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Post by Wintermist on Mar 29, 2017 21:37:07 GMT
If BioWare could tone down the extremes, and especially fix the eyes, it would do a LOT for the game I think. Eyes especially, the pupils is something I said before, I think they look like someone who's on drugs, the pupils are huge in some cases. Either way, pretty good video I feel, and perhaps BioWare could tone the stuff down a bit and really get a significant effect from that alone.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 29, 2017 22:17:27 GMT
If you really need someone to point out why you subconsciously don't like the animations, I agree, he explains it well. Otherwise DUH. It's the eye-region of the faces that are both not modeled properly and not animated well at all. Specifically there is absolutely something wrong with the texturing of the iris and even stuff like diffuse mapping on the eyes. Every time you see a character's face their eyes stick out in how white and flat they look. In a normal human eye the iris is also technically layered underneath the eyeball between a wall called the cornea. I know especially in the past eyes were textured with the iris on the outside but unless I'm mistaken they worked around this in all previous BioWare games after KOTOR including Mass Effect 1 so that the iris isn't laid out across the 3D sphere, but seemingly lies flat within it. Say you have an eye texture and an eye model If you just put the iris texture on top you get an iris that appears stretched because it's just painted on top of the eyeball ...But what you really want is a layered eyeball where it somehow simulates the texture being inside the eye. This can still be done if the iris texture is put on top of the 3D eyeball model if you shape the texture right. I don't think Andromeda partiuclarly does this. But look at ME1. I'm not completely sure the eye-texturing itself is any different in the fact that the iris texture is put on top of the 3D model but either the diffuse or specular mapping, or simply Unreal engine's lighting engine makes the eye have more depth. That alone makes the characters look much more natural. It looks like the eye is actually inside the eye-socket and the eye does not look like a ball of glass.
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#SaveTheQuarians
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by phnx on Mar 29, 2017 22:51:41 GMT
Nice find! BW should definitely watch this!
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jli84
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Post by jli84 on Mar 30, 2017 15:33:30 GMT
I've found that the animations don't correspond well with mouth size and placement. If you can find the sweetspot it seems to get alot better. I just started another game with the same look as before. Only changes I made was to lower the mouth one click and widen it two or three clicks. I might be imagening things, but I feel there is a significant difference. Here's a pic of my new Ryder at the exact same spot as the picture for OPs linked video. I think this looks way better: With default Sara you can't really tell if she's in pain or grinning... Edit: sadly I have no pic of this from my previous save (before alterations of the mouth)
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Post by LFS on Mar 30, 2017 15:50:29 GMT
I've found that the animations don't correspond well with mouth size and placement. If you can find the sweetspot it seems to get alot better. I just started another game with the same look as before. Only changes I made was to lower the mouth one click and widen it two or three clicks. I might be imagening things, but I feel there is a significant difference. I found the same thing to be true. I started the game over about 5 times on launch night trying to find a good balance. For me, the problem was the lower portion of the face feeling too squished together, and it made the mouth animations that much worse. Extending the chin, bringing down the mouth and fiddling with the mouth width (in my case, also bringing that in a little bit) mitigated a great deal of the awkwardness--at least to the point that it doesn't bother me at all 90% of the time, and the WTF moments are just funny. Edit: chin chin mouth mouth chin mouth stupid brain.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 30, 2017 15:55:44 GMT
I've found that the animations don't correspond well with mouth size and placement. If you can find the sweetspot it seems to get alot better. I just started another game with the same look as before. Only changes I made was to lower the mouth one click and widen it two or three clicks. I might be imagening things, but I feel there is a significant difference. I found the same thing to be true. I started the game over about 5 times on launch night trying to find a good balance. For me, the problem was the lower portion of the face feeling too squished together, and it made the mouth animations that much worse. Extending the chin, bringing down the chin and fiddling with the mouth width (in my case, also bringing that in a little bit) mitigated a great deal of the awkwardness--at least to the point that it doesn't bother me at all 90% of the time, and the WTF moments are just funny. This is exactly what I did. I didn't care for how short the character's faces were and I prefer having more chin to frame the face. With that and reducing mouth depth I'd say my Sara is largely resistent to a fair amount of the animation shenanigans.
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Post by Cannibal on Mar 30, 2017 16:03:18 GMT
Another video using default Sara has a reference point. Yawn.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: Jberry0410
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Post by joglee on Mar 30, 2017 16:05:27 GMT
Why didn't everyone bitch about Fallout 4s horrible animations and faces.
Seriously that games horrible, which is why there's so many mods attempting to fix such things.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 16:47:33 GMT
Why didn't everyone bitch about Fallout 4s horrible animations and faces. Seriously that games horrible, which is why there's so many mods attempting to fix such things. Because Bethesda. Bethesda characters always look like garbage. There is never a vocal backlash over it because probably no one buys a Bethesda game for the characters. The selling point for Bethesda games is the open world sand box, rather than the mostly lifeless characters that inhabit it. ME:A is being held to stricter standards because Bioware's games are so character focused.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 30, 2017 17:14:10 GMT
Why didn't everyone bitch about Fallout 4s horrible animations and faces. Seriously that games horrible, which is why there's so many mods attempting to fix such things. Because Bethesda. Bethesda characters always look like garbage. There is never a vocal backlash over it because probably no one buys a Bethesda game for the characters. The selling point for Bethesda games is the open world sand box, rather than the mostly lifeless characters that inhabit it. ME:A is being held to stricter standards because Bioware's games are so character focused. ^^^ this. I've never went into a Bethesda game looking into their characters. It's about the open world feeling and doing whatever I want. Plus Bethesda is open and supports their modding community which will just fix it right up anyways (although I encourage Bethesda to never go with the approach "our modding community will fix it anyways so we'll just go halfway across the bridge on this one"). Bethesda at least puts more effort in their character creators too. I do have to also point out decent characters can be made even without the addition of modding, that's not the case with Andromeda if you ask me.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 30, 2017 17:58:31 GMT
But look at ME1. I'm not completely sure the eye-texturing itself is any different in the fact that the iris texture is put on top of the 3D model but either the diffuse or specular mapping, or simply Unreal engine's lighting engine makes the eye have more depth. Set Ambient Occlusion to max in MEA, this website has a section that shows the difference it makes at the eyeball level.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 30, 2017 19:03:40 GMT
It's kinda true but it can't save the closeups from sometimes having derpy eyes because the iris texturing looks slightly off.
That said I have noticed since switching from pc to PS4 that the reduced shader, lighting and HBAO on PS4 makes the game look extremely dated at times. It's not nearly as bad on PC. Particularly the rock formations on Kadara and the moon rock planet is just wholly underwhelming, especially because the latter gave me flashbacks to Destiny - a cross-gen game and 2014 game that looked WAAY better doing the exact same thing.
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Post by myztikrice on Mar 30, 2017 19:25:05 GMT
If you really need someone to point out why you subconsciously don't like the animations, I agree, he explains it well. Otherwise DUH. It's the eye-region of the faces that are both not modeled properly and not animated well at all. Specifically there is absolutely something wrong with the texturing of the iris and even stuff like diffuse mapping on the eyes. Every time you see a character's face their eyes stick out in how white and flat they look. In a normal human eye the iris is also technically layered underneath the eyeball between a wall called the cornea. I know especially in the past eyes were textured with the iris on the outside but unless I'm mistaken they worked around this in all previous BioWare games after KOTOR including Mass Effect 1 so that the iris isn't laid out across the 3D sphere, but seemingly lies flat within it. Say you have an eye texture and an eye model If you just put the iris texture on top you get an iris that appears stretched because it's just painted on top of the eyeball ...But what you really want is a layered eyeball where it somehow simulates the texture being inside the eye. This can still be done if the iris texture is put on top of the 3D eyeball model if you shape the texture right. I don't think Andromeda partiuclarly does this. But look at ME1. I'm not completely sure the eye-texturing itself is any different in the fact that the iris texture is put on top of the 3D model but either the diffuse or specular mapping, or simply Unreal engine's lighting engine makes the eye have more depth. That alone makes the characters look much more natural. It looks like the eye is actually inside the eye-socket and the eye does not look like a ball of glass. Knows more than the average person about eyes and how they're modeled in game, tells everyone 'duh it's the eyes!' like it's obvious
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 19:26:40 GMT
Oh man, this discussion never gets old. I like it. Every new video about this game, I get to laugh a little more. PS. Spot on video. Not that it wasn't obvious from the beginning, but still.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 30, 2017 19:28:18 GMT
Because I'm not an expert at all. I'm just observant and with all the hate and outcries about how bad the eyes are I'm really surprised there hasn't been more pointing out how weird the eyeball models themselves look. I've never touched an animation toolset in my life, but I feel like stuff such as texture-work is something a lot of game people would know about.
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