linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 1, 2017 21:16:01 GMT
Historian Liam Robertson, according to several sources he spoke to who work or have worked at BioWare, shed some light on Mass Effect: Andromeda. According to the sources from Robertson, BioWare apparently outsourced the facial animations to other teams in Electronic Arts. Per the article I just wrote: " The major problem that has arisen from this was the human character models and most alien characters were completely outsourced to other branches of EA. After initial scans were taken, they were shipped off to other studios. Robertson mentions one possible destination; EA Bucharest in Romania, although nothing is confirmed at this time.
EA often outsources work and animation to smaller studios, so such a move from EA’s side is not unusual as a cost-saving measure. For example, if EA Bucharest did receive the Mass Effect Andromeda animations, salaries and labor costs are significantly cheaper than in-house for BioWare. However, several sources told Robertson that they place the blame on the animation quality on BioWare’s management team, who chose to outsource almost all the work on human characters to other teams. One source, according to Robertson, believed that BioWare “put too much faith in the scanning tech” as it would not require too much additional face modeling for the outsourced team." A thing to note is that a lot of this is in-house issues, and the management team of BioWare is more or less responsible for things. Article is here which contains the video from Robertson posted today. I double checked, this is not an April Fools Joke (unless Robertson pulled my leg via email) but the basic point stands, if this is all true (and it might very well be, the outsourcing thing upon further investigation is a common thing) it does explain part of the problem. The other part of the problem is the BioWare management which seems to be the one who has shouldered the blame for the technical issues. Thoughts on this? This is not designed to be an attack on BioWare, but rather an interesting story that is beginning to take shape regarding the animations.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 1, 2017 21:22:50 GMT
That explains a lot but it still don't explain how a line like "my face is tired" got into the game.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 21:26:08 GMT
Was this the same for the original trilogy? Or is it something they introduced for MEA and are maybe regretting...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 21:30:43 GMT
That explains a lot but it still don't explain how a line like "my face is tired" got into the game. Maybe it was snuck in as a code to the outside world for help. 'Help my face animation team is tired, we worked too hard for little pay and are chained up in basement in Bucharest please help' but the translators were sourced from Bolivia so they only translated part of it.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 1, 2017 21:30:47 GMT
Was this the same for the original trilogy? Or is it something they introduced for MEA and are maybe regretting... My own research on this says this is an EA thing. A lot of their smaller studios like the mentioned EA Bucharest, as well as Guilford, Stockholm, and others do a lot of touch up development for big games. FIFA and Madden in particular are developed this way yearly, and sometimes other studios use them for touching up animations. This was possibly used for Mass Effect 3, which is why EA made the BioWare Montreal studio in 2009 for the spillover of work needed for that game in the trilogy.
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Post by hathur on Apr 1, 2017 22:02:17 GMT
Mass Effect 1 - 3 used a pretty well regarded Unreal 3 / 3.5 (and UE4 even now) plugin called FaceFx (made by a company called OC3 Entertainment or something if I recall). Unreal itself had no convenient semi-automated facial animations tools for a large number of faces, so this FaceFx plugin was extremely important for Bioware since it could do the bulk of the animation work and then animators simply had to go through it afterwards and make a few adjustments themselves.
The software was / is remarkably effective (I tinker as an amateur animator in Maya and have used it) so long as you aren't aiming for hyper realism.. but it's good at getting smooth and believable mouth and face movements down.
Unfortunately, MEA uses Frostbite and because it is a very closed system (EA only) and not open to mass market like UE3 / UE4, there are very few custom plugins / tools made or sold for it.. thus the developers are forced to either try to create their own tools (not easy when you're focused on making a game and don't want to shift resources on engine creation for a single toolset) or just clumsily brute force the animations by hand via human animators (this works fine in games that don't have hundreds of NPCs.. it's why the faces in a Battlefield game etc animate fine for the most part, they are all basically hand-animated since there aren't hundreds of characters in the story to be animated).
This is part of the reason why facial animations in the original trilogy seldom have jarring moments.. while they aren't cutting edge, they seldom ever go awry enough to make you recoil from the screen for a moment.. they simply had proper tools to work with whereas frostbite doesn't.
I strongly suspect that we would have had a somewhat more impressive game if Bioware wasn't forced to use Frostbite (EA will not allow their studios to use competing engines like UE4)... had they used UE4 they could have used something like the FaceFX plugin or others which would have reduced the workload and problems in regards to facial animation.. instead they had to use weaker or non existant tools and let outsourced animators try to make do with it.
Frostbite can do alright with facial animations (DAI was ok for the most part), but from what I've heard it is drastically less efficient and more cumbersome to work with vs other engines and their plugins... Frostbite is just too damn proprietary, and you can blame EA for that.
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Post by surelyforth on Apr 1, 2017 22:06:14 GMT
That explains a lot but it still don't explain how a line like "my face is tired" got into the game. I said this in another thread, but I'll say it here, too- "my face is tired" is a moderately weird thing to say but isn't nonsensical by any stretch. 1. "Face" is a sociological term referring to how we present ourselves to others in order to portray ourselves in a favorable light. You also use your face to communicate things via expressions. Like, that's basic. 2. Addison is under an immense amount of pressure to succeed in her position. Without colonies, they'll run out of resources. Without resources, the Nexus becomes their coffin. She's probably had to pretend things were better than they are to stave off panic. Hence, "putting on a face". 3. "My face is tired" is Addison's way of telling Ryder that she's not bothering to put on a self-aggrandizing front or a pleasant face for Ryder's benefit. 4. This isn't even the weirdest thing Addison says, I don't know why people are so obsessed with it being the worst line of dialogue ever written.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 1, 2017 22:06:39 GMT
Mass Effect 1 - 3 used a pretty well regarded Unreal 3 / 3.5 (and UE4 even now) plugin called FaceFx (made by a company called OC3 Entertainment or something if I recall). Unreal itself had no convenient semi-automated facial animations tools for a large number of faces, so this FaceFx plugin was extremely important for Bioware since it could do the bulk of the animation work and then animators simply had to go through it afterwards and make a few adjustments themselves. The software was / is remarkably effective (I tinker as an amateur animator in Maya and have used it) so long as you aren't aiming for hyper realism.. but it's good at getting smooth and believable mouth and face movements down. Unfortunately, MEA uses Frostbite and because it is a very closed system (EA only) and not open to mass market like UE3 / UE4, there are very few custom plugins / tools made or sold for it.. thus the developers are forced to either try to create their own tools (not easy when you're focused on making a game and don't want to shift resources on engine creation for a single toolset) or just clumsily brute force the animations by hand via human animators (this works fine in games that don't have hundreds of NPCs.. it's why the faces in a Battlefield game etc animate fine for the most part, they are all basically hand-animated since there aren't hundreds of characters in the story to be animated). This is part of the reason why facial animations in the original trilogy seldom have jarring moments.. while they aren't cutting edge, they seldom ever go awry enough to make you recoil from the screen for a moment.. they simply had proper tools to work with whereas frostbite doesn't. I strongly suspect that we would have had a somewhat more impressive game if Bioware wasn't forced to use Frostbite (EA will not allow their studios to use competing engines like UE4)... had they used UE4 they could have used something like the FaceFX plugin or others which would have reduced the workload and problems in regards to facial animation.. instead they had to use weaker or non existant tools and let outsourced animators try to make do with it. Frostbite can do alright with facial animations (DAI was ok for the most part), but from what I've heard it is drastically less efficient and more cumbersome to work with vs other engines and their plugins... Frostbite is just too damn proprietary, and you can blame EA for that. that raises a point, were the facials in Inquisition sculpted by hand?
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rpgmaster
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Post by rpgmaster on Apr 1, 2017 22:06:42 GMT
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