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Post by Ieldra on Mar 28, 2017 10:26:26 GMT
Is this good or not? Well.... yes and no. Observations:
First, I have to say that this theme of exploration and colonization works for me. Which is nice, since I had serious problems with the dominant themes of the MET and how they were presented to us. This time, I'm ok with going along without, so far, any major criticisms. In this aspect alone, mind you.
MEA and ME1 MEA occasionally reminds me of ME1. I'm exploring, often in a vehicle so very reminiscent of the Mako, on new worlds which have their own aesthetic appeal and identity, occasionally picking up stuff, random and not so random, investigating odd structures etc.. The mining is extremely inefficient compared to other ways to gather minerals, and I suspect we'll have fewer such worlds than I'd prefer in the end, but all in all this is really nice. The world is also almost as seamless as ME1's was, so your sense of place is mostly intact. The world, however, continues to appear small, something I've also held against the MET. Movement between locations simply doesn't matter much. Poof, you're there. I think this is inappropriate but more about that in the worldbuilding section.
MEA and DAI MEA also occasionally reminds me of DAI. Unfortunately, the first such aspect that comes to mind is not one DAI's better parts but one of its worst: collection tasks. Exploration on planets often does unveil interesting stuff, but it also unlocks a set of collection tasks like "find these 6 broken drones" or "place scanners at these 6 locations". These are optional, but there are far too many of them, and they clutter up the journal and the maps with icons which suggest something signficant but only point at chores you'd rather be done with as fast as possible.
There are also collection tasks featuring unmarked sites placed partly in excessively hard-to-access areas, of which I managed to complete not a single one so far, since I suspect the reward in no way justifies the effort - even if it was just with a really nice view, for while the scenery has its appeal, it in no way approaches the impact of DAI's landscapes. In the emotional impact of its landscapes, MEA even stays behind ME1, even though obviously, the visuals are way more technically advanced. Also, why does simply going to specific places increase planet viability? That makes no sense. The secondary mission system where you send teams out is a straight copy of DAI's wartable mission system, as is the system of leveling up the Nexus, but with far less groundwork in lore. Such a system does not work well in an environment you do not already know, and "leveling up the Nexus" is insufficiently explained. The system works and I use it, but as opposed to DAI, it doesn't add significantly to the experience.
Worldbuilding? Uh...what's that? Which brings me to the worldbuilding. Which is, in my opinion, MEA's worst feature by a very big margin. Did *anyone* actually think about making the world interesting and consistent? Humanoid aliens again? With primary enemies looking like barely-masked copies of the MET's protheans/collectors and your first potential ally species taken right out of the SW universe? And of course they're also humanoid. And that's just the boring parts, don't get me started about the annoying ones. There we have this giant robotic thing we have to deactivate in a mission on a planet. It is a robot and it has, by its name, a clearly designated technical task. OK, good. It also looks like a Thresher Maw made of metallic parts with three legs added. Not really inspiring, but....OK. Then....it proceeds to roar like an angry Thresher Maw. WTF?????? Believe me, things that strike you as "just wrong" in similar ways are a regular occurence.
Here's another one: Pebee says the Milky Way was "so been there, done that. Well, not I, but someone did". Well....no. By the old Codex, the Milky Way was 97% unexplored and would've had enough unexplored space for a hundred plots like that of MEA. We all know why we are in Andromeda, and I don't have a problem with it, but characters need a plausible in-world motivation. Whoever wrote Pebee here clearly didn't have the faintest idea of what was plausible. It would've been better to omit saying anything at all. I mean, it isn't as if such motivation would be hard to conceive of, right?
And another one: I had some talk with a character I've forgotten about how they scanned the Heleus cluster from the MW. I got some very convoluted explanation about what amounted to FTL scanning with geth tech. FTL scanning was impossible under the MEU's technical paradigm but I might've gone along with it had it solved an important problem. Well....that wasn't the case at all. It solved a non-existing problem. Planets, my dear writers, as a rule don't change that much in a million years or two that their viability is affected. So if you scanned this place from two million light-years away and got, as usual, two-million-year-old information. you actually could expect the planets to be still viable when you arrived 650 years later. They did change, but that was for non-natural reasons, which is explained well enough and part of the plot. Congratulations, you compromised your world's integrity for no reason at all. Epic fail.
Should I go on? With how the skies change immediately after you do some important stuff on a planet and it immediately becomes 50% more viable? This was awful in "Total Recall" and it isn't any better here. An enforced delay of, say, a hundred more years in cryo-sleep would've added a nice SF aspect to the plot, but no, we can't have that. It must all be as everyone's living in the same city, how else could the moron players ever understand what happening? Or wasn't it the supposed player's incapability of understanding, but rather the writers? "SF writers don't have a sense of scale" is a trope supposedly widespread, but most of them, judging from the books I read, make at least a token attempt to make things plausible. MEA? Nope. Nothing at all. Not that I find this all that surprising, since apparently the only writer ever employed by Bioware for the MEU who cared about such things left in the middle of making ME2.
And another one: has anyone thought of a plausible placement of these memory thingies we need to unlock Ryder's past? I mean, well, it's obviously completely plausible to find one on a world neither you nor your father nor the AI has ever been. If it was *my* memory, I could justify it, after all memory triggers can be odd, but it's an AI's memory that, to top it all off, was purposefully hidden from me. That makes no sense at all.
I just hope that the explanation of the Remnant retains some plausbility.
Writing and VA: ...have a disparate quality. While the main interaction scenes with major characters, while not exactly on the level of most of the MET, are done reasonably well in most cases, much of the rest is....sorry, there's no way to say this politely....uninspired, bland, generic, cheesy, campy, childish, boring, groan-worthily predictable and bare of anything that would engage you intellectually or emotionally. Among other things, I'm thoroughly sick of family stuff. As if there wasn't anything more interesting to have a conflict about in a new galaxy. As if that wasn't enough, many characters seem to read their lines from teleprompters as they appear with no sense of context. Having said that, while this level of writing is ubiquitous outside the main character interaction scenes, it doesn't have all that much of an impact once you're back from your first planet mission. And resigned to it. After all, ME's writing was always full of cheap drama and contrived emotion only loosely grounded in lore, with some notable exceptions that carried much of the stories alone.
Minor annoyances: I've already written enough for one post so I'll make this short: several aspects of the game, as a game, aren't up the standards I expect from a game that cost me 70€. Coming from TW3's and DXMD's smooth movement to MEA feels like a step 10 years back. In fact, MEA's movement reminds me of KOTOR's movement when it first came out. I replayed it last year, and it didn't feel significantly different now. It's as if they're still using the same code as then (yeah, I know that can't be). Here's a minor example: when you activate your Witcher sense in TW3, you can't climb or jump. When you activate your scanner in MEA, you also can't climb or jump. In principle, no problem at all, but there's a difference: in MEA you can't walk up steps while scanning (or at least some steps, I don't know what the conditions are), so that for instance, a 10cm step up to a platform stops you from moving, and you have to switch off the scanner and jump. That the mantle-up function is so finicky in its requirements that it's basically useless doesn't help. Add the animations and some characters' pasty faces. I guess that's a well-known complaint by now, but it's not less significant for being "just" an aesthetic feature. There is more but I have to stop now.
The overall picture that emerges for me is a game that works overall, but at the same time, annoys me so often and so thoroughly that it has a significant impact on my enjoyment. I'm really tired of bringing TW3 in as a counterexample, but if you've played that, it is clearly recognizeable how much more thought went into TW3's smallest detail. Maybe it's a budget problem, but I'm hearing MEA cost 40 million. Where did all that go? Thinking about how you can make your character presets more ugly?
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Post by Ieldra on Mar 28, 2017 16:48:05 GMT
No comment? Does that mean everyone agrees, or that I should start talking about gay representation. I've heard that's a super-important problem...
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 28, 2017 17:32:17 GMT
Kinda unfair on the world-building.
If MEA does anything right it's world-building. There is a steady flow of information about your surroundings with plenty of mystery throughout it all. The PC is capable of talking to both local and initiative personnel to understand the context of their situation fairly consistently. You actively take part in "literally" building the world and ambient/triggered dialogue is consistently updated to reflect those changes on and off-world. I
Your comments regarding it don't really make much sense.
Aliens will always be humanoid. This is simply a matter of consistency in gameplay and art design, especially for a species that is part of combat. What you're asking for is unfeasible. Given that evolution is locally bound, if you had no issues with humanoid aliens in the trilogy then you shouldn't have issues with the ones in Andromeda.
Regarding the giant robot thing (Architect), a little thought into it and you would have realized the implication from its name that it's the one that burrowed all those giant chasms. It's a robot. It's not going to speak. It's going to make some noise.
Your comment on Peebee is nonsensical. That's her opinion and her opinion only. Just because she said it, doesn't make it true. We all know why BioWare ditched the Milky Way so there's no reason to make it a bigger issue than it really is.
Your comment on the Remnant Tech efficiency is not remotely scientific. In fact the Remnant's entire premise is being far more advanced than ours. Even so, the example of the air being clearer is probably the easiest one to explain. Air purification does not take much time at all, with visible changes happening as fast as one rain shower.
The geth scanning bit is the only one that is somewhat understandably odd. The game stopped the explanation at "this is geth tech" so I took it for what it was, just like how I took people using space magic as scientific in the trilogy.
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Post by Debaser on Mar 28, 2017 17:37:36 GMT
Kinda unfair on the world-building. If MEA does anything right it's world-building. You actively take part in "literally" building the world and ambient/triggered dialogue is consistently updated to reflect those changes on and off-world. Is my game bugged? I always hear about those damn strawberries or 'Should I take a spot in the outpost?' even when I go back to Eos and the other planets I get the same recycled ambient dialogue.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 28, 2017 17:47:43 GMT
Kinda unfair on the world-building. If MEA does anything right it's world-building. You actively take part in "literally" building the world and ambient/triggered dialogue is consistently updated to reflect those changes on and off-world. Is my game bugged? I always hear about those damn strawberries or 'Should I take a spot in the outpost?' even when I go back to Eos and the other planets I get the same recycled ambient dialogue. Possibly. There are quite a few bugs in dialogue progression. Also I don't think they "save" so if you don't hear an ambient dialogue at the appropriate time, you'll lose it when another event is triggered.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 28, 2017 17:54:02 GMT
Kinda unfair on the world-building. If MEA does anything right it's world-building. You actively take part in "literally" building the world and ambient/triggered dialogue is consistently updated to reflect those changes on and off-world. Is my game bugged? I always hear about those damn strawberries or 'Should I take a spot in the outpost?' even when I go back to Eos and the other planets I get the same recycled ambient dialogue. Same. I think the world building is generally good but the ambient dialogue progression on the Nexus was atrocious. I saved the Asari ark first but people are still going on about it after the epilogue when both of the other arks have been found. And I just wanted them to shut up about those bloody strawberries. It would be interesting to know if it was a bug. I thought it was just poorly designed.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 17:54:22 GMT
Aliens will always be humanoid. This is simply a matter of consistency in gameplay and art design, especially for a species that is part of combat. What you're asking for is unfeasible. Given that evolution is locally bound, if you had no issues with humanoid aliens in the trilogy then you shouldn't have issues with the ones in Andromeda. Well, let's say that it's unfeasible for more than a few alien species to be non-humanoid. We did get a couple of non-humanoid species in the trilogy, although only the rachni are combatants
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Post by Debaser on Mar 28, 2017 17:55:23 GMT
No comment? Does that mean everyone agrees, or that I should start talking about gay representation. I've heard that's a super-important problem... The tone of the game is far too cheery and optimistic for the situation the Arks are in, and that hamstrings the writing in a lot of places, but some of it is just awful no matter what... but you pretty much hit the nail on the head with all your points. I thought the VA wasn't that bad the camera angles and animations really hurt the VA, but some characters like Gil seem like they're reading directly from a script. Suvi's accent was a bit too much too, but overall from the inner circle at least I thought the VA was pretty good considering the limitations by the setting/writing. All the other VA is pretty hit or miss. Sloane was the weirdest to me her VA didn't match her badass Pirate Traitor Warlord Exile persona she had been given/built up.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 28, 2017 18:01:34 GMT
In general the lore got fucked in this game and it's basically just Star Wars or more like Star Wars now. All the science and space-travel lore they could come up with was taken from their ESA sponsorship. Everything you read regarding space pioneering in the 22nd century in this game refers to "ESA this & that". They also did not know only 1% of the Milky Way was explored by ME1 I don't think. That'swhat happens when Mac is the creative director. He's a hack. He keeps putting up smokescreens to hide the fact that he knows jack shit about what he is doing. In fact, I think the Spender-mission on the Nexus is about BW Montreal's suspicion of Mac Walters being a hack. Maybe that's why Ann Lemay (Drack's writer) left? ooooh, conspiracy!
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Post by mrtijger on Mar 28, 2017 18:02:10 GMT
No comment? Does that mean everyone agrees, or that I should start talking about gay representation. I've heard that's a super-important problem... The tone of the game is far too cheery and optimistic for the situation the Arks are in, and that hamstrings the writing in a lot of places, but some of it is just awful no matter what... but you pretty much hit the nail on the head with all your points. I thought the VA wasn't that bad the camera angles and animations really hurt the VA, but some characters like Gil, for example, seem like they're reading directly from a script, but overall from the inner circle at least I thought the VA was pretty good. All the other VA is pretty hit or miss. Sloane, for example, was the weirdest to me her VA didn't match her badass Pirate Traitor Warlord Exile persona she had been given/built up. Not sure I agree the tone is optimistic, definitely not at the start because everything is simply gone to hell in a handbasket. When you arrive with the Hyperion its the first good news in a year of misery for the Nexus and you get there with some serious downsides too, ie a dead Pathfinder and an untrained replacement. You turn that around by doing what the Pathfinders were created to do, finding solutions and re-starting colonization, of course that makes things more hopeful, it would be odd if the game started at the lowest tide and stayed there, that wouldnt exactly make for much of a game experience either.
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Post by Debaser on Mar 28, 2017 18:02:12 GMT
Is my game bugged? I always hear about those damn strawberries or 'Should I take a spot in the outpost?' even when I go back to Eos and the other planets I get the same recycled ambient dialogue. Possibly. There are quite a few bugs in dialogue progression. Also I don't think they "save" so if you don't hear an ambient dialogue at the appropriate time, you'll lose it when another event is triggered. Hopefully, that is the case and it is patched.. I had Jaal spoiled for me through an email from Liam. I was like what the hell is Angora and who the hell is Jaal.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 28, 2017 18:06:17 GMT
Worldbuilding? Uh...what's that?Which brings me to the worldbuilding. Which is, in my opinion, MEA's worst feature by a very big margin. Did *anyone* actually think about making the world interesting and consistent? Humanoid aliens again? With primary enemies looking like barely-masked copies of the MET's protheans/collectors and your first potential ally species taken right out of the SW universe? And of course they're also humanoid. And that's just the boring parts, don't get me started about the annoying ones. There we have this giant robotic thing we have to deactivate in a mission on a planet. It is a robot and it has, by its name, a clearly designated technical task. OK, good. It also looks like a Thresher Maw made of metallic parts with three legs added. Not really inspiring, but....OK. Then....it proceeds to roar like an angry Thresher Maw. WTF?????? Believe me, things that strike you as "just wrong" in similar ways are a regular occurence. Here's another one: Pebee says the Milky Way was "so been there, done that. Well, not I, but someone did". Well....no. By the old Codex, the Milky Way was 97% unexplored and would've had enough unexplored space for a hundred plots like that of MEA. We all know why we are in Andromeda, and I don't have a problem with it, but characters need a plausible in-world motivation. Whoever wrote Pebee here clearly didn't have the faintest idea of what was plausible. It would've been better to omit saying anything at all. I mean, it isn't as if such motivation would be hard to conceive of, right? And another one: I had some talk with a character I've forgotten about how they scanned the Heleus cluster from the MW. I got some very convoluted explanation about what amounted to FTL scanning with geth tech. FTL scanning was impossible under the MEU's technical paradigm but I might've gone along with it had it solved an important problem. Well....that wasn't the case at all. It solved a non-existing problem. Planets, my dear writers, as a rule don't change that much in a million years or two that their viability is affected. So if you scanned this place from two million light-years away and got, as usual, two-million-year-old information. you actually could expect the planets to be still viable when you arrived 650 years later. They did change, but that was for non-natural reasons, which is explained well enough and part of the plot. Congratulations, you compromised your world's integrity for no reason at all. Epic fail. If Heleus had already been settle by space flight civilization or civilizations, the game would have been something much more interesting. The native species could be something similar to the citadel council, and they would have their own politics, agenda and attitude toward new comers. It would have been interesting to explore what it is like to settle into someone else's backyard. You get the setting right and story writes itself. First Act could revolve around gaining at least the trust of one faction of natives so we get a few crappy planet to settle on. Some native are welcoming, some are hostile, and most are just apprehensive. The quest could be getting x% support among the ruling council so that we get a new home. Act II deals with how to get colony started and prosper, making alliances and friends, as well as enemies. Instead of exploring one section of 4 or 5 planets, the exploration could be focused on exploring 3 or 4 sections of 1 planet. Don't forget that you can have deserts, ocean, jungle and frozen tundra ONE single planet (like earth). Xenophobic terrorist could be the enemies we fight through out the game. Act III deals with the consequences of new comers upsetting the existing balance of power, and the choices made in ACT 1 and 2 comes into play. Basically the structure of Dragon Age II, with better execution. The time skip mechanic would mesh very well with Andromeda if they had wrote the game that way.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 28, 2017 18:06:42 GMT
Aliens will always be humanoid. This is simply a matter of consistency in gameplay and art design, especially for a species that is part of combat. What you're asking for is unfeasible. Given that evolution is locally bound, if you had no issues with humanoid aliens in the trilogy then you shouldn't have issues with the ones in Andromeda. Well, let's say that it's unfeasible for more than a few alien species to be non-humanoid. We did get a couple of non-humanoid species in the trilogy, although only the rachni are combatants Sure but those were around the entire Milky Way galaxy so the number of aliens with a few being non-humanoid was sensible. Given that we're operating in one cluster, having more than two alien species is already a bit of a stretch. The only "two" new alien types being humanoids is a consequence of the scope of the game.
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Post by Debaser on Mar 28, 2017 18:07:47 GMT
The tone of the game is far too cheery and optimistic for the situation the Arks are in, and that hamstrings the writing in a lot of places, but some of it is just awful no matter what... but you pretty much hit the nail on the head with all your points. I thought the VA wasn't that bad the camera angles and animations really hurt the VA, but some characters like Gil, for example, seem like they're reading directly from a script, but overall from the inner circle at least I thought the VA was pretty good. All the other VA is pretty hit or miss. Sloane, for example, was the weirdest to me her VA didn't match her badass Pirate Traitor Warlord Exile persona she had been given/built up. Not sure I agree the tone is optimistic, definitely not at the start because everything is simply gone to hell in a handbasket. When you arrive with the Hyperion its the first good news in a year of misery for the Nexus and you get there with some serious downsides too, ie a dead Pathfinder and an untrained replacement. You turn that around by doing what the Pathfinders were created to do, finding solutions and re-starting colonization, of course that makes things more hopeful, it would be odd if the game started at the lowest tide and stayed there, that wouldnt exactly make for much of a game experience either. After Eos, I felt the main story missions are pretty much 'rah rah rah we're gonna kick their asses and figure this stuff we have no clue about by shooting from the hip and winging it, also let me fit in a laugh reel one liner before we move onto the next scene.'.
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Post by zaeedisking on Mar 28, 2017 18:12:02 GMT
a hack. Maybe that's why Ann Lemay (Drack's writer) left? ooooh, conspiracy! I'm no conspiracy guy but I will say Drack is the only squadmate I enjoyed banter/dialogue wise... there were even a few times I let out a laugh after something he said. I can't say that about any other squadmate... Kallo is not really a close second, but he had some moments. Did anyone else feel like the Krogan really got the shaft in MEA? They seem smaller design wise and not as feared and appropriately represented here as they were in the OT. These guys basically could have run the Milky Way if it wasn't for the Geno. The Kett wouldn't stand a chance against the Krogan if these two went head to head.
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Post by mrtijger on Mar 28, 2017 18:14:04 GMT
Not sure I agree the tone is optimistic, definitely not at the start because everything is simply gone to hell in a handbasket. When you arrive with the Hyperion its the first good news in a year of misery for the Nexus and you get there with some serious downsides too, ie a dead Pathfinder and an untrained replacement. You turn that around by doing what the Pathfinders were created to do, finding solutions and re-starting colonization, of course that makes things more hopeful, it would be odd if the game started at the lowest tide and stayed there, that wouldnt exactly make for much of a game experience either. After Eos, I felt the main story missions are pretty 'rah rah rah we're gonna kick their asses and figure this stuff we have no clue about by shooting from the hip and winging it, also let me fit in a laugh reel one liner before we move onto the next scene.' Human nature and the role of the Pathfinder explain that pretty easily, I think. People travelled for 600 years to build a new life and when they finally get a chance to do so they're going to be optimistic, otherwise they'd never have gone on a trip like that. Also, it doesnt really work if the Pathfinder is all doom and gloom about the future, now does it? If you wanted a dystopian "everything is going to hell and we're all going to die" story then I think you chose the wrong game.
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Post by Debaser on Mar 28, 2017 18:23:55 GMT
After Eos, I felt the main story missions are pretty 'rah rah rah we're gonna kick their asses and figure this stuff we have no clue about by shooting from the hip and winging it, also let me fit in a laugh reel one liner before we move onto the next scene.' Human nature and the role of the Pathfinder explain that pretty easily, I think. People travelled for 600 years to build a new life and when they finally get a chance to do so they're going to be optimistic, otherwise they'd never have gone on a trip like that. Also, it doesnt really work if the Pathfinder is all doom and gloom about the future, now does it? If you wanted a dystopian "everything is going to hell and we're all going to die" story then I think you chose the wrong game. I prefer happy/light hearted stories to the grittier/dark ones, but Andromeda's writing usually just comes off cheesy to me and not inspiring.
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 28, 2017 18:27:31 GMT
Is this good or not? Well.... yes and no. Observations: First, I have to say that this theme of exploration and colonization works for me. Which is nice, since I had serious problems with the dominant themes of the MET and how they were presented to us. This time, I'm ok with going along without, so far, any major criticisms. In this aspect alone, mind you. MEA and ME1MEA occasionally reminds me of ME1. I'm exploring, often in a vehicle so very reminiscent of the Mako, on new worlds which have their own aesthetic appeal and identity, occasionally picking up stuff, random and not so random, investigating odd structures etc.. The mining is extremely inefficient compared to other ways to gather minerals, and I suspect we'll have fewer such worlds than I'd prefer in the end, but all in all this is really nice. The world is also almost as seamless as ME1's was, so your sense of place is mostly intact. The world, however, continues to appear small, something I've also held against the MET. Movement between locations simply doesn't matter much. Poof, you're there. I think this is inappropriate but more about that in the worldbuilding section. MEA and DAIMEA also occasionally reminds me of DAI. Unfortunately, the first such aspect that comes to mind is not one DAI's better parts but one of its worst: collection tasks. Exploration on planets often does unveil interesting stuff, but it also unlocks a set of collection tasks like "find these 6 broken drones" or "place scanners at these 6 locations". These are optional, but there are far too many of them, and they clutter up the journal and the maps with icons which suggest something signficant but only point at chores you'd rather be done with as fast as possible. There are also collection tasks featuring unmarked sites placed partly in excessively hard-to-access areas, of which I managed to complete not a single one so far, since I suspect the reward in no way justifies the effort - even if it was just with a really nice view, for while the scenery has its appeal, it in no way approaches the impact of DAI's landscapes. In the emotional impact of its landscapes, MEA even stays behind ME1, even though obviously, the visuals are way more technically advanced. Also, why does simply going to specific places increase planet viability? That makes no sense. The secondary mission system where you send teams out is a straight copy of DAI's wartable mission system, as is the system of leveling up the Nexus, but with far less groundwork in lore. Such a system does not work well in an environment you do not already know, and "leveling up the Nexus" is insufficiently explained. The system works and I use it, but as opposed to DAI, it doesn't add significantly to the experience. Worldbuilding? Uh...what's that? Which brings me to the worldbuilding. Which is, in my opinion, MEA's worst feature by a very big margin. Did *anyone* actually think about making the world interesting and consistent? Humanoid aliens again? With primary enemies looking like barely-masked copies of the MET's protheans/collectors and your first potential ally species taken right out of the SW universe? And of course they're also humanoid. And that's just the boring parts, don't get me started about the annoying ones. There we have this giant robotic thing we have to deactivate in a mission on a planet. It is a robot and it has, by its name, a clearly designated technical task. OK, good. It also looks like a Thresher Maw made of metallic parts with three legs added. Not really inspiring, but....OK. Then....it proceeds to roar like an angry Thresher Maw. WTF?????? Believe me, things that strike you as "just wrong" in similar ways are a regular occurence.
Here's another one: Pebee says the Milky Way was "so been there, done that. Well, not I, but someone did". Well....no. By the old Codex, the Milky Way was 97% unexplored and would've had enough unexplored space for a hundred plots like that of MEA. We all know why we are in Andromeda, and I don't have a problem with it, but characters need a plausible in-world motivation. Whoever wrote Pebee here clearly didn't have the faintest idea of what was plausible. It would've been better to omit saying anything at all. I mean, it isn't as if such motivation would be hard to conceive of, right?
And another one: I had some talk with a character I've forgotten about how they scanned the Heleus cluster from the MW. I got some very convoluted explanation about what amounted to FTL scanning with geth tech. FTL scanning was impossible under the MEU's technical paradigm but I might've gone along with it had it solved an important problem. Well....that wasn't the case at all. It solved a non-existing problem. Planets, my dear writers, as a rule don't change that much in a million years or two that their viability is affected. So if you scanned this place from two million light-years away and got, as usual, two-million-year-old information. you actually could expect the planets to be still viable when you arrived 650 years later. They did change, but that was for non-natural reasons, which is explained well enough and part of the plot. Congratulations, you compromised your world's integrity for no reason at all. Epic fail.
Should I go on? With how the skies change immediately after you do some important stuff on a planet and it immediately becomes 50% more viable? This was awful in "Total Recall" and it isn't any better here. An enforced delay of, say, a hundred more years in cryo-sleep would've added a nice SF aspect to the plot, but no, we can't have that. It must all be as everyone's living in the same city, how else could the moron players ever understand what happening? Or wasn't it the supposed player's incapability of understanding, but rather the writers? "SF writers don't have a sense of scale" is a trope supposedly widespread, but most of them, judging from the books I read, make at least a token attempt to make things plausible. MEA? Nope. Nothing at all. Not that I find this all that surprising, since apparently the only writer ever employed by Bioware for the MEU who cared about such things left in the middle of making ME2.
And another one: has anyone thought of a plausible placement of these memory thingies we need to unlock Ryder's past? I mean, well, it's obviously completely plausible to find one on a world neither you nor your father nor the AI has ever been. If it was *my* memory, I could justify it, after all memory triggers can be odd, but it's an AI's memory that, to top it all off, was purposefully hidden from me. That makes no sense at all.
I just hope that the explanation of the Remnant retains some plausbility. Writing and VA:...have a disparate quality. While the main interaction scenes with major characters, while not exactly on the level of most of the MET, are done reasonably well in most cases, much of the rest is....sorry, there's no way to say this politely....uninspired, bland, generic, cheesy, campy, childish, boring, groan-worthily predictable and bare of anything that would engage you intellectually or emotionally. Among other things, I'm thoroughly sick of family stuff. As if there wasn't anything more interesting to have a conflict about in a new galaxy. As if that wasn't enough, many characters seem to read their lines from teleprompters as they appear with no sense of context. Having said that, while this level of writing is ubiquitous outside the main character interaction scenes, it doesn't have all that much of an impact once you're back from your first planet mission. And resigned to it. After all, ME's writing was always full of cheap drama and contrived emotion only loosely grounded in lore, with some notable exceptions that carried much of the stories alone. Minor annoyances:
I've already written enough for one post so I'll make this short: several aspects of the game, as a game, aren't up the standards I expect from a game that cost me 70€. Coming from TW3's and DXMD's smooth movement to MEA feels like a step 10 years back. In fact, MEA's movement reminds me of KOTOR's movement when it first came out. I replayed it last year, and it didn't feel significantly different now. It's as if they're still using the same code as then (yeah, I know that can't be). Here's a minor example: when you activate your Witcher sense in TW3, you can't climb or jump. When you activate your scanner in MEA, you also can't climb or jump. In principle, no problem at all, but there's a difference: in MEA you can't walk up steps while scanning (or at least some steps, I don't know what the conditions are), so that for instance, a 10cm step up to a platform stops you from moving, and you have to switch off the scanner and jump. That the mantle-up function is so finicky in its requirements that it's basically useless doesn't help. Add the animations and some characters' pasty faces. I guess that's a well-known complaint by now, but it's not less significant for being "just" an aesthetic feature. There is more but I have to stop now. The overall picture that emerges for me is a game that works overall, but at the same time, annoys me so often and so thoroughly that it has a significant impact on my enjoyment. I'm really tired of bringing TW3 in as a counterexample, but if you've played that, it is clearly recognizeable how much more thought went into TW3's smallest detail. Maybe it's a budget problem, but I'm hearing MEA cost 40 million. Where did all that go? Thinking about how you can make your character presets more ugly? Very well said, especially the highlighted portion about the world building. Humanoid aliens, who are practically humans in rubber masks considering how they are immediately relatable to us and our customs, (especially the Angarans) just feels really lazy; like you said:"Something torn out of the Star Wars universe". I understand that humanoid animation rigs and the like are more conductive from a video game development standpoint, but even then why is it that every form of sentient life in Andromeda has to act and think exactly like us? In our very first foray into the Mass Effect universe we managed to not only have non-humanoid aliens present in the setting, but also had them as intelligent creatures with their own way of perceiving things. The Rachni, the Thorian, the Hanar, and the Elcor all had a level of appreciable nuance to them in addition to not defaulting to the cookie cutter bipedal humanoid form. And the disappointing thing is: Andromeda has a lot of potential in this regard just lying around but it refuses to do anything with it. For example: there's an insect species on Eros that is just regulated to mindless wildlife for the player to kill; in fact they don't even have their own codex entry. Why were't they used for anything? I mean, sure they'd potentially be retreading the same ground they did with the Rachni; but then that hasn't stopped them from doing it with other aspects of the narrative; at the very least it would be something different as opposed to having more human(iod)s running around. In regards to the Remnant, they feel rather under utilized outside of being a McGuffin. Now granted, I've only made it to Voeld in my play through, but the game seems to be rather intent on utilizing the Remnant and their structures as part of a quasi fetch quest rather than actually trying to explain them. All I know is that they are super advanced, and that they liked using sudoku as a key to unlock their facilities. There's nothing substantially 'alien' about them aside from the fact that the game refuses to go into detail about them, and in doing so try to preserve a sense of mystery surrounding their purpose. In fact, what little is speculated about them points to their creators as being another humanoid alien; going off of the ergonomics and design of their consoles. All the other points about UI, animations, and quality of life issues in the various mechanics are minor annoyances compared to my feelings on the writing and lack of truly alien elements to the game.
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Kabraxal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 28, 2017 18:28:39 GMT
After Eos, I felt the main story missions are pretty 'rah rah rah we're gonna kick their asses and figure this stuff we have no clue about by shooting from the hip and winging it, also let me fit in a laugh reel one liner before we move onto the next scene.' Human nature and the role of the Pathfinder explain that pretty easily, I think. People travelled for 600 years to build a new life and when they finally get a chance to do so they're going to be optimistic, otherwise they'd never have gone on a trip like that. Also, it doesnt really work if the Pathfinder is all doom and gloom about the future, now does it? If you wanted a dystopian "everything is going to hell and we're all going to die" story then I think you chose the wrong game. And one thing Bioware harped on continuosly is that Andromeda was going to be more light hearted. So that criticism seems strange and honestly one I'm tired of hearing since the entertainment market is flooded with grim darkness.
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Post by Ieldra on Mar 28, 2017 18:46:32 GMT
Human nature and the role of the Pathfinder explain that pretty easily, I think. People travelled for 600 years to build a new life and when they finally get a chance to do so they're going to be optimistic, otherwise they'd never have gone on a trip like that. Also, it doesnt really work if the Pathfinder is all doom and gloom about the future, now does it? If you wanted a dystopian "everything is going to hell and we're all going to die" story then I think you chose the wrong game. And one thing Bioware harped on continuosly is that Andromeda was going to be more light hearted. So that criticism seems strange and honestly one I'm tired of hearing since the entertainment market is flooded with grim darkness. I don't mind the optimism. It's a welcome change from ME3 (where the doom and gloom was appropriate but that doesn't mean I had to like it). That, and the pessism some people expressed at the start of the game, felt quite ok with me. Having said that, the tone that most appealed to me was DAO's. It was somewhat dark, but not pessimistic.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 28, 2017 19:04:08 GMT
No comment? Does that mean everyone agrees, or that I should start talking about gay representation. I've heard that's a super-important problem... There's nothing you've said that's already been debated ad nauseum.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 28, 2017 19:04:52 GMT
Human nature and the role of the Pathfinder explain that pretty easily, I think. People travelled for 600 years to build a new life and when they finally get a chance to do so they're going to be optimistic, otherwise they'd never have gone on a trip like that. Also, it doesnt really work if the Pathfinder is all doom and gloom about the future, now does it? If you wanted a dystopian "everything is going to hell and we're all going to die" story then I think you chose the wrong game. And one thing Bioware harped on continuosly is that Andromeda was going to be more light hearted. So that criticism seems strange and honestly one I'm tired of hearing since the entertainment market is flooded with grim darkness. Yeah I'm getting a little sick of darkness.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 28, 2017 19:06:25 GMT
Is this good or not? Well.... yes and no. Observations: First, I have to say that this theme of exploration and colonization works for me. Which is nice, since I had serious problems with the dominant themes of the MET and how they were presented to us. This time, I'm ok with going along without, so far, any major criticisms. In this aspect alone, mind you. MEA and ME1MEA occasionally reminds me of ME1. I'm exploring, often in a vehicle so very reminiscent of the Mako, on new worlds which have their own aesthetic appeal and identity, occasionally picking up stuff, random and not so random, investigating odd structures etc.. The mining is extremely inefficient compared to other ways to gather minerals, and I suspect we'll have fewer such worlds than I'd prefer in the end, but all in all this is really nice. The world is also almost as seamless as ME1's was, so your sense of place is mostly intact. The world, however, continues to appear small, something I've also held against the MET. Movement between locations simply doesn't matter much. Poof, you're there. I think this is inappropriate but more about that in the worldbuilding section. MEA and DAIMEA also occasionally reminds me of DAI. Unfortunately, the first such aspect that comes to mind is not one DAI's better parts but one of its worst: collection tasks. Exploration on planets often does unveil interesting stuff, but it also unlocks a set of collection tasks like "find these 6 broken drones" or "place scanners at these 6 locations". These are optional, but there are far too many of them, and they clutter up the journal and the maps with icons which suggest something signficant but only point at chores you'd rather be done with as fast as possible. There are also collection tasks featuring unmarked sites placed partly in excessively hard-to-access areas, of which I managed to complete not a single one so far, since I suspect the reward in no way justifies the effort - even if it was just with a really nice view, for while the scenery has its appeal, it in no way approaches the impact of DAI's landscapes. In the emotional impact of its landscapes, MEA even stays behind ME1, even though obviously, the visuals are way more technically advanced. Also, why does simply going to specific places increase planet viability? That makes no sense. The secondary mission system where you send teams out is a straight copy of DAI's wartable mission system, as is the system of leveling up the Nexus, but with far less groundwork in lore. Such a system does not work well in an environment you do not already know, and "leveling up the Nexus" is insufficiently explained. The system works and I use it, but as opposed to DAI, it doesn't add significantly to the experience. Worldbuilding? Uh...what's that? Which brings me to the worldbuilding. Which is, in my opinion, MEA's worst feature by a very big margin. Did *anyone* actually think about making the world interesting and consistent? Humanoid aliens again? With primary enemies looking like barely-masked copies of the MET's protheans/collectors and your first potential ally species taken right out of the SW universe? And of course they're also humanoid. And that's just the boring parts, don't get me started about the annoying ones. There we have this giant robotic thing we have to deactivate in a mission on a planet. It is a robot and it has, by its name, a clearly designated technical task. OK, good. It also looks like a Thresher Maw made of metallic parts with three legs added. Not really inspiring, but....OK. Then....it proceeds to roar like an angry Thresher Maw. WTF?????? Believe me, things that strike you as "just wrong" in similar ways are a regular occurence.
Here's another one: Pebee says the Milky Way was "so been there, done that. Well, not I, but someone did". Well....no. By the old Codex, the Milky Way was 97% unexplored and would've had enough unexplored space for a hundred plots like that of MEA. We all know why we are in Andromeda, and I don't have a problem with it, but characters need a plausible in-world motivation. Whoever wrote Pebee here clearly didn't have the faintest idea of what was plausible. It would've been better to omit saying anything at all. I mean, it isn't as if such motivation would be hard to conceive of, right?
And another one: I had some talk with a character I've forgotten about how they scanned the Heleus cluster from the MW. I got some very convoluted explanation about what amounted to FTL scanning with geth tech. FTL scanning was impossible under the MEU's technical paradigm but I might've gone along with it had it solved an important problem. Well....that wasn't the case at all. It solved a non-existing problem. Planets, my dear writers, as a rule don't change that much in a million years or two that their viability is affected. So if you scanned this place from two million light-years away and got, as usual, two-million-year-old information. you actually could expect the planets to be still viable when you arrived 650 years later. They did change, but that was for non-natural reasons, which is explained well enough and part of the plot. Congratulations, you compromised your world's integrity for no reason at all. Epic fail.
Should I go on? With how the skies change immediately after you do some important stuff on a planet and it immediately becomes 50% more viable? This was awful in "Total Recall" and it isn't any better here. An enforced delay of, say, a hundred more years in cryo-sleep would've added a nice SF aspect to the plot, but no, we can't have that. It must all be as everyone's living in the same city, how else could the moron players ever understand what happening? Or wasn't it the supposed player's incapability of understanding, but rather the writers? "SF writers don't have a sense of scale" is a trope supposedly widespread, but most of them, judging from the books I read, make at least a token attempt to make things plausible. MEA? Nope. Nothing at all. Not that I find this all that surprising, since apparently the only writer ever employed by Bioware for the MEU who cared about such things left in the middle of making ME2.
And another one: has anyone thought of a plausible placement of these memory thingies we need to unlock Ryder's past? I mean, well, it's obviously completely plausible to find one on a world neither you nor your father nor the AI has ever been. If it was *my* memory, I could justify it, after all memory triggers can be odd, but it's an AI's memory that, to top it all off, was purposefully hidden from me. That makes no sense at all.
I just hope that the explanation of the Remnant retains some plausbility. Writing and VA:...have a disparate quality. While the main interaction scenes with major characters, while not exactly on the level of most of the MET, are done reasonably well in most cases, much of the rest is....sorry, there's no way to say this politely....uninspired, bland, generic, cheesy, campy, childish, boring, groan-worthily predictable and bare of anything that would engage you intellectually or emotionally. Among other things, I'm thoroughly sick of family stuff. As if there wasn't anything more interesting to have a conflict about in a new galaxy. As if that wasn't enough, many characters seem to read their lines from teleprompters as they appear with no sense of context. Having said that, while this level of writing is ubiquitous outside the main character interaction scenes, it doesn't have all that much of an impact once you're back from your first planet mission. And resigned to it. After all, ME's writing was always full of cheap drama and contrived emotion only loosely grounded in lore, with some notable exceptions that carried much of the stories alone. Minor annoyances:
I've already written enough for one post so I'll make this short: several aspects of the game, as a game, aren't up the standards I expect from a game that cost me 70€. Coming from TW3's and DXMD's smooth movement to MEA feels like a step 10 years back. In fact, MEA's movement reminds me of KOTOR's movement when it first came out. I replayed it last year, and it didn't feel significantly different now. It's as if they're still using the same code as then (yeah, I know that can't be). Here's a minor example: when you activate your Witcher sense in TW3, you can't climb or jump. When you activate your scanner in MEA, you also can't climb or jump. In principle, no problem at all, but there's a difference: in MEA you can't walk up steps while scanning (or at least some steps, I don't know what the conditions are), so that for instance, a 10cm step up to a platform stops you from moving, and you have to switch off the scanner and jump. That the mantle-up function is so finicky in its requirements that it's basically useless doesn't help. Add the animations and some characters' pasty faces. I guess that's a well-known complaint by now, but it's not less significant for being "just" an aesthetic feature. There is more but I have to stop now. The overall picture that emerges for me is a game that works overall, but at the same time, annoys me so often and so thoroughly that it has a significant impact on my enjoyment. I'm really tired of bringing TW3 in as a counterexample, but if you've played that, it is clearly recognizeable how much more thought went into TW3's smallest detail. Maybe it's a budget problem, but I'm hearing MEA cost 40 million. Where did all that go? Thinking about how you can make your character presets more ugly? Very well said, especially the highlighted portion about the world building. Humanoid aliens, who are practically humans in rubber masks considering how they are immediately relatable to us and our customs, (especially the Angarans) just feels really lazy; like you said:"Something torn out of the Star Wars universe". I understand that humanoid animation rigs and the like are more conductive from a video game development standpoint, but even then why is it that every form of sentient life in Andromeda has to act and think exactly like us? In our very first foray into the Mass Effect universe we managed to not only have non-humanoid aliens present in the setting, but also had them as intelligent creatures with their own way of perceiving things. The Rachni, the Thorian, the Hanar, and the Elcor all had a level of appreciable nuance to them in addition to not defaulting to the cookie cutter bipedal humanoid form. And the disappointing thing is: Andromeda has a lot of potential in this regard just lying around but it refuses to do anything with it. For example: there's an insect species on Eros that is just regulated to mindless wildlife for the player to kill; in fact they don't even have their own codex entry. Why were't they used for anything? I mean, sure they'd potentially be retreading the same ground they did with the Rachni; but then that hasn't stopped them from doing it with other aspects of the narrative; at the very least it would be something different as opposed to having more human(iod)s running around. In regards to the Remnant, they feel rather under utilized outside of being a McGuffin. Now granted, I've only made it to Voeld in my play through, but the game seems to be rather intent on utilizing the Remnant and their structures as part of a quasi fetch quest rather than actually trying to explain them. All I know is that they are super advanced, and that they liked using sudoku as a key to unlock their facilities. There's nothing substantially 'alien' about them aside from the fact that the game refuses to go into detail about them, and in doing so try to preserve a sense of mystery surrounding their purpose. In fact, what little is speculated about them points to their creators as being another humanoid alien; going off of the ergonomics and design of their consoles. All the other points about UI, animations, and quality of life issues in the various mechanics are minor annoyances compared to my feelings on the writing and lack of truly alien elements to the game. I'm not very far in the game, but I think the Remnant will play a huge role in future titles. The game seems to building up.
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Post by Ieldra on Mar 28, 2017 19:28:24 GMT
I'm not very far in the game, but I think the Remnant will play a huge role in future titles. The game seems to building up. I certainly hope they've made it interesting. It's the one thing that keeps me following the plot rather than just going through the motions to the end. If it's just another "their tech got the better of them" plot, I'll scream.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 20:03:04 GMT
Isn't it a mistake to expect anything but "forehead aliens" from Mass Effect? The series was always more of a tribute to TV sci-fi than any sort of serious hard SF.
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