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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 25, 2016 10:49:13 GMT
#RomanEmpire So overwhelmed by both liberal values and wars, it couldn't sustain it anymore in the 3rd century. It barely was so powerful for 200 years since Julius Caesar.
Shogunate Japan and Imperial Japan. For a few centuries, Japan kept itself away from the west. This stagnation was OK for it, but in the 19th century the Meiji reformation was needed and they did a great job even till after WW1. And guess what, they still despised western countries and weren't liberal. Things for them started to suck when they went into fascist and playing god direction.
Liberal tendencies means destroying your economy for stupid reasons by too much spending, low upbringing, changing your demographic, letting the main religion of your people get changed, have a social tendency of despising traditions and morals etc. That's not how Sasanian Empire flourished over 350 years in Persia and Mesopotamia or Byzantine Empire in early middle ages.
And certainly Islamic civilization worked pretty well in its own point of view, success-wise and practically (kinda evil methods) for 600 years until Mongol Invasion. Plus later in Ottoman Empire age. And even now it's doing a pretty good job spreading all over the world. Even China and India are doing very good atm.
While western culture and civilization is shrinking and committing suicide.
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Post by Lavochkin on Sept 25, 2016 15:19:00 GMT
Vids on the sniper variants of the Garand.
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Unapologetic Western Chauvinist. Barefoot. Great Toenails
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 25, 2016 18:25:45 GMT
#RomanEmpireSo overwhelmed by both liberal values and wars, it couldn't sustain it anymore in the 3rd century. It barely was so powerful for 200 years since Julius Caesar. Shogunate Japan and Imperial Japan. For a few centuries, Japan kept itself away from the west. This stagnation was OK for it, but in the 19th century the Meiji reformation was needed and they did a great job even till after WW1. And guess what, they still despised western countries and weren't liberal. Things for them started to suck when they went into fascist and playing god direction. Liberal tendencies means destroying your economy for stupid reasons by too much spending, low upbringing, changing your demographic, letting the main religion of your people get changed, have a social tendency of despising traditions and morals etc. That's not how Sasanian Empire flourished over 350 years in Persia and Mesopotamia or Byzantine Empire in early middle ages. And certainly Islamic civilization worked pretty well in its own point of view, success-wise and practically (kinda evil methods) for 600 years until Mongol Invasion. Plus later in Ottoman Empire age. And even now it's doing a pretty good job spreading all over the world. Even China and India are doing very good atm. While western culture and civilization is shrinking and committing suicide. I can see where you're coming from, as there is an acute and masochistic lack of appreciation of the Western civilization from journalists, politicians, media, artists and cow-eyed idiots lacking intellectual foundation in natural sciences, mathematics and serious philosophy. I do understand your concern. But I think you might be wrong. First of all, I don't see any value in static, compulsory motherloads of bad ideas and lies. No matter how long their vile, inbred cultures persist. I'm an ideas-person. So from my perspective things look very different. Not only is Roman civilization not dead, but very alive and kicking. It's even winning. Not exactly "Roman" but the thing that Roman civilization really was, which is Western civilization. And the Romans didn't create it. They inherited all of it and embraced it wholesale from the Greeks. And the seed of it all came from the Babylonians (or possibly Sumerians), who also gave us our symbol: The five-pointed star with one point upwards, the symbol of Ishtar which marks so many of our things. Like our flags. Look at the flags of societies which embrace secular Western knowledge and ideas. US, EU, Russia, China (Yes, communism is a Western idea/experiment). The only thing that happened to the Roman empire was that they became Christians around 300. Otherwise, it's still the legacy of their world that we live in. Western civilization is conquering the world. Japan is ours. India is ours. Russia is ours (even if they don't know it). China is pretty much ours. The Evil barbary of Islamists that we see today is a reaction of desperation. And it was predicted 40 years ago.
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ScumbagShepurd
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Sept 25, 2016 19:20:50 GMT
A What would have happened if Hitler had never bothered to attack France (or Britain)? Then they would attack Germany. Both world wars proved one thing: a Great Power cannot stay away from such big conflicts. A war this big means there will be changes in the balance of power. And that means every Great Power would go to war in order to change the balance or keep status quo. Italy and especially USA tried really hard to stay away from the clash during WW1 yet they failed. While western culture and civilization is shrinking and committing suicide.Oh yeah, *air quote* the Decline of the West *air quote*. Predicted 100 years ago by Oswald Spengler, still didn't happen In Soviet Russia they used to brainwash its people about the inevitable collapse of the decadent western culture. Too bad Soviet Russia collapsed first No offense but I never read anything more stupid. Western culture aint shrinking at all. More and more people in Nepal or Ghana or China or Iraq listen to western music, watch western shows, play western games, wear western clothes, and think in western manner. Yes, some Russian & Islamic morons go full retard and try to deny western culture. But this is just a predictable reaction to the successful westernization of the world. 100 years ago some Turkish nations used arrows and wiped their asses with leaves. Now they buy Mersedes-Benz, and wear jeans, and listen some Taylor Swift, and go to legislative elections. The same will eventually happen to Papuan and Amazonian natives and every other nation in the world. Globalization IS westernization and it's just getting started.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 25, 2016 20:33:33 GMT
A What would have happened if Hitler had never bothered to attack France (or Britain)? Then they would attack Germany. Both world wars proved one thing: a Great Power cannot stay away from such big conflicts. A war this big means there will be changes in the balance of power. And that means every Great Power would go to war in order to change the balance or keep status quo. Italy and especially USA tried really hard to stay away from the clash during WW1 yet they failed. No. That is really hard to believe. First of all they lacked the means to do so. Utterly lacked means to do it. It would be military and political insanity. Not going to happen. Secondly, they were democracies. Political leaders who preached war would be replaced. Thirdly, for what? They declared war because of their promises to Poland. But Poland didn't exist anymore. It was swallowed by Soviet and Germany. What next? Declare war on Soviet too? I think it's quite likely the "phoney war", as long as it didn't turn into live war, would eventually have been settled with no consequences through negotiations. Fourthly, what's next? When Germany then attacks Stalin's Soviet, whith it's Gulags, with it's murders of 5 mil Ukrainians, etc 20 mil other atrocities, Communist Soviet, Bolshevik Soviet, the Soviet that attacked and digested the other half of Poland, and attacked Finland, the Soviet that threatens the West and promises communist domination of the entire world, is Britain, France and USA then going to ally themselves with Stalin and declare Germany war? I think not. I think it might be more likely - not likely, I said just more likely - that US would offer Germany some kind of aid. The unpredictable Jokers in the deck is of course Italy and Japan (Ok, Japan is not unpredictable, but USA did not declare Germany war after Pearl harbor, only Japan). Poor allies for Germany. And Italy was driven to its foolishness by Mussolini's desperation to get in on the spoils of war, before the war was ended, because Germany attacked France and looked so successful.
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PhroX
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Post by PhroX on Sept 25, 2016 21:02:52 GMT
There's no way Britain and France would have just sat there and "peaced out" had Germany not attacked the latter. That would be political suicide on behalf of whatever leaders tried it. Germany has launched another major war of aggression (at that time WW1 was definitely [and yes, incorrectly] viewed as such) and in doing so demonstrated that any agreement signed with them is utterly meaningless (Munich and all that). No treaty Germany would be prepared to sign would be accepted by the Allies - either by the politicians or the public.
Militarily, they weren't in a position to attack in '39 or '40, but by '41 the significant advantages Britain and France had in industry, manpower and resources would be coming into play - even without them knowing just how bad a state Germany's economy was in, it was clear that, given time they would be able to grind the latter out in a war of material.
Of course, the Germans knew this, which is why they gambled everything they had on a risky attack aimed at taking out France quickly.
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Post by kizanare on Sept 25, 2016 21:11:23 GMT
I think a more interesting question is simply addressing the inherent nature of Hitler and the Nazis supposedly superacism ultranationlist ultra-totalitarian/violent schema from an objective perspective....
The downsides for lack of a better description have been harped on continuously in various ways, and yet ironically if someone were to embrace Volkish warrior/culture, they would actually be embracing an improvement on Ancient Greece/Sparta and Ancient Rome/etc. The truth is virtually every single recorded/accepted "ancient" culture was pretty much completely bankrupt by the time of their fall, or perhaps even during the middle, the only exception being like "really" ancient Greece.
For example, the Nazis weren't nationalist in the way the... say... ancient Greeks were, that is to say, they viewed the world as bending around peculiar personalities and that was not constrained by borders. In an equivalent context, they would have no trouble viewing for instance someone from "the US" as being "French in nature." That is to say, a "French person" lets say can be viewed as possessing a particular personality, and it's conceivable a person of a similar personality might be born anywhere in the world.
For instance, currently the US views people from the US as universally "American" regardless of whether they would actually more resemble someone from a different "culture" or "country."
In other words, it was egalitarian with preferences towards a particular kind of individual, and that individual. Even Hitler himself criticized for instance the Pagan Germanic cults for being moribund and therefore lifeless. In this sense, in the tradition of historiography and improving on other lets just say European cultures, the Nazis pretty much eclipsed everyone, including Ancient Rome, Mesopotamia, the Islamic societies (which Hitler admired greatly, even once being perturbed that Germany had to be "Christian" instead of Islamic), various other competing Medieval societies whether that's King Arthur and England, Jeanne D'Arc and France, Poland, the Italian states, Spain (whether of the Islamic, Christian, or other, variety), Russia, Byzantium, Sumeria.
They neglect how the rights of women were considerably improved in oligarchic Sparta than in "Democratic" Athens and the Delian League (such as being able to own land, etc). Then they might neglect how Sparta was this force to be reckoned with, and yet as a rite of passage they would literally just go out in the countryside and murder a bunch of people (helots) and who were basically just kept around as murder toys for no reason than that they weren't Spartan.
Of course, you can see the resemblance on that point, to Nazi Germany, as I say no reason to dwell on it. They exercised preference for a particular kind of person and against a kind of other personality, so yeah, if you were that other personality, it was going to be a bad life.
Even the Vikings, from both a cultural or military standpoint were inferior to the Nazis, they embraced class-ism and traditional privileges like slavery with a peculiar relish, and we're frequently disruptive to societies they became involved with at one point or another. Contrast, for instance, with the Vandals conquest of Hispania, where a great deal of culture was simply left alone, people were left to their own devices, that is to say.
Obviously this isn't expressing like "Neo Nazism" merely to say that if you were insistent on copying paradigms from other cultures for your own purposes, or otherwise appropriating them, standard answers like "Rome" or "India" or whatever would probably lead you less astray than if you appropriate Nazism in some capacity.
Frankly, the biggest thorn in Nazism, from just an objective standpoint, wasn't really race or nationality, IMO, as I say, because you are comparing to a pretty serious hodge-podge of crap, but was frankly gender. Even towards the very end of the Nazi regime, they possessed this particular attitude of roles and obligations for women versus men, for instance, I always thought it was odd that pretty much everyone was involved in the war effort by the Battle of Berlin (old, young, etc), but women they had this kind of curiously almost American attachment to gender and those particular roles and such.
That isn't to say they didn't diverge there, either, gender was part of a strong shift in the global schema, but also a strong limitation, IMO.
The truth is, most cultures in history, once you get out the magnifying glass, aren't much to look at.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 25, 2016 21:33:10 GMT
#RomanEmpireSo overwhelmed by both liberal values and wars, it couldn't sustain it anymore in the 3rd century. It barely was so powerful for 200 years since Julius Caesar. Shogunate Japan and Imperial Japan. For a few centuries, Japan kept itself away from the west. This stagnation was OK for it, but in the 19th century the Meiji reformation was needed and they did a great job even till after WW1. And guess what, they still despised western countries and weren't liberal. Things for them started to suck when they went into fascist and playing god direction. Liberal tendencies means destroying your economy for stupid reasons by too much spending, low upbringing, changing your demographic, letting the main religion of your people get changed, have a social tendency of despising traditions and morals etc. That's not how Sasanian Empire flourished over 350 years in Persia and Mesopotamia or Byzantine Empire in early middle ages. And certainly Islamic civilization worked pretty well in its own point of view, success-wise and practically (kinda evil methods) for 600 years until Mongol Invasion. Plus later in Ottoman Empire age. And even now it's doing a pretty good job spreading all over the world. Even China and India are doing very good atm. While western culture and civilization is shrinking and committing suicide. I can see where you're coming from, as there is an acute and masochistic lack of appreciation of the Western civilization from journalists, politicians, media, artists and cow-eyed idiots lacking intellectual foundation in natural sciences, mathematics and serious philosophy. I do understand your concern. But I think you might be wrong. First of all, I don't see any value in static, compulsory motherloads of bad ideas and lies. No matter how long their vile, inbred cultures persist. I'm an ideas-person. So from my perspective things look very different. Not only is Roman civilization not dead, but very alive and kicking. It's even winning. Not exactly "Roman" but the thing that Roman civilization really was, which is Western civilization. And the Romans didn't create it. They inherited all of it and embraced it wholesale from the Greeks. And the seed of it all came from the Babylonians (or possibly Sumerians), who also gave us our symbol: The five-pointed star with one point upwards, the symbol of Ishtar which marks so many of our things. Like our flags. Look at the flags of societies which embrace secular Western knowledge and ideas. US, EU, Russia, China (Yes, communism is a Western idea/experiment). The only thing that happened to the Roman empire was that they became Christians around 300. Otherwise, it's still the legacy of their world that we live in. Western civilization is conquering the world. Japan is ours. India is ours. Russia is ours (even if they don't know it). China is pretty much ours. The Evil barbary of Islamists that we see today is a reaction of desperation. And it was predicted 40 years ago. Western Culture had partially collapsed in WW1 and WW2 (its soul perished in Europe, but survived in American continents), and it's bombarded with social and cultural radicals since late 50s that it's hardly can be called western. 18th century was the peak of the western culture and it was very religious, moderate and philosophical. The American constitution and amendments are the ultimate production of it. Western culture was something unique throughout history and, no, the Greek culture was not western, but "classic". It should be called western 2.0 and interestingly it is and has to fight with Neo-Marxist culture. Neo-Marxist culture is the enmity against western culture and all other traditional cultures in the world. So basically Neo-Marxism (aka Political Correctness and SJWs) is the opponent of the western culture (2.0) and it sabotages any influence the western culture has in the world. Not only that it replaces it in many areas. Considering the recent influence of that among liberals and academics... which is political correctness It will just grow and it will be a blight for any kind of culture. And if this Neo-Marxism wins, you shouldn't be happy because it's an authoritarian one. Ultimately people like the Chinese will reform their culture and create something much more complex and powerful. Some geniuses of History have been able to do something similar!
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ScumbagShepurd
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
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Post by ScumbagShepurd on Sept 26, 2016 4:51:42 GMT
Then they would attack Germany. Both world wars proved one thing: a Great Power cannot stay away from such big conflicts. A war this big means there will be changes in the balance of power. And that means every Great Power would go to war in order to change the balance or keep status quo. Italy and especially USA tried really hard to stay away from the clash during WW1 yet they failed. No. That is really hard to believe. First of all they lacked the means to do so. Utterly lacked means to do it. It would be military and political insanity. Not going to happen. Secondly, they were democracies. Political leaders who preached war would be replaced. Thirdly, for what? They declared war because of their promises to Poland. But Poland didn't exist anymore. It was swallowed by Soviet and Germany. What next? Declare war on Soviet too? I think it's quite likely the "phoney war", as long as it didn't turn into live war, would eventually have been settled with no consequences through negotiations. Fourthly, what's next? When Germany then attacks Stalin's Soviet, whith it's Gulags, with it's murders of 5 mil Ukrainians, etc 20 mil other atrocities, Communist Soviet, Bolshevik Soviet, the Soviet that attacked and digested the other half of Poland, and attacked Finland, the Soviet that threatens the West and promises communist domination of the entire world, is Britain, France and USA then going to ally themselves with Stalin and declare Germany war? I think not. I think it might be more likely - not likely, I said just more likely - that US would offer Germany some kind of aid. The unpredictable Jokers in the deck is of course Italy and Japan (Ok, Japan is not unpredictable, but USA did not declare Germany war after Pearl harbor, only Japan). Poor allies for Germany. And Italy was driven to its foolishness by Mussolini's desperation to get in on the spoils of war, before the war was ended, because Germany attacked France and looked so successful. But Britain and France actually declared war on Germany right after Hitler invade Poland. They didn't do much to save Poland, true, but this is mainly due to Polish lack of resistance and not because France and Britain didn't want to fight. Turned out Polish strength was heavily overrated and Poland collapsed in two weeks which was unexpected (Franco-Polish war plans had the French to attack Germany on 17th day of the war-- which turned out to be useless 'cause Poland was beyond hope to Sep17).
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Post by straykat on Sept 26, 2016 5:20:59 GMT
The truth is, most cultures in history, once you get out the magnifying glass, aren't much to look at. They're not something to examine really. Just lived. Therein lies the quality. But of course, it would mean nothing to an outsider. Why would it? As for the Nazis, their culture was more cult than culture. All of the Aryan stuff was based on "New Age" fads like that spoken by Olcott and Madame Blavatsky. I put it in the same category as Seances and Snake Oil and other kooky shit popping up at the turn of the century. Specifically, "Theosophy", with a racial bent. I honestly think it was all due to a revulsion to hard materialist/scientific attitudes that had taken root. There were a lot of attempts at bringing magic and mysticism back in the world, and Nazis/Aryan groups did it in a bad way. But I don't think it has much to do with Germans as a whole. Or Vikings. Or anything historical. And during the dreariness of Weimar and post WW1 and a collapse of deceny, people were looking for something to make them feel good again. There were apparently a lot of would be messiahs on the streets at the time, spouting salvation. But Hitler was the whole package.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 26, 2016 6:07:18 GMT
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Primordial Walker
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Lemme tell you about a porcupine's balls; they're small and they don't give a shit!
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Lemme tell you about a porcupine's balls; they're small and they don't give a shit!
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Post by Primordial Walker on Sept 26, 2016 6:50:24 GMT
Roman Emperor Gaius made his horse a senator. First clopper confirmed.
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Post by straykat on Sept 26, 2016 6:59:51 GMT
Roman Emperor Gaius made his horse a senator. First clopper confirmed. Gaius..? This is Caligula, right? But yeah, funny....
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kizanare
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kizanare on Sept 26, 2016 7:01:01 GMT
The truth is, most cultures in history, once you get out the magnifying glass, aren't much to look at. They're not something to examine really. Just lived. Therein lies the quality. But of course, it would mean nothing to an outsider. Why would it? As for the Nazis, their culture was more cult than culture. All of the Aryan stuff was based on "New Age" fads like that spoken by Olcott and Madame Blavatsky. I put it in the same category as Seances and Snake Oil and other kooky shit popping up at the turn of the century. Specifically, "Theosophy", with a racial bent. I honestly think it was all due to a revulsion to hard materialist/scientific attitudes that had taken root. There were a lot of attempts at bringing magic and mysticism back in the world, and Nazis/Aryan groups did it in a bad way. But I don't think it has much to do with Germans as a whole. Or Vikings. Or anything historical. And during the dreariness of Weimar and post WW1 and a collapse of deceny, people were looking for something to make them feel good again. There were apparently a lot of would be messiahs on the streets at the time, spouting salvation. But Hitler was the whole package. The Nazis certainly promoted some wild histories, to the point where virtually everyone labeled them psuedo-science... I think my favorite was the world ice theory, which was intended to promote the notion that because nordics prefer ice therefore it was a harder, more grounded thing than the weird "jewishness" of relativity. They also argued some things like that every other ancient culture was just an "Aryan" culture but was kind of written out of later histories and things like this, that the original settlers of the North Germanic plain were harbingers of advanced civilization coming from Atlantis, and eventually rode to several other areas of the world. It's not nearly as rampage crazy as it's cooked up to be, however, for instance they didn't actually have any attachment to the "blonde hair" and "blue eye" thing seeming to say that anyone might physically be what they were but then the particular archetype. They were of course adamantly against disabled people and things of this nature of course. I thought it was interesting that some people played a counter historiography at the Nazis own game.. some guy or another basically played the same card and stated that modern day Germany was not the Aryan Germany of old, and was in fact rather just some other group termed the "Alpines." There were also other areas, such as some Nazis being vehement abolitionists and things of this nature, viewing the plight of Africans in whatever country as the "greatest blight in mankind's history" or something to that effect, or just generally promoting things like exercise or good health. I guess they just seemed like nerds on some level, but the world itself was collapsing and IMO just about everyone is responsible for the collapse that ultimately happened. Trying to artificially pin the blame on one group might work for awhile, but then, it well, won't. I certainly don't view them as inherently hostile or bent on world domination or whatever crazy thing people cooked up for them, it was perhaps as you say, people who lived, so what relevance does it have then?
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Post by straykat on Sept 26, 2016 7:10:10 GMT
I know he gets bundled with theosophy, but I consider him just a mystic Catholic, like Theresa of Avila or Hildegard.
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kizanare
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kizanare on Sept 26, 2016 7:14:21 GMT
I kind of think the basic idea with leadership is that leaders would be helpful, not harmful, not sure America is capable of understanding that... they seem to view it as a license to harm people, and are shocked that would ever have any consequences of any kind.
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Post by straykat on Sept 26, 2016 7:18:04 GMT
I kind of think the basic idea with leadership is that leaders would be helpful, not harmful, not sure America is capable of understanding that... they seem to view it as a license to harm people, and are shocked that would ever have any consequences of any kind. I think our leadership trends are pretty mild. Like I was saying earlier, been watching a Cold War doc recently. It was funny running across the episode where Nixon got ousted. At the time, he was making inroads with the Soviets about gradual disarmament. And the KGB guys being interviewed were explaining how dumbfounded all the Russian leadership were at the time... how the most prestigious leader of the West could be ousted for some petty burglaries. They fully admitted this kind of shit was common to them.
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Post by kizanare on Sept 26, 2016 7:21:45 GMT
I kind of think the basic idea with leadership is that leaders would be helpful, not harmful, not sure America is capable of understanding that... they seem to view it as a license to harm people, and are shocked that would ever have any consequences of any kind. I think our leadership trends are pretty mild. Like I was saying earlier, been watching a Cold War doc recently. It was funny running across the episode where Nixon got ousted. At the time, he was making inroads with the Soviets about gradual disarmament. And the KGB guys being interviewed were explaining how dumbfounded all the Russian leadership were at the time... how the most prestigious leader of the West could be ousted for some petty burglaries. They fully admitted this kind of shit was common to them. Well that's anything but mild, it's the spastic overreaction troll culture which America indoctrinates every citizen with and is why they are absolutely a 2nd world if not a borderline 3rd world country. Anyway.... I hate this country... and just about everyone in it... no amount of experience has every really changed that.
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Post by straykat on Sept 26, 2016 7:40:52 GMT
I think our leadership trends are pretty mild. Like I was saying earlier, been watching a Cold War doc recently. It was funny running across the episode where Nixon got ousted. At the time, he was making inroads with the Soviets about gradual disarmament. And the KGB guys being interviewed were explaining how dumbfounded all the Russian leadership were at the time... how the most prestigious leader of the West could be ousted for some petty burglaries. They fully admitted this kind of shit was common to them. Well that's anything but mild, it's the spastic overreaction troll culture which America indoctrinates every citizen with and is why they are absolutely a 2nd world if not a borderline 3rd world country. Anyway.... I hate this country... and just about everyone in it... no amount of experience has every really changed that. How did you reach that point by what I said? lol We're talking about Soviets and KGB even being surprised at our checks on power. That's not troll culture. It's better and more empowering for the citizenry in the longrun. Even if Nixon's crime was petty. Or especially Clinton's "crime". The alternative is much worse imo. The alternative is Assad pulling fingernails off of little kids... just because he can.
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Post by kizanare on Sept 26, 2016 7:43:47 GMT
Well that's anything but mild, it's the spastic overreaction troll culture which America indoctrinates every citizen with and is why they are absolutely a 2nd world if not a borderline 3rd world country. Anyway.... I hate this country... and just about everyone in it... no amount of experience has every really changed that. How did you reach that point by what I said? lol We're talking about Soviets and KGB even being surprised at our checks on power. That's not troll culture. It's better and more empowering for the citizenry in the longrun. Even if Nixon's crime was petty. Or especially Clinton's "crime". The alternative is much worse imo. There is no alternative, the "American model" is designed to create nerds, it does inexorably. It's a short term gap filler, it's a piece of **** and everyone knows that. You know what happens when super douchebag patriarchy guy marries nice wholesome gal, they create "Europeans." Evolution will destroy "American society" one way or another, eventually, of course it might even take a chunk out of "European society" one day. Either that, or they have a parasitic relationship and create more typical entitled Americans. Currently these "Europeans" go by another title, "LGBT" and are discarded immediately and barred from essentially anything, amounting to essentially an intra-border genocide. Once this story goes purely "live" so to speak, America will fall in the same way Nazi Germany once did, actually perhaps infinitely harder, the absolute carnage, death, and destruction inflicted is on a sheer magnitude very few civilizations ever even glimpse.
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Post by straykat on Sept 26, 2016 7:49:12 GMT
How did you reach that point by what I said? lol We're talking about Soviets and KGB even being surprised at our checks on power. That's not troll culture. It's better and more empowering for the citizenry in the longrun. Even if Nixon's crime was petty. Or especially Clinton's "crime". The alternative is much worse imo. There is no alternative, the "American model" is designed to create nerds, it does inexorably. It's a short term gap filler, it's a piece of **** and everyone knows that. You know what happens when super douchebag patriarchy guy marries nice wholesome gal, they create "Europeans." Evolution will destroy "American society" one way or another, eventually, of course it might even take a chunk out of "European society" one day. Either that, or they have a parasitic relationship and create more typical entitled Americans. Currently these "Europeans" go by another title, "LGBT" and are discarded immediately and barred from essentially anything, amounting to essentially an intra-border genocide. You lost me. You're talking to a half-Asian/half white person. Who also grew up with many mixed or minority folks. And we're all Americans. And I wasn't even born recently. I'm pushing 40. This has been ongoing. You're acting like it's a hundred years ago or something. What are you actually mad about? Not ideas. But tangible things, that you can touch and see? And LGBT have made inroads. This isn't heaven. Nothing's perfect. But this still is a place of opportunity, for many different people.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 26, 2016 15:38:56 GMT
I can see where you're coming from, as there is an acute and masochistic lack of appreciation of the Western civilization from journalists, politicians, media, artists and cow-eyed idiots lacking intellectual foundation in natural sciences, mathematics and serious philosophy. I do understand your concern. But I think you might be wrong. First of all, I don't see any value in static, compulsory motherloads of bad ideas and lies. No matter how long their vile, inbred cultures persist. I'm an ideas-person. So from my perspective things look very different. Not only is Roman civilization not dead, but very alive and kicking. It's even winning. Not exactly "Roman" but the thing that Roman civilization really was, which is Western civilization. And the Romans didn't create it. They inherited all of it and embraced it wholesale from the Greeks. And the seed of it all came from the Babylonians (or possibly Sumerians), who also gave us our symbol: The five-pointed star with one point upwards, the symbol of Ishtar which marks so many of our things. Like our flags. Look at the flags of societies which embrace secular Western knowledge and ideas. US, EU, Russia, China (Yes, communism is a Western idea/experiment). The only thing that happened to the Roman empire was that they became Christians around 300. Otherwise, it's still the legacy of their world that we live in. Western civilization is conquering the world. Japan is ours. India is ours. Russia is ours (even if they don't know it). China is pretty much ours. The Evil barbary of Islamists that we see today is a reaction of desperation. And it was predicted 40 years ago. Western Culture had partially collapsed in WW1 and WW2 (its soul perished in Europe, but survived in American continents), and it's bombarded with social and cultural radicals since late 50s that it's hardly can be called western. 18th century was the peak of the western culture and it was very religious, moderate and philosophical. The American constitution and amendments are the ultimate production of it. Western culture was something unique throughout history and, no, the Greek culture was not western, but "classic". It should be called western 2.0 and interestingly it is and has to fight with Neo-Marxist culture. Neo-Marxist culture is the enmity against western culture and all other traditional cultures in the world. So basically Neo-Marxism (aka Political Correctness and SJWs) is the opponent of the western culture (2.0) and it sabotages any influence the western culture has in the world. Not only that it replaces it in many areas. Considering the recent influence of that among liberals and academics... which is political correctness It will just grow and it will be a blight for any kind of culture. And if this Neo-Marxism wins, you shouldn't be happy because it's an authoritarian one. Ultimately people like the Chinese will reform their culture and create something much more complex and powerful. Some geniuses of History have been able t I think at this point it might be a good time to ask you what you think "Western Culture" and "Western Civilization" really is? Let me phrase it like this, two questions: What do you think are the important, unique elements of Western Civilization? Those that set it apart from other civilizations? How and when did they originate? And what are the elements of Western Civilization that you appreciate and value?
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Sept 26, 2016 16:19:00 GMT
I actually prefer Zoroastrian and Ancient Chinese cultures more than the western culture. Surprised?
I still have a vague theory on it and simply use Spengler's idea of the western culture with some revisions to it.
In 19th century western culture was becoming a mechanical civilization and most of its great intellectual productions belong to 18th century and earlier. I cannot add more things to my previous comment. So that's it for you. I'm just at the beginning of his famous book and need to read it all ... other than that I can't give you anything more right now. My mind is "stuck".
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on Sept 26, 2016 18:37:05 GMT
I actually prefer Zoroastrian and Ancient Chinese cultures more than the western culture. Surprised? I still have a vague theory on it and simply use Spengler's idea of the western culture with some revisions to it. In 19th century western culture was becoming a mechanical civilization and most of its great intellectual productions belong to 18th century and earlier. I cannot add more things to my previous comment. So that's it for you. I'm just at the beginning of his famous book and need to read it all ... other than that I can't give you anything more right now. My mind is "stuck". I had to ask, because you have these opinions and make these claims, but do not make much sense. Spengler? Then please don't call it "Western Culture" or "Western Civilization", because that is not really what Spengler considers. Spengler is just another of many myopic philosophers. May I instead suggest Bertrand Russel 'A History of Western Philosophy' ? Other words to be careful about is "liberal". Liberal in american understanding is leftwing values, leaning towards social democratic. By European understanding "liberal" represents a somewhat anti-government version of rightwing ideas, roughly the same as american "Libertarian". Here's the deal. Western Civilization is Greece, Rome and forward. It's also fair to say that it includes Japan and Russia today (and probably India and China soon). This is the common understanding and definition of what Western Civilization is. There are very good reasons for this, because here is where the central and essential ideas are carried. Those that made Western Civilization unique and so ridiculously successful in science and technology, and the foremost, giant champion of reason and human freedom. The Western Civilization found the key to true knowledge. No other Civilization has ever done that. Religion is not an essential element of Western Civilization. On the contrary, Christianity almost killed the Western Civilization during the "Dark Ages" in Europe. Luck had it that the Black Death struck. Demonstrating the futility of religion and the lies of the priests for everyone to see. And culling the social structures, leaving new space to breathe. Prayers didn't work. Rationalism and reason did. Quarantine did. There's a reason it's called Classical! There's a reason it's called Renaissance! The American Constitution is quite rightly one of the finest products of Western Civilization. It contains much of what is the essence of Western Civilization. Basically only the science parts are missing. Freedom of thought, expression and debate is central. Compulsory dogma, like religions, "political correctness", ideologies (like communism, fascism, islamisms) are the enemies of Western Civilization. What we have to fight for is freedom of thought and speech.
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Post by dzejkob on Sept 26, 2016 18:45:03 GMT
Christianity/religion is quite important part of the our (and any) civilization so far historically, a lot of our customs and laws are based on it ''Love your neighbor as yourself'. Not to mention that christian monk have also kept a lot of knowledge that otherwise would be lost to time, many christian monasteries gave refugee to people in times of need, and now running a lot of charities. Mendel he was a monk in a monastery and he developed his theory about inheritance as one example (and most famous one) here is a list of others: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientistsYes there was corruption and many problems but over time Christianity grew up.
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