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Post by Zemgus on Apr 11, 2017 9:59:53 GMT
Listen, I understand the benefit of having a new protagonist every game and in no way am I against that. I just wish that after their 1 game is over it doesn't mean we can never play as them again.
I want another game with Hawke, I want another game with the Warden and I want another game with the Inquisitor - and yes I want new main characters too. Think of it as the Avengers: you have great solo movies for Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow (...one day...) and then you have them all come together and be a team. It's not just one Iron Man movie and after that he is totally done and disregarded, never to be see again. That would never work.
I loved Inquisitor and wasn't sorry at all when she replaced Hawke. I would like Inquisitor to return in the next game to stop Solas. She's the only one who can and should do it, after all. But I'm not against a new protagonist either - or even better, a dual-protagonist scenario.
And I would love to play Hawke again as well. I think that character still has a lot of potential, don't you? I know he could be dead, but... there's no real proof of that is there? Unlike with the Warden. I can accept that the Warden might never return, because they can be dead (though that could be resolved by also letting us play as the Orlesian Warden from DAA or a totally new Warden character - that'd be cool too!)
So what I'm trying to say here is that I don't necessarily want a Mass Effect approach for DA where every game has the same protagonist. Instead I would like them to bring back our old protagonist if it makes sense (like if the next game focuses solely on Solas or another one on the Wardens - then it would totally make sense to bring back Inky and The Warden, in my opinion) and if there's a good story to be told with that character. Why restrict yourself to not even consider this option when the current system (codex updates and Hawke's NPC cameo appearance) isn't exactly perfect either?
It's just uncomfortable to always get really attached to the player character (who I care more about than anything else in the games) only to 'know' that there seems to be some kind of rule that they can never return again - even when it makes sense.
Other idea I had was this: if you don't want to ever bring back these old protagonist for a full DA game, then what about something like the Last Court? (which by the way could take inspiration from Game of Thrones Ascent, another great on-going strategy-rpg). I would love to be able to continue our old main characters stories in some way at least and that could work really well. Tell these smaller stories in that formula and in that way still let us make decisions for our old characters in their 'afterlife.' Even being able to have some options in the DA Keep would be better than having no choice at all.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 11, 2017 11:56:20 GMT
Where is that Arishok gif when you need it? My answer is No.
I have nice memories of these characters, I don't need more than that. On top of that My Wardens are at 90% dead, my Hawke died too and my Inquisitor is missing an arm, making it very hard to swing a sword and hold a shield at the same time, or a bow, or a two-handed weapon or two daggers...
So unless it's an Evil Dead game with dead people coming back to life with the Inquisitor being Ash, I don't see how is make "any sense" to bring them back as playable characters.
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Post by mmoblitz on Apr 11, 2017 12:21:09 GMT
After DAI I don't want to see anyone from that game again except maybe Varric. Time for a completely new cast. DAI was the first Bioware game where I didn't care about my companions or my protagonist. Time for some completely new blood around.
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Post by isaidlunch on Apr 11, 2017 12:57:29 GMT
I'm sure the Inquisitor will appear but the other two are a lost cause. It's for the best, there are so many reasons why returning protagonists are a nightmare in a RPG.
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 11, 2017 13:30:52 GMT
This is a very slippery slope; it's one thing for external circumstances, whether good or bad, to remove a particular PC from the board. Quite another to force the desire to adventure forever on players who might prefer a different ending. Plus, since most players who want to continue playing a preferred PC also want to keep the same party and Love Interest, this forces their characters to remain static with no agency or life outside the protagonist. Not to mention all the reasons the writers would have to contrive for returning PCs without making their lives a pointless rehash. Also, having a returning protagonist rob us the chance to experience new lands and cultures through native eyes, and basically says no one else is allowed to be the hero. It's like saying since you already have Superman, you don't need to read Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 14:08:23 GMT
Hawke was originally intended to become like Shepard but that idea was shelved due to the negative response to DA2, and from that point we are getting new PCs every game and I think this trend will continue it has become rather iconic for DA at this point. But I think Inquisitor will still play a huge part in DA4. Plus Hawke and Warden could be dead from this point so it's highly unlikely
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 11, 2017 14:30:51 GMT
Dragon Age does have a returning main character. Its name is Thedas.
Personally, I think Thedas gets more character development when I can see it from different angles. Especially when we're headed to a region with so many interesting stories. Children of magisters, escaped slaves, escaped Qunari, Qunari agents, dwarves allied with Tevinter, agents of Fen'Harel, agents of the titans, Nevarran mortalitasi...
Out of all those possibilities, we'd want the Inquisitor instead? Plus, keeping the old PC means keeping their LIs in the picture (with some... eggceptions heh heh), which squeezes out even more room for companions from northern Thedas.
Now, I wouldn't mind seeing the Inquisitor. Or even working for them. And I'm going to play DA4 no matter what, so even if it's the Inquisitor I'll take it. But I'd greatly prefer to play a northern Thedosian.
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Post by Wulfram on Apr 11, 2017 15:14:40 GMT
I don't mind moving on to a new character if the old character's story comes to a satisfying end, the new story is reasonably independent of the previous one and it doesn't trample all over stuff that's important to the main character.
I haven't felt that Bioware has done particularly well at that in the past. In particular DAI was more or less "Stuff Our Previous PCs Should Have Handled: The Game". And Trespasser gave the Inquisitor a chunk of unfinished business with Solas.
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Post by Max Deltree on Apr 11, 2017 15:34:58 GMT
I like having main characters returning as NPCs, like it was the case with Hawke (Heck, I think Hawke-possessed by Corypheus should have been the main antagonist in Inquisition). But not using the same character again as the main one.
Each Dragon Age game was very different from the others, specially gameplay-wise. Using the same protagonist doesn't let them mix and match with the systems, and we end up being depowered or something.
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 11, 2017 15:51:26 GMT
I don't think it's necessary, i think Bioware has made a very compromising position with the ending of Inquisition. Cory didn't have a personal connection to Hawke, yet Hawke's sense of duty lead them to participate in trying to stop him. That worked. Other than releasing him, Hawke had little to do with him. They had a bigger connection to the mage/templar war, and i think the fact they weren't involved is one reason it seems like a sub-plot. The Inquisitor had little reason to care other than the fact they would die if nothing was done, and they had bad enough luck to get the anchor. I think, if Solas is going to have a big part in the next game and our goal is to stop him, Inquisitor should be the Protagonist again. Because we have a reason to and it makes no sense for an active hero to just sit back and retire for I-don't-have-a-clue-who-you-are-but-save-the-world. Origins to DA2 worked, because the Warden had done their thing. No more blightly McBlightface. So i'm happy to accept they are dead or off trying to save themselves from the corruption. The stories since have not required a Grey Warden.
So my personal opinion is New Characters are a great way to have new stories and lore to explore. But they keep carrying plot points and antagonists over, while making the Active Hero do "nothing". They are not needed, but if Bioware insist on new Heros, they should have new villains and stories too.
The biggest problem is people expect them to carry on with whatever they do. If they carried on with the Warden in all games, a new character would have been odd. If they repeat a character after always bringing a new one, it would be odd. And there would then be people who just expect that character, even if it doesn't match the story. I personally think, if it fits the story, do it. But don't do it just because it is expected.
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 11, 2017 16:08:30 GMT
I don't think it's necessary, i think Bioware has made a very compromising position with the ending of Inquisition. Cory didn't have a personal connection to Hawke, yet Hawke's sense of duty lead them to participate in trying to stop him. That worked. Other than releasing him, Hawke had little to do with him. They had a bigger connection to the mage/templar war, and i think the fact they weren't involved is one reason it seems like a sub-plot. The Inquisitor had little reason to care other than the fact they would die if nothing was done, and they had bad enough luck to get the anchor. I think, if Solas is going to have a big part in the next game and our goal is to stop him, Inquisitor should be the Protagonist again. Because we have a reason to and it makes no sense for an active hero to just sit back and retire for I-don't-have-a-clue-who-you-are-but-save-the-world. Origins to DA2 worked, because the Warden had done their thing. No more blightly McBlightface. So i'm happy to accept they are dead or off trying to save themselves from the corruption. The stories since have not required a Grey Warden. So my personal opinion is New Characters are a great way to have new stories and lore to explore. But they keep carrying plot points and antagonists over, while making the Active Hero do "nothing". They are not needed, but if Bioware insist on new Heros, they should have new villains and stories too. The biggest problem is people expect them to carry on with whatever they do. If they carried on with the Warden in all games, a new character would have been odd. If they repeat a character after always bringing a new one, it would be odd. And there would then be people who just expect that character, even if it doesn't match the story. I personally think, if it fits the story, do it. But don't do it just because it is expected. Considering that the Inquisitor is also going to be in the area, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up working for them in DA4. So there could still be that line of continuity, even with a new character. The Inquisitor would be working to stop Solas, and we'd be one of the agents doing the work on the ground.
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 11, 2017 16:15:29 GMT
I don't think it's necessary, i think Bioware has made a very compromising position with the ending of Inquisition. Cory didn't have a personal connection to Hawke, yet Hawke's sense of duty lead them to participate in trying to stop him. That worked. Other than releasing him, Hawke had little to do with him. They had a bigger connection to the mage/templar war, and i think the fact they weren't involved is one reason it seems like a sub-plot. The Inquisitor had little reason to care other than the fact they would die if nothing was done, and they had bad enough luck to get the anchor. I think, if Solas is going to have a big part in the next game and our goal is to stop him, Inquisitor should be the Protagonist again. Because we have a reason to and it makes no sense for an active hero to just sit back and retire for I-don't-have-a-clue-who-you-are-but-save-the-world. Origins to DA2 worked, because the Warden had done their thing. No more blightly McBlightface. So i'm happy to accept they are dead or off trying to save themselves from the corruption. The stories since have not required a Grey Warden. So my personal opinion is New Characters are a great way to have new stories and lore to explore. But they keep carrying plot points and antagonists over, while making the Active Hero do "nothing". They are not needed, but if Bioware insist on new Heros, they should have new villains and stories too. The biggest problem is people expect them to carry on with whatever they do. If they carried on with the Warden in all games, a new character would have been odd. If they repeat a character after always bringing a new one, it would be odd. And there would then be people who just expect that character, even if it doesn't match the story. I personally think, if it fits the story, do it. But don't do it just because it is expected. Considering that the Inquisitor is also going to be in the area, I wouldn't be surprised if we end up working for them in DA4. So there could still be that line of continuity, even with a new character. The Inquisitor would be working to stop Solas, and we'd be one of the agents doing the work on the ground. I personally think that's a worse idea than having the Inquisitor being PC or just having a new PC. Everyone hated being the grunt of the Inquisition, even when you became leader. Most people hated Hawke's out of character behaviour. Having your character suddenly become an NPC never really seems to work very well. I vastly preferred when we just moved on from the Warden because their story was over. Of course, what you said seems to me to be the most likely outcome. In which case, i will be disappointed. Mostly because these games work on an most-important-person-at--the-time basis, and i'd worry about how having 2 most-important-people-of-our-time will play out. It was different with Hawke, they were, at that time, a little man doing what they could off screen.
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Post by Marduk on Apr 11, 2017 16:39:52 GMT
If they want to do it then Dragon Age 4 would be a good point considering how Tresspasser ended. if not then they could still use him/her as a companion or a major character like a mentor. i am more interested to see some other characters though cause they were even better. Dorian has the highest chance of returning considering we are most likely going to Tevinter.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 11, 2017 17:04:21 GMT
Every once in a while I hear someone suggest dual protagonists, but I think having the Inquisitor as a playable character in the next game would be a narrative landmine.
You would have problems with Inky casting a long shadow over any newcomer - In one hand you have arguably the greatest living hero in all of Thedas, with wealth, influence and power (despite what happens with the Inquisition), and in the other you have... this other guy/gal. And for Inky to become a playable character again, you would somehow have to strip them of all that wealth, gear, levels, influence, etc. and have them start at zero all over again. Further, you would have to address the missing hand issue if you want them to have access to any class that required both hands. Not an insurmountable problem in a magic-based game (I've even suggested a enchanted prosthetic would certainly not be out of place in Thedas), but something that would still have to be addressed.
Better if they are kept busy dealing with issues in the south as an NPC (or temporarily taken off the playing field), or as a mentor/supporter role, and let the new protagonist a chance to breath and step into the spotlight in the north. I think it's important the Inky still has a presence in DA4, perhaps coming in at the final push and having their moment with Solas at the end.
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 11, 2017 17:13:15 GMT
Every once in a while I hear someone suggest dual protagonists, but I think having the Inquisitor as a playable character in the next game would be a narrative landmine. You would have problems with Inky casting a long shadow over any newcomer - In one hand you have arguably the greatest living hero in all of Thedas, with wealth, influence and power (despite what happens with the Inquisition), and in the other you have... this other guy/gal. And for Inky to become a playable character again, you would somehow have to strip them of all that wealth, gear, levels, influence, etc. and have them start at zero all over again. Further, you would have to address the missing hand issue if you want them to have access to any class that required both hands. Not an insurmountable problem in a magic-based game (I've even suggested a enchanted prosthetic would certainly not be out of place in Thedas), but something that would still have to be addressed. Better if they are kept busy dealing with issues in the south as an NPC (or temporarily taken off the playing field), or as a mentor/supporter role, and let the new protagonist a chance to breath and step into the spotlight in the north. I think it's important the Inky still has a presence in DA4, perhaps coming in at the final push and having their moment with Solas at the end. In my opinion, they Inquisitor was stripped of everything they had at the end of Trespasser. And if we move to Tevinter, they have less. Because they're either a nobody now, or the lackey of their Chantry rival. Their only Tevinter ally is a Pariah. The arm is not a big deal, really. Especially since Laidlaw (i think) said if he brings anyone back, he'd like it to be Dagna (although it's not a thing till it's a thing). She could make Inky one. And regardless of whether Inky is playable or not, the arm needs addressing if they're to be involved in any fighting. I can't see them being an advisor. Too much screen time too many things could go wrong with Inky NPC But as you said, with the Inquisitor and a new PC, it is going to be difficult. Even those who don't want Inky back want them to deal with Solas. And people want control over the Inquisitor's final moments with Solas. Regardless of what they do, a lot of people aren't going to like it. But it's a problem they wrote themselves into.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2017 17:21:19 GMT
Every once in a while I hear someone suggest dual protagonists, but I think having the Inquisitor as a playable character in the next game would be a narrative landmine. You would have problems with Inky casting a long shadow over any newcomer - In one hand you have arguably the greatest living hero in all of Thedas, with wealth, influence and power (despite what happens with the Inquisition), and in the other you have... this other guy/gal. And for Inky to become a playable character again, you would somehow have to strip them of all that wealth, gear, levels, influence, etc. and have them start at zero all over again. ...We sort of do. At the end of Trespasser. Not only the Anchor is taken care of, Inky "retires", while in reality their new Inner Circle plots going to Tevinter - a place they have barely any foothold, compared to the South and may even present less of value to powers in Tevinter considering that a.) they're considered to be part of Southern Chantry, b.). in Inquisition they've had chance to express multiple times that they're supporting change in Tevinter, which obviously those ruling it now will not like one bit. Besides - I think Trespasser does suggest very strongly that in one way or another Inquisitor will come back and future PC will be working for them ("then w'll find people he doesn't know"). If the (proper) epilogue is any indicator, Inky staying in the South is unlikely. I also don't see how a protagonist won't have a chance to breathe and step in - there are many stories where the protagonist starts as someone working under a person of great importance or fame and eventually given a chance to shine. I mean, the Inquisitor may be the one who will likely pull the strings/play "chess" with Solas or whoever, but if PC - for whatever reason - proves to be the one person which guarantees the success of the whole endeavor, then they'll ultimately be of supreme importance to the whole story. ... Of course assuming that things will go in that direction. I don't think that it's a coincidence that, on separate occasion, entirely unprompted, both Mike Laidlaw and Patrick Weekes have spoken about the scenario in which PC is able to betray the organization they're working for. Question remains who is going to betray whom and in what circumstances. IMO the story can go in so many directions (with dual-protag or not) that it's really hard to predict what is going to happen next - we only have a couple of hints. But those hints that we have suggest involvement of Inky AND the story moving North, to fairly uncharted territory.
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Post by talyn82 on Apr 11, 2017 17:29:57 GMT
95% of the time my Wardens choose the US, unless they're selfish or curious. I don't know about Hawke's fate since I haven't finished DA2 yet. But I can vaguely remember Hawke appeared in DAI, since at the time I didn't know much about them, I never listened to their plight in DAI.
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 11, 2017 17:33:53 GMT
I don't think that it's a coincidence that, on separate occasion, entirely unprompted, both Mike Laidlaw and Patrick Weekes have spoken about the scenario in which PC is able to betray the organization they're working for.Kind of off-topic, but I would love this. No matter if it's DA, ME or KOTOR. Hopefully if that sort of thing were to happen, it would be at somewhere like at the half point of the game and not at the very end.
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Post by tigerlily87 on Apr 11, 2017 17:53:47 GMT
The only ones I see returning are Sera, Dorian, and Harding. Maybe Josephine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 18:34:04 GMT
The only ones I see returning are Sera, Dorian, and Harding. Maybe Josephine. I'm almost 100% sure that Harding will be a companion in DA4
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2017 18:44:33 GMT
The only ones I see returning are Sera, Dorian, and Harding. Maybe Josephine. I'm almost 100% sure that Harding will be a companion in DA4 Not sure about companion, but surely someone who may be way more important to the plot than in Inquisition. She may be a companion - but she may as well be Inquisitor's proxy, together with Charter and Rector (who are all supposed groomed successors of Leliana).
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 11, 2017 18:50:05 GMT
I don't think that it's a coincidence that, on separate occasion, entirely unprompted, both Mike Laidlaw and Patrick Weekes have spoken about the scenario in which PC is able to betray the organization they're working for.Kind of off-topic, but I would love this. No matter if it's DA, ME or KOTOR. Hopefully if that sort of thing were to happen, it would be at somewhere like at the half point of the game and not at the very end. It genuinely could go in many directions and it'd be interesting if it indeed does. It could be something in the middle - switching sides in case out protagonist finds out something about who they work for that they won't accept. It may be at the very end, when the important decisions are made. And it may be at the beginning - a PC betrays their own organization and get themselves promptly recruited/saved by Inquisition. This possibility may score points with people who want DAO story elements back, because it suggests something akin to origin stories as well as characters stumbling upon the main plot like DAO PC's did, with Inquisition acting as intervening force, like Duncan.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 19:04:41 GMT
I'm almost 100% sure that Harding will be a companion in DA4 Not sure about companion, but surely someone who may be way more important to the plot than in Inquisition. She may be a companion - but she may as well be Inquisitor's proxy, together with Charter and Rector (who are all supposed groomed successors of Leliana). If she is not a romance option in DA4, I will go to Canada and set every Bioware studio on fire
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Post by smudjygirl on Apr 11, 2017 19:29:27 GMT
I would just like to add that even though the PC is a bit tricky to bring back, other characters can. That's a way of throwing back to previous games and i always feel happy when i see my pals from before and hear about how my other character is doing.
There is a problem with this, though, as it feels to me that they rely too heavily on the relationship you built with them before. Varric was obviously meant to be a good friend to Inquisitor, but you didn't get a chance to get to know him like you did with Hawke. But the characterisation from DA2 seemed like it was supposed to carry him along with Inquisitor's relationship. The exact same thing happened with Morrigan. I know she was meant to be a mysterious vixen, but it really felt like we were supposed to care about her. Which i did, but only because she is my Warden's love and he is Kieren's father. If i had not played Origins, i would not have cared about her one way or another. Cullen, however, is different as he was a minor character in the other 2 games so his characterisation and relationship with the Inquisitor needed fleshing out a little more, and it could never be inferior to previous PC.
So basically, if we are having new characters, i expect the previous ones to establish different relationships with them. Sometimes it feels like they address you as if you were their leader/friend/warden/hawke.
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 11, 2017 19:33:50 GMT
I don't think that it's a coincidence that, on separate occasion, entirely unprompted, both Mike Laidlaw and Patrick Weekes have spoken about the scenario in which PC is able to betray the organization they're working for.Kind of off-topic, but I would love this. No matter if it's DA, ME or KOTOR. Hopefully if that sort of thing were to happen, it would be at somewhere like at the half point of the game and not at the very end. I would love this too. It would be a great way to handle exotic backgrounds (Ben-Hassrath, AoFs, agents of the Titans, Venatori...) while giving all characters a compelling reason to do the same main questline. They'd have to "act normal" and do what they're told 90% of the time. After all, you wouldn't want to blow your cover! Imagine having a short Origins-lite sequence where you get your orders, and your goal is to quietly infiltrate and spy on the Inquisitor's operation. Most of the time, you'd be acting in the Inquisitor's interests (need to rise in the ranks and stay undercover), but for some select missions you'd have a chance to sabotage them. And part of your character's story would be deciding who you're ultimately loyal to - the Inquisition, or whatever faction sent you as a double agent? Plus it would be fun to be the lying party member for once. Acting all shifty and redirecting companions' attention (possibly badly). It's our turn to be the betrayer, right?
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