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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 25, 2017 0:05:10 GMT
Well, guess what grandpa, times changed, technology goes forward, hardware is getting more and more advanced, there is more competition etc. If you want me to spend 1000€ on new computer every few years and 60 bucks for your game, then you better deliver. If you decide to make your game graphic and power greedy and force me too have good computer to run it decently, you better make those faces and animations look appropriate to that. You're acting like they are making games because they have such a sweet heart and are giving us games for free. This is their job. It's same in every business, if you want to make money and stay relevant, you have to evolve, adapt, follow the market and go along with future. They said we shouldn't compare MEA with MET? Are you serious? How the hell would they expect anyone to not compare them? It's a same fucking universe. It's a Mass effect game. If they are not making Mass effect game, then change the title. No, instead they want to make money based of older, well established title, but they don't want you to compare them? LOL, what? I can understand not comparing story, since this is fresh start with different characters and such, but to not compare it by gameplay and design? You serious? No one told them to make this game big as it is. I'm sure many would be happy with something like MET. No one told Bioware to go with quantity over quality. If they can't pull it off, if they don't have resources and money or are too lazy, they should just stick to what they can make good. It really doesn't make sense to compare Andromeda when it's been known Andromeda would be a spin off. It's gameplay from there doesn't need to be based off the others, in faact it actually lets one get away with experimenting with various mechanics and such, like going open world instead of the bland corridor style 2 and 3 used. Not to mention andromeda is a hell of a lot closer to what bioware originally wanted the franchise to be than 2 and 3. They lacked exploration and followed cliche story arks as well as being to much action packed with very little rpg elements, Andromeda at least shows more effort in that aspect. I'll also mention it's not a direct sequel to the original trilogy which also supports it not needing to be compared to the OG trilogy. The ONLY similarity is it's set in the same universe, other than that, that's all. thing is you're quite wrong on saying people weren't asking for something like Andromeda. I've made it known that while I loved the original trilogy, it went vs what mass effect was originally meant to be lol. Andromeda is setting the foundation on rectifying that so long as they iron out what andromeda got wrong and refining what it did right. Mass effect to me was "supposed" to be about exploration and the originals really didn't follow that, instead it did what games before it did. It was essentially a cover based third person shooter labeled an "rpg" even though it was an rpg at the minimum. I call that boring when you already had gears of war doing that first (both have great story though). Andromeda to me is at least trying to stand out on what it offers. How many triple A games are out there that prioritize open world exploration with a space setting? Those last two sentences are exactly why I support andromeda even with its flaws, because little to no one else is trying to do what bioware is doing with andromeda.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 0:09:22 GMT
Finally someone who feels how I do about this inane crap I've seen about the game from people.
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Post by suikoden on Mar 25, 2017 0:32:57 GMT
Well, guess what grandpa, times changed, technology goes forward, hardware is getting more and more advanced, there is more competition etc. If you want me to spend 1000€ on new computer every few years and 60 bucks for your game, then you better deliver. If you decide to make your game graphic and power greedy and force me too have good computer to run it decently, you better make those faces and animations look appropriate to that. You're acting like they are making games because they have such a sweet heart and are giving us games for free. This is their job. It's same in every business, if you want to make money and stay relevant, you have to evolve, adapt, follow the market and go along with future. They said we shouldn't compare MEA with MET? Are you serious? How the hell would they expect anyone to not compare them? It's a same fucking universe. It's a Mass effect game. If they are not making Mass effect game, then change the title. No, instead they want to make money based of older, well established title, but they don't want you to compare them? LOL, what? I can understand not comparing story, since this is fresh start with different characters and such, but to not compare it by gameplay and design? You serious? No one told them to make this game big as it is. I'm sure many would be happy with something like MET. No one told Bioware to go with quantity over quality. If they can't pull it off, if they don't have resources and money or are too lazy, they should just stick to what they can make good. It really doesn't make sense to compare Andromeda when it's been known Andromeda would be a spin off. It's gameplay from there doesn't need to be based off the others, in faact it actually lets one get away with experimenting with various mechanics and such, like going open world instead of the bland corridor style 2 and 3 used. Not to mention andromeda is a hell of a lot closer to what bioware originally wanted the franchise to be than 2 and 3. They lacked exploration and followed cliche story arks as well as being to much action packed with very little rpg elements, Andromeda at least shows more effort in that aspect. I'll also mention it's not a direct sequel to the original trilogy which also supports it not needing to be compared to the OG trilogy. The ONLY similarity is it's set in the same universe, other than that, that's all. thing is you're quite wrong on saying people weren't asking for something like Andromeda. I've made it known that while I loved the original trilogy, it went vs what mass effect was originally meant to be lol. Andromeda is setting the foundation on rectifying that so long as they iron out what andromeda got wrong and refining what it did right. Mass effect to me was "supposed" to be about exploration and the originals really didn't follow that, instead it did what games before it did. It was essentially a cover based third person shooter labeled an "rpg" even though it was an rpg at the minimum. I call that boring when you already had gears of war doing that first (both have great story though). Andromeda to me is at least trying to stand out on what it offers. How many triple A games are out there that prioritize open world exploration with a space setting? Those last two sentences are exactly why I support andromeda even with its flaws, because little to no one else is trying to do what bioware is doing with andromeda. Feel free to give info regarding all your insider knowledge about what Bioware meant to do with the trilogy lol. And this game is even less RPG than ME 1-3. RPG means you're playing a role, ie. your choices matter. In Andromeda you're playing a template that can answer "yes" politely in up to 4 different ways in a gated open world full of fetch quests you can do in whatever order you want! 74% - right up there with Sonic, as it should be.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 25, 2017 1:34:20 GMT
It really doesn't make sense to compare Andromeda when it's been known Andromeda would be a spin off. It's gameplay from there doesn't need to be based off the others, in faact it actually lets one get away with experimenting with various mechanics and such, like going open world instead of the bland corridor style 2 and 3 used. Not to mention andromeda is a hell of a lot closer to what bioware originally wanted the franchise to be than 2 and 3. They lacked exploration and followed cliche story arks as well as being to much action packed with very little rpg elements, Andromeda at least shows more effort in that aspect. I'll also mention it's not a direct sequel to the original trilogy which also supports it not needing to be compared to the OG trilogy. The ONLY similarity is it's set in the same universe, other than that, that's all. thing is you're quite wrong on saying people weren't asking for something like Andromeda. I've made it known that while I loved the original trilogy, it went vs what mass effect was originally meant to be lol. Andromeda is setting the foundation on rectifying that so long as they iron out what andromeda got wrong and refining what it did right. Mass effect to me was "supposed" to be about exploration and the originals really didn't follow that, instead it did what games before it did. It was essentially a cover based third person shooter labeled an "rpg" even though it was an rpg at the minimum. I call that boring when you already had gears of war doing that first (both have great story though). Andromeda to me is at least trying to stand out on what it offers. How many triple A games are out there that prioritize open world exploration with a space setting? Those last two sentences are exactly why I support andromeda even with its flaws, because little to no one else is trying to do what bioware is doing with andromeda. Feel free to give info regarding all your insider knowledge about what Bioware meant to do with the trilogy lol. And this game is even less RPG than ME 1-3. RPG means you're playing a role, ie. your choices matter. In Andromeda you're playing a template that can answer "yes" politely in up to 4 different ways in a gated open world full of fetch quests you can do in whatever order you want! 74% - right up there with Sonic, as it should be. It's quite simple if you want sources and you're interested in it,look it up. Mass effect is the same as halo where it was originally meant to be an open world exploration game, sometimes things change where a dev goes a different route, I much prefer mass effect as an actual space exploration game like it was meant to be. funny you referenced "choice matters" but then you bring up the original trilogy when its conclusion showed it really doesn't... and rpg games go beyond just role playing a character and making choices, but also how the game itself plays out. Loot systems, quests and doungens, custimzation, leveling your character up, etc etc. Honestly if you're wanting to dumb Andromeda down to a game where you say "yes" in 4 different ways and reference it's fetch quests I can very easily dumb down the original trilogy as a series that has good guy/bad choice in corridor spaced maps with a choice system that as I stated earlier meant nothing in the end. I'll give credit on calling Andromeda a "gated" open world as it is true, it's not an all out open world like I'd like it to be, but it is the closest Its been yet. Personally i really could care less on game ratings, many get over hyped, many get under appreciated. In the end I don't let numbers deter me away from a game, so guess I'll shrug if you view it as a 74%, I see it better than that but I'm not going to argue the point as I have no intention of changing your mind if you're not interested. I will argue why I enjoy it though or what I see differently than others.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 1:43:04 GMT
Anyone from the 80's 90's generation will tell you that when a videogame was released you got what you got. Their were no forum's or twitter to complain about how much the game s**ked. And that's one reason why the gaming industry crashed. The publishers started releasing shovelware games trying to make easy money. The consumers bought them at first because they didn't know any better. There was no forum or twitter to complain about how shoddy a game was to inform people. Once the consumers were wise to it they stopped buying games altogether, and BAM, the bottom fell out.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 25, 2017 1:49:19 GMT
I was talking about certain parts of the game. I think we can agree, it would be foolish to deny that game is suffering from bugs, poor animations and poor npcs faces as few examples. So, what caused this? Either lack of time, lack of money or just not putting enough effort into it. My point was, they decided to make the game couple of times bigger than ME3 and sacrifise some quality for it. It shows. Like many would say: Quality>quantity. Now, I didn't say the game is bad or doesn't deserve anyones attention. Every gamer will decide for themselves if it's worth their money. I just can't agree with OP saying we shouldn't compare games or that we shouldn't complain. That's not how any business and real life works. I am consumer, it's my money and I can do whatever I want with it. And I can say, no thios game is not worth my money. It's my opinion and my right to make a decision. All fair points, and thank you for remaining civil within this discussion. I could've misunderstood the OP, but I don't think it's a matter of specifically not comparing games - moreso comparing a 3 game trilogy to an initial title is pretty unfair. Especially when you consider that we don't have the whole trilogy. It's fair to just compare this game to other open world games within the genre (DA:I or TW3 or MGS) then it is to the ENTIRE ME trilogy. Let's not discuss how real life and business works, being we don't really know each other's backgrounds, and most business professionals would agree that each industry is its own animal and not easily compared. All business models with sales to end-consumers are not created equal, nor run in the same fashion. I'd never try to tell you where you can and cannot spend your money. But I think if we're being rational, I think it's moreso the "heat" of the commentary being tossed around. "Garbage, junk, should've never been made, etc" that is what some people are questioning. There's a lot of hyperbole regarding the current state of the game, which imo, is pretty unfair and disrespectful to the devs that clearly spent a lot of time and effort trying to produce this title. Simply put, I highly doubt no matter how hard/long they tried, there'd still be people trying to compare 3 fully fleshed out beloved titles to a singular reboot title and it'd NEVER live up to expectations. That's the real point. Comparing 3 of the some of the most iconic titles in videogame history with 1 reboot looking to create a new trilogy simply isn't fair and nigh impossible to live up to. I actually can agree with most of what you are saying, even though I think this game is just ok so far (though I intend to finish my playthrough and see how it goes), except for the two bolded parts. I don't know the ins and outs of the video game business, but it is a business, which means it needs to make money. If people bought this game expecting another Mass Effect title, and instead got DAI in space, then they may not trust the company enough to order the next game at launch, and instead wait for a sale, therefore cutting into the company's profits. BW and EA had to know that by putting Mass Effect in this game's title, it would get compared to the original trilogy, and since it is so different, that comparison might not be favorable. I'm sure they were aware that they were taking a big risk. And as far as hyperbole, surely you noticed all the hyperbole in the OP? Certainly the "haters" are exaggerating...calling the game trash is counterproductive at best...but I've seen people with legitimate, politely-worded criticisms get dismissed by fans of Andromeda as "entitled whiners" who are "hung up on nostalgia for MET." As if these people genuinely cannot accept that someone else might have a different opinion than them, and that both opinions can be valid. I have not been waiting five long years for this game as some people have. I played MET for the first time a few months ago, and only because EA offered ME2 up for free. As I played ME2, I realized that many of the problems I'd had with DAI didn't exist in MET. Although I do like taking control of my team in DA and prefer the DA setting, MET is more appealing to me in many other ways compared to DAI. So as I play Andromeda and see how similar it is to DAI...I'm a little disappointed, and I'm concerned for what DA4 will look like if this is BioWare's new direction.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 25, 2017 2:42:42 GMT
All fair points, and thank you for remaining civil within this discussion. I could've misunderstood the OP, but I don't think it's a matter of specifically not comparing games - moreso comparing a 3 game trilogy to an initial title is pretty unfair. Especially when you consider that we don't have the whole trilogy. It's fair to just compare this game to other open world games within the genre (DA:I or TW3 or MGS) then it is to the ENTIRE ME trilogy. Let's not discuss how real life and business works, being we don't really know each other's backgrounds, and most business professionals would agree that each industry is its own animal and not easily compared. All business models with sales to end-consumers are not created equal, nor run in the same fashion. I'd never try to tell you where you can and cannot spend your money. But I think if we're being rational, I think it's moreso the "heat" of the commentary being tossed around. "Garbage, junk, should've never been made, etc" that is what some people are questioning. There's a lot of hyperbole regarding the current state of the game, which imo, is pretty unfair and disrespectful to the devs that clearly spent a lot of time and effort trying to produce this title. Simply put, I highly doubt no matter how hard/long they tried, there'd still be people trying to compare 3 fully fleshed out beloved titles to a singular reboot title and it'd NEVER live up to expectations. That's the real point. Comparing 3 of the some of the most iconic titles in videogame history with 1 reboot looking to create a new trilogy simply isn't fair and nigh impossible to live up to. I actually can agree with most of what you are saying, even though I think this game is just ok so far (though I intend to finish my playthrough and see how it goes), except for the two bolded parts. I don't know the ins and outs of the video game business, but it is a business, which means it needs to make money. If people bought this game expecting another Mass Effect title, and instead got DAI in space, then they may not trust the company enough to order the next game at launch, and instead wait for a sale, therefore cutting into the company's profits. BW and EA had to know that by putting Mass Effect in this game's title, it would get compared to the original trilogy, and since it is so different, that comparison might not be favorable. I'm sure they were aware that they were taking a big risk. And as far as hyperbole, surely you noticed all the hyperbole in the OP? Certainly the "haters" are exaggerating...calling the game trash is counterproductive at best...but I've seen people with legitimate, politely-worded criticisms get dismissed by fans of Andromeda as "entitled whiners" who are "hung up on nostalgia for MET." As if these people genuinely cannot accept that someone else might have a different opinion than them, and that both opinions can be valid. I have not been waiting five long years for this game as some people have. I played MET for the first time a few months ago, and only because EA offered ME2 up for free. As I played ME2, I realized that many of the problems I'd had with DAI didn't exist in MET. Although I do like taking control of my team in DA and prefer the DA setting, MET is more appealing to me in many other ways compared to DAI. So as I play Andromeda and see how similar it is to DAI...I'm a little disappointed, and I'm concerned for what DA4 will look like if this is BioWare's new direction. And I've seen well crafted reasons why people love the game get dismissed as "shills" by detractors. It goes both ways.
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Post by tantumdicverbo on Mar 25, 2017 2:56:56 GMT
Lulz Been gaming since the 2600 bruh, and ColecoVision. GOML, also, I disagree with your post entirely and am older than you, so.... This is ONE old school gamer's perspective, and his alone. YERHAW Yep. Owned the 2600, used to play the Channel F at the store, but never got my hands on one. Also, Pong. The industry owes me obedience!
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 25, 2017 3:00:19 GMT
I actually can agree with most of what you are saying, even though I think this game is just ok so far (though I intend to finish my playthrough and see how it goes), except for the two bolded parts. I don't know the ins and outs of the video game business, but it is a business, which means it needs to make money. If people bought this game expecting another Mass Effect title, and instead got DAI in space, then they may not trust the company enough to order the next game at launch, and instead wait for a sale, therefore cutting into the company's profits. BW and EA had to know that by putting Mass Effect in this game's title, it would get compared to the original trilogy, and since it is so different, that comparison might not be favorable. I'm sure they were aware that they were taking a big risk. And as far as hyperbole, surely you noticed all the hyperbole in the OP? Certainly the "haters" are exaggerating...calling the game trash is counterproductive at best...but I've seen people with legitimate, politely-worded criticisms get dismissed by fans of Andromeda as "entitled whiners" who are "hung up on nostalgia for MET." As if these people genuinely cannot accept that someone else might have a different opinion than them, and that both opinions can be valid. I have not been waiting five long years for this game as some people have. I played MET for the first time a few months ago, and only because EA offered ME2 up for free. As I played ME2, I realized that many of the problems I'd had with DAI didn't exist in MET. Although I do like taking control of my team in DA and prefer the DA setting, MET is more appealing to me in many other ways compared to DAI. So as I play Andromeda and see how similar it is to DAI...I'm a little disappointed, and I'm concerned for what DA4 will look like if this is BioWare's new direction. And I've seen well crafted reasons why people love the game get dismissed as "shills" by detractors. It goes both ways.Yes? I acknowledged that. What's your point?
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Post by smilesja on Mar 25, 2017 3:02:55 GMT
And I've seen well crafted reasons why people love the game get dismissed as "shills" by detractors. It goes both ways. Yes? I acknowledged that. What's your point? The point is, you and others make it sound like people who don't hold a favorable opinion of the game are being shunned aside by extreme Bioware fans. Nevermind that there are a bunch of people on this forum who are more than willing to call people mindless Biodrones for liking this game. Hyperbole surrounds ME: A, and there's going to be a lot of nasty insults thrown from both sides.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 25, 2017 3:15:10 GMT
Yes? I acknowledged that. What's your point? The point is, you and others make it sound like people who don't hold a favorable opinion of the game are being shunned aside by extreme Bioware fans. Nevermind that there are a bunch of people on this forum who are more than willing to call people mindless Biodrones for liking this game. Hyperbole surrounds ME: A, and there's going to be a lot of nasty insults thrown from both sides. ...considering that I barely said anything negative about the game and have actually said in other threads that I don't think the game is that bad (gave it a 7/10 in the ratings thread), it does kind of feel like some people (you, for one example) are jumping on me for not absolutely loving it without reservation. I mean, seriously. You're telling me my opinion of the game is not favorable, and I haven't actually said that. I don't like the direction it took compared to MET. It has a lot of the negatives of DAI without many of the positives, and I don't want BW to continue in that direction. But I have insulted no one. Also, since you appear to not have read my post thoroughly, I will quote a relevant part for you:
I acknowledged it right there, in the very post you originally quoted, and yet you managed not to read it. So, since I have already acknowledged that both sides are exaggerating, why did you feel the need to call me out to point this fact out to me that I already know?
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Post by smilesja on Mar 25, 2017 3:19:27 GMT
The point is, you and others make it sound like people who don't hold a favorable opinion of the game are being shunned aside by extreme Bioware fans. Nevermind that there are a bunch of people on this forum who are more than willing to call people mindless Biodrones for liking this game. Hyperbole surrounds ME: A, and there's going to be a lot of nasty insults thrown from both sides. ...considering that I barely said anything negative about the game and have actually said in other threads that I don't think the game is that bad (gave it a 7/10 in the ratings thread), it does kind of feel like some people (you, for one example) are jumping on me for not absolutely loving it without reservation. I mean, seriously. You're telling me my opinion of the game is not favorable, and I haven't actually said that. I don't like the direction it took compared to MET. It has a lot of the negatives of DAI without many of the positives, and I don't want BW to continue in that direction. But I have insulted no one. Also, since you appear to not have read my post thoroughly, I will quote a relevant part for you:
I acknowledged it right there, in the very post you originally quoted, and yet you managed not to read it. So, since I have already acknowledged that both sides are exaggerating, why did you feel the need to call me out to point this fact out to me that I already know? I never jumped on you I'm just saying that let's not act like the detractors are being pounced on and only them. That's all, I know you haven't insulted anyone I'm just pointing out that fact.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 25, 2017 3:25:03 GMT
...considering that I barely said anything negative about the game and have actually said in other threads that I don't think the game is that bad (gave it a 7/10 in the ratings thread), it does kind of feel like some people (you, for one example) are jumping on me for not absolutely loving it without reservation. I mean, seriously. You're telling me my opinion of the game is not favorable, and I haven't actually said that. I don't like the direction it took compared to MET. It has a lot of the negatives of DAI without many of the positives, and I don't want BW to continue in that direction. But I have insulted no one. Also, since you appear to not have read my post thoroughly, I will quote a relevant part for you:
I acknowledged it right there, in the very post you originally quoted, and yet you managed not to read it. So, since I have already acknowledged that both sides are exaggerating, why did you feel the need to call me out to point this fact out to me that I already know? I never jumped on you I'm just saying that let's not act like the detractors are being pounced on and only them. That's all, I know you haven't insulted anyone I'm just pointing out that fact. As I've pointed out twice now, I didn't do that. There is another thread where I was accused of being one of the "haters" even though I stated explicitly that I was having some fun playing the game (but I dared point out some things I didn't like...my mistake), so you accusing me of pretending that this is one-sided did not help matters.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Mar 25, 2017 3:28:38 GMT
I never jumped on you I'm just saying that let's not act like the detractors are being pounced on and only them. That's all, I know you haven't insulted anyone I'm just pointing out that fact. As I've pointed out twice now, I didn't do that. There is another thread where I was accused of being one of the "haters" even though I stated explicitly that I was having some fun playing the game (but I dared point out some things I didn't like...my mistake), so you accusing me of pretending that this is one-sided did not help matters. I apologize then if that was me. I have been arguing with the people who vehemently hate this game for a couple days now, so I am quite irksomed at the moment when it comes to dealing with it. I may have prematurely just skimmed your post due to a lot of the long posters here, and assumed you are one of them. For that I apologize.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 25, 2017 3:34:15 GMT
As I've pointed out twice now, I didn't do that. There is another thread where I was accused of being one of the "haters" even though I stated explicitly that I was having some fun playing the game (but I dared point out some things I didn't like...my mistake), so you accusing me of pretending that this is one-sided did not help matters. I apologize then if that was me. I have been arguing with the people who vehemently hate this game for a couple days now, so I am quite irksomed at the moment when it comes to dealing with it. I may have prematurely just skimmed your post due to a lot of the long posters here, and assumed you are one of them. For that I apologize. It was you, yes, but I appreciate the apology I don't hate the game at all. It's missing some things for me (which I won't rehash) but it's definitely got enough to keep me interested and see where it all goes. Plus, Vetra kicks ass.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 25, 2017 3:45:17 GMT
As I've pointed out twice now, I didn't do that. There is another thread where I was accused of being one of the "haters" even though I stated explicitly that I was having some fun playing the game (but I dared point out some things I didn't like...my mistake), so you accusing me of pretending that this is one-sided did not help matters. I apologize then if that was me. I have been arguing with the people who vehemently hate this game for a couple days now, so I am quite irksomed at the moment when it comes to dealing with it. I may have prematurely just skimmed your post due to a lot of the long posters here, and assumed you are one of them. For that I apologize. dragontartare I need to apologize as well as I too have been spending all week arguing with detractors that it clouded my judgment. Me being tired due to it being late further blinded me.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 25, 2017 3:50:15 GMT
I apologize then if that was me. I have been arguing with the people who vehemently hate this game for a couple days now, so I am quite irksomed at the moment when it comes to dealing with it. I may have prematurely just skimmed your post due to a lot of the long posters here, and assumed you are one of them. For that I apologize. dragontartare I need to apologize as well as I too have been spending all week arguing with detractors that it clouded my judgment. Me being tired due to it being late further blinded me. No worries, smiles
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 4:02:22 GMT
I apologize then if that was me. I have been arguing with the people who vehemently hate this game for a couple days now, so I am quite irksomed at the moment when it comes to dealing with it. I may have prematurely just skimmed your post due to a lot of the long posters here, and assumed you are one of them. For that I apologize. dragontartare I need to apologize as well as I too have been spending all week arguing with detractors that it clouded my judgment. Me being tired due to it being late further blinded me. You can get caught in that frame of mind and kind of have tunnel vision, it happens.
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