, not two.
I'm not adverse to it, actually quite like it, but it is different.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 23:37:09 GMT
I can understand your anger, my complaints are the quicksave/manual save during priority missions and also not customizing your squads weapons or armour. To me that really limits the crafting aspect of the game. Kinda makes it too big for so little reason? I really wish we get to find out how decisions are made and what were the choices the developers made. The issue you mentioned is very interesting because it seems odd that they set out on purpose to create an inventory/craft system like we had ME1 while at the same time completely drop the companion item customization. People either enjoyed the streamlined/hassle free system of ME2 or the RPG system of ME1, don't recall anyone was clamoring for what we ended up with. I do have a theory with no basis on any fact: 1. They just ran out of time/cash and here you go 2. They "listened" the fans, both the people who liked having to go through every item in the inventory to to equip everyone, and everyone who hate it but feel obligated to do it because they are OCDs (this can be very tedious, having to check out which mod/weapon with slight stat improvement for every squad mate, and then deciding who gets what newest weapon, and who gets hand-me down, and what gets sold). So the compromise is that you can still customize ton of stuff (satisfying first group of fans), but only on the player avatar as to cut-down on the time spent on doing it (compromise to the second group of fans). They don't want to provide armor customization for a couple of reasons: -- The "iconic" word. They want their characters to have a specific, recognizable look (including what they're wearing) - for cosplay, PR, being memorable, etc. -- Making multiple armor styles available for multiple body models involves quite a bit of mesh work, which can represent a fairly hefty investment. As for squadmate weapon customization - I believe some of the reason has to do with their individualized AI. Note that there were some fairly unique weapons in MET - like the ones you could charge before firing, the ones that fired explosives, etc., and programming squaddie AI to use them judiciously is a fairly complex proposition. Don't yet know the full range of mods/customization available in MEA, but my impression is that the devs did not want to add that complexity to squadmate AI, and they felt it was easier to fine-tune the AI if the exact weapon characteristics were known in advance.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 22, 2017 23:41:15 GMT
My theory is they wanted one mechanic that would suit Single Player and Multiplayer, so as not to design two similar (but actually different systems). You control your squadmates much as you control other multiplayers, i.e. not very much. I recall a dev interview backing this up: they wanted to design one combat mechanic, not two. I'm not adverse to it, actually quite like it, but it is different. explains how the squads are controlled, and that probably explains the 3 power limit system too.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 22, 2017 23:41:29 GMT
It would have been easy enough to ask how much time the DAI devs put into the companion armor customization feature. Maybe they found that it wasn't worth it?
But yeah, DA2-plus-crafting isn't an intuitively obvious design approach.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 22, 2017 23:53:55 GMT
I really wish we get to find out how decisions are made and what were the choices the developers made. The issue you mentioned is very interesting because it seems odd that they set out on purpose to create an inventory/craft system like we had ME1 while at the same time completely drop the companion item customization. People either enjoyed the streamlined/hassle free system of ME2 or the RPG system of ME1, don't recall anyone was clamoring for what we ended up with. I do have a theory with no basis on any fact: 1. They just ran out of time/cash and here you go 2. They "listened" the fans, both the people who liked having to go through every item in the inventory to to equip everyone, and everyone who hate it but feel obligated to do it because they are OCDs (this can be very tedious, having to check out which mod/weapon with slight stat improvement for every squad mate, and then deciding who gets what newest weapon, and who gets hand-me down, and what gets sold). So the compromise is that you can still customize ton of stuff (satisfying first group of fans), but only on the player avatar as to cut-down on the time spent on doing it (compromise to the second group of fans). They don't want to provide armor customization for a couple of reasons: -- The "iconic" word. They want their characters to have a specific, recognizable look (including what they're wearing) - for cosplay, PR, being memorable, etc. -- Making multiple armor styles available for multiple body models involves quite a bit of mesh work, which can represent a fairly hefty investment. As for squadmate weapon customization - I believe some of the reason has to do with their individualized AI. Note that there were some fairly unique weapons in MET - like the ones you could charge before firing, the ones that fired explosives, etc., and programming squaddie AI to use them judiciously is a fairly complex proposition. Don't yet know the full range of mods/customization available in MEA, but my impression is that the devs did not want to add that complexity to squadmate AI, and they felt it was easier to fine-tune the AI if the exact weapon characteristics were known in advance. that make sense. Did the AI improve tho? I can see that the path finding is more complicated because of the jump jet, but I haven't paid much attention to how my squad fight in battle.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 23, 2017 0:03:05 GMT
My theory is they wanted one mechanic that would suit Single Player and Multiplayer, so as not to design two similar (but actually different systems). You control your squadmates much as you control other multiplayers, i.e. not very much. I recall a dev interview backing this up: they wanted to design one combat mechanic, not two. I'm not adverse to it, actually quite like it, but it is different. Yeah I was saying pretty much the same thing about the DAI changes. Certain people wanted to blame it on 'controller limitation'. Could be, but I suspect that would be only part fo the story.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 0:08:44 GMT
They don't want to provide armor customization for a couple of reasons: -- The "iconic" word. They want their characters to have a specific, recognizable look (including what they're wearing) - for cosplay, PR, being memorable, etc. -- Making multiple armor styles available for multiple body models involves quite a bit of mesh work, which can represent a fairly hefty investment. As for squadmate weapon customization - I believe some of the reason has to do with their individualized AI. Note that there were some fairly unique weapons in MET - like the ones you could charge before firing, the ones that fired explosives, etc., and programming squaddie AI to use them judiciously is a fairly complex proposition. Don't yet know the full range of mods/customization available in MEA, but my impression is that the devs did not want to add that complexity to squadmate AI, and they felt it was easier to fine-tune the AI if the exact weapon characteristics were known in advance. that make sense. Did the AI improve tho? I can see that the path finding is more complicated because of the jump jet, but I haven't paid much attention to how my squad fight in battle. Not that I've noticed - but there are a lot of combat changes since MET, so it's difficult to attribute results to any one single factor. Some squadmates are much more aggressive now w/ charge, melee, etc., so it's quite different.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 23, 2017 0:41:21 GMT
Just as ME2 brought in more actiony at the cost of RPG, for combat..
I hope a MEA2 (or whatever) brings in more RPG at the cost of this extent of action. As in, I'll take, for example, a little less dashing everywhere in large areas (but still keeping the sort of thing around) if it means I get to use squadmates more, the power wheel, 4-5 abilities instead of 3, more squadmate customization, and even some more RPG-y abilities that aren't necessarily so combat-only.
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Post by neocodex and 23 others on Mar 23, 2017 0:53:17 GMT
I would have to agree about the useless character creator. That's good wording right there. Limiting the powers to 3 is something I don't understand either. What was wrong with 4? Oh wait, we had 3 powers in the ME3MP and it worked just fine. Most people even specced only in 2 powers on some builds. And since this whole game was designed by the same studio that was working on ME3MP... What else would you expect? I guess they thought that works good and why change it.
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Post by LilTIM on Mar 23, 2017 0:54:39 GMT
I have to admit that while using 3 powers feels limiting, it is also challenging on it's own - makes your character more focused instead of taking all the powerful skills you want.
The removal of class restrictions also make necessary to limit somehow the amount of powers available, or you would end up with an adept that has equal or more combat/tech skills than biotic. So far i'm enjoying the challenge of having a limited amount of powers, having to rely on squadmates or less obvious tactics to overcome the enemy.
That said, i'm not using the profile switch system at all, it can go die in a fire for all i care.
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Post by guynice on Mar 23, 2017 2:44:36 GMT
I use the profile system on my biotic focused Ryder to switch to the default jetpack, when im not fighting anything that requires my "real profile". The biotic jump/evade sounds are driving me crazy. Otherwise profile switching has been useless (not enough points for multiple maxed skills and passives).
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Post by laughingbanana on Mar 23, 2017 3:11:58 GMT
I am angry to Bioware because shit like this:
I mean come on. 5 years for this kind of crap? :/
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 23, 2017 14:19:15 GMT
To everyone who's argument boils to 'it doesn't bother me' or 'I can make do with'', we are talking about Bioware here. Its a brand name that screams excellence and high expectation, and that's how I felt about them since kotor. There was a point in time where just slapping on the bioware label was enough for me to buy the game, it's just sad now that we fans have to settle for 'it's not that bad'.
all the developments constraint has to be weight against benefit and cost. Maybe like people said, designing extra power slot beyond 3 is extra work, and but it's disheartening to think bioware decided against the extra work because "people will make do with it". If their justification is that only x% for even want this tiny extra feature so it's not worth it, then BioWare has really lost it's mojo.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 14:28:34 GMT
You know, I was angry once, until I took an... I mean, now I enjoy the memes and hilarious videos on youtube.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 14:34:52 GMT
You know, I was angry once, until I took an... I mean, now I enjoy the memes and hilarious videos on youtube. Ha, I've decided I'm going to download a canned laughter track onto my phone and play it every time I speak to Addison. Might help a little.
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Post by Elsariel on Mar 23, 2017 14:48:11 GMT
To everyone who's argument boils to 'it doesn't bother me' or 'I can make do with'', we are talking about Bioware here. Its a brand name that screams excellence and high expectation, and that's how I felt about them since kotor. There was a point in time where just slapping on the bioware label was enough for me to buy the game, it's just sad now that we fans have to settle for 'it's not that bad'. all the developments constraint has to be weight against benefit and cost. Maybe like people said, designing extra power slot beyond 3 is extra work, and but it's disheartening to think bioware decided against the extra work because "people will make do with it". If their justification is that only x% for even want this tiny extra feature so it's not worth it, then BioWare has really lost it's mojo. Like any company, you have to consider the cost it would take to make a change and the consumer demand for it. If the cost is high (cost being time and money) and the consumer demand is low then it's not gonna happen. Or, at least, not right away. They could use that time and cost to change something that has higher demand. Gotta put out the big fires first, then the little ones. As far as I can tell, the biggest fire is the animation problems. Then the saving during priority missions. Then the CC.... then... well, I don't know what else. Those are the biggest complaints I've heard.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 23, 2017 15:05:15 GMT
To everyone who's argument boils to 'it doesn't bother me' or 'I can make do with'', we are talking about Bioware here. Its a brand name that screams excellence and high expectation, and that's how I felt about them since kotor. There was a point in time where just slapping on the bioware label was enough for me to buy the game, it's just sad now that we fans have to settle for 'it's not that bad'. all the developments constraint has to be weight against benefit and cost. Maybe like people said, designing extra power slot beyond 3 is extra work, and but it's disheartening to think bioware decided against the extra work because "people will make do with it". If their justification is that only x% for even want this tiny extra feature so it's not worth it, then BioWare has really lost it's mojo. Like any company, you have to consider the cost it would take to make a change and the consumer demand for it. If the cost is high (cost being time and money) and the consumer demand is low then it's not gonna happen. Or, at least, not right away. They could use that time and cost to change something that has higher demand. Gotta put out the big fires first, then the little ones. As far as I can tell, the biggest fire is the animation problems. Then the saving during priority missions. Then the CC.... then... well, I don't know what else. Those are the biggest complaints I've heard. I could be wrong, but i think the two issues I raised are very low cost to fix, which is why those issues are the ones that irk me the most. And on the topic of CC, after spending a decent chunk of time experimenting, I did end up with something I can live with (but the inability to mess with the eye shape or the facial proportion basically limited what I can work with). If I can come with a acceptable face using the in game CC, it's even less excusable why the presets are so horrendous.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 23, 2017 15:11:10 GMT
You have access to 12 abilities, not 3. Each set of 3 abilities receive modifiers based on the profile's specs.
Abilities are on separate cooldowns now. You are not limited by a global cooldown as in ME3.
In return, switching profiles puts the abilities on their respective cooldowns, which are in return reduced through your class passives which are shared across ALL profiles.
If you're the type to commit to one profile, then 3 abilities are all you need if you develop those abilities properly. You are intentionally gimping yourself though, as the system is there to support you if you need to access more powers.
If you want to only play one Profile, you're limiting yourself out of choice not necessity. You can play a caster with Tech and accomplish the same goal. You can mix it up with other Hybrid specs for more variety.
You're asking for the game to adjust to your stubborn playstyle. That's your choice, but it's not how it works.
---
I'm currently playing Vanguard on Insanity, but I'm also using the Soldier and Adept profiles.
I use the Soldier when there are way too many enemies to handle especially when they are floating and can't be attacked easily. I'm currently only using Turbocharge.
If I'm facing a HUGE enemy and there are nearby explosive canisters, I use the Adept field to Pull and Throw. This one's niche for now.
So basically I use the adept in niche situations where I want to throw shit at people. I use Soldier to wittle down the enemy then Vanguard to finish them off with Charge, Nova, and Shockwave.
There. I'm using the given system to my advantage. I have access to 6 abilities for now at lvl 11 ( I invested in a few passives).
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 23, 2017 15:36:31 GMT
You have access to 12 abilities, not 3. Each set of 3 abilities receive modifiers based on the profile's specs. Abilities are on separate cooldowns now. You are not limited by a global cooldown as in ME3. In return, switching profiles puts the abilities on their respective cooldowns, which are in return reduced through your class passives which are shared across ALL profiles. If you're the type to commit to one profile, then 3 abilities are all you need if you develop those abilities properly. You are intentionally gimping yourself though, as the system is there to support you if you need to access more powers. --- I'm currently playing Vanguard on Insanity, but I'm also using the Soldier and Adept fields. I use the Soldier when there are way too many enemies to handle especially when they are floating and can't be attacked easily. I'm currently only using Turbocharge. If I'm facing a HUGE enemy and there are nearby explosive canisters, I use the Adept field to Pull and Throw. So basically I use the adept in niche situations where I want to throw shit at people. I use Soldier to wittle down the enemy then Vanguard to finish them off with Charge, Nova, and Shockwave. ------ If you want to only play one Profile, you're limiting yourself out of choice not necessity. You can play a caster with Tech and accomplish the same goal. You can mix it up with other Hybrid specs for more variety. You're asking for the game to adjust to your stubborn playstyle. That's your choice, but it's not how it works. P.S. If you're the type to switch, invest in recharge nodes. My response is that having immediate access to more than 3 powers will accommodate even more playstyles, not just mine, but also yours too. I don't want to commit to only one profile, I think the profile setup you had sounds really cool, I just want to have 1 or 2 more power slot than it is currently allowed. I also want to clarify that I am not saying the game is unplayable with only 3 power slot, or boring with 3 power slot. Just because the current system works doesn't mean its the best. If the game had design 5 slot per profile, you would have built a different load and enjoy the hell out of it and I wouldn't have bother to bitch about it. Not sure what you mean by saying "it's not how it works." If the system is built with 3 power slot per profile, then I guess by definition its doesn't work when you try to cram 5 powers into it.
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Lebanese Dude
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 23, 2017 15:41:05 GMT
Honestly given the current system it may be quite unbalanced to have more than 3.
Abilities are not on a global cooldown and have relatively shorter cooldowns than before. Also, you have access to two lines per class to reduce the cooldown of abilities (such as Offensive Biotic and Containment). On top of that, you have the profile passives which don't really have a comparison to other games. Even moreso, you can modify your armor in more ways than one such that you reduce your cooldowns even further.
All in all, it would be a massive clusterfuck to give you more than five. There are already plenty of ways to boost your 3 abilities. Having 5 would break the game. I know it's an SP game, but balance is still important, otherwise the game would become trivial and boring (See KoA for an example)
They could theoretically compensate by increasing individual cooldowns, but that would just be redundant with the profile system.
On top of that, people would just never use profiles if they could conveniently use most of their loadout in one. That goes against their stated design goal of actually using profiles.
You'd have to cut profiles entirely, but that would overhaul the entire system which actually serves to remove contrived class limitations.
It would be marvelous to always have more, but it doesn't always fit the parameters.
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