Lucky Punbot
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Post by Lucky Punbot on Apr 9, 2017 19:34:08 GMT
Warning: this post will contain spoilers for a major plot point in Mass Effect 1. If you have not played the game or do not want to be spoiled on one of the most infamous plot points from ME1 then I suggest you stop reading right now. This is your last warning.
Okay, still reading? Good. I shall continue.
I've seen a few people on reddit wanting to have a Virmire-like situation in MEA (that is, they want the option to have to choose between two squadmates to have to die in order to save the other). My first reaction? Irritation. This seems to merely be a wish for some people to try to get the developers to kill off characters than they, the player, doesn't like. It also sounded too cliche and repetitive to me; why recycle a successful plot point from a previous game into a light reboot of the series? Surely the writers can be a little more original than that. Then I got to thinking that if they were to mix up the formula a little bit it could actually result in a rather interesting and dramatic exchange.
Here's my thought: you have the choice to save either character X or character Y. You choose to save character X at the expense of character Y. However, events unfold in such a way that character X is the one that tragically dies and character Y manages to survive. This would result in not only you not getting what or who you had planned on, but you would also have to deal with the fallout from character Y knowing that you somehow deemed them "less important" than character X. ME1 had the Virmire survivor having to deal with survivor's guilt; MEA could have the survivor deal with the knowledge that their leader would have "chosen" they die instead of the victim. How you, the player, choose to advance the conversation afterwards would determine whether you lost either one squadmate (to death) or two (by the survivor choosing to leave).
What do you all think?
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Fogg
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Post by Fogg on Apr 9, 2017 20:36:23 GMT
People would just restart the mission from an old save to still save their favorite.
Perhaps the other one could get captured? Or marooned? Or become Queen of Blades or something?
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Lucky Punbot
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Post by Lucky Punbot on Apr 10, 2017 0:03:36 GMT
There's the interesting part, though: even if you restart the mission to save your fave, you're still going to have to justify 'leaving them behind.' If the writers really feel the need to have this sort of sadistic choice in the series again this is how I would like to see it play out because even if you meta game it to keep your preferred character alive there's nothing that says that they won't be a little upset at your having nearly left them to die in the first place. Let's not forget that it also has consequences for people who like to metagame it as well as those who prefer to roleplay their PC's actions entirely instead of doing what the player would do.
And what if it involves one (or more?) potential love interests (possibly simultaneous LIs)? Hehe. As I said, if people really want to have another one of these choices I would love for it to play out a little differently than it did in ME1; this sort of situation would be perfect. The people who want another Virmire would get it; the people who want your choices to actually matter would be indulged; and you could add more potential for the playable character to be a complete and utter douchebag, which is something that I've seen people actually asking for in MEA.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 0:37:32 GMT
Yes, and also please, make a certain character die when Ryder does not take a shot to save him.
BioWare is not going to trap players like that. it does nothing but encourages metagaming, and every minute lost to the replay will be counted against BioWare, save for three people who think it's nifty and gritty. Internet will explode.
People went asking about saving AI to make sure they did not get an undesired outcome. You burn people like that, they will be playing the whole game with a walk-through to make sure unintended stuff does not happen. That's going to spoil the game big time for a lot of folks.
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Doominike
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Post by Doominike on Apr 10, 2017 4:06:04 GMT
Ok but only if the choice is between liam and cora.
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Post by malanek on Apr 10, 2017 4:17:55 GMT
Firstly Virmire felt a little forced to me, I wouldn't try and replicate that. I also don't know about offering trick choice, consequences should be as logical as possible imo. I also don't think killing major characters, when there is a chance they could survive and play a full part, is generally a good use of resources. Having to code Ashley and Kaidan for the rest of the series is a lot of extra voice acting, art etc. So I don't really see many positives i this idea, but I have no problems with companions being killed off  |
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colloquialanachron
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Post by colloquialanachron on Apr 10, 2017 4:25:50 GMT
They've already recycled quite a few elements from ME1 in Andromeda. Off the top of my head - quirky Asari obsessed with ancient advanced tech/civilization, female crew member embarrassed/defensive about believing in some kind of divine, "outsider" alien working to understand your civilization's strange way (Tali vs. Jaal) etc (trying to avoid real spoilers til a later part of the post). I think having crew or squad members die should be a real possibility, but not in a manner like Virmire. More akin to ME2's handling of it with some improvements. I love the idea that if you put in enough work/time, you should be able to succeed and keep everyone safe. On that same note, I love the possibility that if you don't put in enough time, you risk losing someone or multiple crew members. I think the Virmire decision really worked for ME1 but shouldn't be repeated or made again with different clothes. What I loved about ME1 (amongst many other things) was the wonderful feeling that any choice could have long term implications. Slamming into a critical decision with immediate consequence not only jarred me as a player, it impressed me on a different level. I think something that fits with Andromeda's narrative of hope, reconciliation, and adaptation would be a terrific choice. Spoilers and theorising follow. One idea I think Bioware must be toying with is having one of your crew or squad members abducted and exalted. Perhaps which one is a consequence of whom you choose to bring with you on a mission, but it would seem most poignant to have it be the LI. Perhaps you can "save" them in a number of manners; reversing the effect, returning their attachment and memory, etc. Perhaps if you don't "do" enough, the most you can hope for is some form of final self-sacrifice.
This approach seems novel enough to me that the only limiting factor is time. If the series is going to be a bunch of one-offs, then this approach will likely fall flat - you can't develop the attachment, threaten it, resolve the threat and move on in the course of one game without rushing it. If the games maintain the crew, the abduction could happen fairly early in the next game or even the final DLC for Andromeda, you only find out the LI's fate late-mid game, and don't resolve it until either end game or early-mid next game. The elements that matter most to me here are cumulative choice and consequence: the impacted crew member needs to impacted BECAUSE of our choices, the resolution of that impact needs to be the result of choices following it, and while there might be some final "choose 1,2,3, or 4" the availability and viability of those choices needs to be a consequence of the actions and choices you made leading up to it. |
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 10, 2017 4:44:43 GMT
It didn't work the first time and I rather they not make the same mistake again, the only way it might work is if they completely remove the surviving character from the franchise as well. Even the Walking Dead games don't keep choice survivors around for long because they know the continued existence of those characters becomes problematic and Mass Effect 3 showed that as well for I felt that the majority of returning characters were only shells of their prior existence because they had to write two characters for every role and made them generic so it would work.
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Lucky Punbot
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Post by Lucky Punbot on Apr 10, 2017 5:48:15 GMT
Ok but only if the choice is between liam and cora. They did that choice from ME1; this time they'd have to shake it up so it wasn't boring and predictable. Kesh/Drack maybe? Kallo/Suvi? Vetra/Jaal? |
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Lucky Punbot
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Post by Lucky Punbot on Apr 10, 2017 5:48:58 GMT
It didn't work the first time and I rather they not make the same mistake again, the only way it might work is if they completely remove the surviving character from the franchise as well. Even the Walking Dead games don't keep choice survivors around for long because they know the continued existence of those characters becomes problematic and Mass Effect 3 showed that as well for I felt that the majority of returning characters were only shells of their prior existence because they had to write two characters for every role and made them generic so it would work. Completely in agreement with you here. |
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Post by Doominike on Apr 10, 2017 5:52:37 GMT
Ok but only if the choice is between liam and cora. They did that choice from ME1; this time they'd have to shake it up so it wasn't boring and predictable. Kesh/Drack maybe? Kallo/Suvi? Vetra/Jaal? The only problem I had with the Virmire choice is that you couldn't kill both of them. |
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Apr 10, 2017 6:55:11 GMT
Meh, forced binary decisions like that are lame as hell...
ie...
Save the Krogan or the Salarians...
Those choices never feel natural, they feel like some dev said "hey, we need a hard moral choice now".
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wildannie
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Post by wildannie on Apr 10, 2017 8:06:09 GMT
Sorry, I would really hate that. I don't mind if it is possible for characters to die, but being tricked like that would not be fun at all. I don't really have a problem with companions dying when it is one possible option. I also don't have a problem with there being a situation where there is no way to save everyone, but done better than at Virmire.
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