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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 15:30:12 GMT
Based on the sheer scope of the game, from locations to galaxy map, to combat mechanics, to exploration in sandboxes, the main quest, sidequests, to the multiplayer mode...I think they just ran out of time and took some shortcuts.
It doesn't bother me all that much, because well, i'm more audio than visual anyways...but I understand people's gripes completely. I just think they're blowing them a bit out of proportion.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 24, 2017 15:31:10 GMT
If this proves anything, it's how godawful it is to explain something in depth via tweets... gee.
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Post by goishen on Mar 24, 2017 15:37:56 GMT
I've said it before on other forums, I'll say it again here. They tried to do too much. Just like with DAI. They spread their wings to fly, and fell flat on their face. Them modeling MEA after DAI is anathema, just let me say. It, as an idea, should be burnt with fire.
I just pray that they can learn from this. Because if they can't. Fuck.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 24, 2017 15:39:06 GMT
Pretty much the real question is, why wasn't this delayed another 6-12 months and finished properly. I have a hunch their facial animation team is incompetent to the task, simply that. They've said since the very beginning when they announced the game how much improved the facial anims would be, and they repeated that over and over and over, even their insider Shinobi claimed that facial anims where a big improvement over ME3s, I guess he actually didn't see that... just said what he was told to. Then they said they were going to fix it with this or that patch, and nothing really changed since the first look we got to the game back then. So my conclusion is that. I'm again going to say that personally I don't care too much about facial anims, but that doesn't mean I can't tell the difference or that others don't care.
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Post by slimgrin on Mar 24, 2017 15:41:47 GMT
Toward the end of that soundcloud vid, they accuse gamers of conspiracy theories while they've been speculating wildly with no factual basis before that. Lol. She basically goes into apologist mode dismissing valid criticism of the game too. No one's overthinking things - the animations among other elements just aren't up to snuff. Whether Bioware games 'were never about that' or not isn't the point. This is one time I think journalists actually got it right. Also that bit about every character being approved by some board at EA...really? Wouldn't the art leads, the people actually creating the characters, have the final say? They really trot out every major NPC and do a design by committee? That seems crazy if true.
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Post by goishen on Mar 24, 2017 15:46:43 GMT
Pretty much the real question is, why wasn't this delayed another 6-12 months and finished properly. I have a hunch their facial animation team is incompetent to the task, simply that. They've said since the very beginning when they announced the game how much improved the facial anims would be, and they repeated that over and over and over, even their insider Shinobi claimed that facial anims where a big improvement over ME3s, I guess he actually didn't see that... just said what he was told to. Then they said they were going to fix it with this or that patch, and nothing really changed since the first look we got to the game back then. So my conclusion is that. I'm again going to say that personally I don't care too much about facial anims, but that doesn't mean I can't tell the difference or that others don't care. As long as the emotions are real, I can almost live with an ASCII character being redrawn on my screen. Not, "Your father's dead." "Oh well, what's for dinner?" Wait, what the fuck? And I don't even have a parent that's died. I can't imagine what it'll be like once one of them do die.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 24, 2017 15:56:24 GMT
My issues with what I've seen of MEA are more about the writing style and general juvenile tone of the game.... They promised MEA would not be DAI in space but from what I've heard (haven't played myself yet) it very much is. Unless you play it how do you know the writing style and juvenile tone? Surely you are not relying on a few youtube clips? Seems odd to make a sweeping judgement like that. Several gameplay videos and reviews. Feedback from a friend. But yes, I will reserve final judgement until I've played it myself.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Jberry0410
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Post by joglee on Mar 24, 2017 16:15:35 GMT
Pretty much the real question is, why wasn't this delayed another 6-12 months and finished properly. I have a hunch their facial animation team is incompetent to the task, simply that. They've said since the very beginning when they announced the game how much improved the facial anims would be, and they repeated that over and over and over, even their insider Shinobi claimed that facial anims where a big improvement over ME3s, I guess he actually didn't see that... just said what he was told to. Then they said they were going to fix it with this or that patch, and nothing really changed since the first look we got to the game back then. So my conclusion is that. I'm again going to say that personally I don't care too much about facial anims, but that doesn't mean I can't tell the difference or that others don't care. I take it you didn't listen to the podcast.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 24, 2017 16:18:05 GMT
I take it you didn't listen to the podcast. No, I didn't.
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XBL Gamertag: Jberry0410
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Post by joglee on Mar 24, 2017 16:26:39 GMT
I take it you didn't listen to the podcast. No, I didn't. I recommend doing so.
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Post by London on Mar 24, 2017 16:27:03 GMT
While obviously not wonderful and the animations sometimes come after the character has finished speaking, so they look odd when the facial expression is supposed to accompany the idea being stated...
The animations haven't been so bad that they ruin the game for me. I think it's one thing to watch a gif of a bad animation that repeats itself, and it being a fleeting moment while playing.
Same thing with character looks - I think Cora/Liam look good in game whereas some people found screenshots to make them look as ugly as possible.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: Hector535
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Post by hector535 on Mar 24, 2017 16:39:56 GMT
Pretty much the real question is, why wasn't this delayed another 6-12 months and finished properly. EA probably didn't let them.
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Post by disi on Mar 24, 2017 16:40:20 GMT
Unless you play it how do you know the writing style and juvenile tone? Surely you are not relying on a few youtube clips? Seems odd to make a sweeping judgement like that. Several gameplay videos and reviews. Feedback from a friend. But yes, I will reserve final judgement until I've played it myself. I am holding back myself and not judge anything, being rather practical. ChristopherOdd started a lets play of Andromeda, which I started watching yesterday. Thing is, watching him playing even the worst games, makes me want to play them as well Watching his approach in reading all texts, talking to every person until all dialogue is done, clearing every cave before progressing the story is how I usually play games as well. He also stated that he uses the default look to prevent any animation glitches later in the game. p.s. and so far, him scanning everything new, checking all the humans are 100% human Looks good. I also think about if there is something that can be done via postprocessing with Reshade for example. You take the original game and add some contrast, making faces looking more structured and a you can do a lot more with colours, effects and so on.
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Post by hathur on Mar 24, 2017 17:05:15 GMT
As long as the emotions are real, I can almost live with an ASCII character being redrawn on my screen. Not, "Your father's dead." "Oh well, what's for dinner?" Wait, what the fuck? And I don't even have a parent that's died. I can't imagine what it'll be like once one of them do die. Yeah.. it was horribly handled. I'm old enough now that I've lost 1 parent and have numerous friends who have lost one or both parents to age or illness.. and none of them react like that.. even the ones who hated their parents and had a decade or more of resentment towards them... not everyone breaks down bawling in tears (took me almost a whole week after mine died before I got hit by it and was suffering terrible grief for weeks), but the attitude shift is just so completely wrong in the start with how Ryder is suddenly non-plussed and going about her / his business like its another day with no worries... no sign of short temper, no brooding or sulking, no tired / weary look on her / his face etc.. just a normal day. Dragon Age 2 handled this a lot more cleanly at least.. we got a scene that showed Hawke in mourning and trying to cope / accept their loss.. it wasn't long, but it conveyed the fact "Hawke is grieving and in pain" and it was believable. The only consolation I've found is that later in the game (no spoiler), if you use emotional dialogue options in certain places it shows / convey that Ryder is still hurting and dealing with the loss... it certainly helped mitigate the frustration of earlier, but it was still poorly handled and will be completely missed unless you choose the emotional dialogue choice in a few key scenes.
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Post by rolenka on Mar 24, 2017 17:50:59 GMT
I was concerned when I saw those GIFs. Playing the game, you know in the back of your mind it is low quality and it nags at you sometimes, but those GIFs really take it out of context and showcase problems. You experience it differently while playing.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 24, 2017 18:10:55 GMT
I am sorry, they can explain it whoever much they want but the fact remains, the dialogues (one of the main features of this game and a hallmark of this developer) look bad most of the time and downright terrible at some times. Now, I am not a graphics fetishist, I am still happy to play ME1 for example and don't mint the outdated graphics at all but in this case, the main problem is that it doesn't fit together. Characters simply do not like they fit into the environments and that makes them look even more uncanny.
And Uncharted comparisons, really? Give me a break, who needs Uncharted. Compare to the Witcher 3, a game at least as big (if not bigger, 2 years old at this point and developed by a team that mostly supports itself, doing it's own publishing for the most part, etc. Yet there, the characters - while surely not always perfect either - look believable, they look like they belong into this wold and in conversations, they are animated in a way, so that you can relate to them, rather than having to laugh at them. BioWare is a much older, much more experienced studio with the backing and the money of the biggest publisher out there and yet, 2 years later and after 5 years of development with a huge team, they can't even get close to that level of consistent quality? Sorry but whichever way you are trying to spin or explain this, it's a disgrace, there simply is no other way to ut it.
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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 24, 2017 19:02:03 GMT
As long as the emotions are real, I can almost live with an ASCII character being redrawn on my screen. Not, "Your father's dead." "Oh well, what's for dinner?" Wait, what the fuck? And I don't even have a parent that's died. I can't imagine what it'll be like once one of them do die. Yeah.. it was horribly handled. I'm old enough now that I've lost 1 parent and have numerous friends who have lost one or both parents to age or illness.. and none of them react like that.. even the ones who hated their parents and had a decade or more of resentment towards them... not everyone breaks down bawling in tears (took me almost a whole week after mine died before I got hit by it and was suffering terrible grief for weeks), but the attitude shift is just so completely wrong in the start with how Ryder is suddenly non-plussed and going about her / his business like its another day with no worries... no sign of short temper, no brooding or sulking, no tired / weary look on her / his face etc.. just a normal day. Dragon Age 2 handled this a lot more cleanly at least.. we got a scene that showed Hawke in mourning and trying to cope / accept their loss.. it wasn't long, but it conveyed the fact "Hawke is grieving and in pain" and it was believable. The only consolation I've found is that later in the game (no spoiler), if you use emotional dialogue options in certain places it shows / convey that Ryder is still hurting and dealing with the loss... it certainly helped mitigate the frustration of earlier, but it was still poorly handled and will be completely missed unless you choose the emotional dialogue choice in a few key scenes. For the sake of balance in general, I think it may be a bit "canned" to assume everyone will have a powerful reaction to death of a family member. I felt the "we weren't close" option very realistic in general. A lot of people initially shrug off death as if they "don't care" or "it happens, not a big deal" just to push past it and ignore their feelings. It often manifests later in their life, or when they finally allow themselves to focus on it emotionally. So to me, it didn't seem that crazy that Ryder would just push past it and appear unphased initially (as I know from experience, that's how I react when confronted with death).
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Post by vonuber on Mar 24, 2017 19:26:40 GMT
One of my favourite games of all time (LiS) had the worst lip syncing I'd ever seen, until they patched it later. Didn't effect my enjoyment one bit.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 24, 2017 19:36:48 GMT
I felt the "we weren't close" option very realistic in general. A lot of people initially shrug off death as if they "don't care" or "it happens, not a big deal" just to push past it and ignore their feelings. It often manifests later in their life, or when they finally allow themselves to focus on it emotionally. I tried to play my Ryder as someone who had a very intact and loving relationshi with her father (simply because thankfully, that reflects my relationship with my own parents) but in retrospect, I think it fits much better to play her as someone who was a bit estranged or at the very least distant. Not only because of the death reaction, it actually didn't bother me that much as there is so much going on at the time, it made sense to me that Ryder simply didn't have the space to process this fully. Especially since she was also just fully intertwined with SAM, which seems like it would be another very traumatic event. But I think it also makes sense in terms of the interaction Alec Ryder has with you in the tutorial and from what he says. He doesn't seem like he's a great father, really. It seems he sees his kids more as a recourse or at best as his trainees who'd better live up to his expectations. While he seems to regret this attitude to some degree, it's how he acts and when I saw the interaction between Alec and Sara in the tutorial, I just thought that I am glad this is not my father. So in my next playthrough, I'm definitely go with "We weren't close".
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Post by biotichamster on Mar 24, 2017 20:03:47 GMT
Why blame EA? You know these things, called release dates, aren't exactly kept secret between developers and publishers right? Bioware would have known what their launch window was for this game, likely, a full 2 years ago, if not more. Exactly this. Bioware could have scaled the game down a little bit in order to devote resources to animations. I think what happened is that they thought they would have more time than they did. They probably hit a wall somewhere, lost time, and had to prioritize what was going to get done. It may have been too late at that point to make a difference by scaling back meaningless quests, so they sacrificed the animations.
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