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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 2, 2017 6:06:25 GMT
So they outsourced and didn't check the quality of the outsource.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2017 6:10:44 GMT
I posted something about that hours ago, even wrote about it on the site I write for.
It is not unusual for EA in my own research on the topic, but the part in question now is who gave the ok for overly relying on the cyberscan.
Probably will hear more about it soon.
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Post by Realguile on Apr 2, 2017 6:15:18 GMT
So they outsourced and didn't check the quality of the outsource. Video says that bioware wanted to touch them up but were denied because of stupid shit. |
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 2, 2017 6:15:27 GMT
I posted something about that hours ago, even wrote about it on the site I write for. It is not unusual for EA in my own research on the topic, but the part in question now is who gave the ok for overly relying on the cyberscan. Probably will hear more about it soon. So the cyber scan mentioned is basically an automated process to check the faces? So people don't have to check each one individually? |
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 2, 2017 6:16:28 GMT
So they outsourced and didn't check the quality of the outsource. Video says that bioware wanted to touch them up but were denied because of stupid shit. I know. I remember him saying that. Just didn't feel like adding it in. |
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2017 6:21:19 GMT
I posted something about that hours ago, even wrote about it on the site I write for. It is not unusual for EA in my own research on the topic, but the part in question now is who gave the ok for overly relying on the cyberscan. Probably will hear more about it soon. So the cyber scan mentioned is basically an automated process to check the faces? So people don't have to check each one individually? In talking with Robertson and via the video, cyberscan stuff is basically scanning tech used to get hyper detailed models for things like a game. Problem is the scanning is not perfect, and you need 3d artists to sculpt it as well. Bioware, it seems, over relied on the tech and outsourced all scans for humans to other ea studios, bIrving they didn't need to be touched up too much. Another issue is that in house the higher ups didn't let them touch the facial animations apparently, which means a few things; people in bioware thought it was a problem, the higher ups believed it was a low priority, and someone in upper management, not bioware montreal, made that call. We probably won't know who in the end. |
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Post by bekkael on Apr 2, 2017 6:25:31 GMT
So the cyber scan mentioned is basically an automated process to check the faces? So people don't have to check each one individually? In talking with Robertson and via the video, cyberscan stuff is basically scanning tech used to get hyper detailed models for things like a game. Problem is the scanning is not perfect, and you need 3d artists to sculpt it as well. Bioware, it seems, over relied on the tech and outsourced all scans for humans to other ea studios, bIrving they didn't need to be touched up too much. Another issue is that in house the higher ups didn't let them touch the facial animations apparently, which means a few things; people in bioware thought it was a problem, the higher ups believed it was a low priority, and someone in upper management, not bioware montreal, made that call. We probably won't know who in the end. Likely many layers of management FUBAR which brought about the final product. Unfortunate. |
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 2, 2017 6:26:48 GMT
So the cyber scan mentioned is basically an automated process to check the faces? So people don't have to check each one individually? In talking with Robertson and via the video, cyberscan stuff is basically scanning tech used to get hyper detailed models for things like a game. Problem is the scanning is not perfect, and you need 3d artists to sculpt it as well. Bioware, it seems, over relied on the tech and outsourced all scans for humans to other ea studios, bIrving they didn't need to be touched up too much. Another issue is that in house the higher ups didn't let them touch the facial animations apparently, which means a few things; people in bioware thought it was a problem, the higher ups believed it was a low priority, and someone in upper management, not bioware montreal, made that call. We probably won't know who in the end. Ah, ok. That makes much more sense. Thanks for explaining the cyber scan part. I was wondering what it was. |
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2017 6:29:41 GMT
No problem.
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Post by shaqfu on Apr 2, 2017 6:32:20 GMT
Just ask wbgames how well outsourcing can work in your companies favor..They had to shut down sales of Arkham Knight for pc, and it didn't get fixed back up and resold for like 6 months or so.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2017 6:33:40 GMT
Just ask wbgames how well outsourcing can work in your companies favor..They had to shut down sales of Arkham Knight for pc, and it didn't get fixed back up and resold for like 6 months or so. Big difference though here is andromeda is actually playable. That, and EA outsources development a lot to their smaller teams. It's standard procedure for bigger products and their sports games. |
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Post by shaqfu on Apr 2, 2017 6:37:32 GMT
Just ask wbgames how well outsourcing can work in your companies favor..They had to shut down sales of Arkham Knight for pc, and it didn't get fixed back up and resold for like 6 months or so. Big difference though here is andromeda is actually playable. That, and EA outsources development a lot to their smaller teams. It's standard procedure for bigger products and their sports games. Indeed it is in a better state by far. But just shows that when you have your resources spread out in alot of different places things will tend to get a bit messy sometimes. |
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Post by dis_Op2399 on Apr 2, 2017 13:11:24 GMT
Interesting stuff. This makes a lot more sense for why there is such a discrepancy between the best and the worst animations in the game. Here is a solid explanation of 3d face scanning tech for games. There's nothing new about it. The difference, I guess, is that current gen graphics allow the photographic textures to be presented in the high-res "see every pore!" way. A good character artist could take that data and act like a make-up artist would to soften things for the camera. The fact that things like eyebrows aren't interchangeable also shows just how raw those human face textures are. Combine that level of hyper realism with eye textures that look like they've been drawn by a child and you've got a right old mess. The ideological rumors about female faces being intentionally less attractive would be the ultimate lazy virtue signal if true. Also if you're gonna outsource they could've easily found someone to knock out some decent hair models and textures. |
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Post by toomanyclouds on Apr 2, 2017 13:33:40 GMT
In talking with Robertson and via the video, cyberscan stuff is basically scanning tech used to get hyper detailed models for things like a game. Problem is the scanning is not perfect, and you need 3d artists to sculpt it as well. Bioware, it seems, over relied on the tech and outsourced all scans for humans to other ea studios, bIrving they didn't need to be touched up too much. Another issue is that in house the higher ups didn't let them touch the facial animations apparently, which means a few things; people in bioware thought it was a problem, the higher ups believed it was a low priority, and someone in upper management, not bioware montreal, made that call. We probably won't know who in the end. Likely many layers of management FUBAR which brought about the final product. Unfortunate. Yeah, after all the conspiracy theories I've heard about the facial animations, this one sentence is probably closest to the truth. Anyone who has ever worked in a big company with lots of inter-department interaction has probably been part of at least one or two projects that just were middling catastrophes at the end because communication didn't work out and people on all levels screwed up or didn't understand/were not told what they were supposed to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 13:35:18 GMT
Another issue is that in house the higher ups didn't let them touch the facial animations apparently, which means a few things; people in bioware thought it was a problem, the higher ups believed it was a low priority, and someone in upper management, not bioware montreal, made that call. We probably won't know who in the end. Upper management would be Flynn, right? He is the GM of Bioware. The thing he mentions in the video about focus on armour, envoirments and ships are completely right though, as those things look amazing in game. |
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2017 14:23:14 GMT
Another issue is that in house the higher ups didn't let them touch the facial animations apparently, which means a few things; people in bioware thought it was a problem, the higher ups believed it was a low priority, and someone in upper management, not bioware montreal, made that call. We probably won't know who in the end. Upper management would be Flynn, right? He is the GM of Bioware. The thing he mentions in the video about focus on armour, envoirments and ships are completely right though, as those things look amazing in game. Got to remember, we don't know who. It is easy to blame Flynn but hes not the only upper management person. You got Matt Bromberg, Yanick Roy, Samantha Ryan, maybe even someone else below them. There is a lot of people that could have signed off on this. And it was the opinions of the sources who stated that the armor/ships and the like were the major priorities, that is not a company-wide mandate but rather the opinion of an artist working there, likely because it was what they did in-house. |
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 2, 2017 14:25:38 GMT
Hi, we're EA Bucharest.
You might remember us from other breath taking RPGs and space faring and adventures like FIFA.....
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Post by goishen on Apr 2, 2017 14:43:47 GMT
Upper management would be Flynn, right? He is the GM of Bioware. The thing he mentions in the video about focus on armour, envoirments and ships are completely right though, as those things look amazing in game. Got to remember, we don't know who. It is easy to blame Flynn but hes not the only upper management person. You got Matt Bromberg, Yanick Roy, Samantha Ryan, maybe even someone else below them. There is a lot of people that could have signed off on this. And it was the opinions of the sources who stated that the armor/ships and the like were the major priorities, that is not a company-wide mandate but rather the opinion of an artist working there, likely because it was what they did in-house. The only question now is, who is gonna fall on their own sword? My bet is Flynn, but yeh. You're right. It could be anybody, if not all of them. |
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2017 14:45:50 GMT
Got to remember, we don't know who. It is easy to blame Flynn but hes not the only upper management person. You got Matt Bromberg, Yanick Roy, Samantha Ryan, maybe even someone else below them. There is a lot of people that could have signed off on this. And it was the opinions of the sources who stated that the armor/ships and the like were the major priorities, that is not a company-wide mandate but rather the opinion of an artist working there, likely because it was what they did in-house. The only question now is, who is gonna fall on their own sword? My bet is Flynn, but yeh. You're right. It could be anybody, if not all of them. I don't think it will be Flynn. If anything Flynn over at Edmonton will try to fix the situation. I would bet it's the middle management who gets canned for this. |
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Post by goishen on Apr 2, 2017 14:48:18 GMT
The only question now is, who is gonna fall on their own sword? My bet is Flynn, but yeh. You're right. It could be anybody, if not all of them. I don't think it will be Flynn. If anything Flynn over at Edmonton will try to fix the situation. I would bet it's the middle management who gets canned for this. Yeh, I guess that's true, too. Shit rolls downhill, even in Canada. I guess I thought Canadians were too nice, I s'pose. |
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Post by bizantura on Apr 2, 2017 14:56:44 GMT
I don't blame any division of EA on the low-end with normal working people, be it from Bucharest or anywhere else.
Who ever decided knows now for RPG's it is a bad call not having good facial animations.
The "political correctness" bit I very much believe and is a hot potato issue today. I would not want to be a writer for games in today's "liberal" world. High time those "feminists" in universities got replaced by real professors either female or male.
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Post by goishen on Apr 2, 2017 15:24:30 GMT
I don't blame any division of EA on the low-end with normal working people, be it from Bucharest or anywhere else. Who ever decided knows now for RPG's it is a bad call not having good facial animations. The "political correctness" bit I very much believe and is a hot potato issue today. I would not want to be a writer for games in today's "liberal" world. High time those "feminists" in universities got replaced by real professors either female or male. Oh I don't blame them either. After all, look at how well TW3 did it. Some incredibly smart and astute people in the world. Political correctness is great and all, it just stops when a company is not making any money and when it trips over its own dick. Ya know? And I'm not all that anti-feminist. Look at the asari thread, where I say that badass asari females founded the citadel, they were instrumental in founding the council, yet now BioWare is taking that away from them. Making them transgender simply waters down, at least IMHO, feminism. |
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Post by shechinah on Apr 2, 2017 15:36:44 GMT
Interesting... I thought it was just because the Archon had stolen almost all the facial animation in Heleus.  |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 15:41:33 GMT
I think the "cyberscan" is something they've done previously. I know they experimented with facial capture which shows in some scenes    Funny enough it all looks terrible and the Sara gun scene is not in the final game (or maybe it's just Sara's exclusive moment) and my guess is that BioWare planned to have more of these things. The staff for face-capture performancing is quite large in the credits so I can't believe it would take that many to only have the sparse 5-6 scenes in the game that seems to use this. This probably means they started lacking facial animations for other scenes and came up short with the algorithmic based animations. I sometimes have a hunch that they intended for all non-cinematic scenes to use the default algorithmic animation system and before DA:I got fan-backlash for the lack of cinematics (which they addressed in DLCs) I bet they also intended for Andromeda's planet areas to have exclusively non-cinematic stuff for quests, so the request to make proper animations for a much bigger number of scenes probably came really late and wasn't in the original plans for the game's production. As for the faces, yeah, they just screwed up. As he says in the video there was some very high-paid dude on the project who insisted the facial animations wouldn't matter. Probably Mac if I know him right. He just needed his paycheck and wanted the crunch cycle to stop so he could chill I guess. |
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